Getting Into Firearms


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D_Burchfield
September 27, 2005, 10:37 AM
Greetings All,

I came across this article while perusing Neal Boortz' web page. The writer is Professor Mike Adams. I may be mistaken but I think he teaches at Appalachian State University. I thought I would share it with fellow forum members to see what this august body thinks. It looks like a good start.

Best,

Doug

The perfesser sez:

Thanks for your following letter, Matt, which I received this afternoon:

Do you think at some point you could write a column on some of the basics of getting into the world of firearms? Specifically, I'm looking for tips on acquiring weapons for home defense and hunting. While I'm not a survivalist weirdo, I have no intention of waiting for any level of government to ride to the rescue, should bad times come along.

Since I have been hit with numerous requests (mostly post-Katrina) from people looking for that first firearm, I am pleased to respond with a column on the topic. Since you used the word “weapons” (plural) and spoke of “getting into the world of firearms” (again plural) I have a number of recommendations for you. And here they are:

Marlin .22 Magnum, Model 25 MN. We are going to start you off with an inexpensive gun you can easily pick up at WalMart. I bought my Model 25 five years ago for just $150, although they cost about $170 now. Take your new .22 magnum out to the country and fire a few shots at a paper plate taped on the side of a tree stump. Start out at 25 yards. When you get confident, you can put an inexpensive Simmons scope on it for those 50-yard raccoon shots. I have a big back yard and, for me, a part of home defense is getting rid of those raccoons that tear up everything in sight. Your varmint problems will soon be a thing of the past with this little bolt action rifle. It will also teach you patience and shot discipline better than a .22 semi-automatic. Remember, Matt, every shot counts so don’t waste ammo. In fact, make sure that you always buy more than you just shot after a day at the range. Some people call that stockpiling. I call it an investment in your future.

Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum, Model 686. I usually recommend a four-inch barrel but I want you to get a six-inch stainless model. This will help you in the realm of hunting and self-defense. For example, a 145-grain Winchester silver tip will stop that coyote you run into while deer hunting. It will also help stop any intruder (it will even stop his pit bull, for that matter). Keep this gun under your bed and loaded at all times.

Also, this is a great revolver for your wife (assuming you are married, which is another choice I recommend) to get used to shooting. Put some light 110-grain .38 Special rounds in it and see how she likes it. With a big six-inch barrel, it will be easy to handle with hardly any recoil.

Benelli Nova 12-gauge. I have a couple of Remington 870 pump shotguns. But, recently, I bought a 24-inch barrel Nova with Advantage Timber camouflage. I will use mine – a super magnum that takes 3 ˝-inch loads – to hunt a turkey this Thanksgiving. You can use yours for varmint hunting, quail hunting, and a number of other purposes with the right 2 3/4 –inch load. Some light buckshot will also make this a good home defense weapon, provided you are in an open space (the barrel is a little long for this particular function).

Stoeger Double-barreled 20-gauge Supreme Coach Gun. If you really want your wife to get into this (to make it a family affair), she needs her own shotgun. I recommend the nickel-plated version because it’s so darned pretty. Let her keep it under her side of the bed and, please, stay on her good side. For more details, see this link: http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/coach-supreme.tpl.

Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. A lot of people who saw what recently happened in New Orleans have concluded that every man needs an assault rifle. I came to that conclusion years ago. Go to WalMart and get this nice .223 semi-automatic for around $500 (I got mine when they were $375). Then get a scope (the rings are included with this model). I would also recommend several 30-round magazines by Thurmold. I have fired hundreds of rounds through mine without a single jam – even when firing as rapidly as possible. You might also want a flash suppressor, which will keep the muzzle low while you fire away. This is a fun gun that helps explain why I never picked up golf.

Browning A-bolt .270. And, of course, you will need a long-range bolt action rifle when you start bagging deer. My 30.06 Browning A-Bolt Medallion is probably my favorite weapon. Deer, black bear, and boar like it much less. I recommend the .270 to the novice because it has less recoil and will still get the job done. Winchester Power Point rounds (130-grain bullets) are very cheap and more than adequate. Mail me later for venison recipes.

Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull. I have no business recommending this gun to you, Matt. Nonetheless, buy it anyway. This gun takes Colt 45 rounds that are great for home defense. When, somewhere down the road, you feel like handling a very powerful handgun, this will provide some great entertainment with the .454 Casull rounds. Get the model with the 9 ˝-inch barrel and kill a wild boar. Then kill a black bear. Then put a scope on it (the scope rings are included) and kill a deer at 100 yards. After you are done with your assignments, call me and let me know whether I have given you good advice.

Thanks for writing, Matt. And welcome to my world.

Mmmmm.... .454 Casull

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bamawrx
September 27, 2005, 11:11 AM
Just add up how much money he is looking at there. That may be so much as to put off the prospective gun owner. I like the bolt .22 but I think a .22lr would do fine, the S&W .357 is ok but no CCW w/6" barrel, and the Browning A-Bolt is a great gun, but I think 7mm-08 would be a better caliber.

Lets also substitute the two shotguns for Remington 870s in 12 ga and 20 ga. Get a longer barrel for the 12 ga for hunting and a short barrel for home defense. Need a camo shotgun? Well how about a $5 can of Krylon spray paint in OD green..Done. Forget the 454 and .357 and purchase a 1911 in .45, which is a good bed gun and good for CCW. For the lady a S&W lightweight .38 or my wifes choice of a Glock 17 or 19. Glocks are cheap, 9mm is cheap, and they work. You can't beat the price of the winchester 100 rd party pack at walmart!

For the fighting rifle I would have gone with the AR-15, but if cost is the main consideration then I would cut corners on the A-Bolt and purchase a Remington 700 in .308 to save $$.

Now lets ask the guy to get some good training for handgun, shotgun, and rifle, get his CCW, and we're off.

I think everyone needs a handgun, shotgun, scoped rifle, and high cap fighting rifle. And based on recent events you would be wise to stash some backups somewhere. Some would add an anti-material target rifle to that list, but most can't afford the .50bmg. The 50 would be great for boats, small aircraft, trucks, hard targets, etc.. Hey they can't rob you from 1,000 yards away and nothing will keep bad guys at bay like a 50. Its on my "to buy" list.

Thoughts?

Dionysusigma
September 27, 2005, 11:11 AM
I'd have to modify his suggestions a bit.

1) Marlin 925. .22lr is MUCH cheaper than .22 mag.

2) Good choice. Maybe a 1911, though.

3) Remington 870, with an 18.5" barrel for HD and a 24" 3 1/2 barrel for hunting.

4) Kahr M1 Carbine. They're low-recoiling, powerful enough, and... well, cute.

5) AK/ AR/ AR-180B/ SU-16C/ whatever... just NOT a Mini.

6) Remington 700. Same caliber, or maybe .308 due to ammo costs.

7) Smith and Wesson .460. Or, a complete set of barrels/ magazines for a Desert Eagle. :D

Edit: BamaWRX, I wrote mine while you posted yours... I guess great minds more or less think alike! :)

Darth Ruger
September 27, 2005, 01:20 PM
Instead of making the beginner feel like he has to take out a second mortgage on the house to prepare for a two-week guided hunt in Alaska, how about simply buying a .22LR pistol or rifle, getting some training from a certified instructor, and spending some time at the range working on shooting fudamentals?

Sounds to me like the 'Professor' doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and he shouldn't be giving advice to beginners. His stupid little quips like "Kill a wild boar, then kill a black bear" make it pretty clear that he's never done either and he just bought that gun because some doofus at the local range told him what he should get when he asked about buying a revolver. I get the impression he spends his money money on whatever gun strikes his fancy at the moment without taking the time research it or the caliber or the application first, and probably has an expensive safe full of guns he'll never use for their intended purpose.

After you are done with your assignments, call me and let me know whether I have given you good advice.
And if he hasn't? Is the Professor willing to reimburse the beginner after he's emptied his savings account to buy all these 'beginner' guns and finds he isn't happy with them?

And I'd be interested in watching someone new to guns pick up a .454 Casull and take a deer at 100 yards.

Yeah, great overall advice for the beginner...

hso
September 27, 2005, 02:12 PM
"Take your new .22 magnum out to the country and fire a few shots at a paper plate taped on the side of a tree stump." No mention of makeing sure of the area behind the stump? No discussion of the 4 rules? What's he thinking?!?

"Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum, Model 686. ...Keep this gun under your bed and loaded at all times." Not secured, not where the dust bunnies won't get into it, not out of reach of any potential kiddies just "under your bead and loaded".

"Benelli Nova 12-gauge...light buckshot will also make this a good home defense weapon, provided you are in an open space (the barrel is a little long for this particular function)." A little long? I'd guess so considering you can't work a hallway or much of anywhere in the house with one. With all the interechangable barrel pump guns in the world he gives this advice?

"Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. ... I would also recommend several 30-round magazines by Thurmold." I wouldn't bet my butt on any mag that wasn't specifically made for the Mini-14 regardless of how cheap they were. A $400 AK just flat works as do the mags. For the price of the $500 Ruger you could have an AK and a dozen good mags and the ammo is $90/1,000 delivered to your door compared to $180/1,000.

"Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull. I have no business recommending this gun to you, Matt." He sure got that right.

What a dolt.

Gannet
September 27, 2005, 02:38 PM
A gun is just a tool. Recommending any tool. let alone a laundry list of them, without a specific job in mind strikes me as senseless.

Why the recommendation to go out to the country and just start winging away? Most folks don't live where that is very feasible. How about recommending trying to find a local range, and some instruction? How about recommending going to the NRA website for starters, and seeing where the local ranges are, and when the next beginner classes are going to be held?

Once the user has some familiarity with the tool, then they can reasonably start to think about which are suitable for their particular task. Until then, it's just "well, I think I should have a gun", or, essentially, "gun as magic talisman". Dumb, dangerous, and a waste of money.

I agree with the characterization as "dolt".

mnrivrat
September 27, 2005, 02:50 PM
Sorry - hit the wrong button and posted twice . Ignore this one

mnrivrat
September 27, 2005, 02:51 PM
Well - You know what they say about opinions . They are like _______, everybody's got one.

As far as the "column" ,and it's terminoligy, and recommendations , I am not impressed .

In fact - I am left shaking my head ! :scrutiny:

lotus
September 27, 2005, 09:14 PM
With all due respect to 'the perfesser' I just don't agree with many of his general recommendations to initial gun ownership.

I would recommend:

Marlin .22 Magnum >>> CZ 452 Special .22LR

Learn all the basics with a rifle that offers much in the way of accuracy, cheap ammo and awesome iron sights for learning the basics. Can eventually be scoped, but if you go that route I would recommend keeping the CZ as is and picking up a 10/22 to scope.

Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum, Model 686 >>> OK.

But stick with the 4" barrel. Not for CCW, though, but very fine for home defense. Possibly the finest .357 in production.

Benelli Nova 12-gauge >>> Remington 870

The Benelli is a fine gun but 870s are classics that leave nothing to the Nova and belong in any collection. Easy to convert barrels and tubes from fowling pieces to riot guns, too.

Stoeger Double-barreled 20-gauge Supreme Coach Gun >>> Huh?

The last gun I'd start my woman on would be a shotgun. If she's not into shooting get a small, simple pistol like a J-frame or Makarov that is reletively idiot-proof she can use for last ditch defense.

Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle >>> Ohio Rapid Fire AK-47

Man, someone would have to be your worst enemy to recommend a Mini-14! The AK is the only rifle of its' type to be documented defending against looters. Who can argue with that! Besides ammo and mags are cheap and they can handle the fumbling ministrations of a first time gun owner just catching the 'disease'.

Browning A-bolt .270 >>> Remington 700 LTR .308

The A-bolt is okay but the LTR is a fine, light weight tack driver that does everything you ask of it.

Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull >>> !!!

I thought he was trying to get people INTO shooting here, not cause them to form irreversible flinches right out of the gate! If you have to, get a Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun before you look at something like this!

Kurush
September 27, 2005, 09:35 PM
Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. A lot of people who saw what recently happened in New Orleans have concluded that every man needs an assault rifle. I came to that conclusion years ago. Go to WalMart and get this nice .223 semi-automatic for around $500 (I got mine when they were $375).Wow only 375, that's barely three times more than an SKS that's more reliable, holds twice as many rounds, and doesn't have an aluminum foil barrel. I have no idea who this guy is but safe to say he isn't a professor of gun recommendations :rolleyes:

GunGoBoom
September 27, 2005, 09:51 PM
Marlin .22 Magnum

>>> Make that a Marlin 25 in .22 long rifle instead of .22 WMR. Or a CZ 452 Scout in .22 lr.

Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum, Model 686

>>> I'd make that a Taurus Tracker in .45 acp, un-ported 4" bbl. But not a bad recommendation.

Benelli Nova 12-gauge

>>> Not a bad choice at all, but I'd stick with Remington 870, Mossy 500, or Win 1300.

Stoeger Double-barreled 20-gauge Supreme Coach Gun

>>> Hmm, nah, make than an NEF or Rossi single shot .410

Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle

>>> No dice - make that a Kalashnikov clone in 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm NATO. Or an SKS.

Browning A-bolt .270

>>> Not a bad choice atall either. But I'd make that a Savage 10/11/12, 110/111/112 or Rem 700 in .270, .308, or .30-06. Or CZ 550 or Howa/Vanguard in one of those calibers or in 6.5x55 swede. With Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10x40mm. Burris or Leupold turn-ins.

Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull

>>> NO! Not for a beginner. Perhaps Ruger RH or SRH/Taurus RB/S&W N-frame in 44 magnum, with a long 8-10" bbl. *IF* you have large hands. But not a .454 Cuz in most parts of the country, even the .454 lite (.45 colt) is hard to find in stores, where newbs will be buying from, and NOT really a good home defense selection, due to overpenetration concerns and cylinder gap blast. .44 special and .44 mag are easy to find OTOH.

aluminum foil barrel :evil:

MachIVshooter
September 28, 2005, 12:05 AM
Whenever I'm asked what a well-rounded beginning collection should consist of, I answer as follows;

- semi-auto .22 pistol
- 3" or 4" .357
- 9mm DA auto
- .45 SA auto
- .22 Rifle, bolt or auto
- .223 cal. autoloading rifle of decent quality (mini-14 OK) :neener:
- 12 gauge pump or auto
- Scoped bolt rifle in .270, .280, 7mm-08, .308, .30-06,etc.

Generally speaking, there's not much that can't be done with some variation of each listed. Of course, when folks get serious they buy a 10mm :D

mnrivrat
September 28, 2005, 02:35 AM
OK - Back again on this one. I'm not sure who wrote the recommendations listed in the first post the professor, Matt , or ?

My re-action sort of went down the line like this :

1.) Why a .22 mag. and not a .22 RF ? I can't see the magnum being a practiacal choice in lew of the standard .22 cartridge

2.) Had no problem with the S&W 686 just not sure why the person would normaly recommend a 4 inch barrel and then tell a newbe to get a 6 inch. Particularly if the weapon would be used for self defense where both husband and wife would/could use it ?

3.) At his point with a specific recommendation of a Benelli I start to think that particular brands are not nearly as important as the concept of what to use a shotgun for and what constitutes a practical shotgun for the person getting started.

4.)When the side by side recommendation came here I just had to shake my head - it just doesn't belong in the conversation - period.

5.) Here is another case where the particular brand of gun is not as important as the possible needs and uses of a rifle specificaly geared toward self protection rather than hunting. It raises my blood pressure when anyone who knows anything about this type of weapon calls them "Assualt Rifles". By nature no gun is and "assualt" gun - only living things can assault other things. At best the term is being horribly overused.

6.) A- Bolt in .270 Other than that being only one of at least a dozen good choices it would be OK accept again , a discription of what would make a good hunting rifle and a few examples would have been more appropriate in my opinion.

7.) The .454 ??? I think I'll refer to # 4 on this one.

So - there is the detail of my opinion for whatever it is worth.

Andrew Rothman
September 28, 2005, 02:53 AM
Mike Adams is a great guy and a great writer. He's "a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington" and wrote a book about being a conservative professor in the liberal world of the college campus ("Welcome to the Ivory Tower of Babel: Confessions of a Conservative College Professor").

Read a few of his columns here: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/archive.shtml

Or check out his web site here: http://www.dradams.org/

You'll see that he actually is a hunter and a prolific shooter.

Ya gotta understand that his writing is a little bit tongue-in-cheek, and that he grew up liberal.

Converts are the worst zealots, you know.

Give this writer a chance. His columns will alternately delight and outrage you.

D_Burchfield
September 28, 2005, 10:50 AM
Thanks Andrew,
I couldn't remember where the Prof. taught. I've been reading Mike Adams' columns for a while and just ordered his book.
While I agree with most of the folks posting here that he could have chosen many firearms to get someone started, I thought it would get a few ideas on different approaches. I think the man knows his guns and possibly owns most of the ones he recommended. As you said I think it was tongue-in-cheek also because he loves to dig at liberals. The article was on Townhall.com so I don't think he had the space to go into the precursors i.e. training, safety, etc.

By the way, I own a scoped Mini-14(older model) and my "aluminum foil" barrel works just fine, thank you :neener:

Thanks all for your posts as it may help some beginners with initial choices.

Regards,

Doug

USSR
September 28, 2005, 11:03 AM
My take on it is like this: Anytime someone like a professor, coming from a traditionally liberal vocation, recommends the acquisition of firearms, it is indeed a welcome happenstance. As for his particular recommendations, as with anyones, take them with a grain of salt.

Don

beaucoup ammo
September 28, 2005, 12:18 PM
Thanks for turning me on to the Good Doctor Mike..I'll spend today finishing up his articles (archieves)!

As the Prof. mentioned, I too started my wife out on a .357 (S&W model 65 - 3) and she loves it!

We are both aquainting ourselves with the first 9mm semi-auto ever to grace Rancho Relaxo. A KAHR P9. World of difference after a life time of revolvers...but great for concealment and I see more SA's in our future!

Take Care

Gunpacker
September 28, 2005, 12:20 PM
Original question asked was what would be good for hunting and home defense. Now while I like the way MachIVShooter thinks, I would pare down his suggestions to respond to the original intent.
- semi-auto .22 pistol (Not necessary)
- 3" or 4" .357----|
- 9mm DA auto---|--(Choose one and get good with it)
- .45 SA auto----|
- .22 Rifle, bolt or auto (Good choice)
- .223 cal. autoloading rifle of decent quality (mini-14 OK) (Like it but not nec.)
- 12 gauge pump or auto (Good choice-get changeable choke)
- Scoped bolt rifle in .270, .280, 7mm-08, .308, .30-06,etc. (Good choice)
I only mention this because the cost can be cut by more than half by simply looking to the questioner's needs.

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