[yucapote]

:uhoh: We give them food and money and they give us drugs.


[URL=http://www.talkleft.com/archives/002774.html]


Afghan Farmers Growing More Opium
Here's another consequence of the war on terror and deposing the Taliban regime: Opium production is way up in Afghanistan, including in some districts in which the crop has never before been cultivated.



What's changed?

The production of opium, from which heroin is refined, was wiped out under the hard-line Taliban regime, but farmers began planting it again when the religious militia was deposed in 2001 during the U.S.-led war on terror. Some farmers ripped up their wheat fields to plant the lucrative drug-producing plant, which brings in hundreds of times the revenue....

The U.N. drug agency said opium yields had soared to 3,750 tons in 2002, making Afghanistan the world's No. 1 producer again, a record it had held prior to the eradication of poppies by the Taliban in 2001.

The new Afghan President, Hamid Karzai, last year offered to pay $500 for every acre that the farmes destroy. But there were few takers, with an acre of an opium crop bringing $6,400.00. And this year, the new Government discontinued the cash incentive plan due to lack of resources.

A special report on opium growing in Afganistan finds there are 11 opium-processing laboratories in Badakhshan and that much of the opium was being smuggled over the border into nearby Tajikistan. One farmer interviewed said poppy is his only means of survival:

"Now at least we have a few roads, some electricity and some good teachers in schools, and all of this is the barakat [blessing] of the poppy," the angry peasant said, pointing out that no teacher or doctor would walk for hours or even days to a district for almost no salary, and knowing that he could not return for four to five months when it snows and roads were blocked.

"They [government] comes by helicopter to destroy poppy, but not to bring us medicine, evaluate our needs and tackle our problems," he complained, mentioning that even though almost every family had a gun, they would welcome any fair and just decision by the government. "The people love Karzai," he said, hoping that the government would ultimately approach the issue in a positive and sustainable manner.

[Marko Kloos]

The only reason they plant it is because it's very profitable.

The only reason it's very profitable is because it's illegal.

If most Western nations had an alcohol prohibition, these guys would be growing potatoes to use in distilling vodka. Afghan farmers growing poppies is not the cause of drug use, it's the result of drug prohibition.

[Tamara]

Who started the "War On The Fourth Amen... er, Drugs"? Was it Nixon?

Anyhow, wouldn't the article title be more accurate if it said "Afghan Farmers Growing More Opium Thanks to Nixon"? :confused:

[Master Blaster]

Nah its all because Clinton wanted his joint copped.

:uhoh:

1919 the controlled substances act made Heroin a schedule III ?narcotic drug and illegal, same year they made Cocaine, and Marijuana, and ALCOHOL illegal.

[Blackhawk]

True, Tamara, but if you look at the URL's name "TalkLeft", what should should be expected since Nixon is already villainized and dead? :D

BTW, the URL is http://www.talkleft.com/archives/002774.html just in case any masochists want to click through to it.

[Mike Irwin]

MMMMmmmmm Opilicious...

[Felonious Monk]

...and the negative of this is.... :confused: :rolleyes: :D

[grampster]

yucapote,
Ya got that backward. They are growing more bush because of opium.:neener:

[SoDFW Jason]

Just because they are growing it doesn't mean you have to buy any.

[MitchSchaft]

Well, hell. We shouldn't have killed the Taliban then! :scrutiny:

[Ebbtide]

Where does it mention Bush?

Better than growing terrorist.

[ahadams]

NAPALM! The defoliant that solves many problems simultaneously...should do wonders to eliminate recidivism among the perps too :neener:

[Marko Kloos]

Something is out of whack with a society when people seriously advocate dumping burning gasoline jelly on fields and farmers, because their government has deemed the crop evil.

These days, the average child molester gets six years, and the average pot grower gets ten. This country is locking people away for a decade of their lives because they were growing the botanical equivalent of a bottle of vodka in their backyards...and the majority of the population doesn't see anything wrong with that.

[ahadams]

lendringser - not because the government has deemed the crop evil, because the historical effects of the drugs produced from the crop are inherently evil. Nope, I'm not even open to debate on this one...oh and we don't have to dump it on the farmers, just the fields...the reference to recidivism had to do with the fact that repeatedly having one's fields burned to ash over the space of a year or more is going to lead to one's either starving or moving somewhere else or growing something else. OTOH, were they to take shots at the aircraft doing the dropping the rules would change dramatically, immediately, and *not* to the farmers' favor.

[Felonious Monk]

This country is locking people away for a decade of their lives because they were growing the botanical equivalent of a bottle of vodka in their backyards...and the majority of the population doesn't see anything wrong with that.Well I do! :fire:
This is the most serious place where I part company with mainstream conservativism. Many of the senior officials who are veterans of the WOsD (War On some Drugs) freely admit what a failure it has been, what a tiny percentage of the flow is stopped. As a result, otherwise peaceful 'crispy critters' are herded off to be incarcerated (as Lendringser so eloquently pointed out) for LONGER than violent criminals!

How in the CRAP did we get to this? It's insane. And don't get me started on those blatant lies and propaganda they show on network TV: "That joint you're smoking is responsible for Juan Valdez' family being gunned down in Tegucigalpa."
Never mind that it was grown in a hydroponic basement growroom in a suburb of Topeka. :scrutiny:

FWIW, dad is about as "anti" drug as a guy can get... I'll just say he retired at "an administrative level" of an Alphabet Agency...HE even thinks it's a TOTAL waste of taxpayer money to incarcerate so many nonviolent criminals.
Rant off.

[Sir Galahad]

Heap o' doins over a flower...

[DeltaElite]

Sounds like the Afghan economy is on an upswing. :D
Good for them, we restored free enterprise to their land. :D

[Don Gwinn]

This is a little bit OT, but the thread reminded me. . . . about three weeks ago a drunk driver was sentenced in Sangamon County, Illinois. This guy tanked himself to twice the legal limit and had an "accident" in the city, hitting another driver and killing him. Both men were 21 years old. The dead guy had two kids and a wife.

The judge gave this man six months in the county jail and another year of probation.
For killing a man through stupidity and recklessness!

If only he'd been smoking pot when it happened, or high on speed--then we could have put him away. But a drunk guy killing people with a car? Let's not overreact here. I'm sure he's sorry.
He'd have gotten years in state prison if he'd so much as had one hit of speed or a bag of pot in the car--even if he hadn't driven recklessly or harmed anyone. When it's a bigger crime to possess a chemical than it is to kill people, your society needs to be rebooted.

:banghead:

[Sindawe]

I concur with Monk, this whole War on Some Drugs just pisses me off to no end, and I've have some vigourus debates with my Convertive Republican & Liberal Democrat friends over the topic. IMHO its just plain pigheaded foolishness to continue to invade peoples home in the dark of night, shoot them and put any survivors away in prison for a long time over some freaking chemicals. If an individual wants to turn their minds to mush and live in a chemical induced haze, its their buisness, not yours and not mine.

Don: As for the fool who got wasted and killed another fellow then only got 6 months, that just plain bites. He should be financially responsable for the family of the man he killed, responsable for the rest of his life.

ahadams: OK, we'll not debate about the historical evil effects of drugs, how about the evil effects of EtOH (grain alcohol) and tobacco in our culture?

As for the Afgani's now growing poppies to harvest the opium from the seed pods, more power to 'em. There's a demand for the product and they are willing to supply that demand. Its called free enterprise, and the only ones injured by the product are the consumers. The other ill effects from the manufacture and transport are the result of the prohibition.

[GinSlinger]

Nixon's plans were to decriminalise drug use and to treat it as a social rather than legal problem. Now what was the name of that book...good read about how Nixon's impeachment proceddings and subsequent resignation caused the failure of some of the very programs that his "in-the-street" detractors would have whole heartedly supported. Off to look through the pile of books in the attic....

GinSlinger

[publius]

Who started the "War On The Fourth Amen... er, Drugs"? Was it Nixon?



A little before his time (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm), actually. And it's not just a war on the 4th, it's a war on property rights (http://www.fear.org/hadaway.html), which are more important to some of us than privacy rights. Policing for profit (http://www.fear.org/chicago.html) is bad, bad mojo.

Not surprising that there are unintended consequences in Afghanistan. It won't matter. Leftists are blind to the unintended consequences of welfare, just as prohibitionists are blind to the unintended consequences of their favorite boondoggle.

[stellarpod]

The production of opium, from which heroin is refined, was wiped out under the hard-line Taliban regime, but farmers began planting it again when the religious militia was deposed in 2001 during the U.S.-led war on terror....

Just for the record, as I recall, the Taliban did NOT "wipe out" the production of opium. It just turned a hypocritical blind eye to the operation while skimming profits for their cause.

And frankly, I would question the credibility of ANY U.N. report on anything.

stellarpod

[Bahadur]

Just for the record, as I recall, the Taliban did NOT "wipe out" the production of opium. It just turned a hypocritical blind eye to the operation while skimming profits for their cause.Absolutely right. The Taliban monopolized opium production. If it curtailed the production, the action was for its economic benefit, not for any Islamic altruism against mind-altering substance.

[Russ]

Have most of the fat slob doughnut eating employees of DEA and most other LE agencies figured out where we are going to get legitimate pain killers from if all Opium production is eliminated?

Opium is Gods gift to mankind. Any pain killer worth snot contains it, and for good reason, it works. From Codeine to Vicodin to Morphine.

I think the brains behind the "War on Drugs" (Congress) should be forced to go without pain killers if they develop cancer. I hate it when these self rightious idiots pretend to know more than Physicians and try to restrict their (Dr's.) abilities to treat patients.

The Taliban did not stop production. They used the proceeds for repression and violence.

Frankly, Heroin was developed to be a non-addictive pain killer. It didn't live up to expectations obviously. However, when you are terminal, who cares if you get addicted? My mother had terminal cancer (less than 6 months to live) and they told her she was going to get morphine at some point. She was worried about becoming addicted because of all the BS misinformation out there. Why not have given her Heroin? It would have worked better and who cares if you get addicted if you are going to die.

[KMKeller]

I'm with Don Gwinn. There is neither rhyme nor reason in jurisprudence.

[Felonious Monk]

Russ-- LMAO! You Go, Boy!Opium is Gods gift to mankind. Any pain killer worth snot contains it, and for good reason, it works. From Codeine to Vicodin to Morphine. ...and don't forget Oxycodone! :D

From www.opioids.com , a wealth of unbiased information:

"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution-then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise."
ALDOUS HUXLEY
1894 - 1963

[kidao35]

And the alternative to wiping out the Taliban was?

Apologize profusely to Osama Bin Laden, pull out of the Middle East, pull out all support of Israel, and capitulate to the next bunch of lunatics with plane tickets, boxcutters, and an agenda?

Sounds like not enough body bags are coming back from Baghdad to Dover AFB for the author's tastes.

The left is really grasping for straws this week, that's for sure.:neener:

[Justin]

NAPALM! The defoliant that solves many problems simultaneously...should do wonders to eliminate recidivism among the perps too Use all the napalm you want, it won't help. There is obviously a demand for opiates, and as long as said demand is extant there will be people willing to fill it.

In essence you're trying to use napalm to stop the effect of the free market.

You may as well try to use napalm to suspend the law of gravity for all the good it'll do you.

If the War On Drugs is the cure, I think we have a serious case of the cure being far worse than the disease. Because of the WOD, the fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments to the Constitution that so many neocons claim to hold dear have been essentially wiped out.

Because of the WOD, many legitimate prescription drugs are far more expensive than they should be.

I find it highly amusing that so many leftists think that a ban on guns will result in an end to crime, and so many rightists believe that a ban on drugs will result in an end to crime.
You'll excuse me if I chortle at the inherent hypocrisy.

[DeltaElite]

Have most of the fat slob doughnut eating employees of DEA and most other LE agencies figured out where we are going to get legitimate pain killers from if all Opium production is eliminated?

Well as a member of the fat slob doughnut eating po-po, mmmmmmmmmmm doughnuts, pain killers would be obtained like they are now, through legal means silly.
Our medication companies would only obtain opiates through legal means, at least that is what they claim. ;)

The WoD is a farce and a failure. A huge change in societies attitude will be needed to end it. There is too much money involved for it to end any time soon.

FWIW, I like Vicodin, I really like Vicodin, but I don't take it anymore.

[mercedesrules]

You don't know how pleased and relieved I am to see this kind of open-mindedness on this subject on a board like this one. Kudos!

And, people that are "not even open to debate" on the subject should go argue 9mm vs. .45 somewhere :)

MR

[DeltaElite]

45acp and Vicodin are better than 9mm and Tylenol 3. :D

[pax]

DeltaElite,

:D I'm sitting here snortling at your post. Thanks.

Personally, I hate Vicodin. Stuff gives me nightmares. Codeine is good though. And what about 10mm?

pax

There will not be any violations to speak of. -- Supervising Revenue Agent Colonel Daniel Porter, 16 January 1920, as the US Congress passes the 18th Amendment to the Constitution, prohibiting the sale of alcoholic beverages.

[DeltaElite]

10mm goes with the most powerful of all. Morphine. :D

Tylenol 3 made me very anxious, Vicodin made me very happy.
I didn't care that I was in pain anymore, the euphoric effect from Vicodin effects me greatly.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Vicodin. :D

[Bahadur]

Y'all do too much painkillers.

[DeltaElite]

Actually, I don't get enough, make that any.
I have been clean for over 18 months, not that I ever got that many, but I was given enough to be a problem.
I am truly glad they are gone from my life.

[Russ]

DeltaElite,

I have rethought. While I was attacking the enforcers, and I know alot of them who need some shapeing up, I should have attacked the morons in Congress and State Legislatures who have saddled the populace with such inane laws.

Vicodin is good but Oxycontin is so much better!

My point is, if you need such items, you should have them without some untrained person telling your Physician he can't prescribe those things. My cousin was an Orthopaedic Surgeon and he said he got hassled alot from the DEA and other LE agencies, let's call them the Gestapo because that is what they have become. He was an excellent Doctor and gave those drugs to those who truly needed them. He resented the fact that the Gestapo was constantly looking over his shoulder.

If you don't need these drugs then you should not take them. My question is who is to decide? I think Physicians decide and not the Gestapo and their war on drugs. Ah, but there is alot of money in the war on drugs and that is why the government and their agents pursue it. More and more tax dollars to fight a losing war.

[Roadrunner]

You needn't worry about the elimination of opium production. The few U.S. pharmaceutical companies that import the stuff hate using bulk opium. It comes from India, usually wrapped in newspaper filled with all sorts of particulates and related plant material. In its raw state, opium is a dirty product to use.

Most, if not all, the DEA licensed importers (there are only a couple) would rather use Concentrate of Poppy Straw ("CPS") or Thebaine to produce opiate-based narcotic medication. Both these forms are toxic to humans if you try to ingest them in their raw form.

By way of international treaties, the United States is required to purchase 80% of its narcotic raw materials (opium and/or CPS) from India and Turkey. The remaining 20% may be purchased from Australia, France, Poland, Hungary, and Yugoslavia.

Therefore, the U.S. licensed companies that import opium couldn't buy any Afgani opium if they wanted to do so. Most, if not all, Afgani opium will end up in the illicit drug trade as illegal herion and morphine.

[mercedesrules]

Russ said:I think Physicians decide
I am careful not to suggest that only government-licensed experts should handle certain products.

MR

[Russ]

mercedesrules,

Are you saying that anyone should be able to get what they want over the counter? To be honest, I think that would be the way to go. Currently, if it's between government licensed persons, I would rather that Physicians had the say rather than the politicians.

As I understand it there were no anti drug laws before 1914 and I haven't heard about drug addicts running wild. It seems to me, if someone is going to abuse the stuff, they are going to do it anyway, legal or not. That being the case, I think they should legalize all drugs. I think there would be a drastic reduction in crime of all kinds and the resources saved could be used to help addicts that want to get off.

The war on drugs has failed and it's time we tried something else.

[mercedesrules]

(Russ) Are you saying that anyone should be able to get what they want over the counter?
That's what I'm sayin'! :)
To be honest, I think that would be the way to go.
Honesty is good!

As I understand it there were no anti drug laws before 1914 and I haven't heard about drug addicts running wild. It seems to me, if someone is going to abuse the stuff, they are going to do it anyway, legal or not. That being the case, I think they should legalize all drugs. I think there would be a drastic reduction in crime of all kinds and the resources saved could be used to help addicts that want to get off.

The war on drugs has failed and it's time we tried something else.
I'm with you! The only thing I would do differently is that I would give any saved resources back to the taxpayer. After all, he didn't force the addict to start taking drugs. Drug users can pay for their own treatment - after deciding if they want it.

MR