Recoil 32HR vs. 38 SPL?


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Bob79
September 27, 2005, 02:38 PM
I sold my 342PD because the recoil was just too much for me to become a decent shot with it. I used to have a 642 that I now regret selling, so I'm in the market for another revolver from S&W in the "Airweight" class.

I am considering a 431/432 possibly and was curious about the recoil out of this gun. I know that recoil is a somewhat subjective thing to judge but, I need opinions, preferring to hear from those who have shot both. And when I say both I mean, an Airweight with .38's and the S&W .32 HR mag.

And yes I understand the .32HR is slightly less in performance than the .38 and more espensive as well, but you get 6 instead, and if the recoil is less thats another positive. Again I may just go with the .38 for simplicity of ammo.

Thanks.

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ChristopherG
September 27, 2005, 04:42 PM
I've shot both, though the 432 only once. My recollection is that it was quite tame by comparison to a 38+p. It was another guy's gun and ammo, though, and I don't know what load I was shooting exactly. Something factory.

nero45acp
September 27, 2005, 06:31 PM
I have a S&W 432PD and a 640 (sorry no .38 special Airweight). I've found that the felt recoil of Federal's Hi-Shok 85gr JHP out of my 432PD (Airweight) is comparable to shooting standard pressure .38 specials out of my (all steel) 640. Which is to say, the recoil of the Federal ammo thru the 432PD is quite managable.

The biggest drawback to the 432PD that I've come across is availability and COST of practice ammunition.

Hope this helps.



nero

280PLUS
September 27, 2005, 07:18 PM
I find the .32 H&R (I have a 332, precursor to the 432) in mine to be a little snappier than the .38 Spec. The right round out of my snubbie will outperform .38 Spec, at least on paper. I do know it will knock down the steel targets that a .380 could not. If you go to www.georgia-arms.com they have a round there that is much better than what federal has to offer. It's a 100 gr SJHP that left my 1 7/8" barrel at 977 fps. That translates to better than .38 spec and only slightly less than .38+p. I opted for it after firing the 340 PD with some hot .357. I'll never do THAT again :eek: I did like the extra shot you get with the .32 as well and that is what sold me on it. It is small and light enough that I carry it unholstered in my strongside front pocket. Baggy jeans.

I recently shot a S&W 500 Mag with some hot stuff in it and found its's recoil to be less painful than that lightweight .357.

The GA round is also a bit cheaper (even with shipping) than federal's hy shoks.

Oh, GA advertises the round at 1100 fps. That is out of a 7" barrel FYI, I called and asked.

P. Plainsman
September 27, 2005, 08:43 PM
The right round out of my snubbie will outperform .38 Spec, at least on paper. I do know it will knock down the steel targets that a .380 could not. If you go to www.georgia-arms.com they have a round there that is much better than what federal has to offer. It's a 100 gr SJHP that left my 1 7/8" barrel at 977 fps.
That's good for a handy little pocket sixgun. It clearly bests the .380 ACP for energy, even though most .380s are larger and heavier weapons than the 332 or 432PD.

Thanks, 280PLUS. I'm a fan of the Georgia Arms .32 H&R Mag hollowpoints and have been looking for chrono data on them. Based on your number, I reckon they're good for 1000 fps out of the 3 1/16" barrel of my Ruger SP101. Recoil of the "hot" .32 H&R Mag load in my 28 oz gun is, naturally, a cream puff.

gunfan
September 27, 2005, 08:47 PM
and I can't see how ANYONE could percieve the recoil of a .32 H&R Magnum, in a S&W "J" frame revolver to be "snappy." It makes little, or no, sense!

I'm telling you right now that the .32 S&W Long, in its stoutest loadings, is a PUP! The only thing that would make a .32 H&R Magnum revolver's recoil "nasty" would be a poorly designed grip! The "J" frame is more than adequate to tame the "Minimum Magnum's" recoil, even in a Scandium frame.

Freedom Arms has it's CA 2000, a double-action, eight ounce, stainless steel revolver chambered for the .32 H&R Magnum! What, in the name of all that's holy, would lead you to believe that the "J" frame cant "tame" this "raging powerhouse?" :neener: :confused:

Get a grip and buy the darned thing! You can shoot .32 S&W's, .32 S&W Longs and .32 H&R Magnum cartridges through the thing! It is a very versatile cartridge... far more versatile that you could guess!

Get over your fear and enjoy the inherent accuracy of the .32 cartridges. They can be a real gas, if you give them half a chance!

Scott

P. Plainsman
September 27, 2005, 08:53 PM
Agree -- if you're really worried about recoil in your little Smith, you might start with the Fed or Black Hills 85 gr JHP .32 Mag rounds and then move up to the hotter Georgia Arms stuff.

Black Hills 90 gr FPL cowboy ammo is your factory practice load. Or .32 S&W Long, if you can find 'em cheaper.

Some say the Longs gunk up the little cylinder chambers fast. Dunno; so far I've only shot .32 Mags in my gun.

gunfan
September 27, 2005, 09:01 PM
the .32 S&W Long has put many a miscreant in the ground! Ask any septugenerian NYC Police Matron! They carried either the "I" frame S&W Model 31 .32 Regulation Police or the Colt Police Positive, chambered in .32 Colt New Police (read:.32 S&W Long.) A pair of double taps from these revolvers, usually "settled their hash" in a heartbeat!

Don't bull$#!t yourself... the darned things worked!

Scott

280PLUS
September 27, 2005, 09:14 PM
and I can't see how ANYONE could percieve the recoil of a .32 H&R Magnum, in a S&W "J" frame revolver to be "snappy." It makes little, or no, sense! Steel yes, a cream puff but aluminum? I actually didn't notice much difference between the federals and the GA until I went BACK to the federals. They seemed milder then. Anyhoo, I'm not trying to give the impression that the.32 H&R in the lightweight has a "nasty" recoil. I just think it's noticably snappier than the .38 lightweights I've shot. I think the .38 lieghtweights are not bad at all, I just liked the extra shot. I've shot .32 S&W longs out of mine but had trouble with the chambers fouling so I couldn't get the longer magnum rounds back in after a session. I stick with the .32 mags now. Besides I think the GA is cheaper than those too. One thing about the ammo, it is pricey.

I have had people who try it raise their eyebrows a little saying things like "WOW!!" the general consensus is nobody wants to get shot with it.

There are those that won't shoot it after the first time too. But they are lieghtweights of a different kind... :D

gunfan
September 27, 2005, 09:27 PM
The "Minimum Magnums" require a thoroughly judicious cleaning after shooting .32 S&W's or .32 S&W Longs! Simply take care of the little buggers as you would any centerfire revolver! That's why they make stainless steel chamber brushes! Problem solved! :rolleyes: :D

Scott

280PLUS
September 27, 2005, 11:19 PM
Yup, I just had to learn the hard way... :rolleyes:

:D

gunfan
September 28, 2005, 01:17 AM
Yup, I just had to learn the hard way...

Dear 280 PLUS: I am the son of a Pearl Harbor Survivor and Navy Rifle Team member. There was no insult intended.

Please forgive me,

Scott

280PLUS
September 28, 2005, 06:19 AM
The Navy has a rifle team?

Absolutely no insult was taken!! I truly DID have to learn about .32 long vs .32 mag length fouling the "hard way" when I couldn't reload my .32 mag rounds after shootin' off some .32 longs. It was quite the surprise. My little rolleyes smily was for learning the hard way not your comments.

How IS the Navy BTW. Has it recovered from my stint yet? :evil:

I had an uncle who spent 36 months in New Guinea incidentally. Seems we have a few things in common...

:D

mfree
September 28, 2005, 09:02 AM
I've shot a 432PD and IIRC a 342, an early titanium S&W 38+p. Well, that's a misnomer, I *own* a 432PD, but anyways...

Even GA Arms 100gr hot stuff in the 432 is decent. The recoil is "smacky"... it stings, stings bad sometimes if I'm not careful with the grip. But the gun doesn't move a whole lot.

With the 342 and a pack of 148gr wadcutters, the gun didn't smack or sting, but it sure shoved itself out of the way.

EDIT: See picture for evidence of fast energy disposition :)
http://posterboard.tv/20050627/3.jpeg

That was with the federal 85gr JHP.

gunfan
September 28, 2005, 12:21 PM
I have been out of the service since 1975. My father was the Navy rifle team member.

During WWII, Dad killed a Japanese soldier with a 5-shot, folding-trigger, Italian-manufactured revolver, chambered in .32 S&W Long. Granted, he did so at two paces catching the sniper by surprise while checking his "kill". Dad planted five .32 S&W Long wadcutters in the man's chest, killing him instantly.

Don't ever let anyone hand you that bullsauce about those "ineffective" smallbore handguns! Properly placed, the .32 S&W Long works very well, and the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge works even better! :D I wouldn't want to be on the "business" end of one! :uhoh: :eek:

Scott

P. Plainsman
September 28, 2005, 12:55 PM
There's a somewhat interesting profile in the new American Handgunner of the carry guns preferred by each of the mag's regular writers. (Executive summary: Mostly 1911s, some Glocks, lots of snubby revolvers as BUGs).

Charlie Petty, whose down-to-earth writing I like better than most, had a surprising rig. He totes a pocket S&W J-frame snubby in .32 H&R Mag, loaded with the Federal 90 gr semi-wadcutter target load. Petty said he knew this was no powerhouse, but it was so soft-recoiling, even in the small, light gun, that he could place all six rounds in a tight group as fast as he could pull the trigger, and he figured that would do the job.

Not saying he's right. If I'm carrying a .32, I'd want to use the GA hollowpoints. Just an interesting approach to the .32 Mag from a shooter who certainly has seen a lot of guns come and go.

71Commander
September 28, 2005, 01:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/32-l.jpg

280PLUS
September 28, 2005, 04:41 PM
:D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29372

Bob79
September 29, 2005, 01:07 PM
Well it seems I received some differing opinions on this one.

First though, the 431/432 twins are 13.5 ozs each and made of aluminum alloy and carbon steel. I'm 90% sure they are 1.5 ozs lighter than the "airweight" 642/442 twins because the 32HR gun's barrel is an insert into alumunium alloy shroud, vs. the .38 which is all stainless/carbon steel.

I understand that the 32HR out of a all stainless gun is going to have almost zero recoil (like a .38 non +P).

I got rid of my 342, which was only 11 ozs because of the recoil being just too much for me to get good with it. I'm not saying it wasn't controllable, it was just a little too much. And it seemed even with standard pressure .38's it was bad, the load that actually was the most comfortable for me in it was the Speer Gold Dot 125 grain +P (NOT the 135gr new short barrell stuff).

So yes this gun is 2.5 ozs heavier, which is what I want, but I'm unfamilar with how .32 HR mag recoils which is why I'm posting this thread. I have shot a 642 with +P ammo, and that had what I'd call acceptable recoil for me, so if the 431/432 guns with 32HR are about the same as +P with a 642 then I'm good to go.

I like the 431 because its black, and only costs about $325 without shipping, and I know I can get a 642 for about the same, but I prefer the 442. And a good price on 442's (new) seems to be about $400. Plus you get a 6th round, and if the performance is similar then I'm good to go. Also it does have some cool factor because of the unique caliber, and GA ammo is only about $13 for a box of 50, which isn't cheap, but its not that bad either.

So does anyone else have info/opinions for me on comparing recoil??

71Commander
September 29, 2005, 01:22 PM
Mine is 10ozs. (From post 17 above)

Bob79
September 29, 2005, 02:16 PM
TennTrucker-

I don't know then buddy...S&W website says it weighs 13.4 ozs.

Are you sure its 10 ozs? What method did you use to figure it was 10 ozs?

Thanks.

280PLUS
September 29, 2005, 02:33 PM
My postal scale says my 332 wieghs 12.25 oz unloaded and 14.5 oz loaded. I do know the 431 432 is supposed to be ~ 1.5 oz heavier than 331/332 as the 331/332 has a titanium cylinder while the 431/432 has a steel cylinder. That is the biggest difference in the models. the 332/332 was about $650 and the 431/432 is a lot less which is what motivated S&W to make the change. The recoils CAN sting as someone else has said but is quite manageable. I can shoot mine quite a while with no ill effects to my hand(s).

P. Plainsman
September 29, 2005, 05:33 PM
The 332 is a cool gun. I think I'd prefer the slightly greater weight of the 432PD, much as I prefer the 15 oz Airweight 642 to S&W's lighter titanium and scandium .38s.

A really light pocket .32 Mag (432PD), instead of a really really light pocket .32 Mag (332).

71Commander
September 29, 2005, 06:02 PM
You're right Bob. Don't know where I got the 10oz. from.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/brownbag.gif

280PLUS
September 29, 2005, 06:38 PM
What I like is when you shoot it in low light it makes the SWEETEST little ball of fire you've ever seen...

:D

280PLUS
September 30, 2005, 08:11 AM
With the 342 and a pack of 148gr wadcutters, the gun didn't smack or sting, but it sure shoved itself out of the way. I didn't see this line first time through, that is absolutely correct IMO. The .32 H&R is snappy while the .38 is more of a less harsh "boom" and the gun does move more. It gets a little snappier with the .357s :evil:

nero45acp
September 30, 2005, 05:09 PM
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but can anyone tell me how well S&W's 432PD will hold up to shooting the hotter Georgia Arms cartridge? In other words, is the GA ammo "hot" enough to damage the 432PD? Thanks.


nero

gunfan
September 30, 2005, 05:30 PM
The .32 H&R Magnum cartridge is no more intense than a .38 S&W Special +P. The gas erosion factors should be about the same with both of these cartridges.

For entertainment purposes, (read: informal target practice, small game hunting, pest routing, etc.) you would be more than amply served by a nice spicy .32 S&W Long load in the revolver, or a light load in the .32 H&R Magnum case. (This is recommended only if you do not vigorously clean the revolver's chambers with a .32 caliber stainless steel brush.)

The .32 S&W Long is a delightful cartridge in ANY revolver in which it can be fired. Supremely accurate, and more fun than the proverbial "barrel of monkeys" the .32 Long is NOT a "magnum" cartridge, so it tends to get lost in the dust of its siblings.

Take it from me, it can be a real small-game getter, "pest eliminator" and all-around general purpose target-round and "plinker." It was employed, quite successfully I might add, as a police matron's cartridge in the NYC department for more than 50 years. It was seen in the .32 S&W Hand Ejector, Colt's Police Positive, Colts Detective Special, Colt's Pocket Positive, S&W's Regulation Police and many other brands (H&R, Iver Johnson, Hopkins Allen, and more.)

Don't sell the little .32 short. It has stood the test of time for well over 100 years. The .32 H&R Magnum was simply a logical outgrowth of "the world's most accurate revolver cartridge." Ask any target shooter from the 1950's they'll tell you!

Scott

Bob79
October 2, 2005, 01:27 PM
Well I did it. I shipped out payment yesterday for a 432PD. I also called Natchez SS and ordered some of each of Federal's 85gr and 95gr 32 H&R mag ammo.

I'm going to call Georgia Arms on Monday, does anyone here know if they take an order over the phone with payment by credit card? Or do you have to mail everything in? And yes I did read how they need your DL and a signed statment saying there is no law prohibiting you from owning the ammo.

Finally, like someone else asked, I'm assuming its just fine to shoot GA 100 grain stuff through the gun? The gun is pretty much the same set up mechanically and material wise (I think) as the ones that are labeled to shoot .38+P, and they can stand up to 158 gr +P ammo then it should hold up to 100 grain 32 H&R mag right?

Also, is Federal and Georgia Arms the only game in town for factory loaded ammo? (I'm not into reloading).

nero45acp
October 2, 2005, 05:58 PM
Black Hills makes a .32 H&R Magnum 85gr JHP.


Bob79, when you get the chance please post how much difference in the felt recoil you experience from the Georgia Arms 100gr JHP cartridge -vs- Federal's 85gr JHP. Thanks, and congratulations.


nero

280PLUS
October 2, 2005, 06:27 PM
I'm going to call Georgia Arms on Monday, does anyone here know if they take an order over the phone with payment by credit card? Or do you have to mail everything in? I believe IIRC you can fax the DL and letter over then they will take CC orders over the phone.
Bob79, when you get the chance please post how much difference in the felt recoil you experience from the Georgia Arms 100gr JHP cartridge -vs- Federal's 85gr JHP. Thanks, and congratulations. While I'm not Bob I can tell you I didn't notice much difference between the two until I went BACK to the Federals. Then they felt a little milder. I shot about 50 of the GA yesterday and suffered no soreness or ill effects from the experience.

nero45acp
October 2, 2005, 09:04 PM
Thanks 280PLUS, I've been meaning to pick up some of the GA cartridges.




nero

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