[TexasRifleman]

I've always had a thing for the Walker revolver, but I have no experience at all in black powder shooting.

My main question is pretty simple I think for you guys that shoot regularly.

Is there any way to shoot a BP revolver without getting black goopy grease all over yourself and everything around you?

Are there cleaner alternatives?

[Stickjockey]

But that's part of the fun!

Actually, try WonderWads.

[TexasRifleman]

Thanks!

Now, I know this is borderline heresy, and you'll probably all want to stone me, but have any of you tried the cylinder conversions?

A few places are selling a cylinder conversion for the Uberti and other revolvers to shoot a .45 Long Colt Cowboy (low pressure) round.

Anyone tried one of these?

Also, these confuse me from a legal standpoint. If I can mail order an Uberti revolver, and mail order a cylinder conversion for it, and mail order .45LC ammo...... uhhhh.....

[Cap n Ball]

Yeah, go figure. You can legally have and shoot a Gatling gun because its not a 'fully automatic' weapon. Just shows how crazy some gun laws are.

[Beartracker]

They have the converson cylinders for my 1858 Remington also but I would never buy one. It seems that many people are jumping on the band wagon and if that's the rout you want to go that's fine.They are way to much for me when you ad the price of the gun to the cylinder price. I like to load mine the way it was ment to be, If I want a BP cartidge gun I'll buy the Colt style one that Cabelas sells and save a whole lot of money in the process.Mike

[TexasRifleman]

Beartracker. I agree with you as long as I can shoot the thing now and then without getting black Crisco all over me :D

I think I will give it a try with the Wonder Wads.

[TexasRifleman]

One more thing if you don't mind.

Where do you get loading data for the different guns and powder/bullet types?

I don't see any kind of reloading manual as I would see for centerfire cartridges.

I know these are naive questions, I'm a bare beginner.

Thanks for your patience.

[Smokin_Gun]

Just make sure your caps stay on...if they go on real easy just pinch them a lil give them a slight squeeze. 90% of chain fires come from the caps falling off...you don't want any chambers going off out of battery.

[Beartracker]

TSM, Someone said that Lyman has a powder guide on line that you can download. It's really a book . You will probably get more info about the best loads to try just by asking on sites like this one.Lots of black powder books you can buy out there.
I think some of these guys lived through the Civil war and just came back to shoot there gun's again and have fun with us, Lol! Now everyone will think I'm nuts! That's alright, I don't care :what: :neener: Mike

[TexasRifleman]

Thanks Beartracker.

I bought an Uberti/Cimarron Walker revolver.

The load I have seen mentioned is 22gr of FFFg with a .454 ball.

I have a can of Goex Pinnacle that I'm going to use simply because someone gave it to me.

I assume FFFg is the proper size and burn rate for a pistol like this?

Does that load sound reasonable? It seems light to me because the Walker powder flask throws around 27gr.

[Father Knows Best]

I bought an Uberti/Cimarron Walker revolver.

The load I have seen mentioned is 22gr of FFFg with a .454 ball.

I have a can of Goex Pinnacle that I'm going to use simply because someone gave it to me.

I assume FFFg is the proper size and burn rate for a pistol like this?

Does that load sound reasonable? It seems light to me because the Walker powder flask throws around 27gr.

That is indeed a very light load. The original Walker load was 60 grains of black powder. It was the most powerful repeating handgun in the world until the 44 magnum came along over a century later.

I don't have a Walker, myself, but I know several people who do. They typically load .451 balls, but there is enough variation from gun to gun that you may prefer .454 in yours. A typical Walker load for the guy I shoot with most is 35 grains of FFg with a Wonder Wad and a .451 ball, and he considers that a "light load" for his Walker. Remember that these are 4+ pound guns with quite light projectiles. They can handle a lot of powder.

Also, while you can use either FFFg or FFg in .44/.45 caliber guns, the general rule is that FFg is preferred for .40 caliber and up. I load a lot of .44 cartridges with black powder, and I use FFg.

[TexasRifleman]

Thanks Father, that's what I was thinking, but I've seen a couple of manufacturers recommend the light load. Maybe their product is weak and they are afraid somehow....

I'll start with 30gr and work up from there.

I have a can of FFFg that was given to me so I'll try to use that up then switch.

I was also given some .454 balls. If I understand it right, I can still use them, I'll just be shaving a lot of lead off with the loading lever and will see less accurate fire since the balls are no longer nice and round is that correct?

Or does the slightly larger size increase the pressure enough that it might be dangerous?

Thanks for all the help from you folks, I know I'm asking some basic questions.

[Father Knows Best]

I'll start with 30gr and work up from there.

I have a can of FFFg that was given to me so I'll try to use that up then switch.

I was also given some .454 balls. If I understand it right, I can still use them, I'll just be shaving a lot of lead off with the loading lever and will see less accurate fire since the balls are no longer nice and round is that correct?

Or does the slightly larger size increase the pressure enough that it might be dangerous?

1. If the manufacturer recommends a lighter load, then I would start at whatever the manufacturer recommends. Increase loads only in small amounts and only as experience dictates.

2. It is even more important to limit your loads if you are using FFFg. FFFg is finer than FFg, meaning it will burn faster and create higher pressures.

3. Use the ball size recommended by the manufacturer. You want it tight enough that it doesn't drop out when the gun is tilted down, and tight enough to prevent chainfires. Some guns will tolerate larger balls, and some won't. You may find it difficult to fully seat an oversize ball, and it is dangerous to leave an air space under the ball.

[TexasRifleman]

Woo Hoo!

UPS came early :)

It's here and man is it huge! I know why Sam Colt said "only a Texan could shoot one". :evil:

The manual recommends 22-30gr and a .454 ball.

I'll let you all know how this all works out!

[TexasRifleman]

Well, it went BOOM with 24gr of FFFg.

I don't have any wads so I just loaded one cylinder at a time.

The groups were pretty crummy but I'm sure some playing with loads will be in order.

I loaded it up with Bore Butter and shot about 20 rounds through, cleaned up pretty well I was happy to see.

So I'm officially a Black Powder enthusiast. Very enjoyable, I should have tried this years ago.....

Thanks for all the help folks, I'll be asking more I'm sure.
I'll take a couple of photos later tonight and post......

[Beartracker]

Hold on folks! Not trying to start any arguments here but the fact is that the ffg is really for .50 and above. fffg is for your smaller caliber rifle's and handguns. Some guy's do use the ffg in there Remingtons but that doesn't mean that the black powder manufatures recommend it. 30 g. of ffg with a 454 ball works best for me for target shooting and the 35 g fffg works best on large and small critters . If no lead shaves off the ball is to small.If it loads to hard the ball is to big.
Remove the cylinder from your .44 rem and stand the gun barrel up, take a .451 ball and place it on top of the barrel then give it a good smack with the flat side of a 2x4 just to start it down the bore. Now take a 10"-3/8 wood doll rod and a hammer and gently tap the ball all the way through the barrel until it drops out the bottom. Now measure the lands( Widest side of the bullet) and see what you get. This will tell you the true size of your bore.You want to be a few thousands over whatever it is for best accuracy. Thats why you have a forcing cone on the breeh side (The end by the cylinder chamber) It's also a good idea to measure your cylinder chambers and see how they are for size compared to your swaged ball and barrel to match.

60g. of ffg in the big daddy Walker can be used but I would suggest the trying fffg also and see what gives you the shot you want and the most accurate. stick with in 30-40 g. range and see how it does.Take your time working up loads no matter what black powder gun you have. That's all part of the fun even though some see it as a job and won't take the time.
Try it with a wad and grease on top of the ball. Then try it with a wad and no grease over the ball, try it with no wad but grease over the ball useing some typ of filler if needed. Clean your gun cylinder very well between each load and keep the shots at less than 10 yards. The whole idea here is to see what load groups the best. When shooting from a bench rest at that distance you should be able to lay a quarter over a 6 shot hole......Most of the time, ;) If it were me I would not go over 60g. and going under 30g. with the Walker is not much fun, :D

This is just my suggestions from things I have learned over the years but there are guy's on here who know a whole lot than I will ever know maybe
will jump in with some ideas for you guy's also. Mike

[TexasRifleman]

Photo of my meager starting point, basically enough to make the thing shoot. I hope to spend lots of time next week working things out once my box from Dixie gets here with more goodies. I didn't even have grease or wads today, so I was only looking for BOOM.

Thank you all again for all the information, this is really like starting over in a way, learning all this stuff. Lots of fun!

http://homepage.mac.com/jayc67/walker.jpg

[NewShooter]

OK, so which is better for a 1858 REM Revolver? FFg OR FFFg
The owners manual says FFFg. But FFg is more available for me locally.
And if I use FFg, should I increase or decrease my load?

[Beartracker]

Don't go over 35g with either one and you should be fine. I shoot 30g of fffg for target and 35 of fffg for carrying in woods and I see very little difference in accuracy at logical distances.
You really need to work up a load for your own gun trying both powders and starting at about 20 g and useing different combos of wad, and lub over ball, no wad but a filler between the powder and ball with grease over ball , and any other safe combos you can come up with to try. Some Remingtons like .451 the best and others do great with .454 .
Most of your cowboy shooters keep there loads low and use a little grease to keep things moving when they have to do a lot of shooting. Some guns can be super accurate with light powder loads.Mike

[TexasRifleman]

And by the way, all bets are off if you are using Triple Seven, which seems to be about all that's stocked outside of regular Pyrodex here in my area. I guess it's popular with the hunters.

If you're using 777, you have to reduce the load by 15% according to their website. I mention this because I was given a pound of Pinnacle and a pound of 777 FFFg.

I have not tried the 777 because I fear such a small load will not allow the ball to be seated far enough without leaving air space. Maybe I need 2 wads between that stuff and the ball? Or, maybe I need to give it to someone else and avoid it. Not sure which yet :D

[Dave Markowitz]

I was also given some .454 balls. If I understand it right, I can still use them, I'll just be shaving a lot of lead off with the loading lever and will see less accurate fire since the balls are no longer nice and round is that correct?

No. In my experience, using a somewhat oversized ball in a cap & ball revolver results in better accuracy. The larger ball gives you a longer bearing surface, which is gripped better by the rifling. E.g., for my Uberti 1851 Navy, the recommended load is a .375" ball. As it happens, accuracy sucks using the .375" load, but is quite acceptable with a .380" ball.

In .44s, I use .457" balls. This is what Ruger recommends for the Old Army, but it's worked good for me in a Dragoon as well.

[Beartracker]

TexasSigMan, I heard the same thing you did about the 777 but I did some checking on the Penical (Made by my favorite, Goex) and with that you use the same measurements and the stuff is really supposed to be great. I haven't found any yet around here. but one shop did tell me he has some ordered. It will be hard to get the Goex out of my hands! ;)
Here is what Pietta say's about black powder and it's the same as the Goex chart. Hope you guy's can read it because I'm no expert on how to post this stuff. Mike
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Beartracker/My%2001%204x4%20Tacoma/Blackpowder.jpg

[TexasRifleman]

First, a follow up if anyone is reading this, then another question if you don't mind.

I said :

I have not tried the 777 because I fear such a small load will not allow the ball to be seated far enough without leaving air space. Maybe I need 2 wads between that stuff and the ball? Or, maybe I need to give it to someone else and avoid it.

Tried it today, 20 grains of FFFG 777, no problem. Wimpy load however. I eased up until if "felt" the same as the Pinnacle. I wound up at 25gr of the stuff for my Walker. Cleans up very easily. Not much smoke. Boring.

Now another question, and I may already know the answer. After shooting a cylinder full, then reloading to do it all again, I have lots of misfires unless I run a cap through an empty cylinder. I guess it gets gunked up.

Do you guys normally shoot one empty cap between loads to clean out the nipple?

Thanks! I'm enjoying this very much!! Shot quite a bit today, the Wonder Wads make a world of difference. The parts are in the oven right now drying out.

[Jim101]

TexSIG,

Who did you get the pistol from? I have been looking to get a BP also, I see you are in the same area as I am...I have been looking in Bass Pro, etc. and they have a good selection(for as much as I know). I mainly have been looking for a steel instead of brass fame..........
ALL of this is good reading........thanks

Thanks,

Jim

[TexasRifleman]

Mine is a Cimarron example of the Uberti. Uberti makes the parts but Cimarron in Fredricksburg, TX assembles and does the finish work.

They do very nice work, I have lots of their centerfire reproductions. They make the nicest SAA repro I have ever seen.

They have a seller right in Fredricksburg for the BP stuff.
I bought mine from them and it was here in 2 days. They are a bit pricier than the stuff at Cabelas and Bass Pro, but in my opinion the fit and finish it far superior. They do a lot of the tuning of the Uberti parts needed to make operation smooth.

They are at

http://cimarron-firearms.com/

and their reseller Texas Jacks is at

http://www.texasjacks.com/BlkPowder/CimBlkPowder.htm

[Jim101]

Thanks for the information...

Jim