Tell me about Oklahoma...


September 29, 2005, 12:56 PM
I *might* have a job opportunity in Oklahoma, so I'm trying to get some information. Tell me about Oklahoma...the politicis, the people, the culture, the gun laws, the terrain, etc. The job is in Edmond, by the way.

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September 29, 2005, 01:13 PM

September 29, 2005, 01:17 PM
It's full of Okies. (I'm only kidding. They are nice people, and after all, I'ts not far to the Red River.)

September 29, 2005, 01:22 PM
From what I have read Oklahoma is a pretty gun friendly state. no silly AWB there. Anyways since you are also from California the gun laws are going to get better no matter where you go cept the North east places :neener: .

I have Family in Tulsa its kinda on the boring side I guess but its not too bad I've gone hunting a little back there as I recall it wasn't much of a drive to find a place we could hunt. lots of bass fishing.

Its the midwest its not California so like it or not I don't know its different for sure. I have no idea where Edmond is I think thats where you said.

prolly best if you got check it out yourself first. Its not my favorite place in the world but the extra freedom does make it more tolerable, as long as its not one of the plains areas I think I could handle it I might end up out that way myself in the next year or so.

September 29, 2005, 02:03 PM
Well, having gone to school here the last few years...

Edmond isn't such a bad place. I'm only ten or fifteen miles South in OKC, and I have quite a few friends from Edmond, and I visit the UCO library on a regular basis.

Edmond is as typical a yuppie suburb as you'll find in Oklahoma. It is also growing at an alarming rate. Much of it is still horse pasture, but there is constant development. The traffic isn't too bad (I come from Dallas, so it's an easy driving area), and the people are all pretty friendly.

Oklahoma is a shall-issue state, and the requirements are pretty simple. I looked it over on (thought I might get an OK CCW in addition to TX. Can't do it, but oh well), and it seemed pretty much the same as TX in terms of jumping through hoops. A little cheaper, too, IIRC. The only downside is that OK doesn't have the highly specific and very simple signage requirements that Texas does. You might be walking into a bar (a prohibited place) and not know it. It's best to phone ahead to determine if the establishment is classified a bar or restaurant.

As for attitude... I haven't seen any indication one way or the other about guns in OK. I think that's a good sign. I don't recall any "no weapons" signs anywhere it isn't prohibited by law, and I haven't met any Okies who were openly hostile to firearms. A few have some reservations, but this is still very much a rural state, so most folks are only vaguely aware that guns are a controversial topic in some places. Edmond will probably tend to be more on the anti side than say, Duncan (middle-o-nowhere SW OK), but even Edmond will appear a city of gun-nuttery compared to San Diego.

As for ranges... I like the Banner road range South of I-40 just past Yukon. It's a bit of a drive, but it'll be interstate the whole way from Edmond, so it's no big deal. You'll have to get used to traversing long distances out here, since it's so spread out. If you end up coming out this way, let us know, and Dionysusigma and I will be more than happy to take you down there.

Oh, and I hope you like it breezy... Oklahoma gives a new definition to "windage." We were at 30mph sustained, 36mph gusting yesterday, and that's practically stagnant compared to springtime. You'll also want to make sure your car has new shocks. Edmond won't be so bad, being relatively new, but Oklahoma roads are second only to Louisiana for being absolutely awful.

September 29, 2005, 03:02 PM
It's where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.

September 29, 2005, 03:28 PM
east or west OK? the topography is drstically different between the 2.
west ok is desolate
east ok is hilly and wooded
pretty gun friendly and conservative overall.

for the past 8 years I have lived within a few miles of the OK border and cross over frequently.

September 29, 2005, 03:29 PM
Ditto pretty much what Azrael256 said. Let us know, and we'll get you shooting an AK in no time. :)

I don't recall any "no weapons" signs anywhere it isn't prohibited by lawWell... yes and no. 7-11s and other such places have 'em posted, but aside from them they're few and far between.

People are friendly, and politics generally range from libertarian (although many don't know it) to middle of the road. We have our share of hippies and the like, but we keep 'em under control. :D

Terrain is generally farmland, with more hills and stuff in the southeastern part of the state. It gets more desolate to the west. Winters are sometimes snowy, with anywhere from 20-35 deg. F as the normal temperature. Springs are windy, rainy, and will almost always have tornadoes; they're hell on earth, but I've not been hit by one yet after living in the midwest for ~12 years now. Summers get to 105F, and can get kinda dry. Autumn is... well, it does what it wants. It can be 85F one day, and then an honest-to-god ice storm the next.

We've got pretty much everything that the rest of the country does including fine dining to Rt.66 greasy spoons, art museums to rodeos, opera and theater to gun ranges, and clubs to dive bars.

And finally, something that my brother posted on his Xanga before he left to go back to DC:
Saturday, August 13, 2005
A list of things I’ve discovered while living in Oklahoma:
Warning: some may sound really stupid
1) There are more than two towns in Oklahoma.
2) Oklahomans are some of the toughest people I’ve ever met. I guess some old wild frontier blood in there somewhere.
3) Attendance, while recommended, is not required in Dr. Eberhard’s classes.
4) Sometimes it’s ok for the news to lead with a story on the weather.
5) Pride. Lots and lots of pride. And passion too. People here are not always the laid back personalities that they are sometimes portrayed to be. Find the right thing and they’ll get going on it.
6) The words to the song “Oklahoma.”
7) A new found appreciation for karaoke.
8) A lack of seafood is worth the trade for good Tex-Mex and Mexicali foods.
9) Beauty. There are some incredible and inspiring places here with natural beauty. Keep it that way; we need all of it that we can get.
10) Driving a couple of hours is nothing. Get used to it.
From (Yes, I'm the one that did that portait of him) :rolleyes:

September 29, 2005, 03:38 PM
Edmond is not such a bad place. It is your pretty typical suburban area, being near OKC. Easy access to the Interstate and all of the stuff in OKC. Plus it's not all that far from Texas! :p

Gun rights are pretty good in OK.

September 29, 2005, 04:42 PM

You can find alot of info on there,

September 29, 2005, 06:15 PM
Hotter than hell in the summer.

Colder than hell in the winter.

Tornados somewhere in between.

Red Mud, cotton mouths, chiggers and ticks

Great people though and probably the best chicken fried steak in the world! MMMMMM!

Oh yeah, its also where the waving wheat can sure smell sweet and the wind comes right behind rain!

mons meg
September 29, 2005, 06:36 PM
I grew up in Edmond. Nice enough town, but I live a bit north of there in Guthrie now, since Edmond has grown so fast I don't even like to drive there unless I have to go to the Lowe's.

Here are some tips to fitting in:

1) Buy some golf clubs.
2) Make sure your car is less than 4 or 5 years old.
3) Don't expect to hear a "hick" accent there. Edmond barely tolerates "y'all".
4) Try to find a "W '04" bumper sticker for that not-too-old car even though the election is long over.
5) Try to move here from CA where you sold your 1600 square foot 3 bedroom your grandma left you in the Valley for $500,000 which will basically put you in a 3000-4000 square foot mini-mansion on the NW side of town and help to ruin the housing market for the natives. ;)

Edit for gun law comment: CCW here is straightforward, as others have said. What is often overlooked is even though we are a "must inform LEO" state, the LEO is specifically prohibited from "inspecting" your carry piece. Not sure if that means what I think it does, which is they can't legally disarm you, but I suppose if you're at a traffic stop they can ask you to "come back to the cruiser" and leave it in your car. We also have a revised parking lot rule in the law (check okshooters for more discussion) which prohibits an employer from prohibiting a licensee from leaving your weapon in your locked personal vehicle. :)

September 29, 2005, 06:38 PM
1) Don't golf
2) It is.
3) I'm from California, no hick accent or "y'all" here.
4) No.
5) I don't own a home right now, I rent. I won't be ruining the housing market.

mons meg
September 29, 2005, 06:45 PM
1) You WILL learn .. oh yessss.....
2) cool enough
3) you should be fine
4) doesn't really matter, just don't show up with a Kerry sticker. :P
5) Bless you sir...

mons meg
September 29, 2005, 06:48 PM
One more thing. Start your CWL (concealed weapon license) as soon as your get your driver's license. They will take all 90 days allowed by law, assuming your prints don't get kicked. Although, you might have better luck in Oklahoma county since it would be the largest Sheriff's office in the state. They have satellite offices at the major malls where you can submit the paperwork. And noone looks at you funny for daring to apply... :)

September 29, 2005, 10:42 PM
I don't own a home right now, I rent. I won't be ruining the housing market. You're in for a real treat, then. The rental housing market here isn't great, but it's better than Dallas, which can't be half as bad as San Diego. wind comes right behind rain! No, it comes before the rain. It comes during the rain. It comes after the rain. It comes pretty much whenever it darn well pleases, and that's pretty much all the time.

You like wind, right?

September 29, 2005, 11:18 PM
I live in OKC.....and since this is a gun related thing the others have failed to will be pleasantly the prices of OKC. I lived a time on the road so to speak....and was in the habit of visiting gunshops wherever I could......and I am here to tell you., all you can....when you can.....cuz you will be hard pressed to find any in America cheaper.

September 30, 2005, 02:18 AM
If you're going to be there awhile, try to get into the Oklahoma City Gun Club. They have a square mile of land just east of Edmond near the lake. It has some very nice ranges and quite a few types of organized matches. Be prepared for a waiting list to get in, but it's a nice place to shoot.

The weather is definitely 4-season and the wind is usually blowing from some direction. 10-15 MPH wind is normal. The weather can also change rapidly. You'll see blistering sun, ice, big hail, high winds, flash flooding, drought, fridgid cold artic air, blazing hot air, and maybe hear about a tornado or 2. In other words, typical great plains weather without huge snowfall acumulations (ice is much more likely). A garage or covered parking for your car is highly advisable.

There is at least 1 indoor range in OKC (H&H) and the OKC gunclub is all outdoors.

September 30, 2005, 02:59 PM
I have Family in Tulsa its kinda on the boring side I guess

I guess that depends on where you look for your entertainment. I don't usually find it in town much.

Baba Louie
September 30, 2005, 04:05 PM
Tulsa Gun Show.

September 30, 2005, 04:40 PM
Tulsa Gun Show.

The BEST. Reason enough to move to OK.

September 30, 2005, 05:38 PM
I live in Tulsa and love it! You get all four seasons. Everything is usually cheaper (including guns) No pro sports but plenty of college sports. Great golf, fishing, hunting. Plenty of stuff to do! Good luck on your job interview!!

another okie
September 30, 2005, 09:28 PM
1. OKC Gun Club is excellent. Last I heard there was a waiting list, so if you decide to make the move sign on at once.
2. CCW is easy.
3. It's legal to own full autos here, and some ranges rent them.
4. No open carry, except while hunting or on your own property or business.
5. Lots of gun stores.
6. Lots of shooting sports activities - IPSC, IDPA, skeet, trap, bullseye, etc.

1. Democrats rule most counties; the state votes Republican at the national level. Both Senators and four of five Reps are Republican.
2. Very conservative in some ways, very populist in others. Some mistrust of government.
3. Low taxes, especially real estate taxes.

1. It's McAmerica - a wealthy suburb with no distinguishing characteristic.
2. Near the OKC Gun Club (Arcadia).
3. Home of University of Central Oklahoma, which is basically a giant teachers' college but has some nice programs.
4. Cost of living is generally quite low in Oklahoma. Edmond is a little higher, but if you're moving from California it will seem cheap.

1. No major league sports, but Tulsa and OKC have minor league baseball. OKC may have the Hornets from Nawlins.
2. College football and basketball are the two biggest sports.
3. No beaches or mountains, but lots of lakes. Golf and boating are the biggest outdoor attractions.

October 19, 2005, 03:41 PM
Just got a voicemail regarding this job. Calling them back this evening. Looks like I might be heading out to Edmond afterall.

chris in va
October 19, 2005, 03:54 PM

Keep that in mind. Get a GOOD weather radio and know where your tornado shelter is.

October 19, 2005, 05:05 PM
As long as you are in the Tulsa, or OKC areas its fine. Don't venture into se Oklahoma to much though. This is one of the worst areas I have ever been, it's basically akin to living and working in a third world country. I haven't had water at my house for three days, this outage is the 4-5 one in the past few months. Many people don't have phones or cars, most of them don't want to work. It's honestly a hell hole.

October 19, 2005, 05:12 PM
Well, it's a LOT closer to Texas than California, so I'd say go for it.

October 19, 2005, 05:30 PM
I have lived in Oklahoma all of my life and still have never seen a tornado!!

October 19, 2005, 05:45 PM
Oklahoma has very diverse terrain, the area around Oklahoma City is rolling hills, as is most of the central part of the state, we also have deserts, mountains and everything in between. South Eastern Oklahoma is beautiful, the Talamena Skyline Drive across the mountain tops between Talihina OK and Mena AR is a very well known scenic route, the Beaver's Bend area is very scenic also. South Western Oklahoma has mountains in an almost desert atmosphere, North Western is very flat but some parts are in mesa country, the Black Mesa is quite well known. Quite a variety of things to do and see.

Spec ops Grunt
October 19, 2005, 05:48 PM
As long as you are in the Tulsa, or OKC areas its fine. Don't venture into se Oklahoma to much though. This is one of the worst areas I have ever been, it's basically akin to living and working in a third world country. I haven't had water at my house for three days, this outage is the 4-5 one in the past few months. Many people don't have phones or cars, most of them don't want to work. It's honestly a hell hole.

I find that very offensive.

BTW where do you live?

mons meg
October 19, 2005, 05:50 PM
Oh, and don't worry TOO much about Oklahoma Democrats. I mean, the Democrat controlled legislature is the one that voted in CCW in the first I'm fond of saying, OK Democrats are a smidge to the right of California Republicans. ;)

October 19, 2005, 06:07 PM
My parents live in Tulsa, transplants from Iowa, via Nebraska, Wyoming and North Dakota.

They seem to like the place, folks are from rural Iowa and they like the conservative nature about most of the people. They said price of housing is pretty good, I looked at a few ads and Tulsa seems to be cheaper to live than central Iowa, but wages are lower by some degree.

My parents big complaints is that the crime rate is pretty high in Tulsa, but look where they have lived. I guess carjackings are a big thing, I wouldn't know lived here in Iowa almost all my life, 31 years. They don't care for the traffic all that much. They said the folks down there are pretty friendly, much like Iowa.

They do miss Iowa a lot and probably move back in a few years when my dad retires. Other than that, I think they enjoy Tulsa better than the other places they have lived. I haven't had more than a 3 day weekend free since they moved there a year and a half ago and I haven't visited them yet so I can't give my opinion of the place.


October 19, 2005, 07:06 PM
We'll have to set up a "Welcome to Oklahoma" range day, then. :)

October 19, 2005, 08:28 PM
As previously stated... 1) The Tulsa Gun Show, but a close second would be Mustang Gun and "Pawn". I put pawn in quotes because I don't see anything "pawn" about that place. I know they have a bunch of used guns, and they buy guns, but it just never has that "pawn" feel to it. I'm from Lawton so I know the "pawn" feeling, and Mustang Gun and Pawn doesn't have it. :D

October 19, 2005, 11:03 PM
As long as you are in the Tulsa, or OKC areas its fine. Don't venture into se Oklahoma to much though. This is one of the worst areas I have ever been, it's basically akin to living and working in a third world country. I haven't had water at my house for three days, this outage is the 4-5 one in the past few months. Many people don't have phones or cars, most of them don't want to work. It's honestly a hell hole.

I'll have to raise the BS flag on that. I grew up in SE Oklahoma and some of the nicest and most down to earth people you'll ever meet are out that way. I can't ever remember a day not having water, always had phones and never walked to school since we had a car. Now my Dad on the other hand had to get water from a well and walk 15 miles to school (or so he says) but that was 1946.

So exactly what town are you in? Are you sure you didn't go too far and end up in western Arkansas:neener: (just kidding for any Arkansians out there - you make some damn fine .45s in your state)

October 19, 2005, 11:20 PM
Oklahoma is "God's Country"

October 20, 2005, 12:17 AM
I live in SW Oklahoma, and love it here. We have ample wildlife, and good people.

SE Oklahoma is simply magnificent. I spend many a deeer season in McCurtain County, and have alwatys found the residents to be beyond pleasant. Idabel, Broken Bow, and the like are very poor communities, but they are very honest, and hard working. As a matter of fact, I would like to buy some land in either McCurtain or Pushmataha County in preparation for my retirement. Just cant quite convince the wife that desolation is a good thing.

October 20, 2005, 01:25 AM
Doesn't Reba McEntyre and her famiy have a big farm in the southern part of the state. I lived in Tulsa for 3 years. It is the only city I have ever been to or lived in that I kinda liked. It was clean. Now they also have great Flea Markets at the Fair Grounds if there is a misses with you that likes that sort of thing or you do. I can't remember the lake but it was in the NE part of the state where the water was like 55 degress in the summer times and the stripped bass fishing was wonderful. Troll along and man you get a big one. Great deer hunting.

October 21, 2005, 12:47 AM
I find that very offensive.

BTW where do you live?

I live in Atoka, I apologize if I offended you. I was having a majorly bad day attempting to get the water fixed amongst other things. Again I went a lot bit overboard there and I very much apologize.

October 21, 2005, 12:54 AM
Tell me more about this mustang gun and pawn...

where is it?

Oh yea and the Big Tulsa Gun Show is this weekend and im gonna miss it! :( :( :( :( :(

October 21, 2005, 02:05 AM
You will like Oklahoma. Cowgirls. I have Relatives there, they honor my CHL. Cowgirls. Lost of good country music. Cowgirls
Whats not to like

October 21, 2005, 01:32 PM
Mustang Pawn and Gun is in Mustang, OK. SW of OKC.

October 21, 2005, 01:51 PM
Never lived there, but I've been there a lot. Very friendly people (but then, I'm a respectful sort of guy) BEST place to bowhunt whitetails I've ever been. GREAT gun shows. GREAT chicken fried steak. No, don't say you won't eat it or won't try it. When in Rome...

And, you have some of the wildest, most unknown mountain areas there are. Lots of space and lots of game. Just don't expect it to rain all the time, though. :D

October 21, 2005, 05:00 PM
It's north of Texas:neener:

October 21, 2005, 06:59 PM
Pfft. Texans... :rolleyes:

Mustang Pawn and Gun
125 W. HWY. 152
Mustang, OK 73064
(405) 376-3833

Tuesday - Saturday 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM

October 21, 2005, 09:56 PM

Land of 7% income tax and 8.25% (where I live) sales tax on EVERYTHING. Food...taxed, medicine....taxed, clothes...taxed, utilities....taxed.

Property taxes are low, but then so are property values.

Hotter than hades in the summer. Fall is the only nice season. Spring is tornado season. I HAVE seen what 100 mph non-tornadic winds will do.

State spends fuel tax on things other than roads and then wants 5 cents added to the fuel tax to fix the roads.

Government grew at all levels in the go-go 90s but did not shrink in the 2000s.

Gambling is frowned upon here in the bible belt, but it is everywhere (legal too).

Meth labs galore.

The city I live in is constantly wasting tax dollars and hiking the water bill to pay for it (the only thing they can raise without a vote of the people).

OK has a "make my day law" that gives criminals second thoughts about home invasions.

Toll roads are all over the place. The previous Governor wanted to build toll roads to sparsely populated areas and pay for them by raising the tolls on frequently travelled roads.

OK City is the only real growth spot in the state.

Businesses are deserting OK for Texas. Phillips merged with Conoco and moved the HQ to Texas.

Arkansas is expected to move ahead of OK in per capita income in the near future.

I'm moving to Tennessee as soon as my wife is vested in her retirement plan.

October 22, 2005, 02:23 PM
Pfft. Texans... :rolleyes:

Mustang Pawn and Gun
125 W. HWY. 152
Mustang, OK 73064
(405) 376-3833

Tuesday - Saturday 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM

Don't go at lunch time though, the door'll be locked. :D

October 22, 2005, 03:01 PM
3) I'm from California, no hick accent or "y'all" here.dasmi, I grew up in San Diego, left for the Army when I was 18, spent my first two Army years upstate in Monterey, then ended up in Texas for seven years. I use y'all quite frequently now, along with howdy. Prepare for assimilation, buddy. :what: :neener:

October 22, 2005, 07:33 PM
Fair trade for good BBQ and Shiner Bock, methinks. :)

October 22, 2005, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by spooney
As long as you are in the Tulsa, or OKC areas its fine. Don't venture into se Oklahoma to much though. This is one of the worst areas I have ever been, it's basically akin to living and working in a third world country. I haven't had water at my house for three days, this outage is the 4-5 one in the past few months. Many people don't have phones or cars, most of them don't want to work. It's honestly a hell hole "" What a crock 'o $h!+, Just got back from 3 great days of fishing at Hugo lake with Buster, my very soon to be father-in-law. Thursday in the am we ran his snag lines and caught a 49lb flathead. Seen a black bear eating pumpkins about 200 yards from his "fish camp', counted 11 turkeys in the SAME pasture and jumped four deer while trying to get a pic of the bear. Best folks for friends I have ever met, generally speaking, and HONEST. About Edmond, great town, has a church with a 150ft CROSS right along side I-35, great schools, white suberbia~deluxe. Gun laws are a footnote, nothing more; CC is a breeze to obtain, public hunting and fishing opportunities are abundant, liscenses are decently priced- but get a lifetime liscense if you can, and although I don't golf, the number of courses are incredible- I see a new golf course every week. Taxes are on the low side, and tornado shelters are write-offable on your taxes. "Is this aa great State or what?!"

October 23, 2005, 12:07 PM
I honestly love this state.

We need to get together for a range day. There are a lot more Okies here than I thought.

Whos in?

October 23, 2005, 02:05 PM
Depending on the where and when count me in. I don't know if it can be arranged but if possible the Tri-City gun club range would be a good place to have an Okie THR get together. Range has a picnic area and a couple of large covered barbecue grills. 200 yard rifle range, 80 yard rifle range and 25 yard pistol along with an archery and shotgun range.

There's at least one event going on most weekends but usually not both Saturday and Sunday so scheduling would be possible.

October 23, 2005, 02:29 PM
Doesn't Oklahoma have some bizarre restriction on the amount of alcohol in beer? Seems like they have the 3.2 beer, which from what I hear is like drinking O'Douls. But, you can smuggle Shiner Bock in across the Red River with no problems. :evil:

October 23, 2005, 02:40 PM
Just go to the Liquor store to buy your beer - better selection anyway!!

Otherguy Overby
October 23, 2005, 07:40 PM
Just go to the Liquor store to buy your beer - better selection anyway!!

Oklahoma is f$$king wierd. ONLY 3.2 beer can be bought cold! You want real beer, you have to buy it warm and then take it home for another day.

another okie
October 23, 2005, 08:49 PM
Most "real" beer is only about 4% alcohol anyway, and actually low-alcohol beer is quite common in Germany, for example. There are two reasons this gets blown up into a bigger deal than it is:

1. There are two ways to measure alcohol, and to appeal to silly teenage boys people often select the one that gives a higher number.

2. The term "6% beer" has given many people the impression that "real" beer is 6% alcohol, which is hardly ever the case. The 6% is another legal threshold in some states, requiring more taxes or different labels. It's a ceiling, not a floor. There are a few really, really strong beers in the world, such as those with the ending "-ator" on their name in Germany, (Salvator, etc.) but they're pretty rare.

If it matters to you go to a liquor store, but I did a blind taste test once with some friends and no one could tell the difference.

October 23, 2005, 08:50 PM
Another day??? Are you crazy, or is your "experience" not up to par? :evil:

13 minutes in an ice chest full of ice and water=cold beer. :neener:

October 23, 2005, 08:51 PM
Yes, Oklahoma has 3.2 beer, as does Kansas.

I dont believe it, though. I have arrested drunks who have had the same number of 3.2 beers as 6.o beers, and both are just as drunk. Seen it time and time again.

Also, no liquor sales on Sunday, holidays, or election days.

October 24, 2005, 06:01 AM
The beer alcohol content originated in the prohibition days, it was a way to skirt the laws in effect at the time~ the powers to be have just never got around to making it "right" by the standard all others seem to think is correct. 3 beers in a 2hr span on an emppty stomach is .08 BAC in a 190lb. person - legally drunk ( a DUI! ) and a charageable offence in this great state.

October 24, 2005, 11:10 AM
-My overall impression having lived here my whole life of 36 years, is that this state sucks hairy sweaty gonads, for the most part. But I've never lived anywhere else (besides 3-months stints in Colo, Fla, Penn, Ind, IA, and NE), so perhaps its not that much worse than other places. I'll give you the good, then the bad.


-*Relatively* friendly gun and self-defense laws. Relative to Calif, Mass, etc, but not relative to AK, VT, or really even TX. We have shall-issue CCW, but the fees are fairly high (not terribly so, but more than they should be), but you have to be 23 to get one, which I find to be complete BS - should be 21 or less. There is no deadly-force-to-protect-property-after-dark right like TX (bah!), and there are some fairly restrictive laws and DA attitudes about guns - no carry in passenger compartment of vehicle unless ammo is completely absent - this is NOT how the law reads but it IS how LEOs attempt to enforce it in the cities, and some rurual areas too. Overall, though, gun-friendly and very self-defense friendly, particularly in your home (we have the 'make-my-day' law).

-Lots of beautiful and varying landscapes, climates, rural and wilderness areas. Lots of wildlife dept game management areas, and beautiful lakes, state parks & such. Hunting is popular and accepted as a hobby amongst the general public. Lots of good hunting for deer & turkeys, plus hogs in some places, as well as quail, pheasants (some), doves, ducks, geese, but no hunting of mountain lion or black bear. You can take nuisance species year-round (hogs, beaver, coyotes, nutria). NE and SE okla are heavily forested and hilly in most places, with the Ouchita and western Ozark 'mountains'. Also have some pretty & hilly areas south central (Arbuckles), and a little SW (Witchita mountains, which are pretty big). Some elk in the Witchita range. Quite a few gun ranges and gun stores, but not enough long ranges (either clubs or public), or selection of shooting/gunsmithing gear in the stores by a long shot for my tastes. No 1000-yard ranges in central OK (that I'm aware of), and no place like Brownells.

-People are friendly and help one another out in times of crises, for the most part, but are becoming more and more rude in the cities over time just like the rest of the world. Peeps are still largely very genuine and helpful in the rural areas.

-Low, low cost of living. Particularly housing is very cheap. Your big city money from another state can buy a LOT of house here, particularly in the country.

Bad (where to start?; roughly in order from worst to least bad):

-Littering is a hobby for most people. It's truly unbelievable how many people and the magnitude of the litter people just toss out on the ground. It's an absolute joke in my view. I think we need to institute jail terms for littering, but it ain't gonna happen. The governor's office tried a campaign to curb it, and it helped a tad, but not much. People are just either so stupid they don't realize that all of us pay in lost aesthetics for their acts, or they don't care.

-Smoking. This is a particularly bad problem if you are single and looking like me, since it seems like 75% to 90% of the women I would otherwise be interested in dating around here smoke. It's absurd really, the common-ness of smoking. Can't tell you how many times I've had to nix a potential otherwise-attractive datee due to this. This also goes hand in hand with littering above, because it seems that over half the litter is contributed by smokers (I say this since I see 2-5 people a day just tossing their cigarette butts out their windows, and at least twice a week I have to pick up cigarett pack wrappers, packs, and butts from my front yard and street in front.

-Government corruption. Very high levels it seems to me. Serious good ol boy system in the gov't and courts. As a lawyer I can get a fair shake in federal court, but NOT in state court if you don't personally know the judge and the other side does, with a few exceptions of fair judges. Even worse in rural counties. Your client is screwed if he's not from the rural county in which you're representing him/her. We are taxed at very high levels, yet have little to show for it. We pay 8.375% sales tax in OKC, yet we have virtually NO sidewalks, very few city parks. We are a very unfriendly place for pedestrians (with lack of sidewalks in neighborhoods) and families seeking a cheap outing at a local park. We have some of the worst roads & bridges in the country; this despite our high tax rates and these *ridiculous* toll roads everywhere you go - funny how they never take the toll booths down even when the road/turnpike project is paid for. They tried to hike the gas tax recently to pay for roads & bridge repair, but the public wisely shot it down in flames, like 80 to 20% - we need to hold the legislature's feet to the fire for not using our previous tax dollars judiciously; not reward the dodos for having squandered it by bailing them out with a new tax.

-We are the buckle of the bible belt. Fine if you are a believer, but not if you are not. It is ridiculous in my view the incessant actions of our gov't when it comes to trying to ban books like Huck Finn from libraries, or push creationism in the schools, etc, etc, etc. The public is outraged by consensual sex acts between adults that don't meet the public's view of the norm, according to their religion (protestant Christian, of course, mostly evangelical). We are in the dark ages here. We are one of those states who's crim. justice system would likely put you on the sex offender registry for mooning the cheerleaders. I could go on and on about this. It's not a negative, however, if you believe what they believe, I suppose. Though not directly related to being in the bible belt, I will mention that because it's a law-and-order type place, the average citizen likes to throw the book at crime so to speak (which is all well and good, but...), so they think that where there's smoke, there's fire, and cops don't lie, so you'd better not be a criminal defendant around here - guilty or not, you're likely doin time. Jurors routinely hand down sentences more than the DA/DOC had recommended, and meeting the maximum allowable. Great if they're guilty, notsomuch if they're innocent. Oh, and everyone is gung-ho, peachy-keen behind the waronsomedrugs.

-Economy. Well, it sucks beyond belief. Despite our massive oil & nat. gas deposits, our economy is in the tank. Wages are low, low, low. Very hard to make a living wage from the many many service jobs which are around here. Fewer and fewer factory jobs every year. With my other negatives listed, it's not difficult to see why the movers and shakers won't come here with their skills and/or investment money. We have a low worker productivity rate and relatively bad work ethic; another reason why many employers are reluctant to come here. Lots of our good talent move the heck out when the graduate college - can't blame them - wish I would have.

-Incredibly high domestic problem situations. Extremely high divorce rate (over 50% most places, and around 60% in OK county). High levels of unwed co-habitation (which I don't view as bad per se), high levels of births out of wedlock (which I do view as bad per se in most cases). Lots of domestic abusers and dysfunctional families it seems to me.

-Given the above, the irony/hypocrisy of people is thick as it can be, given the fact that people are all self-righteous and scornful about sex issues in the public arena, yet still engage in endless catting around (see domestic problems), still smoke, still gamble a lot, and still litter (see above). It's infuriating how the morality of the average "Christian" I meet is far less than my own (an agnostic). Go figure.

Round here, it's god & guns that get you elected. Least we're 1 for 2.

Having said all that, it perhaps possible or even likely that the downsides I mentioned are true ANYWHERE you go. But I doubt it, to the extent of this state, particularly the economy and the domestic issues.

P.S. 3.2% beer gets you plenty drunk - not much different than so-called 6 point beer.

October 24, 2005, 12:48 PM
best thing about ok. is a short drive to texas

October 24, 2005, 01:21 PM
CCW age is 21, and has been for a couple of years. Oklahoma has reduced the unlicesned carryng of a weapon in a vehicle from an arrestable offense to one that is a ticket and max fine of 70 dollars. The auto as an extension of the home law is only a few years away, in my opinion.

The wages are low, but so is the cost of living. As a police officer in a small southwestern OK city, I make ~11.00 and hour. Sounds terrible, until you consider I paid ~ 50,000 for my 1400+ sq ft hom,e on two lots, newly remodeled. State income taxes are a bit ridiculous, IMO, but not everything is good.

The police and District Attorneys are actually very pro gun in most counties other that Oklahoma County. Stanly Glanz, the Sheriff od Tulsa County is very pro-gun. We havd all kinds of natural scenery and attractions.

Personally, I love it here, and always will. The only real downfall I can think of is that we are the only state in the Union who still dont allow tattoos.

Otherguy Overby
October 24, 2005, 02:28 PM
Most "real" beer is only about 4% alcohol anyway, and actually low-alcohol beer is quite common in Germany, for example.

Once upon a time in a different life I worked in a brewery (Budweiser)
When the beer was shipped the alcohol content was stated on the bill of lading. There were two alcohol content amounts: 5% and 3.2%. The 5% was by far the most common to be shipped. The 3.2% generally only went to two kinds of places: military bases and pro-sports stadiums.

If it matters to you go to a liquor store, but I did a blind taste test once with some friends and no one could tell the difference.

And a very good excuse to have a party... Blindfolded beer tasting... :)

You are also right that people mostly can't tell by taste. Generally those most loudly claiming to be able to tell the difference, can't. Great fun! There are some who really can tell by taste but they are in a small minority.

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