"Serenity"--a gun slinging libertarian western in space (SPOILERS)


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Cosmoline
September 30, 2005, 10:57 PM
I'm spinning this off into a new thread from the TV show thread.

[MINOR SPOILERS]

I was very pleased with it. The spirit of the show remains intact, and the political message comes through much stronger than it did on the show. Happily, it's not a left wing message--it's a LIBERTARIAN message. The Alliance isn't the Empire of "Star Wars." It's much closer to the governing elite of our own world--of all political stripes. The Alliance wants to make people better. And if they don't comply, there are punishments. As Mal says, it's a mistake to try to make people better. It only leads to greater evil. Folks should just be LEFT ALONE. Wow. Not a very typical message from Sillywood.

The plot is somewhat uneven. It's very, very tight in places but there are some TV-like slow spots. Whedon is still trying to find his big screen footing. The film would have benefitted from another edit, I suspect. Lisa Lassek is listed as the editor, and her IMDB sure enough shows she's one of Whedon's people from "Firefly." A better move might have been to team Lassek up with an editor with more big screen, high concept experience. But for a first time effort she did a good job.

The script was great, but you can see the seams. By that I mean you can see all the various episodes of "Firefly" that were planned in Whedon's mind but never got made. The "Mr. Universe" hacker character would have had his own episode or two. The Operative would have chased them around for a season, and the ultimate Big Secret in the film would have taken a year or two to get to.

The cast continues the top-grade job they did on TV. Baldwin and Fillion make the jump to big screen well. Ron Glass also does well, though he doesn't have much screen time. Jewel Staite and Gina Torres don't get that much screen time. Though I suspect if you timed it Baldwin isn't getting any more lines or time than Torres. On the big screen, though Baldwin is totally at home. He has twenty five years of extensive film experience and the difference between his ownership of the screen and the more timid approach from other actors is interesting, though not distracting. Fillion claimed to be trying to channel Harrison Ford through the whole thing, but I'm happy to report he FAILS in that effort. He's not Han Solo--not by a longshot. His character is darker and more scarred than Solo ever was.

Chiwetel Ejiofor does a good job reprising the heartless bounty hunter role of Richard Brooks' Jubal Early from the final episode of Firefly. Only this time he's an unnamed operative from the Alliance. The only quibble I have about the character is that he only has a limited amount of time to flesh out and in the end his development seems rushed. It seems like Whedon had a lot of plans for this character or one close to it.

The action is a bit of a let-down, though still good quality and well worth watching. Whedon uses a lot of trendy quick cuts, though in the end again this is something that the editor needs to watch. There's entirely too much fishtailing and whirling about and too little solid combat. This goes for both the high atmo space battle and the hand-to-hand fights with reavers. Part of the problem may be the fact that they're trying to sell the notion that a 90 lb. girl can kick all kinds of hiney. If you slow that down it doesn't always work well. Still, I think in more experienced hands it could have been done better. Admittedly, doing it right would also have earned them an "R."

The firearms are still cool, though they got a special effects upgrade for the film and a lot of the western elements are replaced with more high-tech autos and lasers. But there's still some cool stuff including mare's laig leverguns, modified trench guns, an AR-18 with weird stuff on it, and some neat sidearms.

All things considered, it's an excellent start. Though the film makes little internal reference to a sequel, the door is not closed and I hope it does well enough to get the Serenity back up into space.

The unexpected political undertones of the film coupled with the fresh writing and dynamic energy make it worth catching. The guns make it a must-see for folks on this forum.

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ZeroX
October 1, 2005, 01:28 AM
I love Firefly and I highly recommend Serenity as well. Great plot, characters, action, jokes, music, message and special effects.

hso
October 1, 2005, 01:37 AM
While I enjoyed the film greatly I found most of the firearms silly (M97 Trenchgun with a scope :banghead: ) and much of the firearms handling disappointing. The tactics used in the big combat scene were nothing short of stupid (you want your attackers crammed into a narrow linear space not your defenders).

Boss Spearman
October 1, 2005, 01:45 AM
I enjoyed it. I thought the spoilers that occurred made it very realistic for the situations.

Cosmoline
October 1, 2005, 02:05 AM
HSO--you have to get into the spirit of firefly guns. It's the sort of spirit that leads one to put tactical lights and red dot scopes on leverguns. Something I'm planning to do to the Marlin 1894 I've got on order :D

However, I must say I liked the combat of the TV show better than that of the film. The TV show's shootouts were more fun and involved more common sense. In the series, for example, Mal is confronted with a hostage crisis and blows the head off the hostage taker without missing a beat. In the film he seems to have forgotten about body armor, but it's still well worth seeing. Whedon was confronted with a massive and difficult task with "Serenity," and I think he pulled it off.

I'm actually kind of hoping it does just OK at the box office and perhaps he gets to do a new string of episodes for cable. "Firefly" could still be one of the best TV shows ever. If it does too well he'll be stuck doing more features and I don't think thats his forte.

JShirley
October 1, 2005, 02:51 AM
I'd give it a 4 out of 5 stars.

M-Rex
October 1, 2005, 03:03 AM
Great. A political movie. Super.

Can non-Libertarians enjoy the movie?

Strings
October 1, 2005, 03:13 AM
it's a small "L" libertarian movie: you SHOULD enjoy it.

Spoon and I did... personally thought it made the jump to the big screen just fine. There were a couple shockers (that's all I'll say), and some things get revealed that I've been DYING to see (like actual Reavers). And I'll probably go see it again, if for nothing else than to see River go Quisanart... :D

M-Rex
October 1, 2005, 03:24 AM
it's a small "L" libertarian movie: you SHOULD enjoy it.

No doubt I will, as I enjoyed what I saw of the series. However, good sci-fi or not, I have no interest in paying $9.50 to see an indoctrination film.

Cosmoline
October 1, 2005, 03:40 AM
It's not a "political movie" in the same sense that 90% of leftist Sillywood junk is. This is a film with a very simple political message running through it--if you go around trying to force people to "become better" you will end up making things far worse. I actually don't see that as a political message so much as a fundamental truth. The centralized state has no business telling us how to live our day to day life, esp. out here on the real rim of the real 'verse :D

That said, people from all political stripes seem to have enjoyed the series and I'm sure you don't have to believe in the fundamental evil and futility of centralized government to get your dollar's worth of entertainment. I just find it refreshing to see, for the first time in my memory, a concept coming out of Hollywood that I actually agree with and sympathize with on such a fundamental level.

And it's SMALL-L "libertarian." Nothing to do with the political party.

M-Rex
October 1, 2005, 03:41 AM
Well heck...I've sat through worse, I suppose.

Justin
October 1, 2005, 03:43 AM
M-Rex, I'd say it's far less heavy-handed than your sig line.

I saw the movie this evening and really loved it. For a movie, Whedon still was able to cram an amazing amount of characterization into a much shorter story arc.

Cosmoline, you might want to put a warning at the beginning of your post stating that you include some minor spoilers in your review.

M-Rex
October 1, 2005, 03:46 AM
Granted.

Riddle me this.

Pick up the DVD's first -or- go ahead and see the movie first?

I watched a few of the episodes when they were on the SciFi Channel last weekend and I liked them. I'm a 'big story arc' guy and I don't want to miss any nuances that might be in the film.

zastros
October 1, 2005, 04:08 AM
Most of the critics that I've heard say your watching experience is enhanced by catching the DVD's first. I just think you'll really dig 'em.

zastros

Rob1035
October 1, 2005, 04:29 AM
DVD first for sure.

Tried to make it out tonight, Mrs. 1035 was ill, so no go. Perhaps tomorrow night


How have the opening night shows been? Crowded? Crazy?

Hardware
October 1, 2005, 08:48 AM
I'll say this about the crowd in the theatre I saw it in last night. We weren't crammed in there to capacity, but the theatre was comfortably full. If you came in late you sat down front in the neckache seats.

The crowd laughed at the jokes, When was the last time you saw a movie that made you laugh out loud? There were audible gasps at shocking moments in the film. And finally, the crowd applauded at the end of the movie. Pretty positive reactions all around.

The political message could boil down to "Do as we tell you to do vs. I don't like being pushed around." I think it's a message a lot of folks on this board would take an interest in.

LoadedDrum
October 1, 2005, 09:00 AM
I thought the scoped trench gun was pretty funny too. They also seem to have a preference for HK 90 series rifles. What gun was the capatain carrying?

Don Gwinn
October 1, 2005, 10:18 AM
All right, here's the thing about the DVD set:

Most people tell you to watch it first, and they're right, really, BUT I found myself comparing the movie to the DVD (which, to be fair, is an entire season of television.) I think I prefer the series. My sister and her husband watched Serenity with us last night without having seen the DVD set, and once it got past the initial flashback, I think they enjoyed it more than I did. My sister reports it was the first film my brother-in-law has seen in its entirety in the theater in years because he usually falls asleep. Judging it by the series I've become obsessed with and have probably watched in its entirety at least ten times is unfair to the film. It's still a really good movie, maybe great.

On the other hand, if you didn't watch the DVD set first, some of the tension of the series will be gone if you go back and see the DVDs later. What the Reavers are, where they come from, what Book was before he was a Shepherd, etc. all get answered in this film, so in effect it could be a spoiler for the DVD set. From that point of view, by all means, buy the DVD set and enjoy it before you see the film.

I had a few nitpicks, but I enjoyed the film so much I hate to make too much of them:

One was the idea that Mal doesn't shoot people in the face anymore. As Wash might say, "What about his face? Is his face wearing armor?"
Next we have Inara. . . . what happened to Inara? She should be outwitting Mal, not going from nervous wreck to twisting around his finger. At the very least she should be giving the appearance of being in control. She's Inara! She's a highly trained Companion.
Poor Book got robbed in the screen time department--what the (much Mandarin cursing involving frogs and aunts here) was that all about? And did anybody else get a Willie Nelson vibe from Book? Maybe I'm just weird. On the upside, Ron Glass did a great job.
I've never understood why Reavers don't kill, rape and eat EACH OTHER. But if they did, they couldn't fly spaceships, I suppose, and then where would the story be?


On the other hand, some great things happened, and it was still far better than anything else I've seen in a theater in the past few years:

I hated some of the more extreme surprises, BUT. . . .do they or do they not make the story stronger and easier to believe? I'm thinking of Wash's moment near the end, for instance. I didn't like it, but maybe it's good that Whedon was willing to be brutal enough to rub it in my face anyway.
Jewel doesn't seem to get much credit for Kaylee in the film, but I thought she was great.
Jayne is Jayne, and I could watch Baldwin play Jayne all day.
We still see glimpses of our beloved Captain Tightpants (as my wife calls him.) Not to spoil too much, but when The Operative makes his grand gesture and says "I am not here to harm you, I am unarmed . . ." and Mal interrupts with "GOOD!" you know what's about to happen, and by God, it happens. That's a great moment. That's what I think Fillion was talking about when he said he was channeling Han Solo. The REAL Solo shoots first. So does Captain Tightpants.
River's madness is well-depicted here. I should have expected that since it was so well done on the series, but it's nice. A lesser group would have thrown it in there and let it lay.
The cruddy fighting and gunplay. . . . well, yes and no. Someone said the series had better gun-handling. I don't buy that. Watch "War Stories" if you need to--Zoe actually leaps into a forward roll, comes out of it and stands back up, awkwardly draws two huge pistols from two shoulder holsters, aims and fires--all with her opponents standing there five feet away, armed, and apparently dumbfounded. Crappy gun-handling was just something I was willing to accept. Whedon hates guns and fighting (or so he says, anyway.)
I don't believe The Operative is a simple retelling of Jubal Early. No way. The Operative is a fairy tale about the dangers of absolute, blind belief. I see him more as an illustration of where Book comes from; they're the same steel with different tempers. Jubal was the kind of sadist The Operative couldn't be. Jubal would never have given that final order. Ever. He's incapable of it. Jubal would have said the lines about how what he does is evil, but it has to be done, but he doesn't really believe that. It's his excuse to inflict pain and control people.
I thoght the space battles were actually very cool.
I was impressed with the way Whedon could have The Operative foiled a few times (surely that's not a spoiler, right?) and never lose his menacing relentlessness. It would have been easy to make him comic relief and turn him into Colonel Decker, which has been the sad fate of many a promising villain.

Kaylee
October 1, 2005, 10:27 AM
esp. out here on the real rim of the real 'verse

You know, here I've been envying you that for months and you have to go rub it in. Ya gorram bear-chasin' pioneer, you. :neener:

As to the movie.. it seemed to be missing something from the series, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet. Some of the warmth seems to be missing, but it could be anything from film color vs TV to more money for effects to the actors knowing the spoilers and some of it coming out in their acting, I dunno. It just seemed... off a little somehow.

Nonetheless, no one in the theater uttered a single word as we filed out. It was a small group, so mostly Firefly fans.... and everyone was awful shell-shocked, as you might imagine.

To the arms -- I think their extra budget helped here, making things a little less immediately recognizable. The revolver River picks up in the bar scene's a good example. And Loaded -- Mal's is a custom piece. There's more detail in the "Guns of Firefly" thread and some of the other forums out there. Basically, there's a little Taurus snubbie burried under all that old-westernized stuff. Must've made filming his gunfight scenes a pain in the tuckus. Fire five shots, take the gun apart, reload, put gun back together, repeat....

And yeah, it don't hit you over the head with the message. No biggie.

Don Gwinn
October 1, 2005, 10:46 AM
My wife and I talked over the colors and warmth. I don't think it was an accident of film at all. If you listen to the commentaries on "The Train Job," Whedon and Minear talk about having to write that episode over one weekend to be the new beginning of the series because the network didn't want to run the pilot.

Specifically, they said they always intended Mal to be dark and lonely and gradually drawn out, with his only real emotional content being his loyalty to his crew. More or less exactly how he is in the movie. And in the film, the rest of the crew hasn't really gelled yet either. It's basically Wash, Zoe, Jayne and Kaylee together, with River and Simon along for the ride and Inara and Book off plying their trades.

The network nixed that and demanded that the captain be more lighthearted, so that's what they did. I think they did the dark stuff in this one and now they've earned the real warmth that the series had. If this one makes money and the trilogy gets made, expect the warmer golden light and many shades of browns and reds on Serenity to return.

ckyllo
October 1, 2005, 12:29 PM
i had seen the series (got the DVD). went with a friend that had never heard of firefly. both of us enjoyed the movie greatly. after the movie i was asked questions about some of the inside referances. tommorow i am dropping off the DVD set to a new fan.


watching river open several cans of whoop a$$ was great and the (spoiler) she beats jayne twice was great.

mals rifle looked like a ar-18 with a some add ons to it.

it was the most entertaining movie that I have scene in a long time.

Souris
October 1, 2005, 12:52 PM
I saw it last night. I have not seen the series. I watched it with my wife and Mother in law.

I really liked the movie. Some of the plot seemed condensed. I felt that they did what they could with the time they had but if they Knew that there would be a sequel may be they could have spread some of the development out some. I liked the Win 1897 take down shot gun with the funky scope.
I didn't like the fact that anytime someone handled a weapon they had their finger on the trigger. I thought it was well worth the money I spent to watch it and will probably buy the DVD.

I am going to start watching the series today.

My MIL and I have differing political views and often discuss them. She accepts that I am wrong and wont change and likewise. We do have some good discussions. We BOTH really enjoyed the movie. My wife thought it was ok but it was more intense than she thought that it would be.

rbmcmjr
October 1, 2005, 01:54 PM
# Poor Book got robbed in the screen time department--what the (much Mandarin cursing involving frogs and aunts here) was that all about? And did anybody else get a Willie Nelson vibe from Book? Maybe I'm just weird. On the upside, Ron Glass did a great job.

As I understand it, Ron Glass had "prior commitments" that prevented him from having a larger role. Too bad, really.

I could have done without the comic book hand-to-hand sequences, but overall it is a very entertaining movie.

Rick

mattf7184
October 1, 2005, 02:42 PM
, what Book was before he was a Shepherd, etc. all get answered in this film

Saw the movie but I missed this one. I didnt know they said what he really was. What was he?

Boss Spearman
October 1, 2005, 02:47 PM
They did not reveal what Book was. Mal asked again, and Book declined to answer. It's still speculation at this point. I think he was an operative.

Justin
October 1, 2005, 02:55 PM
Be warned, the link goes to an article with big time spoilers.

Reason online has a pretty good article (http://www.reason.com/hod/js093005.shtml) about Serenity.

Firethorn
October 1, 2005, 03:03 PM
Agreed. I loved the movie. Probably going to end up buying it on DVD as soon as it comes out. Even considering watching it again. And if I do, it'll be the first time I pay to watch the same movie again.

As for the libertarian cant, it was minor. It does promote a heavy suspicion of government, and questions government's intrusion into where it isn't wanted.

Reavers, well, who knows. I have a feeling in 20 years or so(don't think the reavers can last much longer than that, what with their tendancy to run around with unshielded reactors), that there'll be archelogical digs and such by strong-stomached individuals to figure out reaver reactions, social structures, etc.

If nothing else, maybe other reavers don't 'taste' right.

Warren
October 1, 2005, 03:03 PM
SOME SPOLIAGE





I don't know if I'm as enthralled with Firefly/Serenity now.

Or should I say: River the Reaver Slayer?

Petite girl/woman kills human flesh eating monsters with medievalish weaponry, while her plucky back-up team exchanges wisecracks. Hmmm, where have we seen that before?

Only these monsters live in space, that is upstairs instead of downstairs in the sewers and as a twist the monsters use wooden stakes on the heroes rather than the other way round.

Whedon said there were no aliens in this 'verse, but what the hell is River? She ain't human, she was once but now she is a killing machine that can read minds. ***?!

If at the beginning of the TV series I was told that it was all a leadup to SpaceBuffy I would not have bothered to watch it.

I feel a bit cheated.

Warren
October 1, 2005, 03:06 PM
Reason online has a pretty good article about Serenity.


Justin, that link leads to a thread about some idiot Brit kid.

Justin
October 1, 2005, 03:21 PM
Oops.

I use computers very good.


Link is now fixed.

Firethorn
October 1, 2005, 03:24 PM
On the proto-buffy comment: I happened to like that scene! From other comments, most people liked it.

Warning: spoilers!



River is a messed up proto-uber operative. She was selected on the basis of being psychic. Physically we know that she was in ballet class, and apparently showing promise. Mentally we know that they primarily programmed her during dream states, leaving her waking hours available for combat training. She was 'their most promising test subject', but had problems(said preperation driving her completely bonkers).

Ravoners are radiation poisoned raving psychos. Untrained, undisciplined.

Presumably they broadcast their intentions loud and clear(why she initially had so many problems around them). Thus, she effectivly has another sense telling her where all of them are, and what their intentions/impending actions are. Basically a jedi light, but with more killing.

Perfectly acceptable, given intrasystem travel taking days, not months, 50 habitable planets/moons in a single system, etc.

edit: Oh, and to make it perfectly clear, given Ravoners' tendancy for self-mutilation(including radiation), they're probably not acting at the peak of human physicality either. Sure, 100% of what they have, but not what a healthy human can do releasing the limits.

Justin
October 1, 2005, 03:30 PM
They also hinted at River's extraordinary combat abilities in the series more than once.

She attacked Jayne with a knife in one episode, and took out a bunch of Niska's goons in another.

"No power in the 'verse can stop me."

Warren
October 1, 2005, 03:44 PM
On the proto-buffy comment: I happened to like that scene! From other comments, most people liked it.

The scene was well done and it made sense given the reality of the story. It was also better choreographed than any given Buffy fight scene but it is ultimately the same thing.

And I never said Reavers were aliens. I said, in so many words, that they were vampires.

Warren
October 1, 2005, 03:46 PM
They also hinted at River's extraordinary combat abilities in the series more than once.

Yes, I know. However at the time I watched that ep on broadcast and later on DVD I had not ever seen an ep of Buffy so I did not make the connection.

cordex
October 1, 2005, 04:22 PM
It was a good movie, but I can't forgive Joss for what he did to one of my favorite characters.

Thus, a Washout.

Hobie
October 1, 2005, 04:29 PM
Please note that the two major languages are Chinese and American English. You figure out WHY. Note that the "national language" is CHINESE. ;) I find it heartening that Libertarians (and I agree that the protagonists are such) have a fan base. This is one way to change the hearts and minds of the young.

Strings
October 1, 2005, 05:05 PM
---*SPOILERS*---















Yes, you COULD see River as a "Buffy in Space". However, I think it is a bit different:

1) River wasn't "created to fight Reavers". She was programmed by government scientists, who were probably just seeing how far they could go with her full potential.

2)The premis of the overall story (taking the movie as just another episode of the series) doesn't concentrate on RIver, but rather the crew as a whole. Now, you could argue that later seasons of Buffy did the same, but not to the same extent...

3)The Reavers themselves are explained in the movie as a relatvly short-lived occurance, whereas the Vampires of Buffy are probably gonna be around for the foreseeable future...

There were some other interesting little tidbits:

River's mental instability was magnified by knowing "the Secret of Miranda". Now that this has been publicised, she's got a more even keel. She's still an unhinged teenager, but she's got a little more control...

What happened to Wash, to me, was more to allow more growth for Zoe. Hardcore killer to loving wife to broken hearted killer to?

They never DID say what Book had been, but I have to agree with "Operative", and I'd bet his Ident Card gave similar info to the Opertive's handprint in the film. Something tells me that Book and the Operative would've had an interesting little discussion, had they been permitted...

And are Mal and Inara FINALLY going to get together, or what? That's the obvious direction, but Joss isn't known for doing the obvious...

Don Gwinn
October 1, 2005, 05:28 PM
I hadn't heard about Ron Glass having other commitments. That makes me wonder whether there was an external reason why Wash had to be the one to die. I want to believe!

If you watched the series carefully, you probably had a good idea what River's value to the Alliance would be. The crew speculated several times that she must have been intended to be some kind of psychic assassin.

And she TOLD Jayne she could kill him with her brain. :D Besides, she's a ship. She had a complicated childhood.

The longer I think about this movie, the less I mind the small things I mentioned. I think I just spent too much time trying to compare it to the TV show. Why do that?

Warren
October 1, 2005, 05:33 PM
BIG SPOILER! Though iffn you just read Don's post it is to late


That makes me wonder whether there was an external reason why Wash had to be the one to die.

He died cause Zoe was likely the happiest person onboard Serenity, now she's not. If Kaylee had a super-sweetie he would have died or her.

If Jayne had a puppy it would have been eaten, raped, and killed by a Retreaver.

Warren
October 1, 2005, 05:35 PM
Your points are valid, it is just that Whedon likes this warrior princess thing a bit too much and he should try something new.

I'm suprised that in Toy Story Bo Peep didn't go all Jackie Chan on the other toys.

Justin
October 1, 2005, 05:39 PM
Ha!

Most artists, it seems, tend to find a pattern early on that works for them and stick with it. Spielberg is always big on family ties and connections in his films, James Cameron has big themes where the characters have to save all of humanity, the Wachowski bros. have characters clad in skintight leather having obtuse conversations gleaned from obscure philosophers, and George Lucas writes really bad dialogue.

You go with what works.

Warren
October 1, 2005, 06:09 PM
I wonder what would happen if in the Star Wars movies GL had just set the stage and the plot overarc and let Whedon do the dialogue and the inner thematic arcs.

Warren
October 1, 2005, 06:19 PM
GL would have to draw up a list of characters that were not to be killed. Just to be sure they made it to the end of the movie.

Don Gwinn
October 1, 2005, 08:34 PM
I can just imagine six Jedi igniting lightsabers and striking heroic poses surrounding the evil Sith Lord, who smiles viciously as he begins to untie his cloak. . . only to fall forward with a bang and a wet, sickening splat as the mercenary behind him puts a blaster bolt through his head.

It makes me smile. :D

M-Rex
October 1, 2005, 09:17 PM
You know...you folks talking about this movie is really, really making me want to go see it.

Zundfolge
October 1, 2005, 09:29 PM
I can just imagine six Jedi igniting lightsabers and striking heroic poses surrounding the evil Sith Lord, who smiles viciously as he begins to untie his cloak. . . only to fall forward with a bang and a wet, sickening splat as the mercenary behind him puts a blaster bolt through his head.

Sorry Don,

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/pvp_joss_whedon.jpg

Cosmoline
October 1, 2005, 09:50 PM
[SPOILERS!]






I avoided mentioning the slayings of major characters in the initial review, but it's now been brought up. Frankly I don't think ANYONE has any reason to be surprised. Whedon has been known for killing off major characters since "Buffy." He killed several during that series and continued the tradition by killing, IIRC, four or five during "Angel"--maybe more. It's part of the tradition started by such British science fiction as "Blake's 7," though even after all this time a lot of American fans just can't cope with it. They want their Spocks brought back to life, but it ain't gonna happen and they should just settle down and enjoy the extra drama.

Remember this whenever you get into Whedon's stuff. Any character can die at any time.

roo_ster
October 1, 2005, 10:47 PM
I just finished the DVDs last night with some buddies & sae the flick today.

It was not a disappointment. On the contrary, it was a fine movie in its own right.

TWO major characters eat dust! JW is a ruthless SOB.

JohnKSa
October 1, 2005, 11:01 PM
I was disappointed by only one thing in the movie.

IMO, it was very "stand-alone-ish". That is, it doesn't seem that it left a lot of room for a sequel OR for the return of the series.

Too many of the mysteries and tensions of the original show were solved. The characters are still there (most of them) and still good, but too many of the loose ends that were providing ongoing interest in the show have been tied up.

!!!!BAD SPOILERS!!!!






























-Kaylee and the doctor get together.
-We know about River and pretty much all of her abilities and why she was crazy.
-River is no longer really crazy which removes a lot of tension that flavored the series.
-We know what reavers are and why, and the way I read it, the majority of them were wiped out in the space battle with the Alliance fleet.
-The Alliance's search for River is now ended or at least much reduced in priority.
-Mal and Inara seem to be on much friendlier footing if not quite "together".
-The mystery of Shepherd is hinted at if not solved, and since he's dead it's no longer much of an issue.

What's left?

Good movie, but I think it is definitely the end of Firefly... :(

Warren
October 1, 2005, 11:13 PM
What's left?

The continuation of The War for Independence!

You just know the Alliance Navy was crippled in that fight against the Reavers and with the story of what they did on Miranda out the Indepenents will be able to use that to forment a new stage in the rebellion. With better odds of success with the Navy limping like it is.

JohnKSa
October 1, 2005, 11:20 PM
The continuation of The War for Independence!That might be an idea for a spinoff series, but it's not really a continuation of anything since Serenity was more concerned with staying out of trouble and below the radar than trying to fight the Alliance.

Cosmoline
October 2, 2005, 12:11 AM
COMPLETELY FULL OF SPOILERS AT THIS POINT





That's a really good point. I really think the quest for the hidden planet would have a two season arc at least. Whedon has indicated he's open to a sequel or more TV shows, but he didn't leave anything so loose as to require one.

Initial box office estimates from Friday are 3.9 million. That's second to the star vehicle "Flightplan" at 4.4 in its second week, but "Serenity" is playing on a lot fewer screens. If it builds over Sat. and Sunday and keeps a steady flow for a few weeks it should be set to clear out over $75 million in domestic and international. The budget was under $40 and they've kept advertising and print runs very low, so that's plenty. The reviews have been very positive and it should have good legs to run and run on word of mouth just like the DVD of the series did.

LawDog
October 2, 2005, 12:30 AM
Just saw it.

Wow.

Just...

...wow.

LawDog

Warren
October 2, 2005, 01:50 AM
That might be an idea for a spinoff series, but it's not really a continuation of anything since Serenity was more concerned with staying out of trouble and below the radar than trying to fight the Alliance.

Mal and Zoe have never given up the cause, they just stopped fighting. The Independents have a chance I think they would go for it and I don't see Mal and Zoe staying out of the fight.

It is the next logical step. They have no place to go to ground and crime was not paying well anyway. They've run and run and run, now their tormenter has a weakness it is time to turn around and hit back.

Warren
October 2, 2005, 01:53 AM
I wrote the following on another message board..................

I was complaining that Whedon was plagerizing himself with the Warrior
Goddess theme taking it from Buffy and placing it in Serenity.


Now I realize he perfected it. Buffy was practice. Serenity is a
masterwork.

I'm going to see it again tommorrow.


The film was so powerful it took a whole day to seep through my thick skull.

JohnKSa
October 2, 2005, 02:12 AM
Here2learn,

I guess, but even if you have the fight against the Alliance, there's still no getting around that fact that so much of what made the series what it was doesn't exist any longer.

The movie was a finisher IMO. I can't imagine that Whedon couldn't have done WAY better than that if he wanted to push for the series continuation or even for a sequel movie.

Warren
October 2, 2005, 02:22 AM
He may be looking to finish the Firefly story in a few movies rather than 6-7 seasons of a TV show he did not get.

We won't know until we know.


I do hope in a deep and meaningful way that if Serenity is a big success the idiots who s-canned the show are somehow harmed by the success. I don't know how, just that they are.

Kurush
October 2, 2005, 02:35 AM
I just got back from the theater a couple hours ago. It was epochal. This is the first defining movie of the internet cypherpunk libertarian generation. I know I sound crazy but I'm sure it's true.

The guns: I loved the navy revolver and the leverguns.

Cobb's gatling gun or whatever was a bit fishy. I never really got a good look at it but it didn't seem to have the right parts in the right places.

That one rifle, it looked like an SVD with a M4-style carbon fiber handguard and a teflon M16 mag. It would have been OK to take the wood off, but the carbon and teflon was too much, it looked like a toy.

ETA: I agree with other posters that River was too much of at least a potential deus ex machina. But if you think about it her over-the-top fighting skills didn't really change things that much. If there is a sequel they will need to get her kidnapped or something so the action scenes don't devolve into "river, sic em!"

Strings
October 2, 2005, 02:49 AM
I have to question the "River, sic 'em" concept. Use her as early warning, sure. But I think part of her "combat goddess" thing was the rage at Simon being shot (and making a fairly good attempt at dying). However, I COULD see MAl telling some yahoo in a bar, threatening Simon "you REALLY don't want to do that, son. It'll get messy"... :D

hso
October 2, 2005, 03:36 AM
If you haven't seen the series and you're thinking about seeing the film.

See the movie first.

Having seen the series via DVD I was rather fond of Wash. I "wish" he hadn't been killed, but what I very much dislike was the bungled way the character was handled in the movie before they killed him. For the death to have value the character has to be developed well enough for us to identify with and invest in. The film's treatment of Wash seemed flat and pushed him into the wallpaper. Did they get a bad case of movie-stupids and think that we were all Firefly fans and were already invested in Wash or were they "feeling bad" about snuffing him and just refused to put life into the character? The "move Wash" seemed flat and lifeless. The "series Wash" was lively and passionate.

And what was with that stupid He Man harness they had him wearing???
:banghead:

Picking nits from the dead horse. I think the idea of hybridizing firearms is fine as long as it makes sense. "On the rim" you might expect to have trouble getting new firearms, especially after a war, and even more so if the "rim" was the looser. So older weapons enhanced with optics and lasers is great. You get the gun you can and mount the gear you can to make it better. Fine. But the gear should make since for the type of weapon. Long range optics for long range guns. Short range optics for short range guns. I don't care if an "antique" shotty has a scope on it as long as it's a CQC scope instead of some 9x tube.

Warren
October 2, 2005, 03:43 AM
And what was with that stupid He Man harness they had him wearing???

That was the actor's call. He wanted something more comfortable than what he wore on the series but it still had to look like a working outfit so that is what was designed.

In photo close-ups there is a company patch on the left sleeve which is probably the spaceline he used to work for. [/fan-boy trivia]

Cosmoline
October 2, 2005, 04:08 AM
I kinda liked his getup. They looked like tactical suspenders. In fact I kept thinking about how cool it would be to have tactical suspenders.

Kaylee
October 2, 2005, 11:07 AM
To those interested, check out the "Visual Companion" tothe movie that just came out. It has a fairly long interview with Mr. Whedon, which has some interesting background.

What especially caught my interest was that Mr. Whedon ain't any kind of libertarian at all, in fact he particularly says that he disagrees with most everything that comes out of Mal's mouth. The fact that that man can make a show that some can call an "ideological" movie for an ideology he doesn't agree with, and do it well -- heck, I'm impressed. I couldn't write a good "Socialism is glorious" movie, I know that for certain sure.

He also mentions his own angst at having to tie up so many loose ends in one movie, but explains something to the effect of "you make a movie that leaves a lot of room for a sequel, you make it much less likely you'll get a sequel to do it in" or somesuch.

Finally.. *heh* .. the gun designs. There's some early production drawings of some of the arms. Frankly, they stink. The man seriously needs a new prop master who knows which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.

TexasRifleman
October 2, 2005, 12:12 PM
From a different angle maybe...

I had never heard of Firefly at all, and though I did watch a few Buffy episodes when it came out, I didn't know this movie was done by the same guy.

So, I went in totally blind to all the background info and frankly, I'm glad I did.

I enjoyed the movie very much. I think if I'd seen DVDs or had a lot of background info I would have spent too much time comparing and contrasting rather than just enjoying the flick.

Now that I've seen the movie, I might watch the Firefly series, but since it appears to have a one season lifespan not sure I'll even do that.

Overall it was a very good movie, one of the best I've seen in a long time.

Flyboy
October 2, 2005, 01:35 PM
Now that I've seen the movie, I might watch the Firefly series, but since it appears to have a one season lifespan not sure I'll even do that.
Don't let the short lifespan fool you; it's neither Joss Whedon's fault nor the show's fault it was cancelled. It ran on FOX, who did their usual bang-up job. Shifting time-slots, episodes out-of-order, the works. It would have succeeded on a real network.

Don Gwinn
October 2, 2005, 03:06 PM
Here2Learn, it's interesting. I think the same has been happening to me over the last two days. The more I think about the way Wash died, the more convinced I am that it was the only thing that made the final stand in the hallway watchable. At times I genuinely believed this movie was going to be the end of everything, and nobody was getting out alive. When Zoe was getting cut and Jayne got shot, I believed they were dead. I thought some of the characters might make it out, but I believed they were dead and gone. And I realize now that many films have those heroic stands in them, but most of them are utterly unbelievable even if you want to suspend disbelief. You KNOW they're all coming out of it. When someone gets shot in the shoulder, you KNOW that at worst he'll have a sling on at the end of the movie; he might punch somebody and make a joke about how it hurts his shoulder.

After Wash was brutally, senselessly, totally annihilated, all bets were off. Anything could happen to anyone. It was a little closer to the real world. Great storytelling!

(I did finally figure out what really bothered me about that last stand, though. Why make a stand in front of the blast doors that can apparently stop the Reavers completely if it's that important that they not get through to Mal? If you don't expect to survive anyway, I mean . . . . why not close the blast doors between you and the Reavers and wait to see if they find a way through, THEN you can make your final stand if you have to do it? Well, because that's not a good story, of course, but I can't make my brain stop.)

Don Gwinn
October 2, 2005, 03:09 PM
Oh, and I expect the money to be there. Imagine the DVD sales alone on this! Expect them to far outstrip the theater receipts. How many series DVD sets did they sell at almost $40 a pop? That was a big decision for me; I haven't spent that kind of money on a DVD set before or since. It's the only TV series DVD set I own.
Now they're going to sell Serenity DVDs for, what, $15-$19? They won't press enough.

Zundfolge
October 2, 2005, 05:44 PM
The movie was a finisher IMO. I can't imagine that Whedon couldn't have done WAY better than that if he wanted to push for the series continuation or even for a sequel movie.

Thing is Whedon has a deal to do three Firefly movies ... so he's got two more to go.


TWO major characters eat dust! JW is a ruthless SOB.
I think both Shepherd Book and Wash where killed because the actors could not commit to doing more then one movie (and judging from how little camera time each got, I'm not sure they had time to do even one movie).

I'm most disappointed in the death of Shepherd Book because his mysterious past would have been good for a lot of interesting story lines.

Strings
October 2, 2005, 05:51 PM
Ummm... there's nothing to say Book's mysterious past WON'T be the subject of a further story. Maybe somebody from his past comes hunting him, and they target the crew as friends of his?

O.F.Fascist
October 2, 2005, 08:23 PM
Just got back from seeing it, wow that was a great movie.

Pretty much the best movie I've seen all year.

Dr.Rob
October 2, 2005, 10:01 PM
I fully enjoyed it, though there was a slight feeling of... 'well if you haven't seen the series' that ran through my head.

Still, a bang up shoot 'em up view of the big dark future where a handful of desperate types try to make it all right...

That isn't 'libretatrian' that's pure Hollywood, and we love it.

on Wash and Book? You can't really think ALL the actors in the film can sit back and wait on Whedon and Universal or Fox to pony up the $$ for the 'next installment' however it appears. I've heard on many discussion boards the 'magic number' for Serenity is 80 million dollars.

I liked it enough that I just MIGHT see it again this week.

But here's a gun-related bit... WHY ditch the functioning laser cannon... I mean hell, guns sell same as cows... fella might make a fair price on the open market now with all this reaver fear floatin' on high on all channels. Bigger guns mean bigger profits... right? Right?

And did anyone else note Mr. Universe's lady robot looked an awful lot like Kaylee?

Hmmmmm.

OK... gonna go watch the DVDs again.

I DID miss the song not being there at the end.

Don Gwinn
October 2, 2005, 10:22 PM
Yeah, not having The Song hurt me. I think Whedon was very consciously trying to set the film apart from the series. I checked and it's not on the soundtrack, either. I'm sure you can get MP3 versions for free on the internet in a dozen places, and since Whedon's not selling it, I might download it.

I've never understood the ditching of valuable spoils of war--in Objects in Space, they have Jubal Early's truly awesome little ship right there for the taking after they dispose of him. You'd think if nothing else Jayne would say "Gorramit, I'll fly the dang thing to the next moon!" Nope; they leave it drifting. Maybe Early activated a secret subroutine that flew the ship to a homing beacon in his suit and he's after them right now.

Hey, that's not bad!

Hardware
October 2, 2005, 10:54 PM
For those grousing about the ballad of Serenity not being in the movie, if you sit through the credits there is a guitar instrumental version at the end of the credit.

I have the ballad of Serenity in MP3 format if anyone needs it, PM me.

JohnKSa
October 2, 2005, 11:01 PM
And did anyone else note Mr. Universe's lady robot looked an awful lot like Kaylee?YES. In fact, I thought it was played by Kaylee with different hair until the closeup at the end of the movie.WHY ditch the functioning laser cannonI'll bet it's not legal...

Borachon
October 2, 2005, 11:15 PM
Movie was great.

I'm still not satisfied though.


When they are sitting around the campfire, Jayne picks up a guitar. In the theatre, my buddy and I held our breath...waiting for the words to come from Jayne's mouth.

Instead, they cut away to another scene.

What words did we expect from his mouth?

Simply the most ego-stroking Jaynefest song ever....and admit it, it would have been funny to hear Jayne begin singing a song about himself even if the audience had never heard it before.



"The Man they call Jayne."

He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.


Our Jayne saw the mudders' backs breakin'.
He saw the mudders'lament.
And he saw the Magistrate takin'
every dollar and leavin' five cents.
So he said "You can't do that to my people."
He said "You can't crush them under your heel."
So Jayne strapped on his hat
and in 5 seconds flat
stole everythin' Boss Higgins had to steal.


He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.


Now here is what separates heroes
from common folk like you and I.
The man they call Jayne
he turned 'round his plane
and let that money hit sky.


He dropped it onto our houses
he dropped it into our yards.
The man they called Jayne
he stole away our pain
and headed out for the stars!


Here we go!


He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne."

All Proceeds from this song go to the Mudders for a Better Tomorrow! :D

ZeroX
October 2, 2005, 11:19 PM
Movie was great.

I'm still not satisfied though.


When they are sitting around the campfire, Jayne picks up a guitar. In the theatre, my buddy and I held our breath...waiting for the words to come from Jayne's mouth.

Instead, they cut away to another scene.

What words did we expect from his mouth?

Simply the most ego-stroking Jaynefest song ever....and admit it, it would have been funny to hear Jayne begin singing a song about himself even if the audience had never heard it before.



"The Man they call Jayne."

He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.


Our Jayne saw the mudders' backs breakin'.
He saw the mudders'lament.
And he saw the Magistrate takin'
every dollar and leavin' five cents.
So he said "You can't do that to my people."
He said "You can't crush them under your heel."
So Jayne strapped on his hat
and in 5 seconds flat
stole everythin' Boss Higgins had to steal.


He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.


Now here is what separates heroes
from common folk like you and I.
The man they call Jayne
he turned 'round his plane
and let that money hit sky.


He dropped it onto our houses
he dropped it into our yards.
The man they called Jayne
he stole away our pain
and headed out for the stars!


Here we go!


He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne."

All Proceeds from this song go the the Mudders for a Better Tomorrow!

Wait for the deleted scenes, I bet.

Borachon
October 2, 2005, 11:25 PM
Wait for the deleted scenes, I bet.

Suddenly...Hope flairs anew!


In fact, I'll bet there are a LOT of great deleted scenes from this movie. A couple more inside jokes to the Fans would be cool too.

JohnKSa
October 2, 2005, 11:26 PM
Zerox,

You know that there is a hidden feature on Disk 4 of the season set that has Jayne singing that song, right?

Rob1035
October 3, 2005, 12:19 AM
Finally saw the film after loving the series, and it was excellent. While there might be a few niggles here and there, overall, it is easily one of the best things to come to the bigscreen in a few years IMHO. Its a scifi, but its believable, it has action, but it doesnt drown itself in it; it has drama to no end, but it doesnt drag on and on....

I will go see it again ASAP, and get ready to buy the DVD. I really hope the movie does well enough to continue as a sequel (trilogy?); its one of those things that I like it so much, I'd rather it fizzle out after a long run, and have a lot of shows, movies, etc, than just have the one great season and the one great movie. I need more!

Zundfolge
October 3, 2005, 12:59 AM
But here's a gun-related bit... WHY ditch the functioning laser cannon... I mean hell, guns sell same as cows... fella might make a fair price on the open market now with all this reaver fear floatin' on high on all channels. Bigger guns mean bigger profits... right? Right?
I'm thinking its because the repair and cleanup of Serenity was being overseen by Alliance personell ... in particular the assassin (or I guess former assassin).

Cosmoline
October 3, 2005, 01:02 AM
I'll bet it's not legal...

Exactly. They make their $$ by staying just on one side of the line. Esp. when moving illegal cows and such they need to avoid attracting attention.

JShirley
October 3, 2005, 01:36 AM
I finally realized that River is being hunted not for what she is, but for what she knows.

I never could figure out why the Alliance was so keen to find a mere telepath, even one with advanced combat skills...

John

Justin
October 3, 2005, 01:43 AM
Regarding the death of Wash, I have to say, it was a really, really risky thing for Whedon to do. Most film makers wouldn't dream of taking a character who already had somewhere around 14 hours of character development and story arc involvement and then simply kill them off for no good reason.

Wash's death was without meaning, it wasn't heroic, or poignant or special in any way. He was simply there, and then dead.

I have never, in my life seen a theater packed to capacity, practically to a person, respond in exactly the same way: everyone gasped and then nothing; dead silence. Not even a plastic candy bag being rustled.

Don's right, Wash's senseless death was a smack in the face to every audience member. From that point on, I fully expected to see at least another character die.

Justin
October 3, 2005, 01:44 AM
And did anyone else note Mr. Universe's lady robot looked an awful lot like Kaylee?

Wishful thinking? ;)

And yes, I had the same thought.

ZeroX
October 3, 2005, 02:15 AM
Apparently, Joss just likes to kill off characters. He did it a lot in Buffy and Angel, it seems. I liked it though, it really made you think that maybe no one was going to get out of this one. I'm surprised Zoe made it.

wQuay
October 3, 2005, 02:17 AM
I was a little disappointed. The show had a pretty relaxed pace, and it felt like a lot of material was crammed into the length of the movie. The initial fighting between Simon and the Captain didn't fit too well with the "happy little family" we had going at the end of the show. I also wasn't too impressed with the plot. They went through all that just to broadcast a message? Not quite the same as blowing up the Death Star.

Anyway, it was still Firefly. The best thing that could happen is that the show continues where it left off, with all the characters intact.

Warren
October 3, 2005, 02:20 AM
Tudyk pitched the idea of Wash's death, had the series gone on Wash would have survived only into the 2nd season.

In an interview Tudyk said he liked the way Wash went out.

And it was not senseless:

1. It amped up the drama. No character is safe. I've never gone through shock, anger, denial, mourning and acceptance for any other fictional character ever.

2. Wash is redundant. With River mostly cured she, with her reflexes and intelligence, is the best choice to be the pilot. In fact she will be the best pilot ever told about.

3. If the next movie concerns Serenity and crew's part in the revival of the galactic Civil War it is thematically best that Zoe has no distractions. She can now concentrate on keeping her captain alive. Woe to any who get in her path from here on in.

Jay Kominek
October 3, 2005, 02:32 AM
Poor Book got robbed in the screen time department--what the (much Mandarin cursing involving frogs and aunts here) was that all about? Why he wasn't part of the crew is covered in the three-issue comic book series. I'll be happy to describe the brief events to anyone sending me a private message. Or you can probably find it online. You can probably even find scans of the comics themselves online.

Firethorn
October 3, 2005, 02:53 AM
Don's right, Wash's senseless death was a smack in the face to every audience member. From that point on, I fully expected to see at least another character die.

And I feel that was exactly why it was done. Until that happened, you had the feeling that nothing could really happen to the core crew, that it would turn out all right in the end. It made you wonder, scared, etc... I know Book was respected, and sorta close to the crew, but he wasn't traveling with them. And the sheer suddeness was appropriate, I feel. Makes it more like real combat.

JJpdxpinkpistols
October 3, 2005, 03:05 AM
Ok..

Went to see this back on May 26th, and Chris Buchanan -- executive producer for Mutant Enemy, Joss' partner in crime -- introduced the film, and then stayed for a Q/A afterwards. It seems that Alan Tudyk (Wash) was scheduled to intruduce the movie, but he got cast in Spamalot on Broadway, and that was gonna be taking up his time. He also was Sonny in I Robot, and has a promising film career. He will do fine.

Also per buchanan, Jayne DOES sing in the movie, or *did*. He is not singing "The Hero of Canton" but rather a song he and Joss wrote (If you wonder if joss can write songs, Check out the Buffy Episode "once More with Feeling".) Jayne's fireside singin' was cut, and may very well be included in the DVD. the audience was BEGGING for it to be on the DVD. Mister Baldwin actually does play, and sings rather well.

Ron Glass (the good Shepard) teaches a lot in an acting school, and didn't wanna do the movie cuz he got killed. Oddly, tho, Ron *IS* signed for 2 more movies.

Joss does NOT have a 3 movie SERENITY deal, but has a 3 picture deal with Universal that may or may not be serenity movies. Joss' next movie is Wonder Woman. If you are interested, check out http://www.whedonesque.com/

Oh, and I vote is that Book is a retired Companion.

Strings
October 3, 2005, 04:30 AM
oddly enough, there are only three other times in any fictional story I've ever seen a character's death handled the same way as Wash's: the deaths of Ms Calender and Tara in Buffy, and the death of Cedric Diggory in the fourth Harry Potter. All three were sudden, fairly senseless, and VERY abrupt: kinda like in real life. And all three had you going "wait a sec... what the..."

joedimaster
October 3, 2005, 05:33 AM
Hello there.
I'm new on these boards - got linked over here from some of the Firefly/Serenity stuff, and it looks like I'll actually like this venue much better. I'm sure I'll have much to say as time goes on, but two things for now:
First, shameless begging that everyone see the movie. Especially going back next weekend - it's a strong second weekend the producers are counting on.
Second, I'm a big gun supporter, but I know much more on the political side than the actual technical gun knowledge side, so I have a question - does anyone know if the gun that River uses most in the movie (the one she steals from Jayne) is anything realistic, or is it a totally made-up prop thing? There are plenty of good shots of it for identification purposes - it's that sort of chunky black pistol. I fear it may not be based on anything real, but I quite like it and am curious.
Thanks much, and drag everyone you know to the movie.

Koobuh
October 3, 2005, 06:14 AM
"They went through all that just to broadcast a message?"

Not just any message. This was information that the Alliance top brass had decided was so important to keep secret, that they were willing to kill the crew of Serenity and any/everyone they had contact with or ties to.
The information is the truth behind not only the deaths of millions of innocent people, but the emergence of the most wantonly evil force in the galaxy, the Reavers, who have brutally slain thousands more.
Book being killed on the assassin's orders was the impetus for even going to Miranda; the captain had planned to wait things out in hiding, and as with everything else from then on, it forced his hand to that end.

Also, Joss made darn sure in this movie that we KNEW the captain was the principled, compassionate type- one who lives and dies for freedom and truth. Knowing what he knew, he was willing to die if it meant the truth got out.

Kaylee
October 3, 2005, 08:46 AM
Welcome joedimaster!

As to the pistol -- would you mind posting a picture? The one I have is two dark to really make out much detail. The grip looks like a 1911 with a magwell attached. The slide area is all dark in the picture I have and it's hard to see -- the front part looks vaguly like a railed 1911 with some kinda scopeless scope mount on it. The rear I can't see.

So I suppose that means I'm guessing gussied up 1911. Jayne has good taste. :)

I see the one she grabs in the bar -- looks like a smith and wesson J-frame of some kind with a LOT of sawing off old parts and attaching new ones. Pretty cool. :)

Risasi
October 3, 2005, 09:53 AM
Saw it twice over the weekend. I was satisifed. I thought it was a bit hokey at times, and the gunplay really got to me. But I don't take the movie that seriously. I guess I watch it because it is a combination of action, drama, sci-fi and even had a couple horrifying parts to it too, if you're into that. I read through this whole thread and have a couple thoughts:

Here2Learn:

I don't know if I'm as enthralled with Firefly/Serenity now.

Or should I say: River the Reaver Slayer?

Petite girl/woman kills human flesh eating monsters with medievalish weaponry, while her plucky back-up team exchanges wisecracks. Hmmm, where have we seen that before?

I agree, I am getting sick of the whole Jackie Chan style, Jedi-Buffy the Agent Smith Killer. It's getting old, and is never done that well anymore. Fortunately Whedon refrained from doing a five mintue, let's battle a hundred Reavers scene.


Hunter Rose:

Ummm... there's nothing to say Book's mysterious past WON'T be the subject of a further story. Maybe somebody from his past comes hunting him, and they target the crew as friends of his?

Yeah, he could still be around. Similar to Obi Wan. Hey George killed him off because he figured he'd only do one movie. But no, Guiness went the full three episodes.


Justin:

Regarding the death of Wash, I have to say, it was a really, really risky thing for Whedon to do. Most film makers wouldn't dream of taking a character who already had somewhere around 14 hours of character development and story arc involvement and then simply kill them off for no good reason.

Wash's death was without meaning, it wasn't heroic, or poignant or special in any way. He was simply there, and then dead.


What can I say? I'm a psycho. I was happy someone died, I was especially happy Book is gone. I never did like his character, probably because his beliefs are not compatible with mine. So I'll just let that go. I liked Wash though, I had kind of wished it was Gina Torres or the doctor that got whacked. But I've changed my mind;

----------------------

Here's where I would like to see this series go;
I believe Whedon should take a break and let the movie simmer in his mind for the next couple years. Likewise I believe some time should pass in the 'Verse. Perhaps five years or so from this movie, and they should drop us right into the middle of a vicious Alliance war. Just plop us right into it.

1. Here2 learn is correct, River is "too powerful". I would like to see somewhere within this next movie something really, really bad happens. She becomes physically disabled. She can no longer go "Neo" on people. I don't know if it's a lucky bullet smacks her in the spine or what, but this takes care of the "nothing in the "Verse can stop e" problem, and sets up some great drama.

2. At first I was mad Wash died, I thought it should have been Torres. But I realized something. Reynolds and Inara are not going to get it on. Face it. They are just too different. I see Whedon is at a fork, he has to decide if his sotry here is about Malcom Reynolds or if it's about Serenity. This is not like "Buffy", you know she will always be arond in the series. Duh it's named after her. Not so with the Firefly universe. So this is what I would like to see; Reynolds can have some romantic involvement with Inara, but look, it just won't work out. Kill her or have her take off. Torres is the one Reynolds is in love with. Okay? Anyway, if the story is about Serenity kill Reynolds, but not before finding out Zoe is really the one Reynolds would have married. And in the process introduce his child, either by Torres or Inara. Reynolds dies, Torres gets the ship, and raises Reynold's kid. How 'bout them apples?

3. Book is not out, he can be reintroduced via flashbacks, I am thinking both as an old man, and the sort of the younger Darth Vader version of Book, in all his badness. Truly evil though, have him raping, pillaging and killing in all it's glory. That has to be the true story of Book. There can't be another.


So you got that? River hurt, physically disabled, leading to more psychosis from the disturbingly attractive lady. Perhaps not wheelchair bound, that's too Professor X. But someone debilitate her from the now overdone Kung Fu. I'm okay with not hurt enough she can't gunsling.
Introduce the young, evil Book and explain his change of life.
And decide if the story's lead character is Mal or the ship. If it's the ship kill Malcolm and intro his son (or daughter). (Nobody would expect that, even though I just typed it.) If it's Mal the ship has got to be destroyed. They need a new ship anyway. In fact I was a bit disappointed they fixed Serenity.

Radagast
October 3, 2005, 10:54 AM
Thanks guys. I've never seen Firefly, I don't know if it even made it to OZ, but on the strength of this thread I went and saw Serenity tonight. A great waste of a couple of hours.

Ken

Justin
October 3, 2005, 11:22 AM
does anyone know if the gun that River uses most in the movie (the one she steals from Jayne) is anything realistic, or is it a totally made-up prop thing? There are plenty of good shots of it for identification purposes - it's that sort of chunky black pistol.

It looked like one of the STI 1911 pistols to me. But I could be wrong, as I've really, really been jonesing for an STI (http://www.stiguns.com/) lately.

Rob1035
October 3, 2005, 11:47 AM
Maybe I'm confused, but did anyone else notice an extra 'lounge' type room on Serenity in the movie? I never noticed or saw it during the TV show

RavenVT100
October 3, 2005, 12:10 PM
Now we know that among other hacking proclivities, Mr. Universe has also been involved in Indentity Theft of Citibank card holders.

And 20 thousand dollars to complete my robot...my girl robot...

Dr.Rob
October 3, 2005, 02:32 PM
I sort of agree with Justin, once Wash bought it I kind of felt like anybody (except Mal) might get it... esp when they spiked Kaylee. Ouch.

On a 'hmmm note' River throws the med kit BACK through the hatch "to save some lives" and yet when Mal shows back up... no one has been into the med kit, though we know Zoe knows how to patch up a bullet hole. Heck even Jayne proved he could apply some degree of first aid in the early part of the film. That was mildly annoying to have 4 charcters laying there waiting to die/see what happened. I understand everyone was wounded, but Zoe and Jayne were still capable of doing something.

jason10mm
October 3, 2005, 04:38 PM
My guess for future Firefly events is that Zoe is pregnant with Wash's baby and one of Book's young adult kids comes a'callin.

I was initially VERY upset with Wash dying, but since it would be pretty easy to introduce another comic relief character that can also serve as plot extrapolation (Wash's primary job for the writers, along with Simon), this would give Zoe a lot more room to grow. I do think this is probably all the forward movement we will see for Firefly. I can see books and comics having adventures set within the series timeframe, but nothing after the movie till Joss personally takes it up again. But I'm gonna do my best to help them hit that magic 80 million B.O. and see it again this weekend.

As for the firearms, I think they kept the slug guns making those wimpy laser sounds. I wish they would officially decide what the hell those things shoot.v At least the Starship Troopers guys didn't make an appearance :P As for that AAA cannon, all we saw was them taking it off the top of the ship, who knows where it went after that! Though I suppose if Mal wanted a cannon on the Serenity he would have armed it long ago.

Rob1035
October 3, 2005, 04:40 PM
saw it again this afternoon, just too much fun

Carl N. Brown
October 3, 2005, 04:56 PM
I went to post a review of Serenity on the IMDb site.
The IMDb movie data base already has 396 reviews of
Serenity and 8,004 voters rate it 8.6 on a scale of 10.

To think that a few months ago I saw a thread on
The High Road title "Guns of Firefly" and asked myself
Firefly, wasn't that a series I missed on Fox? Thank
you High Road.

---------
Added: never watched "Buffy" or "Angel" so viewed
the fight sequences with River on their own: fighting a
psychic who has combat training? Bad way to die.

Rob1035
October 3, 2005, 04:59 PM
yup, I noticed the very good ratings on IMDB as well, #136 on the top rated list, not too shabby...

$10.1 million for the weekend, how good or bad is that?

ckyllo
October 3, 2005, 05:03 PM
it looks like it came in 2nd place, had a income of $10.1 million. hope it makes the $40 mil mark to get another one made.

ScorpioVI
October 3, 2005, 05:36 PM
New bumper sticker:

Guns don't kill people. Jayne kills people.

Dr.Rob
October 3, 2005, 06:30 PM
Only if they had it comin'... or if he thought they had it comin'... or if he got paid enough... still he don't eat people. :scrutiny:

"Gee, wouldn't it be lucky if we say had some grenades!"

"Please tell me you brought them this time!"

I can't think of the pre-heist scene in Serenity where Jayne is just dripping guns without thinking of some of you... and you know who you are.

Skofnung
October 3, 2005, 07:01 PM
What a great flick. My only quibbles are as follows:

1) Mal not shooting the operative in the face the second time around. That just seemed so... un-Mal like.

2) Simon seemed more "badass" than I would have imagined him when he rescued River.

3) The Reavers looked too much like Uruk-Hai. Not that Uruk-Hai look bad...


All things considered, it is the best movie I have seen in quite some time.
I will go again this week sometime.

joedimaster
October 3, 2005, 09:43 PM
As for the lounge room outside the infirmary someone mentioned, that was one of the most redesigned parts of the ship. The lounge off the dining room was a little different too, I think, but they never spent much time there on the show. What I missed was the passenger dorms, which just didnt really come up.

I'll see if I can find a picture of that gun I mentioned.
Edit - here, this is a bit blurry, but anyway.

Flyboy
October 4, 2005, 01:46 AM
Apparently, Joss just likes to kill off characters. He did it a lot in Buffy and Angel, it seems.
It's not just that he wants to kill characters; yes, a lot of people get dead, and it seems senseless, but it's always a balancing act, a counter to something good happening. In this case, they'd just escaped both the reavers and the Alliance; Wash's life was the price of that victory. If you go back and watch Buffy and Angel, the same thing happens: every victory comes with a price. It keeps things grounded, rather than having the whole world hunky-dorey at the end of the episode.

Also, unless the six or eight of us were all seeing things, Mr. Universe's fembot was none other than Sarah Michelle Gellar. IMDB is telling no tales, though.

ZeroX
October 4, 2005, 03:42 AM
It's not just that he wants to kill characters; yes, a lot of people get dead, and it seems senseless, but it's always a balancing act, a counter to something good happening. In this case, they'd just escaped both the reavers and the Alliance; Wash's life was the price of that victory. If you go back and watch Buffy and Angel, the same thing happens: every victory comes with a price. It keeps things grounded, rather than having the whole world hunky-dorey at the end of the episode.

Also, unless the six or eight of us were all seeing things, Mr. Universe's fembot was none other than Sarah Michelle Gellar. IMDB is telling no tales, though.

Naaaaaahhh.

Rob1035
October 4, 2005, 09:13 AM
i can't find an actress listing for the fembot anywhere, maybe it was a real robot? :cool:

ScorpioVI
October 4, 2005, 01:35 PM
Lenore (fembot) is played by Nectar Rose.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0741592/

raz-0
October 4, 2005, 05:01 PM
I think the pistol is the sp-21 with some bondo on the grip and a cowling attached to the tac-rail.

I'm basing this on some scenes in the movie where you see the gun from the side. But it is hard to see throughout the movie.

Razor
October 5, 2005, 01:50 AM
I posted another pic of River's pistol on pg 10 of the Guns of Firefly (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86039&page=10&pp=25) thread. I'm not sure what it is.

JShirley
October 5, 2005, 02:31 AM
Just watched it again. Maybe better the 2nd time. :)

John

enfield303
October 5, 2005, 10:57 AM
Saw it last night. Bloody WOW!

M-Rex
October 5, 2005, 12:06 PM
I posted another pic of River's pistol on pg 10 of the Guns of Firefly thread. I'm not sure what it is.

It's a 1911 of some sort, with a few doo-dads added to it. In that pic, the safety, slide release, and front barrel bushing are clear.

Justin
October 5, 2005, 03:49 PM
It appears to have a full-length dust cover as well, which is what has me thinking it might be an STI.

wingnutx
October 5, 2005, 03:54 PM
one of Book's young adult kids comes a'callin.

Book has no children, or so he tells both Kayle and a tout for another ship at the beginning of the first episode.

Cosmoline
October 5, 2005, 04:04 PM
I love Jayne's discussion of how he's different from the Reavers because he only kills in self defense. And if he knows the other guy is going to kill him. And if he's being paid. Etc. :D

Rob1035
October 5, 2005, 04:05 PM
I'm with the Book=Operative thing, although I liked the theory about him being an Alliance commander at the Battle of Serenity too...

enfield303
October 5, 2005, 04:18 PM
Where can I find some backstory about Serenity Valley? Anybody got the story on what all happened there?

Cosmoline
October 5, 2005, 04:36 PM
The end of the battle is at the start of the pilot episode. The sense I got was that Mal was holding the line on tactical high ground with everything he had, losing almost all his men, in the hopes that a promised reserve force was about to come. What arrived instead were huge Alliance troop ships.

Strings
October 5, 2005, 04:47 PM
Well... kinda. He hadn't lost all his forces yet, or even most. The feeling I got (from both the included scene, and the deleted) was that they could've won had the Independants' air support showed up. The Indy Generals though, decided to withdraw (and there's some suggestion that right after was when they surrendered), leaving Mal's forces on the ground. For several weeks, without aid of any kind. This is when Mal's faith got lost...

Razor
October 5, 2005, 05:07 PM
Book has no children, or so he tells both Kayle and a tout for another ship at the beginning of the first episode.

Actually, he says that he's not a grandpa....

Strings
October 5, 2005, 05:17 PM
>Actually, he says that he's not a grandpa....<

And that he never married. Hmmm...

Rob1035
October 5, 2005, 05:38 PM
IMHO, in the Pilot, the scene at the end of the battle, which shows Mal looking at the Alliance offensive, with no sound but the sad violin, is easily one of the best scenes I've seen on TV in a long long time. Its right up there with the Phil Collins "Air of the Night" Miami Vice scene...


btw- I just noticed, right before that, Mal kissed a cross on his necklace, so maybe he lost his religious faith, as well as faith in the independant movement?

Strings
October 5, 2005, 06:11 PM
No... he really didn't lose faith in the Independant Movement (although I SERIOUSLY doubt he'll ever trust someone else as a commander). He lost his faith in God, pure and simple. THat's why the semi-antagonistic attitude twords Book...

Rob1035
October 5, 2005, 06:13 PM
that makes sense.

Cosmoline
October 5, 2005, 07:30 PM
Hunter Rose--there's a specific conversation in "Sernity" which implies only Mal and Zoe survived the battle of the people under his command.

Strings
October 5, 2005, 09:55 PM
Hmmm... must've missed that. In the deleted scenes in the boxed set, Simon is looking up the Battle of Serenity, and Zoe mentions the finale...

Hardware
October 5, 2005, 10:14 PM
Book has no children, or so he tells both Kayle and a tout for another ship at the beginning of the first episode.


Actually when Kaylee and a crewman from the ship "Brutus" call him Grandpa Book replies; "I never married." Which doesn't mean he didn't father children.

I know, just give the golden G for geek. :D

Cestus
October 5, 2005, 11:04 PM
You just know the Alliance Navy was crippled in that fight against the Reavers and with the story of what they did on Miranda out the Indepenents will be able to use that to forment a new stage in the rebellion. With better odds of success with the Navy limping like it is.

Not so. Did you see that fleet that the Operative had ready to meet the Serenity? That piddling little fleet didn't even have a single Alliance Cruiser in it (remember the enormous city-ships from the series?). In modern terms, it might be like losing a carrier group, or a large part of a carrier group. Painful, yes, but crippling? Doubtful.

I do so want there to be another Firefly movie/season. I want to see the Revolution, and to see the Serenity armed and going to war.

Boss Spearman
October 5, 2005, 11:23 PM
I was going to mention Tudyk's discussion with Wheadon about Wash dying. Someone already posted it.

Don Gwinn
October 6, 2005, 12:17 AM
Straight from Zoe's mouth in the deleted scene, the Battle of Serenity was a bloodbath, then the Independents were ordered to lay down arms.
During the bloodbath Mal, a sergeant, started out in command of a platoon. Of that platoon, only he and Zoe survived. However, he kept finding himself in charge of more and more men until near the end of the carnage he was commanding thousands.

After the surrender, the high commands negotiated the terms and in the meantime left the survivors on the battlefield for "a week" (Zoe definitely says a week, not several weeks.) During that time, many people who had survived the battle died, both wounded and unwounded. Zoe tells Simon they were all more than a little mad by the end.


I meant to mention that poor Simon sure seemed to get pretty strong in this film. On Serenity, that makes sense because he's just further along in the transformation his character began on the show. At the Alliance research facility, I didn't really understand it. After all, when the crew wanted him to pretend to be a rich guy looking for clay in "Jaynestown," he wasn't very impressive as a master of disguise.

I think you could chalk that up to the idea that he might have been a lot more comfortable intimidating bureaucrats in a medical facility than he would have been dealing with the thugs on the "mud" planet. On the other hand, you'd have to be a fanboy with an unhealthy obsession to care one way or the other.

Strings
October 6, 2005, 02:12 AM
Don admits to being "a fanboy with an unhealthy obsession", film at 11! :neener:

Cosmoline
October 6, 2005, 02:33 AM
The first step is admitting you have a problem :neener:

http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~tskirvin/pics/parties/Halloween2004/tn/img_5417.med.jpg

Razor
October 6, 2005, 03:03 AM
Dude. You have a problem.

(As I hide my Jayne hat underneath my pile of Jayne t-shirts...) ;)

fistful
October 6, 2005, 03:07 AM
Dude, tell me that's not a picture of you.

Strings
October 6, 2005, 03:25 AM
Oh... wow...

My brain not only isn't wrapping around that pic, it's refusing to image it clearly! :neener:

PromptCritical
October 6, 2005, 03:56 AM
As I recall from the pilot, Simon didn't actually rescue River himself, but paid someone else to do it and deliver the "cargo" to him on the planet where he meets Serenity. That was my first thought when he rescued her in the movie.

LadySmith
October 6, 2005, 06:57 AM
From watching the series and the movie, I've noticed that Simon becomes uncharacteristically tough & determined when it concerns River. Otherwise he gets smacked around physically & emotionally at will.
What if Zoe & Jayne got together?

Kaylee
October 6, 2005, 08:46 AM
Cosmoline... um.. the problem is you haven't taken out the trash? :confused:

;)

Zundfolge
October 6, 2005, 11:55 AM
Another problem with the movie version of River's rescue is that the doctor gives him a lot of information on what's been done to River ... information that he didn't have in the TV series until like the 10th episode (Ariel...the one with the hospital)

Cosmoline
October 6, 2005, 03:55 PM
That's DON. You think I'd be caught dead with that little toy Colt?

This is my "Firefly" getup:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/levergun.jpg

The scary thing is, that was in 2001 before the series aired :eek:

Don Gwinn
October 6, 2005, 10:57 PM
Don't drag me into your web of self-deception, Filthy Cosplayer. I don't roll like that.

And if I did, I would SO be Jayne. I got the beard and everything. Got a couple of shirts that look perfect too. Still need the muscles, though.

Lt. G
October 7, 2005, 01:03 AM
I Laughed, I Cried, I kissed 6 bucks goodbye!!!!

(I thought it was a good movie).

Cheers, G

TarpleyG
October 7, 2005, 12:06 PM
Jesus, I see "Firefly" and "Serenity" conventions in our future. Please don't turn this into a geek-fest like Star Wars and Star Trek. Have some standards will ya?

Greg

Zundfolge
October 7, 2005, 12:36 PM
And if I did, I would SO be Jayne. I got the beard and everything. Got a couple of shirts that look perfect too. Still need the muscles, though.

http://cleascave.typepad.com/cleas_cave/images/jayne-hat-1.jpg

Don't forget the hat
http://www.wearwithstyle.com/hat5.html
or
http://westerntumbleweeds.tripod.com/cunning_hat.html

“Man walks down the street in a hat like that…
…people know he’s not afraid of anything.”

wingnutx
October 7, 2005, 04:55 PM
There are a ton of those hats for sale on ebay.

Cosmoline
October 7, 2005, 05:55 PM
Jesus, I see "Firefly" and "Serenity" conventions in our future. Please don't turn this into a geek-fest like Star Wars and Star Trek. Have some standards will ya?


It will be just like a "Star Trek" convention. Only better armed and more violent.

Dr.Rob
October 7, 2005, 06:15 PM
Only one reason for a man to have a sleeve of plastic cups like that...

oh and did anyone else notice Jayne hugging his rifle like a teddy bear?

Drizzt
October 8, 2005, 02:56 AM
They went through all that just to broadcast a message?

If you think about it, they realized that the only way for the Alliance to stop chasing them because of the info in River's warped little head, is if the info made it into the public domain. If it's not a secret anymore, what's the point in killing the people who knew? Other than revenge, of course.....

Strings
October 8, 2005, 04:32 AM
and some are geekier than others...

http://www.reasonablyclever.com/lego/firefly/index.htm

Dr.Rob
October 8, 2005, 11:29 PM
PS looks like Jayne packs a Bagwell bowie knife and there was an M1 carbine with a folding stock on the back of the 'mule.'

Cosmoline
October 9, 2005, 12:01 AM
Saw it a second time today. I agree with those who say it gets better with repeated viewings. The tightly condensed plot is a lot easier to take in and the action is less confusing.

Re. Zoe's trench gun with a scope--how do we know she doesn't have it geared for slugs?

Silver Bullet
October 9, 2005, 12:44 AM
Watched it tonight. Fantastic ride, very exhilarating. Best movie I've seen this year, which previously was Batman Begins (and I'm not a Batman fan).

One thing I missed was that a fast-paced 2-hour movie doesn't seem to have quite the same soul of a 15-hour series. I think they had no time to be contemplative or poignant. "Out of Gas" and "Object in Space" were colossal.

Cacique500
October 9, 2005, 01:10 PM
Saw it last night and loved it...hope they come out with the series again!

Gabe
October 12, 2005, 06:44 AM
I saw it today having never seen the TV series. I found it very enjoyable. There's a certain originality and enigma not typical of the genre.

Rob1035
October 12, 2005, 11:54 AM
Gabe- I think its unique amongst most TV and movie genres, not just scifi

Byron Quick
October 12, 2005, 12:26 PM
Jesus, I see "Firefly" and "Serenity" conventions in our future. Please don't turn this into a geek-fest like Star Wars and Star Trek. Have some standards will ya?

Darn right, standards. No Lorcens, Ravens, HiPoints, etc. We'll have well armed conventions with wacky costumes and totally disavow any attendees who get caught robbing trains.

Correia
October 12, 2005, 02:44 PM
Question is, has it made enough money to get us a part II yet?

Working Man
October 12, 2005, 02:51 PM
Saw it Saturday but never saw the TV show. I was pleasantly surprised
and that mechanic chick is cute.

Rob1035
October 12, 2005, 03:04 PM
$18 million gross so far, whats the magic number?

Cosmoline
October 12, 2005, 03:28 PM
THe budget was about $39 million, with very little spent on advertising and a medium-size run of prints. The big money is going to be overseas on this one. It's NO. 1 in the UK and doing well in Australia as well. Total gross worldwide is at 22 million, and given the high numbers already coming from abroad plus the expected high DVD sales, the film is sure to make a very healthy profit. The down side is, given the mediocre domestic performance a sequel may be off the boards. I would actually be happier to see it back on TV.

GhostRider66
October 12, 2005, 05:16 PM
What I'm impressed with is that all this time none of our more uptight members have complained about the portrayal of the drinking of alcohol by gun toting folks. Heck, I would have expected a couple of "That weapon should have been locked securely in a safe prior to pouring the first drop." But alas, I will have to stick to Legal and Political for the indignation.

:neener:

ScorpioVI
November 1, 2005, 08:49 PM
Ahem.


:D


http://www.tacticalpursuits.com/images/misc/serenitydvdartwork.jpg

Boss Spearman
November 1, 2005, 09:14 PM
It will be just like a "Star Trek" convention. Only better armed and more violent.

And much more intelligent.

Saw it Saturday but never saw the TV show. I was pleasantly surprised
and that mechanic chick is cute.

Firefly was one of the best action tv shows ever. I highly recommend the dvd or video series.

Boss Spearman
November 1, 2005, 09:17 PM
IMHO, in the Pilot, the scene at the end of the battle, which shows Mal looking at the Alliance offensive, with no sound but the sad violin, is easily one of the best scenes I've seen on TV in a long long time. Its right up there with the Phil Collins "Air of the Night" Miami Vice scene...
?

The scene at the end of the episode where Mal and Zoe have to take their fallen comrade from the war (the one they sadly had to kill) home to his parents is equally as powerful.

[QUOTE

btw- I just noticed, right before that, Mal kissed a cross on his necklace, so maybe he lost his religious faith, as well as faith in the independant movement?[/QUOTE]

I have alot in common with Mal.

Rob1035
November 1, 2005, 09:23 PM
"You murdered yourself, I just carried the bullet awhile"

Good call

I think a lot of us do to some degree. Or at least one of the characters. Thats why I like the series/movie so much. I like to think I'd act as nobley (sp?) for the most part in their shoes...

Boss Spearman
November 1, 2005, 09:28 PM
For me, this series summed up what it's going to be like when we start spreading out into space. There are no aliens in our solar system. I don't believe there is intelligent life out there within reaching distance of earth. Somewhere in the universe, yes. In our solar system, no.
There is an episode in the series where there's a guy on a world running a side show claiming he has an alien body, evidence of alien life. Of course the thing he has on display is not alien.
I find the non-alien presence extremely refreshing, and to me Firefly and Serenity are more futuristic programs than science fiction.

JohnKSa
November 1, 2005, 10:20 PM
What I'm impressed with is that all this time none of our more uptight members have complained about the portrayal of the drinking of alcohol by gun toting folks. Heck, I would have expected a couple of "That weapon should have been locked securely in a safe prior to pouring the first drop." But alas, I will have to stick to Legal and Political for the indignation.I'm reminded of a story that one of my friends tells.

He had a houseguest and while they were talking, the houseguest noticed that my friend's very young daughter was playing with a toy telephone. When she made it ring, he asked her who was on the phone. She looked at him pityingly and said: "It's only a TOY phone, there's no one there." and then went right back to playing.

So, to you I say, "It's only a MOVIE, not real life." and return to browsing the forum.

The_Antibubba
November 2, 2005, 12:07 AM
Saw it last night.


:D

Drizzt
November 2, 2005, 12:14 AM
btw- I just noticed, right before that, Mal kissed a cross on his necklace, so maybe he lost his religious faith, as well as faith in the independant movement?

It took me a couple viewings of the first episode to really notice that. I really like the fact that Joss Whedon left it as a subtle touch, and didn't try to beat us over the head with it. Just good character development.

Boss Spearman
November 2, 2005, 02:46 AM
BTW Drizzt, I really enjoyed the Dark Elf books.

psyopspec
December 25, 2005, 03:13 AM
I got the dvd for Christmas this afternoon and already watched it twice. I had no previous experience with Firefly, and boy was I surprised. This is certainly top 5 material for the year, and I hope to see the story carried on by Whedon in the form of another season or another feature.

Awesome!!! Now I'm going over to the "guns of" thread to spend another hour or so catching up on that one...:uhoh:

Borachon
December 25, 2005, 03:54 AM
I got the dvd for Christmas this afternoon and already watched it twice. I had no previous experience with Firefly, and boy was I surprised

Buy the Firefly series DVD collection. It's $29.99 on Amazon.com. If you liked Serenity then I promise you'll love the series. And get your friends to like it too. Fans of the show are trying to buy as much Firefly stuff as we can so some network will re-do the show and start new episodes. Maybe Sci-Fi channel.

Bruce333
December 25, 2005, 08:57 AM
Buy the Firefly series DVD collection. It's $29.99 on Amazon.com. If you liked Serenity then I promise you'll love the series. And get your friends to like it too. Fans of the show are trying to buy as much Firefly stuff as we can so some network will re-do the show and start new episodes. Maybe Sci-Fi channel.+1

Byron Quick
December 25, 2005, 10:45 AM
Got the DVD of Firefly a few weeks ago.

The description of River's genius early on is almost word for word what Mark Twain wrote of Joan of Arc.

When will the DVD of the movie be released?

Silver Bullet
December 25, 2005, 11:37 AM
Serenity on DVD was released five days ago. Where've you been ? :)

Last I checked, it was number 1 on Amazon.com's DVD sales list.

Silver Bullet
December 25, 2005, 11:48 AM
Yup. "Serenity" is still #1, and the "Firefly" DVD set is #4.

I sure hope this bodes well for a movie sequel; better yet, a renewed television season.

Zoe: “And I'm not so afraid of losing something that I won't try havin' it.”

bogie
December 25, 2005, 12:02 PM
HSO--you have to get into the spirit of firefly guns. It's the sort of spirit that leads one to put tactical lights and red dot scopes on leverguns. Something I'm planning to do to the Marlin 1894 I've got on order :D

Heh... One of my favorite non-accurate rifles is my little Winchester .357 lever gun... 16" barrel, not much heavier than a pistol, and MUCH more accurate. I've been semi-looking for a way to mount a dot sight on it...

Onmilo
December 26, 2005, 09:43 PM
I rented and watched Serenity today.
Kaylee, yum.
Firearms were interesting, I really want the good Captains handgun,,,,,whatever it is.
I saw the Firefly series and still find some of the plotting as confused and rambling.
A good movie anyway.

Silver Bullet
December 26, 2005, 09:59 PM
till find some of the plotting as confused and rambling.
Let's talk about it ! Between all of us we can probably sort it out.

I didn't find anything confusing; maybe that means I wasn't paying enough attention. :)

Cosmoline
December 26, 2005, 11:25 PM
Part of the problem is, we only got to see the first part of the first season before it was axed. Whedon is a big fan of very long story arcs. So as far as the big picture, you won't really know what's going on until the second season and the main threads won't be fully resolved till the very end. You can see in "Serenity" a whole bunch of story lines, from the "Mr. Universe" character to "Miranda" that would have been played out over many shows and many seasons at TV pacing.

IndianaDean
December 26, 2005, 11:41 PM
Some were confused by Fox's butchering of Firefly because they didn't show the episodes in order. Who has ever heard of a tv company being that arrogant/ignorant?

Strings
December 26, 2005, 11:52 PM
I honestly wonder if they weren't trying to prove that Joss isn't all that good, tell ya the truth...

IndianaDean
December 27, 2005, 12:16 AM
If they were, they received a sound defeat.

riverdog
December 27, 2005, 01:10 AM
I got the Serenity DVD and watched it this afternoon. I loved the series but the movie is outstanding. They did a really nice job of showing the Fox Network's front office that they were way wrong. Hope the sales are enough to justify a second and third movie.

Firethorn
December 27, 2005, 01:26 AM
Some were confused by Fox's butchering of Firefly because they didn't show the episodes in order. Who has ever heard of a tv company being that arrogant/ignorant?

You must not watch much TV. It's actually happened quite frequently. Look at Star Trek. Heck, Andromeda season 5.

I got the Serenity DVD and watched it this afternoon. I loved the series but the movie is outstanding. They did a really nice job of showing the Fox Network's front office that they were way wrong. Hope the sales are enough to justify a second and third movie.

Sorry to disappoint you, but the box office and DVD sales were insufficient for another movie or continuation of the series.

Strings
December 27, 2005, 02:06 AM
>Sorry to disappoint you, but the box office and DVD sales were insufficient for another movie or continuation of the series.<

and this is based on?

From what I've heard, most of the movies released around the time of Serenity fairly well tanked at the box office. And I've been hearing from a few places that it's flyin' off the shelves...

Radagast
December 27, 2005, 02:34 AM
Josh Whedon stated that the studio told him the movie needed to make 40 million at the box office to justify a sequel. The final take was around 24 million.

IndianaDean
December 27, 2005, 02:37 AM
You must not watch much TV. It's actually happened quite frequently. Look at Star Trek. Heck, Andromeda season 5.


Can't stand Star Trek (other than the original, and Deep Space 9), but I did watch Andromeda. I thought it was a very good series. Yeah, you're right about season 5, even though I still liked it.

Oh, and you're right. Other than the Stargate series' on Scifi, I do not watch any series on television. My viewing pretty much just runs the gamut of the Military Channel, History Channel, Science Channel, History International, The Learning Channel and occasionally Animal Planet.

Firefly was (is) my favorite of the defunct shows, followed by Dark Angel.

Cosmoline
December 27, 2005, 02:47 AM
I honestly wonder if they weren't trying to prove that Joss isn't all that good, tell ya the truth...

By all accounts the network heads HATED the show with a deep passion. Whedon got it going on the substantial cred he'd build up doing "Buffy" and "Angel," but they fought him every step of the way and absolutely wanted it to bomb. The horses made them mad, the quirky low-tech science fiction setting made them mad, the western theme made them mad.

Justin
December 27, 2005, 05:04 AM
Cosmoline, I bet I can offer up a couple of reasons why:

1) Money
2) Money
3) Money

The two most expensive television genres to produce are sci-fi and period peices. Firefly blended both, so now you've got to hire on set horse-wranglers and post-production 3d animators.

This is, incidentally, the reason for why reality shows are so popular with the networks, yet so universally loathed by anyone with taste. You don't have to pay writers and actors, let alone special effects artists and animal experts. A reality show with moderate ratings will have a higher profit margin than a highly-rated drama.

The story and setting aren't something that's been seen before, and require the viewer to be open to a quirky and (as mentioned before) expensive concept. To the standard exec in a suit, Firefly simply doesn't have the instant hook and familiarity that is inherent in a sitcom, cop drama, lawyer drama, or even Star Trek-esque scifi show.

Very little product placement advertising opportunities. With so many people using TiVo to skip right past the advertisements, the big shiny thing in advertising is to do product placement. For a reality show, this is cake. Just watch any episode of "American Idol." Same goes for sitcoms and dramas.

But how do you discreetly place a product ad on the set of a show that takes place 500 years in the future? (Well, maybe I'm overstating this. The Blue Sun Corporation seemed to have their logo placed all over the show. ;) )

I think Firefly would have been a hit, and probably quite profitable. But not profitable enough.

Cosmoline
December 27, 2005, 05:24 AM
Certainly, that's a factor. But contrary to conventional wisdom it isn't ALL about money. The prejudices and attitudes of the network brass play a role, and can keep a show with cruddy ratings alive for many seasons or kill a show with great potential. Seinfeld, for example, didn't take off until the fourth season. But the brass absolutely loved the show and Jerry, so they kept it afloat in a nice bracket that allowed it to develop its following over the years.

Internal network politics, esp. when it comes to getting you a good timeslot, matters a great deal. If the network heads had really taken a shine to "Firefly," they would have found a good timeslot for it and let it develop an audience instead of cancelling it.

I think money was more of a factor in cancelling "Farscape," for example. Those guys just kept going into the red and making mega-expensive episodes. "Firefly" was nowhere near as expensive per episode. There are few laser beams, no alien beings to create, limited sound effects (space is dead silent in the series) and the sets can be as simple as the ship plus an empty field east of town. That's as cheap as it gets! Horse wranglers are far, far, far less expensive than they geeks who make the laser beams or the teams of makeup artists who create alien beings. That's one reason Hollywood loved Westerns for so long--you can make them with some guys, a couple quarter horses, a few prop guns you already own and a producer's back yard up in the mountains. Even the "Firefly" costumes were cheap. They look like my closet. Lots of old Filson and Carhartts.

I also suspect the freewheeling politics of "Firefly" rubbed the network the wrong way. There's a reason so few TV shows have a libertarian bent--the Hollywood elite instinctively fear it.

riverdog
December 27, 2005, 11:23 AM
Maybe Sci-Fi Channel will pick up production. They've done it before with Babylon 5 and seem to have the right attitude.

buzz_knox
December 27, 2005, 11:53 AM
Maybe Sci-Fi Channel will pick up production. They've done it before with Babylon 5 and seem to have the right attitude.

TNT picked up Babylon 5, not the Sci-Fi channel, and helped kill the franchise (or at least, put it into extreme hibernation). Sci-Fi just got the syndication rights to the show.

You may have been thinking of Sliders. Sci-Fi bought that one from Fox and kept it going.

riverdog
December 27, 2005, 12:19 PM
Yep, you're right, it was TNT, then Sci-Fi got broadcast rights from TNT. It would be nice if one of them picked it up. Now that Summer Glau can do more than act like a doped up head case and use her skills as part of the crew, it would be interesting. The last scene with her and Mal on the bridge flying Serenity was just a taste.

Whatever, my guess is that it's over -- 14 episodes and a movie.

buzz_knox
December 27, 2005, 12:25 PM
There's been some speculation that the series could continue via direct to DVD movies. That's been a trend for years, but is starting to become more mainstream and accepted. So, instead of seeing a new Steven Seagal movie every other week, we might see a new Angel, Buffy, or Firefly once a year.

Herself
December 27, 2005, 12:29 PM
Sci-Fi also picked up Stargate SG-1 and have done a good job of keeping it going.

Joss Whedon is not ruling out additional films. The studio isn't saying. There is a persistent rumor that Sci-Fi tried to get rights to shoot more episodes of the TV series but couldn't come to agreement with Fox on the price. The situation is fluid.

As for "product placement," artifacts from Earth-that-was appear to be highly valued in the Firefly universe. This could easily be used for very smooth product placement purposes. As it was, the series was a kind of ongoing advertisement for a number of fairly obscure old guns that show up on the used market!

For a lot of non-SF people, "science fiction series" means Star Trek or something very similar; they even saw even Andromeda as a bit of a maverick. "Firefly" is not going to sit at all well with them.

As a long-time fan of SF of the sort found in books and magazines, Firefly was the best thing I had seen on TV since, well, ever; and Serenity is among the best SF films ever made. As far as sets and setting goes, both establish entirely new standards for dramatic productions -- and, finally, begin to come close to what's been available in print since Stanley Weinbaum, John W. Campbell and Robert A. Heinlein (among others) made the pulps start to grow up.

--Herself

Rob1035
December 27, 2005, 01:16 PM
FWIW, I got the firefly DVDs for Christmas, and am watching the series again. My inside the beltway DC liberal sister loves it, and wants to see Serenity now:D

Igloodude
December 27, 2005, 07:49 PM
Having seen the series via Netflix, I put the DVD at the top of my Christmas list, and so my wife and I watched it this evening (having avoided all spoiler info like the plague for the past three months).

It was worth the wait, and then some.

LawDog
December 27, 2005, 09:53 PM
Who the heck is the dark-haired woman on the cover of the Serenity DVD?

Not that I'm complaining, you understand, but she doesn't look like River or Inara.

LawDog

Silver Bullet
December 27, 2005, 10:12 PM
I never did figure that out.

IndianaDean
December 27, 2005, 10:24 PM
It's River.

Silver Bullet
December 27, 2005, 11:33 PM
It should be River, considering her prominence in the story, but doesn't look much like her to me.

I don't like that poster. Here are some other poster options:

http://www.moviegoods.com/movie_product.asp?master%5Fmovie%5Fid=29102&mgaid=GoogleAdWords+serenity

Drizzt
December 28, 2005, 01:53 AM
Kind of liked this one myself....

http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/308620.1020.A.jpg

notice which 2 characters aren't shown, though?

IndianaDean
December 28, 2005, 02:12 AM
Good point. I should have noticed that.

Nando Aqui
December 28, 2005, 08:57 AM
Shown:
Inara, River, Jayne, Mal, Zoe

Not Shown:
Wash, Kaylee, Simon, Shepherd Book

Strings
December 28, 2005, 09:02 AM
I'd guess Kaylee and Simon were otherwise occupied during the group shot there. Something about a complaint about batteries?:neener:

jason10mm
December 28, 2005, 10:02 AM
Am I the only ODB who noticed that Rivers, ahem, outline through the shirt doesn't quite match up with her legs?

IMHO, its that kind of ad that hurts Firefly/Serenity. It sends a message to viewers that conflicts with what the show actually IS, leading to dissappointment. I so wish Wheedon had control over how the trailers for Serenity were made, I can't imagine that he approved of what they actually ran.

Silver Bullet
December 28, 2005, 10:18 AM
I think a better poster would show Serenity (the ship) against a black, starry sky, with the engine lit up and those glowing "fumes" being emitted from the engine.

It could symbolize the crew and their ship traversing the solar systems, a lone source of heat and light, alone against the cold 'Verse.

Or not. :)

Silver Bullet
December 28, 2005, 10:21 AM
This is close:

http://shop.vendio.com/comicod/item/757992019/index.html

The third and fourth posters. I wish the ship were a little further back.

BenW
December 28, 2005, 11:54 AM
Giggidy giggidy giggidy.

Strings
December 28, 2005, 01:48 PM
jason, Spoon just took a look at it: since her degree is graphic design, she should have SOME clue...

She figures it was just back-lit oddly...

scubie02
December 28, 2005, 04:06 PM
in case it wasn't posted elsewhere in the thread...opening scene...

Teacher: Earth That Was could no longer sustain our numbers, we were so many. We found a new solar system, dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Each one terra-formed, a process taking decades, to support human life, to be new earths. The Central Planets formed the lace. Ruled by an interplanetary parliament, the Alliance was a beacon of civilization. The savage outer planets were not so enlightened and refused Alliancelace control. The war was devastating, but the Alliance's victory over the Independents insured a safer universe. And now everyone can enjoy the comfort, and enlightenment of your civilization.

Student: Why were the independents even fighting us? Why wouldn’t they look to be more civilized?

Teacher: Its true that there are…dangers on the outer planets…so with so many social and medical advancements we can bring to the independents, why would they fight so hard against us?

Young River: We meddle.

Teacher: River?

Young River: People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.

Teacher: Riiiver…we’re not telling people what to think! We’re just trying to show them how! *shoves metal probe into River’s forehead*

Cosmoline
December 28, 2005, 10:55 PM
SERENITY NO. 3 IN DVD SALES IN THE WEEK BEFORE CHRISTMAS!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/charts/home_video/first_alert.jsp

This is fantastic news. The foreign and domestic BO basically broke even with the 39 million production budget, so the future of the franchise will be made or lost on the highly lucrative market for DVD sales. The fact that little bitty Serenity trounced an array of high concept flics such as "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" and "Fantastic Four" for the critical sales week is amazing. It also beat DVD's that were pushed long and hard for Christmas in particular, such as "Madagascar" and "March of the Penguins." Just amazing.

Remember, it was DVD sales on the TV series that kept the film project going.

I just picked up the DVD today and Apart from the odd cover it's very well done. Tons of extras.

Silver Bullet
December 28, 2005, 11:10 PM
I'm not sure what all these lists really signify. Amazon shows Serenity #1 or #2, but Billboard didn't show it in their top ten.

Cosmoline
December 28, 2005, 11:26 PM
Amazon is just its own on-line sales, which shows a lot of fans of Serenity are digitized and order on-line. Billboard's non-pay chart claims to date from the 31st of this month, but the number of weeks they show films like "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" being on the charts make it pretty clear it's from the middle of the month, before Serenity was out. Serenity was released on the 20th, so the key week isn't shown there. T Billboard site won't let you see the actual DVD sales ranks for last week without paying.

grimjaw
December 28, 2005, 11:27 PM
Cosmoline, not to take anything away from Firefly and Serenity (both of which I loved), it's not hard to beat "Fantastic Four." It was a disappointing stinker, IMO.

jmm

Cosmoline
December 28, 2005, 11:46 PM
Tell that to the people who went to see it. The POS grossed 329,497 MILLION worldwide. Yes, beating it with a little-known and virtually unadvertised DVD release in the week before Christmas is a big deal.

I think what we're starting to see here is a shift between the increasingly teen/idiot-oriented box office and the DVD sales market. DVD sales once made up only a small part of the pie, but these days they're starting to rival box office on films geared for a more adult or at least conscious audience. Hollywood has been pulling its hair out trying to figure out why so many films aren't doing as well as hoped at the theaters, and the simple answer appears to be grownups just don't like going there anymore. Theaters tend to be noisy, overpriced and unpleasant experiences. Clusters of noisy teens can ruin a whole movie, and the day and age of ushers are long gone. Complain and they'll just laugh at you.

Ten years ago I *NEVER* bought a VHS tape. I just rented them. Now I've got two 40mm cannon ammo boxes full of collected DVD's. And I may see one or two films every other year at the theater. This decade I've seen the LOTR movies, Serenity, Hitchhiker's Guide and "Grizzly Man" on the big screen--that's about it. At two of the LOTR films I had to endure chattering teens and crying babes the whole time. The last one I waited for a very late showing late in the run when the theater was mostly empty.

IndianaDean
December 29, 2005, 02:30 AM
The folks at www.fireflyfans.net think the big dvd sales may just be the Firefly fans (like me) rushing out to get it as soon as it came out, then the sales will start dropping.

Warren
December 29, 2005, 02:41 AM
The thing about the movie is that it has not stayed with me as the series did and still does. I expected it to, but no.

I have a lot more fond moments from the TV show that when I think of them I smile or sometimes even bust out laughing. Not so much with the movie.


I'll buy the DVD, but I'm not that into it anymore.

Tharg
December 29, 2005, 03:21 AM
I won't explain how i saw the series... since it ain't right... <snicker> but i DO know i will go buy both the movie/series soon. Try before ya buy right? rofl - i'd broken up w/ my ex just before firefly came on TV, and since i didn't watch TV too much cept w/ her... never knew...

My best friend swears there are new firefly episodes on sci-fi... can't confirm or deny...

One thing that got dropped in the last 4 pages... that since i'm obviously not OCB... is... River....

In the series ya'll are right... he's got her in suspended animation thingie and she gets released when (jayne? Mal?) gets entirely too curious "whats in the box"...

in the Movie... he's a daring Brother playing the role of a serious Alliance Doc.. (something he def SHOULD be able to do... altho masqurading as something on that other planet... he might feel a bit weird about...) on a rescue mission draggin her from Needle recepticle... to... full conscience... to jumping through windows on to lifts in a tube!

Honestly thought when i heard there was a serenity movie... (found firely entirely by..erm.. suprise... be suprised what a google of "serenity" will find... snicker) I had thought... oh COOL.. a movie to continue the series... and it ... sorta does... and sorta conflicts.. nothing new i know... hope it continues... the writing of the series and the movie both were excellent if ya ask me... last time i thought the writing was that good was watching "WestWing" and if i was a "critic" that would mean something.. (snicker)

as i Said love em BOTH. =)

J/Tharg!

IndianaDean
December 29, 2005, 04:40 AM
There are no new episodes of Firefly on Scifi, or anywhere else for that matter. Scifi's merely showing them in the correct order, unlike Fox when they had the show.

DukeNukem
December 29, 2005, 06:16 AM
Missed seeing "Firefly" when it was on television. Rented "Serenity" and a couple of DVDs of "Firefly" and am really enjoying them. Reminds me a bit of some of Mike Resnick's books--"Santiago" and his other books set in that world(science fiction with a Western vibe.)

BenW
December 29, 2005, 10:39 AM
What Cosomoline said. I think DVD sales are going to be taken a lot more seriously in the coming years. I also have seen maybe 6-7 movies at the theater in the last maybe 6-7 years.

With bigscreen HD TVs dropping in price like crazy, HD cable and satellite signals, HD DVD recorders, $3.99 PPV movies, businesses like NetFlix, and TiVo recording, pausing, and playback, why pay $10 to see a movie at a theater full of noisy, uncouth citizens, that's always either too hot or to cold, with $5 sodas, and if you have to go to the bathroom you know you're gonna miss the best part of the movie and have to pay $10 to see it again (how's that for a run-on sentence?) :)

I'll take a DVD, my easy chair, the remote with "pause' function, and the fridge 30 feet away with $0.25 a pop sodas in it over a theater any day of the week. Except for absolutely "have to see it now" stuff like the LOTR movies or Serenity. But an increase in and acceptance of "direct to DVD" will take care of that too.

Silver Bullet
December 29, 2005, 11:54 AM
Cosmoline:

Amazon is just its own on-line sales
That part I figured out on my own. :)

I just thought it surprising that the Amazon DVD-buying demographic would be so different from the nation at large (if that is what Billboard reflects).

Your explanation about the Billboard time lag explains it, though.

scubie02
December 29, 2005, 01:48 PM
One thing that got dropped in the last 4 pages... that since i'm obviously not OCB... is... River....

In the series ya'll are right... he's got her in suspended animation thingie and she gets released when (jayne? Mal?) gets entirely too curious "whats in the box"...

in the Movie... he's a daring Brother playing the role of a serious Alliance Doc.. (something he def SHOULD be able to do... altho masqurading as something on that other planet... he might feel a bit weird about...) on a rescue mission draggin her from Needle recepticle... to... full conscience... to jumping through windows on to lifts in a tube!

there was no conflict between the series and movie regarding River. In the series, the first we see of them is when they book passage on serenity, and yes, River is in a crate in suspended animation. But it was explained then that Simon had sprung her from an Alliance facility before this. The movie just flashes back to the earlier escape. Its not two different stories or anything.

Correia
December 29, 2005, 03:27 PM
I got the DVD for christmas. Sadly no deleted scenes of Jayne playing the guitar.

Carl N. Brown
December 29, 2005, 03:53 PM
There were three episodes not shown by Fox, which were released
on the Firefly series DVD, and subsequently played on SciFi Channel.

Technically not new episodes, but new to those who saw the series
on Fox network.

Silver Bullet
December 29, 2005, 04:56 PM
Props from the movie for sale here:

http://www.propstore.com/list/cat_id/8/pos/0/num_display/15/view/0/ob/itm/movs/877

Tharg
December 30, 2005, 12:24 AM
So dumb question - how many "fox" episodes were there?

Razor
December 30, 2005, 12:33 AM
Eleven, including the two hour "Pilot" (which F*X aired LAST!!!)

Tharg
December 30, 2005, 12:44 AM
ok - guess i got em all... but still want em on DVD....

fox aired "serenity" last?!?!?!? NFW!

good lord...

J/Tharg!

Cosmoline
December 31, 2005, 09:18 PM
Just watched the DVD again. Personally, I would have reorganized the fight scenes and had River save mal and fight the Operative in a nice kung fu match, rather than the more far-fetched fight against the reavers.

Whedon does a good job with plots and character, but he's still too mired in "Buffy" style "slayer vs. vampire" fighting. You can really see, esp. towards the end, how the reavers start to become Buffyverse vamps--turning to dust with one hit. It's a blemish on an otherwise pretty realistic series. He should have given the final Reaver showdown to Jayne and Vera.

IndianaDean
January 1, 2006, 01:43 AM
I can overlook it. The series and movie are still worlds better than any of the other scifi stuff.

Rob1035
January 1, 2006, 03:04 AM
I can overlook it. The series and movie are still worlds better than any of the other scifi stuff.


I concur. Its basically one of two movies I've seen this year that I am glad I paid my $8 for, the other being Walk the Line. I saw Serenity twice:cool:

Lindenberger
January 1, 2006, 04:05 AM
Can non-Libertarians enjoy the movie?


Anyone who asks a question like that doesn't have a clue of what libertarianism is. And I don't want to burst anybody's bubble, but Thin Blue Line is a misappropriation of poetic imagery from Kipling's Tommy:

. . . hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"

But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. . . .

Oh--and the quote is, more correctly: "Beware the wrath of a patient man."--Plato


Happy New Year and Semper Fidelis. Platoon 202 "Charlie" Company

2nd Battallion Parris Island "Tet" 1968.

bogie
January 1, 2006, 04:13 AM
With bigscreen HD TVs dropping in price like crazy, HD cable and satellite signals, HD DVD recorders, $3.99 PPV movies, businesses like NetFlix, and TiVo recording, pausing, and playback, why pay $10 to see a movie at a theater full of noisy, uncouth citizens, that's always either too hot or to cold, with $5 sodas, and if you have to go to the bathroom you know you're gonna miss the best part of the movie and have to pay $10 to see it again (how's that for a run-on sentence?)

Darn fine run-on sentence.

Friends don't let friends buy bigscreen televisions, HD or otherwise. Bogie's Bunker has a projector on the ceiling, pointed at a 92" screen, and the beer's only steps away.

Saw the flick tonight/last night, depending on your definition of "night" and "morning." Pretty darn fine, all things considered. Fellow needed to aim better tho...

And isn't this Baldwin fellow the brother of _those_ Baldwins?

modifiedbrowning
January 1, 2006, 04:28 AM
bogie, Adam Baldwin is no way related to the other Baldwins.

Cosmoline
January 1, 2006, 04:48 AM
And isn't this Baldwin fellow the brother of _those_ Baldwins?

THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!!

http://www.fireflywiki.org/img/jayne-vera.jpg

He's the antithesis of "those" Baldwins--both on and off screen.

scubie02
January 1, 2006, 10:05 AM
yeah, jayne's been slammed! :cuss: :fire:

In interviews I have seen adam baldwin is about the most likeable actor you'd come across

Justin
January 1, 2006, 11:40 AM
Adam Baldwin is, I'm told, a rather outspoken Republican.


Has there been any word on whether or not they're going to release a special-edition DVD?

Typically it seems like they release a DVD shortly after the theatrical run, and then several months later release a special edition and/or director's cut. I haven't picked up a copy of Serenity yet simply because I expect there to be a better edition to be released.

Cosmoline
January 1, 2006, 06:46 PM
The current DVD has quite a lot of extras on it, and I don't get the sense from Whedon that he has a different cut he likes better. What was on screen *WAS* his cut. From all those years doing TV he's unusually well disciplined about cutting out extra stuff. THe DVD does have some fun cut scenes, but nothing that really needs to be in the film.

I do wish they had more commentary tracts than Whedon, but I don't think a more expanded special edition is coming out anytime soon.

1911user
January 1, 2006, 07:13 PM
From what I've read on some of the fan sites, Whedon does not want to do a special edition of any kind although the browncoats are demanding a special enhanced edition just for themselves. Maybe there will be enough money to make it happen but I doubt it'll be released 3 months from now. Whedon is off working on something to do with Wonder Woman IIRC. The deleted scenes on the DVD could have been used to add another 15-20 minutes to the movie and make it less jumpy IMO, but, per film experts, the deleted scenes would require alot of work to be ready to add into the film. My impression is the scenes were deleted well before the final version and were not last minute cuts.

I'll admit the first viewing of the movie (on DVD) left me thinking the series was better than the movie, but I was tired and a 2nd and 3rd viewing has increased my personal rating of the film; no regrets now. The series is a hard act to follow with 10 hours of time getting to know the characters and story vs. 2 hours with a film that had to cater to people who had (and had not) seen the series.

A slight disappointment was Kaylee. In the series she was a lovable, happy, girl-next-door who happened to be mechanically inclined. In the movie she is 20 pounds lighter (her normal, very skinny self), a few years older (duh) and definitely not the same happy Kaylee anymore. Most of the other characters were about the same as the series except the doctor was more assertive (maybe even annoying) in the movie.

I recommend buying both. Wally world did have the Firefly series for $20; don't know if any are left, but that's a deal since most places are selling it for $30+

RON in PA
January 2, 2006, 02:12 AM
I now have the TV series and Serenity on DVD. Serenity seems "darker", less upbeat, but hits you in the gut with its libertarian message. The assassin's comments are perhaps the best anti-liberal, anti-socialist and anti-statist message I've seen in a long time.

henryiv
January 2, 2006, 07:15 PM
I finally got around to watching Serenity last night. I was not a fan of the TV show, so I was viewing the movie cold, not already a fan of the characters. I thought the movie was VERY uneven. It did have some good points, as have been discussed above. I liked the opening with the dream in a dream reveal. Joss remarks in his commentary that allowed a lot of exposition in a cool way. I also am a sucker for space opera movies, grew up watching star wars, ect. so am a good candidate to be a fan of this movie. I liked the message that total government control is a bad thing. I like that Mal is a dark, conflicted hero that shoots first. So I really dug many of the Themes of the movie.
However, there were enough problems with it that I could only recomend it as a movie to the right person. It is really made more for the Fanboy croud then a general audience. I wish it was a Western in theme, but less literally a western with low slung gunbelts and 1860s era revolvers. I just can't buy the guns of the movie at all. Colt dragoon revolvers, lever action shotguns with high power scopes, silly bolt bow contraptions really hurt my enjoyment. I little more realistic weapon design would be nice. Same with the western outfits, I wish it was a western in mentality, not clothing. Lots of fingers on triggers when out of danger, Torres was bad about this. I also hater the way Mal would choke up on his SA revolver, holding it by the cyl with his finger in the triggerguard.
I am suprised no one has mentioned the sometimes really stilted dialogue. How kaylee could say the "I ain't had nothing twixt my nethers...." line and now crack up is a wonder. So thumbs down for the dialogue.
I realise the movie was made with a limited budget, but the spaceship crash landings had a really poor sense of momentum and enertia for me. It seemed like the ship would hit the ground with hardly any forward momentum, and then proced to slide a really long way, knocking of parts, with no loss of forward speed due to friction.
I really do like this movie overall despite my gripes. Looks like I need to rent the TV series now. I only ever saw the one fox showed first, the train robers one. No a good way to start the series off at all.

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