What is going on in the UK???????? Disturbing newslink within.

I hope this is not a repost.

I came across this link on another site. I have no way to verify whether or not this actually happened as it is only a news story but if it did them I am stunned.

http://icsurreyonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/reigate/tm_objectid=16185712&method=full&siteid=50101&headline=boy--10--held-for-firing-a-toy-weapon-name_page.html

Are Brits really this scared of firearms?

Are these the same people that kicked the Nazis asses in the battle of Britian?

"Owen can be so impulsive. He would climb up a tree and not even think of the consequences."I have nothing to add to this quote.

The moron kid shot another kid. It doesn't matter that it was a toy gun. I know that some of those 'toy' guns can do real damage

I have no sympathy for him.

If it's like the gun I had that shot plastic pellets when I was a kid,I probably should have got the chair!!! :o

None of you guys ever got shot by a BB gun during your youths? Dang, y'all led sheltered lives.

This is just pathetic. Certainly he needs to learn, but I agree with his parents that the incident was blown WAY out of proportion, and handled badly by both the school and the police.
"At 10 years old a child is above the age of criminal responsibility and so a decision was made, with the full support of the school, to arrest the boy.
10 years old is above the age of criminal responsibility? Since when?
"ADHD is not an excuse to behave in this way ...
Obviously a statement from someone who has never lived with a child who has ADHD ... "excuse," no. "Reason," yes.

What? You expect the school and police to act with a bit of decorum and discretion? Sorry, more than their jobs are worth...

What's wrong with confiscating the gun, giving the kid the old 3rd degree about "...Putting someone's eye out..." and the rest?
I get the feeling that they just put him in a cell to shock some sense into him, which with a child with ADHD, isn't going to work...
Aside from Ritalin though, what would work?

Weimadog,
You never had BB gun fights as a kid?

You never had BB gun fights as a kid?

No. I was taught better than that. Pointing a gun at someone, BB or otherwise, was a straight trip to ass whipping time when I was 10.

And I certainly wasn't stupid enough to take one to school, even in the 70's before everyone was "afraid" of guns.

once 'procedure laid down' kicks in everyone is afraid to do anything other than follow the script. That way they can avoid blame when something goes wrong.
It's gone rather over the top; but the kid still deserves punishment for [i] taking a gun to school [ii] discharging it at someone.

What a crazy story, the kids in England today would never have made it through my elementary school. Heck, most US kids today would not make it either. I swear, our gym teacher thought it was his sole duty to prepare us for a battle against the communists.

For the record though, I never shot anyone with my BB gun. Of course, I was always a little more forward thinking than my peers and my first BB gun was actually a 10 pump .177 Benjamin pellet gun. That sucker would have caused some damage.

Cool, two posters who actually reside across the pond!

I fully agree that there should be recourse for bringing the gun to school. It was a stupid thing to do. But arresting him, fingerprinting him, taking a DNA sample, and locking him in a cell for 6 hours? That just strikes me as way to harsh, he is only 10 years old.

I agree that a simple ass whipping and taking the gun away for good would have been punishment enough to satisfy me.


Sorry if I offended any of you Brits with this post! :o

Just out of curiosity what exactly are the current laws regarding firearms ownership for you guys?

I don't see any difference between this and the 'zero tolerance' policy of most U.S. schools.

Well, if I had to end up in jail each time I shot a soft plastic pellet to somebody when I was a kid I would be serving a life sentence. No wait a minute: I took myself out of my misery as I even shot myself in the leg once (in purpose) to show I had the guts to do it...not smart may be but nobody suffered from these stunts...I think it is clear that the UK has a problem with EPPCB (Extremely Pathetic Politically Correct Bull????).

< edited: the pellets I was using were rubber or soft plastic [it's many years ago...] nothing hard>

Just out of curiosity what exactly are the current laws regarding firearms ownership for you guys?
This subject come up pretty often here, and I usually refer people to this explanation http://www.cybershooters.org/law.htm

More than a bit of an over reaction.

Sounds to me like they wanted the DNA and fingerprints in case they needed them later on (i.e. we had better keepan eye on this one). After all, the more data in the registry, the better to solve future crimes with, my dear.

Kj

they're taking DNA from all arrestees now, regardless of relevance, and retaining it.

Sounds like standard procedure in Airstrip One these days. I'm sure he'll be shunted off to room 101 in short order.

The moron kid shot another kid. It doesn't matter that it was a toy gun. I know that some of those 'toy' guns can do real damage

I have no sympathy for him.

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

It's gone rather over the top; but the kid still deserves punishment for [i] taking a gun to school [ii] discharging it at someone.

Er, it wasn't a "gun"; it was a toy. What's next, arrest for ten year olds with squirt guns?

"At 10 years old a child is above the age of criminal responsibility and so a decision was made, with the full support of the school, to arrest the boy.

Well then, I suppose ten year olds in England can effectively consent to having sex then? You cannot arrest only one person when two people consent to an act... :barf:

"ADHD is not an excuse to behave in this way ...

I agree. Being ten years old is an excuse to behave this way. :rolleyes:

There's a disconnect in philosophy between most of the people on this board. And it has to do with form vs. function. You know that for something to be a weapon, it has to function as a weapon. A gun that shoots plastic BBs is a toy. But it looks like a weapon, and that's enough for the people quoted in the article. If the form of something brings the thoughts and feelings that the sight of a weapon would bring, it's a weapon to them.

It's all about thoughts, perception, and feelings. Not actually whether or not it was a weapon.

It's a school. They're not exactly noted for being bastions of sanity.

Are these the same people that kicked the Nazis asses in the battle of Britian?

America saved Britain in World War II. The British might—might—have had the determination, but nothing like the means with which to fight their share of that war. We supplied first the means, then the troops and determination. As soon as the war was finished, the British turned their back on freedom and began to turn their nation into yet another socialist hell hole.

I believe we wasted a great many American lives and dollars on those bums.

and what do you call an englishman who wants freedom: american

and the rest who were worth a damn either emigrated to african colonies or were killed during WWI and WWII.

The uk is about to pass their latest anti gun law which will ban everything that looks like a gun.

All these articles you see now are propaganda to ensure the law does pass. I think the reading is in october and it should be in by january if not earlier.

but yes, they are pretty scared of liberties. :uhoh:

It's a school. They're not exactly noted for being bastions of sanity.Yeah they're all crazy in those places, good thing they're not influencing future generations at least! Wait, what? Oh...

All these articles you see now are propaganda to ensure the law does pass.If even the people who need convinced are such blissninnies that they'll be terrified by a story of a kid playing with a plastic pellet gun and climbing trees, you guys may as well just get your id chips and inhibition circuits implanted now and get it over with.

Owen has suffered with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) since the age of five.

Read my sig.


Now realize that Ayn Rand only got it half right.

The only other power government has is the power to crack down on the mentally ill. Well, when there aren't enough mentally ill one makes them. One declares so many behaviors to be a mental illness that it becomes impossible for men to live without being declared "insane".

i say it was a bit of a overreaction.

i remember being 10 years old. me and a friend were shooting bb guns in the backyard and he decided to take a shot at me when i was setting up targets. i returned fire with my bb gun out of instinct and since he only had a pump and i had a co2 semi auto i hit him 5 times and he never got a second shot.

my dad banned me from my own birthday party 3 days later. let all the other kids come and have a party at my house but i was grounded in my room and couldnt see anyone.

Coming to a school near you in 2008...

Read the post again, Standing Wolf - he said the "Battle of Britain", not WW2. That's the battle that occured over British skies. Before lend-lease. Fought by the RAF. Without American help. Where they did indeed "kick the Nazi's asses". All on their own.

And Standing Wolf, confed sailor, that's not the High Road, that's mindless xenophobia.

it's a wonder how America can ever find an ally that's ideologically pure enough to stomach fighting on the same battlefield with it.

A toy that cost around 6 dollars or so.
It probably wouldn't even hurt you with a point blank shot in the eye...
Not that I would like to be shot in the eye point blank with one...
Still! This is a huge over reaction, the kid knew it wouldn't hurt anyone even at close range. If you were to spank a kid for that then you yourself were spanked way to often as a kid and for no reason whatsoever.
now...
step away from the computer! :neener: :banghead: :cuss:

Remember, this is the country that wants to ban knives for being "too pointy".

Honestly, for thost Brits that read this thread, I really hope you can do something to stop the insanity. For me, watching Britain do this to itself is like watching a good friend become bulimic. After surviving so much, it is truly a shame that you are killing yourselves from within.

Yes, many parts of the U.S. is going down the same path. It doesn't make it right.

I agree with those who think this is WAAAYYY over the top. We need to take a lesson in this country and resist this kind of mindless zero-tolerance horse puckey.

Note this chilling excerpt from the news item:

"Mrs Smith and her son were taken to the police station where Owen had his fingerprints and DNA taken before being put into a cell."


How long before they start castrating boys who show any male tendencies whatsoever?

I haven't got a URL to offer, but there have been instances in the U.S.A. where the former high schools of serving members of the military refuse to publish a pic of the grads because (horror!) they are soldiers and are pictured as armed. Then there have been kids tossed out for pointing a chicken leg at a classmate.

We have to get real, here, folks. Yes, taking some kind of plastic pellet gun to school and shooting another kid merits a response in the form of punishment. But hooking and booking the kid, taking his prints, sampling his DNA and keeping him in a cell (even an unlocked one) for 4 hours is outrageous, dictatorial, tyrannical, and all the other things we didn't like about being British subjects prior to 1776.

Sheesh.

OK - I know you all been waiting for my 2 cents worth ! LOL

Unfortunate reality that misbehavior with a toy gun brings so much more attention than other mischief a 10 year old could get into.

No different here I think than in the UK , and if you don't believe that ,send your kids to school tomorrow with a toy gun and see how much attention your family will get.

It is a bit unfortunate also that the English people have lost so much of their personal rights when it comes to firearm ownership. Government control is a problem here as well and I don't blame the English citizen for the loss of their rights any more more than I blame my fellow citizens here for gun restrictions that go far behond what our constitution should allow them to.

The British government you think would have learned better during the war , when part of what happened is that US citizens sent their private firearms to England to help arm a population that were bravely fighting for their country.

We may be a lot less restrictive than England, but infringment is still infringment, and that is what we have allowed our government to do to us also . Give our government a bit more time and you will see the carnage they can perform on our personal freedoms as well.

Winston Churchill was right. WW2 was Britain's finest hour, it's been downhill ever since with no rock bottom in sight. :barf:

10 years old is above the age of criminal responsibility? Since when? In legal theory the inference is 7 year olds cannot be held liable for criminal acts (not that I agree or disagree). I believe it’s a left over from common law.

Similar reaction in many jurisdictions in this country. Not unique to GB at all. Sheep are the same everywhere.

Shock Horror! Foreign country chooses to run it's internal affairs on something other than American constitutional principles! :eek:

Mk VII -- please be aware that our government education system has its share of blissninnys as well. A lot of them...

I remember picking up our 13 year old at Junior high, since she was ill. I walked in, saw the nurses office, and saw her. Entered the nurses office, and I here a very snotty "excuse me!". Turned around and this pickle faced broad was staring right at me.

I asked her how I could help her, and she said "you have to sign in!", pushing a clipboard at me. There were no signs or notifications anywhere that required a sign in, nor was her desk in a position where you would assume she was a receptionist.

I smiled, signed in, handed the clipboard back to her, and leaned over. I told her "ma'am you have mistaken me for someone you can use that tone of voice with. Don't make the mistake again" while smiling at her. Her look was priceless.

We've got them on our side of the pond, too.. Don't take the criticism as an insult to your Nation. God Bless the Queen!

I can remember taking guns to school. It was for my A-Level Physics project; something to do with the penetration of ice blocks with air gun pellets.

Given that some schools in the US throw kids out for drawing a picture of a pistol, or for pointing a finger and saying, "Bang," I don't think we have a whole lot of room to talk about irrational behavior on the part of The Establishment.

Art

This is ridiculous, but
as Art just pointed out,we have the same problem here.

Did I ever tell y'all about being investigated for child endangerment for taking my son to a gun range on a Saturday.

A toy that cost around 6 dollars or so.
It probably wouldn't even hurt you with a point blank shot in the eye...
Not that I would like to be shot in the eye point blank with one...
...


Thanks for saying this. You US folks are talking about a BB gun, which is called an Airgun in the UK and is restricted by law. Read this:
http://www.airpistol.co.uk/airgun_law.htm
and understand that this was not a BB Gun but a toy capable of less than 1 ft/lb. It is even weaker than what you get as an Airsoft (of Soft Air) gun in the US.

I think the reaction of the police is insane, as this kid had nothing than a toy. I shot a lot of kids when I was a kid with toy guns, but never tried that with an air gun (or BB gun).

I wish people would stop bashing England and distorting WW2 every time something like this comes up. All it does is make the Britons on here defensive and prevent real discussion. I'm sure they're 50x more frustrated about this than we are, but nobody wants to hear their country bashed.

well, it was about time this board reran the "we-saved-your-asses-in nineteen-hundred-and-frozen-to-death-therefore-you-must-be-eternally-grateful-to-us-for-the-rest-
of-recorded-time-and-conform-to-our-wishes-in-all-things-great-and-small" argument again

well, it was about time this board reran the "we-saved-your-asses-in nineteen-hundred-and-frozen-to-death-therefore-you-must-be-eternally-grateful-to-us-for-the-rest-
of-recorded-time-and-conform-to-our-wishes-in-all-things-great-and-small" argument again

MKVII,

Read my post above- I am not demanding anything from Brits, I am truly saddend to see this insanity take over your country. It is in our country too, but as I said, that does not make it right.

I think a lot of people attack England over stories like this because,

a) they too, feel badly for "a good friend that is slowly killing themselves"

b) Europe is viewed as the source for a lot of the insane socialist laws and attitudes that are admittedly creeping into our country. One of the things we hear in the U.S. from our politicians is, "we should <insert socialist ideology here>. After all, that is what the Europeans do". This arguement is used to support everything from "free" socialized medicine to gun control. As a result, Americans are inclined to attack the source of our woes (perceived or otherwise).

There is a saying something to the effect that all ideas brought up and eventually discarded as worthless in Europe will be enshrined as gospel by American university professors. However true this may be, the disaster for the republic is that too many people have listened to them, and no one forced this on them.

As for the comments about the educational system, and speaking as someone who labored in that particular vineyard for over three decades while observing its decline, it's worse than you think. Public education is already a terminally ill patient in a hospice, and the deathwatch has begun. The right wants to mine the corpse of public education for funds so everyone can have tax vouchers to send their kids to private schools that will hopelessly polarize us in ten dozen directions, a modern-day Balkans. The left wants to continue the process of indoctrinating the children in "the school is mother, the school is father" and every other crock socialist notion imaginable, a process already well begun....the "nanny/helping" professions already moving to dominate the schools. This is evident in the episode with the toy pistol; the underlying agenda is to suppress the slightest spark of spirit in either boys or girls that is not expressed in absolutely approved channels. Either way, the result is disaster.

Note: my post may have wandered a bit off-topic, but hardly more so than those who have used it as a pretext to vent against and attack Great Britain. We should never forget that they ARE our friends; we have stood together through two world wars and a cold war, and we are -still- standing together as I write this. Our flags stand together, and long may they wave.

There is a saying something to the effect that all ideas brought up and eventually discarded as worthless in Europe will be enshrined as gospel by American university professors. However true this may be, the disaster for the republic is that too many people have listened to them, and no one forced this on them.



It's a cliché here that we take up ideas just as they are being discarded by American big business for newer ideas.

LOL... must be why we are one big dyfunctional family.

The arrest, and subsequent DNA sampling and fingerprinting is insane.

The kid's father musta got hit with a stupid stick though. Apparently he knew exactly what his kid would do with the toy gun. If that's the case, he should have supervised him more closely. Lack of good and responsible parenting is the problem with most kids today.... period.

Are Brits really this scared of firearms?

Are these the same people that kicked the Nazis asses in the battle of Britian?
Not long before I moved back to the US from the UK a Kid in the Local area I lived in was Arrested & given 6 months for "Brandishing a Squirt Gun".:barf:

The actual Charge was worded a lot more Fancy sounding "Inciting Fear with a Object Resembling a Firearm".

That Hoplophobic enough for you?

And some idiots wonder why I moved back to the US......:banghead:

When I Lived there I often wondered if the Nazi's somehow Secretly Annexed the UK....:scrutiny:

oh for the love of god ( :eek: "he said the g word!" :rolleyes: )

If anyone here should be arrested it should be the police for their dangerous stupidity. I got into a fight when I was 13 and the kids father called the cops on me....after his son attacks me that was really nice. So anyway cops get there they look at the guy like he grew an extra head. "Does your son need medical attention?" "No but that boy beat up my son!" "Who started the fight sir?" "Well my son did but" "Sir...do not waste our time agian" got the statements only cause they were required to and then even gave me a ride home and a pointer or two lol. Imagine some cops liek that being called for some BS like this? They would laugh. If I was a cop I would laugh.

Whats next shooting a watergun? Throwing a water ballon and making an explosion noise like ya just whacked um with a grenaid? Suction cups? Spraying someone with a hose?

Redicules. Whats next having your kid taken from you for child endangerment cause ya took him shooting at the range? Wonder how many kids get hurt at the range and how money end up with a concusion durring little league from geting a baseball on the head.

Our schools and police are just as insane. Remember the little girl who's up on felony assault charges for throwing a rock at some bullies?

havnt heard about that but it wouldn't surprise me

Whats next shooting a watergun? Throwing a water ballon and making an explosion noise like ya just whacked um with a grenaid? Suction cups? Spraying someone with a hose?

Redicules. Whats next having your kid taken from you for child endangerment cause ya took him shooting at the range? Wonder how many kids get hurt at the range and how money end up with a concusion durring little league from geting a baseball on the head.

Please see my previous post Link (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=1997061&postcount=50)