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Spiphel Rike
October 2, 2005, 01:49 AM
Would you carry a rifle on a sling in public if it was legal?

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Gordy Wesen
October 2, 2005, 02:39 AM
If I lived in Israel.

GD
October 2, 2005, 09:24 AM
Here in central Kansas during deer hunting season, you would see it all the time outside of metropolitan areas.

FPrice
October 2, 2005, 09:31 AM
Only if I felt I really needed one in a hurry.

loose cannon
October 2, 2005, 10:35 AM
depends on the rest of our society;if it was common id do it but since it isnt i carry the biggest handgun i can legally concealed.

slinging up a rifle would become a pita but the peace of mind knowing your well armed would be worth it to me.

when the shtf theres nothing like having a semiauto"homeland security rifle"in your hands

DMK
October 2, 2005, 10:39 AM
Open carry is legal in my state, but I don't walk around here with a pistol openly on my hip. Unfortunately, people get very upset about seeing guns carried openly, legal or not. I'd rather not attract unpleasant attention to myself.

Now if it was legal to carry one concealed, then I'd probably do so.

AirForceShooter
October 2, 2005, 12:06 PM
yep:
a strange question.

AFS

MM
October 2, 2005, 12:30 PM
As I live/work in an urban setting, I would carry a shotty if I thought necessary, but it does tend to "scare the horses".
SatCong

TexasRifleman
October 2, 2005, 12:32 PM
Well, here in Texas it IS legal to carry a long arm openly. Now, that's the penal code regulating firearms specifically. (municipal codes notwithstanding, they may have those in different cities, not mine).

Beyond that you have all of the "inciting panic" or "disturbing the peace" stuff that will come if you do this crazy thing. The sheeple will be "incited" and "disturbed" at the site of a slung rifle in public, I can assure you.

So to answer your strange question, No I do not carry a rifle on a sling in public where I live even though it is completely legal.

ID_shooting
October 2, 2005, 12:43 PM
It is and I have.

Fly320s
October 2, 2005, 01:02 PM
Yes, I would.

I'd prefer to carry a rifle in a car, just because I'm lazy. But when I leave my car, I'd rather have the rifle with me to prevent its theft, first, and to provide for my security, second.

As for scaring the public... ever heard of total immersion therapy? :evil:

Get enough people carrying guns openly, and soon enough people will be come accustomed.

gulogulo1970
October 2, 2005, 01:49 PM
It is legal here but I don't, not a very low profile thing for me to do, really.

Ringer
October 2, 2005, 02:23 PM
Today? No.

If conditions change answer could change.

yorec
October 2, 2005, 02:39 PM
Under normal everyday conditions for the the purpose of self defense? NO. Doing such simply makes you an advertised target. Concealed is unadvertised and keeps 'em guessing making everyone a little safer.

But to transport to other events like hunting, range, trainning, etc. Sure - do it all the time if I don't feel like getting out a case or have one readily available.

Gunpacker
October 2, 2005, 02:41 PM
Well, I am not a glutton for punishment, and carrying a highly unlikely needed rifle falls in the area of punishment to me. Now, in an urban setting, a pistol is likely to be adequate for close quarters defense. I would carry a handgun much more likely. Even a handgun on my person is punishment tho, and so I opt for carrying in my car. I can stick it in my belt if I feel I want some extra security. I just get tired of carrying concealed all the time. Now if I had a nice holster like Roy Rogers, I wouldn't mind carrying, but obviously, open carry causes problems in most places.

Keaner
October 2, 2005, 02:44 PM
I most likely would. If it were legal, and I wouldn't have people throwing holy water on me for doing it, I would sling my M1, and take it everywhere.

Think of it this way, we CONSTANTLY hear about people compaining about the poor balistics of Handguns. Heck, even a .45ACP is a pellet gun compared to most rifles.

If/When someone tries to kill everyone in my Cafe/Donut Shop, I would rather have my M1 at ready.

What is the old saying? A pistol is use to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have dropped?

Dionysusigma
October 2, 2005, 07:54 PM
Only if it's lightweight and goes with my shoes. :)






:D

I'll take an SU-16C or D9.

Kim
October 2, 2005, 09:24 PM
Yes and I have.

Rupestris
October 2, 2005, 09:24 PM
Yes, but only a lever gun...

..and if I could dress like a cowboy...

...and lay it on the bar at the local saloon... :D :p :D

mustanger98
October 2, 2005, 10:41 PM
The way I read the law in GA, it's perfectly legal to carry a rifle. May not be the socially expediant thing to do, as others have said. That said, there was one time I slung my M1 Garand and carried into the barber shop. My barber said she wanted to see it. :cool: :cool: :cool: Her son's a Marine as is her ex-husband and current husband, and we'd discussed Marines we know and she knew I had that one coming in from CMP. The barber shop had a few folks there that day and I just slung it and put on a big grin and went on in. Nobody said anything negative that time.

Rupestris:
Yes, but only a lever gun...

..and if I could dress like a cowboy...

...and lay it on the bar at the local saloon...

One of my Winchester lever action carbines has sling swivels. If I sling it muzzle down, I can get it into action as fast or faster than my sidearm. I always dress like a cowboy. Nobody seems to too suprised at anything I do. :D :D :D

Standing Wolf
October 2, 2005, 10:49 PM
What would I do with a rifle? I could probably hit the broad side of a barn with a rifle if I stood close enough, but I've always been considerably more accurate with hand guns, which I do carry openly.

Keaner
October 2, 2005, 11:50 PM
How do you become more accurate with a handgun over a rifle? I have difficulty shooting nice groups at 20 ft with the few handguns ive shot, yet my rifle i get 3 in groups at 25 yds. I would like to consider myself "normal" in that respect, and say that most people could be more accurate, and much more deadly with a rifle than wtih a handgun.

mustanger98
October 2, 2005, 11:59 PM
How do you become more accurate with a handgun over a rifle?

Ummm, practice??? Hmmm... I think we're onto something here. Whatever you practice the most with is what you will become good with.

I have difficulty shooting nice groups at 20 ft with the few handguns ive shot, yet my rifle i get 3 in groups at 25 yds. I would like to consider myself "normal" in that respect, and say that most people could be more accurate, and much more deadly with a rifle than wtih a handgun.

Hmmm... How much do you pratice with each weapon? What is this "normal" and who determines what is normal? How well does each weapon fit you personally? While I sometimes use a 25yd target to sight in a rifle, unless you're shooting a .22 rifle with really lousy irons at 25yds, I'm wondering why you're practicing with a rifle at that short distance. No, really, people can be just as deadly with a handgun as with a rifle.

Keaner
October 3, 2005, 12:47 AM
I admit, I have very little practice with a handgun, and shoot my M1 almost exclusively, but a rifle is inherently more accurate, I didn't think all the practice in the world with a Handgun could make you better than even a mediocre rifleman, just because of its increased accuracy.

BTW, I am shooting my M1 at only 25 yds because MA law sucks, and I am not permitted to remove the gun from the range, and no long range rifle ranges in the area have a place to store the rifle for me (vault style). This is the only way that I, a NJ resident, can shoot my M1 while at school in MA.

SMLE
October 3, 2005, 01:07 AM
I once carried a Kar98 Mauser into a local mall to go to a collector/militaria shop that was housed in said mall in order to get a bayonet for it. I bought the bayo, caried rifle into sandwich shop next door, had lunch and walked back to my car. :D

I once knew a fellow that rode around on his motorcycle with an AK slung across his back just to prove he could legally do so. :uhoh:

I have also walked around in public with a musket while wearing a civil war uniform. Of course I was in a group of re-encators at the time.

But to answer the original question; I would, but only if I felt I NEEDED to have a rifle handy. I have an NM CHL and go heeled all the time anyway.

Justin
October 3, 2005, 01:48 AM
There's a big difference between what is legal and what is socially acceptable.

mnrivrat
October 3, 2005, 02:11 AM
Hummmm ? Let me see ! NOPE ! Too darn heavy to carry around all day. I'll stick with a handgun.

res1b3uq
October 3, 2005, 02:39 AM
It's dove hunting season here, nobody pays any attention to long guns.

Spiphel Rike
October 3, 2005, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by fly320s

"Yes, I would.

I'd prefer to carry a rifle in a car, just because I'm lazy. But when I leave my car, I'd rather have the rifle with me to prevent its theft, first, and to provide for my security, second.

As for scaring the public... ever heard of total immersion therapy?

Get enough people carrying guns openly, and soon enough people will be come accustomed."

That was the effect I was thinking of.

Gunpacker
October 3, 2005, 01:11 PM
You are definitely wrong when you say that "no amount of practice" would make a handgunner as accurate as "an average rifleman". I have done extensive practicing with revolvers when competing in PPC and metallic silhouette. I have shot reliable 4 in. groups at 100 yds with revolvers using tuned loads. I have outshot my own rifle groups when shooting with revolver butt supported on my hands resting on the ground, and shooting a rifle from a prone position. Normally, semi autos won't do it. It is a rare standard semi that will shoot a 2 in group at 25 yds in my experience. Now granted, I would agree that an untrained person would shoot a rifle more accurately, since a rifle is going to be jerked off target less by a bad trigger pull. And additionally, I would shoot the rifle better if I actually supported it on a stable platform, such as leaning against a tree or resting on a solid forearm rest. I also know that the best riflemen can shoot better, using sling support and stiff shooting jackets etc. I carried a revolver for a long time on duty, and always felt that I could more than hold my own against an untrained rifleman for accuracy. Not necessarily in firepower. You can't argue against 30 round mags.

Keaner
October 3, 2005, 01:20 PM
You are definitely wrong when you say that "no amount of practice" would make a handgunner as accurate as "an average rifleman". I have done extensive practicing with revolvers when competing in PPC and metallic silhouette. I have shot reliable 4 in. groups at 100 yds with revolvers using tuned loads. I have outshot my own rifle groups when shooting with revolver butt supported on my hands resting on the ground, and shooting a rifle from a prone position. Normally, semi autos won't do it. It is a rare standard semi that will shoot a 2 in group at 25 yds in my experience. Now granted, I would agree that an untrained person would shoot a rifle more accurately, since a rifle is going to be jerked off target less by a bad trigger pull. And additionally, I would shoot the rifle better if I actually supported it on a stable platform, such as leaning against a tree or resting on a solid forearm rest. I also know that the best riflemen can shoot better, using sling support and stiff shooting jackets etc. I carried a revolver for a long time on duty, and always felt that I could more than hold my own against an untrained rifleman for accuracy. Not necessarily in firepower. You can't argue against 30 round mags.

OK, I stand corrected. Conceptually it didnt make sense that someone could take somethign with as short of a barrel as a handgun, and be anywhere near as accurate as a rifle. Although, I did not even take revolvers into consideration (failure on my part), I still have a hard time imagining how it would work.

I figured the poor accuracy of a handgun (again, I was thinking autos I guess, i have very little experience with revolvers) would make it impossible to shoot that accurately.

I am a VERY poor shot, and have only been shooting often 4 months or so, and feel that with my rifle, I could outshoot most handgunners (of course, there are exceptions).

Anyway, glad to hear about you, and thank you for correcting me.

Strings
October 3, 2005, 01:59 PM
Hmmm... I would actually have to say no, I wouldn't. A rifle is more of an offensive weapon: you can "reach out and touch someone" with it. I'd rather leave that in the car, and have a handgun with me...

Now, if I KNEW I was gonna need the rifle? I wouldn't go where I was planning on then... ;)

Dr.Rob
October 3, 2005, 02:07 PM
I have, in the sense of going from the range to the car, car to house etc... and out on 'public lands' like Nat. Forest, BLM, etc ... no problem.

Legal or not, slinging a "homeland security' rifle over your shoulder and heading down to the local Micky D's is just inviting trouble.

Andrew Rothman
October 3, 2005, 03:27 PM
Here in Minnesota, it is legal, with a carry permit, to carry as many short or long guns as you can tote at once. :)

I've never tried marching down Main St. thusly, but it's nice to know I could.

MachIVshooter
October 4, 2005, 09:18 PM
Here in Minnesota, it is legal, with a carry permit, to carry as many short or long guns as you can tote at once.

Same here in CO, though I haven't found a good way to conceal my AR-10A2 carbine without a trenchcoat. It's kinda heavy too.

Legal or not, slinging a "homeland security' rifle over your shoulder and heading down to the local Micky D's is just inviting trouble.

+1. While I wish it were an acceptable practice, openly carring an EBR is far from it. I have to admit that if I saw someone walking around with a long gun in an area where you don't expect it, I would give them my undivided attention and have my hand on my pistol the whole time. In this day and age, people toting rifles in public (at least those who are obviously not hunters) are usually bad news.

Open carry of a handgun is a bit more hazy. I have in the past, and out here it is acceptable (though it does draw attention). I have encountered LEO's while openly carrying and they remained professional. However, I have generally refrained from doing so in more urban environments simply to avoid the hastle.

That said, I definitely prefer to carry concealed. Not only is it more discreet from a public standpoint, it gives you the upper hand in a bad situation. If the BG knows you're armed, you are an immediate threat and therefore a target. I'd rather have the suprise element. Sure, open carry would deterr some criminals, but for those who are hellbent on committing a crime it would only mean you die first.

mustanger98
October 4, 2005, 10:39 PM
Quote:
Legal or not, slinging a "homeland security' rifle over your shoulder and heading down to the local Micky D's is just inviting trouble.

+1. While I wish it were an acceptable practice, openly carring an EBR is far from it. I have to admit that if I saw someone walking around with a long gun in an area where you don't expect it, I would give them my undivided attention and have my hand on my pistol the whole time. In this day and age, people toting rifles in public (at least those who are obviously not hunters) are usually bad news.

I just had to bring this one up, but I recall in another recent thread the discussion was about people who say "people who carry guns are looking for trouble." In my not-so-humble opinion, it don't matter whether it's a rifle, shotgun, sidearm, or anything else right down to bare hands; hunting trouble is hunting trouble and carrying for honest reasons is just that. I think the carrier's attitude is a factor in determining whether or not they're trouble or not. But if somebody just labels somebody as trouble because they're carrying, then they've just committed a grave error towards the fellow citizens. People, in general, carrying rifles in public are only bad news if you beleive everything you see on the 6o'clock news.

mustanger98
October 5, 2005, 02:27 AM
all I can say is that you must be slow with the pistol,

if you can lever an action or thumcock a hammer, AND shoulder a slung rifle as fast as you can draw. Is that draw from a concealed shoulder rig, groin rig, or ankle rig, or what?

The pistol is in a holster on my cartridge belt. The grip would be halfway between wrist and elbow. Having a shoulder that don't work like it used to don't help.

For the benefit of others, and I'm talking defensive use here:

The Winchester carbine is slung muzzle down with the butt behind the right shoulder. All it takes to get it into action is to bring the barrel forward with the right hand while rotating the weapon so the sling falls off the right shoulder. I bring my left hand to the action and fire from waist level (requires knowledge of instinctive shooting) for close in, then the butt to my left shoulder if a follow-up shot is needed. Or I can just shoulder it to begin with. I can rack the lever or thumb-cock and fire quite quickly. Racking the lever and firing from waist level can be sped up by tripping the trigger with the thumb- looks a lot like something Chuck Connors would do (except he had a screw in the lever to hit the trigger as he slammed it shut). I didn't invent this and neither did Hollywierd. I got some of my method from some historical articles Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote in Shooting Times.

nyresq
October 5, 2005, 03:22 AM
Having been to Israel for a few days for work, I saw both long arms and handguns worn openly, and I must say the handguns "looked" more common. The guys with rifles were off duty army guys and the ones with handguns were civilians. the rifles just looked odd.

Would I? probably not, but only because I can carry a handgun concealed. If I couldn't I'm not sure what my answer would be.

Telperion
October 5, 2005, 03:29 AM
Slung rifles tend to bang against merchandise when shopping. Getting in and out of the car is a pain.

benEzra
October 5, 2005, 12:10 PM
Generally, no. But in some cases, yes.

Camping in an isolated area deep within a national forest? Maybe.

Shopping? No way.

TonyB
October 5, 2005, 12:26 PM
I wouldn't...
1)too heavy
2)I suck with long guns
although I would drive a Bradley if I could ;) (a little better on gas than my Crown Vic.) :rolleyes:

Azrael256
October 5, 2005, 12:29 PM
In an urban setting, no. It's too much of a hassle, and it's not all that necessary. I would, and do, keep one in the car. I think a pistol is less hassle, and more appropriate for that setting.

Obviously I keep one on my person, or at least handy when I'm in a rural setting, particularly in an area with a serious wild/feral predator problem.

Now, were the entire country to go the way of Vermont, I would have no problem carrying a pistol openly, and would reserve concealed carry for when I have to look nice.

20cows
October 5, 2005, 01:10 PM
I had the "opportunity" to do this the other day. I had to park down the block from a gunsmith's shop and walked a little ways with a Win 94 Trapper. I got a few second looks, but no "alarms." But this is West Texas. :cool:

Sam
October 5, 2005, 02:53 PM
I had the opportunity to carry an M60 this way when my GOV (M1008) blew the lower radiator hose. Not having a way to secure it, I slung it and walked the 2 miles to the local Chevy dealer in Bountiful Utah. There was a history , that dealer had sold me a lemon S-10 and we had been disputing for a month or so.
Walk into the service department of your local unfriendly Chevy dealer with an M60 and watch them start crawling under desks and tables! Slipping and slidin' on a $#!T coated floor to get out of there :D.

When I travel by motorcycle or bike to hunt or shoot, I often sling up and go. When not carrying that way I have a saddle scabbard modded to fit a bike. Get funny looks sometimes but most people respond positively.

Sam

homely
October 5, 2005, 03:03 PM
Strange question # 2

Would you carry a compact nuclear weapon openly if it were legal? You know, in case the shtf or something.

MikeIsaj
October 5, 2005, 03:27 PM
Its legal in Pa. (the rifle, not the nuke) Even in Philadelphia if you have a carry permit.

Do I? No. 1. Rifles are cumbersome to carry and hard to set somewhere safe. 2. I don't want the extra attention from the blissninnies my town is infested with. 3. I believe a handgun is adequate to take care of the threats I may expect to encounter.

mustanger98
October 5, 2005, 05:03 PM
Strange question # 2

Would you carry a compact nuclear weapon openly if it were legal? You know, in case the shtf or something.

Think about it. If you see somebody carrying a compact nuke, the S has either started H-ingTF or it's about to.

Oh, and the military tried it with what is basically a nukular hand grenade. It proved itself very unfeasable in a hurry. The soldier had to dig himself a hole, throw the grenade, then jump down in the hole before it went off. The "Peter Pan" was so bad they scrapped it most hurriedly.

Dr.Rob
October 5, 2005, 05:44 PM
Back to reality...

It is NOT my opinion that people with rifles (or firearms of any kind) are all 'looking for trouble'... I'm saying if YOU were sitting at the local burger shack and someone came in with a rifle slung (say across the front tac-style) and wasn't dressed like a cop/swat guy etc YOUR situational awareness would likely jump a few notches too... and YOU are a gun guy. (And a good guy I might add.)

Now imagine the work a day sheeple on his/her lunch hour trying to cram a few thousand calories into their harried lunch break sitting outside the same diner, they see YOU, fair minded level headed ready for anything guy, leap at the ready from his tactically sound 4WD Urban Assault Vehicle, survey the landscape with steely eyes behind mirrored/tinted shooting glasses and SLING a rifle over your shoulder to go grab some chicken fingers. Some people might call that act threatening. Someone MIGHT call 911.

DON'T come crying to me when you make the evening news.

Because, lawfully or NOT, you are trying to prove some obscure point about people's perceptions... guess what? The last guy (that anyone remembers) who took an Uzi to a Micky D's shot the place up, the last guy that visited a playground (that anyone remembers) with an AK killed a bunch of kids... are you denying the fact that the people around you with kids (or without) just MIGHT 'situationally' read you as a threat because you have a rifle?

We don't live in Israel. We aren't talking about seeing someone in a rural area who might be involved in lawful hunting/target shooting etc.

We aren't talking about an SHTF scenario like NO... where I certainly can understand openly packing a long arm... just everyday getting by going to work doing your thing.

Mustanger98 brings up a good point ie--"I think the carrier's attitude is a factor in determining whether or not they're trouble or not."

But my question is what would your point be in carrying a rifle? (other than because you can) Because I certainly cannot gauge your attitude at 20 paces, nor could anyone else.

Gannet
October 5, 2005, 09:12 PM
I have a really hard time seeing how the free exercise of any part of the Bill of Rights in public is "threatening".

I know a lot of people do though, and not necessarily just about the 2nd Amendment. Something to ponder, if you ask me.

zahc
October 5, 2005, 09:42 PM
I seem to remember a guy here in OH carrying an shotgun around openly everywhere before we had CCW (might as well still because our CCW is worthless but anyway). I was going to carry a shotgun on one of the open carry marches (since I was under 21) but I never could make it to any of them.

Remember there a lot of adult people that can't own handguns because they are not 21 and live in communist states like Ohio that prohibit handgun ownership of under 21 peoples.

mustanger98
October 5, 2005, 10:25 PM
Dr.Rob:
It is NOT my opinion that people with rifles (or firearms of any kind) are all 'looking for trouble'... I'm saying if YOU were sitting at the local burger shack and someone came in with a rifle slung (say across the front tac-style) and wasn't dressed like a cop/swat guy etc YOUR situational awareness would likely jump a few notches too... and YOU are a gun guy. (And a good guy I might add.)

Good to hear "(gunpackers) are hunting trouble" ain't your opinion. Now, you bring up a good point about "across the front tac-style" carry of a rifle. But if a cop/swat guy came in like that, I think I'd figure something was up anyway. I mean, living in a rural/semirural area, I don't live with that on a daily basis. The cops seem a lot more peaceable here. Although I've seen a few Feds that kinda worried me. And rifles folks are liable to sling here are mostly deer rifles, although most of them get left in the truck unless they get to showing them around. Yeah, I'm a hunter too. Showing your rifle to your buddies and whoever else is interested seems to be part of it.

Now imagine the work a day sheeple on his/her lunch hour trying to cram a few thousand calories into their harried lunch break sitting outside the same diner, they see YOU, fair minded level headed ready for anything guy, leap at the ready from his tactically sound 4WD Urban Assault Vehicle, survey the landscape with steely eyes behind mirrored/tinted shooting glasses and SLING a rifle over your shoulder to go grab some chicken fingers. Some people might call that act threatening. Someone MIGHT call 911.

This is another scene we don't generally see around here. Mostly it's good ol' boys in pickup trucks with a gun rack in the rear window. I can imagine a bunch of city yuppies reacting though. Like I said though, the time I slung my M1 to carry into the barber shop, I just put on a big grin and carried on. Nobody seemed to think anything of it, but then they knew the barbers know me.

DON'T come crying to me when you make the evening news.

Seems I heard of some woman crying/whining about her boyfriend had a gun in his truck and she was scared to death they'd wind up on the 6o'clock news.

Because, lawfully or NOT, you are trying to prove some obscure point about people's perceptions... guess what? The last guy (that anyone remembers) who took an Uzi to a Micky D's shot the place up, the last guy that visited a playground (that anyone remembers) with an AK killed a bunch of kids... are you denying the fact that the people around you with kids (or without) just MIGHT 'situationally' read you as a threat because you have a rifle?

I remember the news reports about that. If you dwell on it too much, it'll make you either want to stay out of the McDonalds (probably a healthy idea), or go armed a little heavier against the time some idiot tries it again. Yet people go there unarmed or lightly armed and have no problems whatever. Nobody I know carries an Uzi or AK, at least a Class 3 version, in public.

We don't live in Israel. We aren't talking about seeing someone in a rural area who might be involved in lawful hunting/target shooting etc.

Nope. Actually, if we're talking about me and my neighbors, we might be talking about that very thing.

We aren't talking about an SHTF scenario like NO... where I certainly can understand openly packing a long arm... just everyday getting by going to work doing your thing.

Nope we sure ain't. And there's some things being armed ain't gonna prevent, although it may increase your chances of surviving. But the odds are so small of something really really bad happening that it pretty much negates the need to carry a rifle for defensive purposes.

Mustanger98 brings up a good point ie--"I think the carrier's attitude is a factor in determining whether or not they're trouble or not."

Thanks for noticing.

But my question is what would your point be in carrying a rifle? (other than because you can) Because I certainly cannot gauge your attitude at 20 paces, nor could anyone else.

I don't know about other people's points, but I'd have a couple of points if a situation set up so it was better to carry my rifle instead of leaving it outside on my horse or in my truck.

Gannet:
I have a really hard time seeing how the free exercise of any part of the Bill of Rights in public is "threatening".

I know a lot of people do though, and not necessarily just about the 2nd Amendment. Something to ponder, if you ask me.

I agree. While the Left will holler "1st Amendment" all day long, they'll scream foul when the Middle and Right excersize the same 1st Amendment Rights. Yeah, it's something to ponder. But I don't think, from watching FOXNews analisys, that there is an answer to this problem.

MikeIsaj
October 6, 2005, 11:06 AM
I have a really hard time seeing how the free exercise of any part of the Bill of Rights in public is "threatening". It is not threatening, and eventually you will make that point successfully. It may come at the end of a long conversation with the responding cop, or later in front of a judge. Possibly your lawyer may be successful in convincing the DA to see the light before your trial.

The reality is that in many if not most places, carrying a rifle wil get you unwanted attention. If you want to invest the time and money in being a test case, we will all appreciate it.

Pa. appears to be an open carry state. However, most LEO will tell you it isn't and when pressed to cite a statute, will usually go with disorderly conduct. DC requires them to establish your intent which is where the charge falls apart. All that being said, I do not want to be the precedent setting test case.

MachIVshooter
October 6, 2005, 11:52 PM
I just had to bring this one up, but I recall in another recent thread the discussion was about people who say "people who carry guns are looking for trouble." In my not-so-humble opinion, it don't matter whether it's a rifle, shotgun, sidearm, or anything else right down to bare hands; hunting trouble is hunting trouble and carrying for honest reasons is just that. I think the carrier's attitude is a factor in determining whether or not they're trouble or not. But if somebody just labels somebody as trouble because they're carrying, then they've just committed a grave error towards the fellow citizens. People, in general, carrying rifles in public are only bad news if you beleive everything you see on the 6o'clock news.

Rifles are offensive weapons in almost every concievable civilian combat scenario, barring ones home. I gaurantee I would have everyones full attention if I walked into a Wal-Mart with my AR10 slung over my shoulder, and would most likely have the police called on me. And all of us permit holders out there who are naturally (or should be) more vigilant than others would definitely exhibit an elevated level of alert. This point simply cannot be argued. And I'm not talking about a group of hunters walking into a local restaurant after a day in the field (though most would leave the rifles outside). I am speaking of carrying a more ominous appearing weapon in a location where it is not expected. I'm quite sure the reaction would be very different from a scoped wood and blue bolt rifle to a black on black M4gery. If someone walked into our shop with an AK, you can bet your a$$ I would be peeking around the corner with my pistol in my hand. The thought that he might be someone trying to prove a point would be a distant second to assessing him as an immediate threat and preparing for a confrontation. You would do the same thing. Why? Human nature.

I would love it if carrying rifles in public was a common and acceptable practice. But civic sensibility prohibits most of us from doing this, which pretty much leaves the evil doers. Hence the accompanying anxiety, even from very pro-gun folks.

Call me what you want for pointing out the obvious, but it is not only criminals,media and anti's who have caused people to view AR's, AK's and the like as being a greater threat than more traditional sporting arms. They have an obvious advantage for anti-personnel use. If they didn't, we wouldn't be using them for HD instead of our Model 700 .30-06. Such weapons were created for a very specific purpose, and everyone knows what it is. The fact that they are muti-faceted is irrelevant for this conversation.

nyresq
October 7, 2005, 03:28 AM
One of the things I will always remember from my trip to israel was the sight of young guys (late teens-early twenties) dressed up to go out club hopping in tel-aviv and actually dancing on the dance floor with an M-16 slung over thier backs. Very amusing to see a guy rocking out to 90's house/techno music doing "the robot" and the "running man" with an M-16 slung over his shoulder. :D

ghost squire
October 7, 2005, 03:45 AM
I once carried a Kar98 Mauser into a local mall to go to a collector/militaria shop that was housed in said mall in order to get a bayonet for it. I bought the bayo, caried rifle into sandwich shop next door, had lunch and walked back to my car.

Your streets must be bathed in the blood of the innocent and recently paroled!

Think of the children! :neener:

Oh what a perfect society you live in...

Nail Shooter
October 7, 2005, 07:44 AM
No reason for me to want to carry a long gun "in public" with things the way they are currently (exception being in the wilderness somewhere). That's a lot of weight to lug around!

If I perceived an elevated level of concern, might upgrade to my 10mm Glock w/ an extra 15rd mag--maybe some heavy Double Tap ammo too. A step of concern beyond that might be to carry one in my vehicle. My usual CCW carry is a compact 9mm, and I usually feel pretty comfortable with it for the places I go. Don't feel that I have to make a statement by carrying a long gun around.

Dr.Rob
October 7, 2005, 01:31 PM
My point is not the restriction of your rights, my point is excercising those rights can at times have consequences.

I was once pulled over on my bicycle (as a kid) with a.22 across my handlebars (rural AZ) no big deal. Officer wanted to make sure I wasn't up to no good, and sent me on my merry way.

Still that was 30 some years ago.

I've walked into a sportgoods store/gun shop with a rifle slung over my shoulder...as have many of us. I've bought breakfast exercising my right to open carry in Fort Collins and LaPotre and La Junta... (granted it was hunting season) I don't think it's such a good idea in downtown Denver. I've taken rifles handguns and shotguns all over the place for photoshoots (geurilla style) for magazines and newspapers but I'm always careful.

I'm simply sugesting you use some common sense before heading out to home depot loaded for bear.

mustanger98
October 7, 2005, 04:51 PM
Call me what you want for pointing out the obvious, but it is not only criminals,media and anti's who have caused people to view AR's, AK's and the like as being a greater threat than more traditional sporting arms. They have an obvious advantage for anti-personnel use. If they didn't, we wouldn't be using them for HD instead of our Model 700 .30-06. Such weapons were created for a very specific purpose, and everyone knows what it is. The fact that they are muti-faceted is irrelevant for this conversation.

MachIVshooter, Re-read the entirety of my last post. We both, I think, have points. I don't want to call you anything, but I do beleive we're dealing with different circumstances. If if I must defend my life/home/family, if I have a deer rifle to hand rather than my Garand, the deer rifle is what I'll use. I bet most of us are that way. That's human nature too.

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