[Bubbles]

Ouch. Thousands of Virginia gun owners are VCDL members, and many more subscribe to their email alert list. This is the group that got shall-issue concealed carry passed in 1995, and deserves a great deal of the credit for all of the gains (pre-emption, permit holders are exempt from one gun a month, etc) made since then.

Also, when gun bills are up for a vote in committee at the General Assembly, several dozen VCDL members take a day off work to speak on them. This is a hard-core state-level group in line with GOA's philosophies on gun control.

Unless an apology comes quickly, I expect a lot of undervotes in the Governor's race.

------------------

Sitting down? I wish I had been when reporter Christina Bellantoni gave me this quote on Friday:

"While we have great respect for the members of the VCDL, their President
Phillip Van Cleave unfortunately has no credibility on Second Amendment
issues and that is why we did not participate [in the VCDL Candidate Survey],"
Mr. Martin [Kilgore campaign spokesman] said, declining to elaborate.

Well, here we go again. Kilgore's campaign workers continue to make up a different excuse each week for not filling in the VCDL survey. Let's see, so far they have said:

* Kilgore has never received the survey (but it was handed to him personally, sent certified mail, and emailed to him).
* There was one question that Kilgore didn't want to take a position on and that was why he declined to answer any of the questions.
* The survey was on Kilgore's desk awaiting his signature.
* Philip Van Cleave is too hard to work with.
* The NRA survey and the VCDL survey are the same and they didn't see why both needed to be answered. (I have seen the NRA survey and it is nothing like the VCDL survey.)
* Philip Van Cleave is antagonistic because he said the Kilgore campaign is following the Earley playbook. And now:
* Philip Van Cleave has no credibility on Second Amendment issues

Looking at all the personal attacks on me by the Kilgore campaign staffers (three so far and counting), it looks like they are hoping to drive a political wedge between you and me.

All I can say at this point is that Jerry Kilgore needs to reign in his campaign worker's overactive imaginations and fill in the VCDL survey. Time is running out - VCDL will not accept any new surveys the second that the existing surveys are posted on the VCDL site. To do so would be unfair to the other candidates. The surveys and voting records of candidates will be posted the week of October 10th for you to evaluate.

I would like to thank the House Majority Leader, Deletate Morgan Griffith (Salem), for his kind words.

If you would like o contact the Kilgore campaign, here is Carrie Cantrel's email (she is his policy director as I recall):

carrie@jerrykilgore.com

Reporter Christina Bellantoni did an excellent job in covering the issues:

Washington Times - Full Story (http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20050930-110728-7266r.htm)

[Lemon Tetra]

I received an email from the Republicans to do some cold calling on Kilgore's behalf on Sept 24. Usually, I participate since it costs me nothing except time (I'm on an unlimited calling plan). I made 100 calls to FL on behalf of Pres. Bush the weekend before the election.

I didn't do the calls due to other obiligations that day and I wanted to find out more about Kilgore's positions on the 2nd Amendment. Based on the comments made about the VCDL and his refusal to do the survey, I won't be making the calls.

[Cacique500]

I can't figure this one...supposedly he's got the NRA backing but to put down the VCDL like they did was pretty stupid IMHO.

I definitely won't be voting for Kilgore unless he retracts the statements made by his staff.

[Bruce H]

Virginia voters should show Kilgores political ambitions a brick wall at very high speed.

[Poodleshooter]

The unfortunate follow up to voting for another candidate is supporting Tim Kaine or Russ Potts. Personally I support Kilgore for other reasons, but I'll write my letter anyway.
It's very odd that they singled out PvC and not VCDL. Did he piss off some higher up staffer?

[Titus]

I've emailed the campaign and got a response from Ken Hutcheson that didn't answer my question at all (that is, was the quote accurate). I tried calling their main and one of the branch campaign offices and couldn't get anyone to answer my question either. So Tim Kaine it is!

[dasmi]

I tried calling their main and one of the branch campaign offices and couldn't get anyone to answer my question either. So Tim Kaine it is!
Make sure you call and let them know you're voting for the opposition, and why.

[Dan0076]

I wrote the campaign also urging Kilgore to complete the survey. With a snub like that I won't vote for Kilgore unless an apology is made, doubtful, or the survey is completed.

My personal opinion is that the campaign has a pact with the NRA specifically to blow off VCDL.

My plans as of now are a write-in for gov. --- Philip Van Cleave

[Titus]

Make sure you call and let them know you're voting for the opposition, and why.

I also tried calling another one of the regional campaign offices and they said they didn't know anything about anything Tucker Martin might be saying. I tried calling VA GOP headquarters but they didn't answer the phone. I let one of the folks at one of the regional offices know I'm voting for Kaine, once it became obvious no one was going to answer the question and emailed Carrie Cantrel.

I feel I gave them the opportunity to either say, "We were misquoted" or lay some unknown facts on me as to why they would make such an outlandish claim. Now I have to ask, what the heck are they smoking?

[cuchulainn]

That wasn't very smart.

[crucible]

Kilgore just lost me as well with his blatent display of arrogance here (just wait until he gets any kind of power folks if he's this bad now).

Kaine 2nd position from his website:

"Tim Kaine strongly supports the Second Amendment. As the next Governor of Virginia, he will not propose any new gun laws. Instead Tim Kaine will guarantee strict enforcement of our existing criminal laws. He will also expand the use of such enforcement strategies as Project Exile that target criminals who use guns rather than law-abiding gun owners."

Actually, I'd like to thank Kilgore for his arrogance: it forced me to look at Kaine's details, and as it turns out, they're not that bad at all if the above is any indication (though he must be watched for tax hikes...Kilgore has got him with Kaine's comments of raising gas taxes and his record for the MMM buses, etc).

I can't believe it-voting Demoncrat is a true possibility for me.

Oh yeah Mr. Kilgore, I'm also a lifetime member of the NRA-you don't have my vote sir.

Chris

[Desertdog]

Don't Get Even, Get Ahead!
Run your own VCDL candidate against him in the primary. :evil:

[Titus]

I'm not sure I trust Kaine, but if he were to stick to Governor Warner's way of not introducing new gun control and signing pretty much every pro-gun bill, I could live with that. Anyway, I'm not voting for anyone who talks that way about VCDL. I'll write in Phillip VanCleave with Dan0076. :)

[Standing Wolf]

Phillip Van Cleave unfortunately has no credibility on Second Amendment issues

Clearly, the man's a complete fool.

[LAR-15]

I bet Tim Kaine repeals that ban on 'street sweepers'

[Bubbles]

My plans as of now are a write-in for gov. --- Philip Van Cleave

+1.

[Leatherneck]

Kilgore's arrogant attitude has irked me before. I mean, who in Hell refers to himself as "The Honorable" in correspondence asking for money? And now, this imbecile of a staffer sinking to the level of personal attacks on Phil VanCleave! Incredible. PVC would make hash out of Martin in a debate about RKBA. Methinks that comment just cost Kilgore about 10,000 votes. Tough.

TC

[Titus]

Today's update from VCDL points out that Kilgore's website removed most of their contact addresses, and added a "Second Amendment" link on the front page. I did mention to them (Kilgore's campaign) when I originally contacted them that Tim Kaine's website specifically mentioned the 2nd while they did not. Gee, now I'm not insulted anymore... :rolleyes:

I also contacted the Republican Party of Virginia (http://www.rpv.org) to see what they had to say about it.

[JohnBT]

"My plans as of now are a write-in for gov. --- Philip Van Cleave"

You know... :)

John

[JohnBT]

"Tim Kaine strongly supports the Second Amendment."

Is this the same Tim Kaine who as Mayor of Richmond spent city money to send buses to the MMM and had to pay it back out of private funds? Hmmm?

Of course it is.

John

[XLMiguel]

:fire: :fire: :fire: :banghead:

[JohnBT]

"As Mayor of Richmond, Tim Kaine wanted to sue firearm manufacturers. In explaining why he asked the city attorney for an opinion on whether Richmond could join other city mayors in suing firearm manufacturers, he said the mayors wanted gun makers to “hand over a bunch of money."

vasportsmen.org

[Bubbles]

In about an hour Kilgore's going to be in Winchester for a "Sportsman for Kilgore" event. I know several VCDL folks planning to attend. It should be interesting...

[MBG]

Bubbles,

Please update when info is available. To my knowledge, the Kilgore campaign has not responded to any e-mails, letters or phone calls on the topic since the alert came out. (Certainly not to any that I've put in.)

Marty

[Bubbles]

This is info my husband posted on another board. He finally got the Kilgore campaign to respond to him. He's a District Chair on one of the county-level Republican committees, which is an elected position within the GOP. I suspect that may be why he got a callback where few others have...


I spoke to two different people today (call backs from messages I've left over the past 3 days) about the situation at Kilgore's campaign office. Both high up in the campaign and obviously neither has consulted the other. Here is what I have gleaned from both of my conversations...

1. It's a personal vendetta against Philip. They don't care if they lose the VCDL/gun vote. I got the impression that they are banking on gun owners being so disgusted with Kaine that Kilgore will automatically get the vote. They are taking us for granted.

2. I was lied to by one of the people I spoke to. One claimed that the multiple excuses given by Kilgore on the survey were made up by Philip and VCDL while the other person flat out told me that all of the reasons were correct. You figure it out I'm too pissed to keep mulling on it.

3. Kilgore and his campaign will not fill out the VCDL survey. They will not back down from their position on the matter and they will not issue an apology to Philip Van Cleave for the defamation of character.

4. I was told that gun rights is not even close to being a hot button issue and that other issues were more important.

5. Kilgore is taking credit for the efforts put forth by Philip Van Cleave. Both people I spoke to said that it was Kilgore that got things passed and that Philip contributed nothing. This is a bald faced lie because I've stood at Philip's side in Richmond before the Militia and Police Committee fighting for our rights and I sure as hell didn't see Kilgore there.

There you have it gang... take it as you will. There's more but before I post it, I have a few decisions to make. I'll just say that after the two conversations today, nothing Kilgore can do will win my vote back... unless he leads the successful charge to repeal the 86 MG ban before the election... like that will ever happen.

I'm looking forward the the Washington Times article coming out Friday. It should wake a few people up.

BTW here is the article:

Kilgore Picks Up NRA Support (http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20051006-103649-4669r.htm)

[Desertdog]

Sounds like they really need a write-in campaign for Philip Van Cleave.

Sweet justice if Kilgore could lose because of a write-in candidate that he dismissed as a nothing.

[MBG]

Thanks for the update Bubbles.

This is an unfortunate turn of events for VA state politics.

Marty

[Dan from MI]

I'm not familiar with VCDL, but this is dumb politics. VERY dumb.

I have a bit of a feud with one gun organization, or more specifically, an individual at the top of their org. I'd still fill out that survey and keep my trap shut about them if I was running for office.

And I'd certainly fill out the NRA, GOA, SAFR, and any other gun survey.

[Cacique500]

I sent an email to Ken Hutchesen asking if they were going to apologize to PVC. I also told him that I'm pretty much a single issue voter (2nd Amendment).

His response was that if I was a one issue voter that Kilgore is my only choice.

Well Mr. Hutchesen, instead of winning my vote, you still may not get it. It's pretty stupid to assume that I'm going to vote for Kilgore by default...that's not how it works.

All it would take is one simple apology to PVC and the VCDL and all would be well.

[Titus]

Is there going to be a Kilgore booth at the VGCA show this weekend?

[spartacus2002]

I heard on Arfcom that there will be a Kilgore booth at the gunshow.

I will write in PVC for guvnor.

[marley]

When Kaine was the mayor of richmond he stole taxpayer money to bus people up to the Million mom march in DC. He did pay it back. Why would you vote for him? Patrick

[JohnBT]

Don't be too hard on Tim, he's a nice man, I've met him.

I didn't say I'd vote for him. :)

John

[jeff-10]

Find out who the Brady Campaign to Prevent Handgun Violence (or whatever they call themselves these days) endorses and vote for the other guy. Thats generally what I do.

[marley]

Yes Tim is a nice man. I have met him as well. I won't vote for him. He was made to pay the money back. He got caught. I am luke warm on Kilgore. He is much better than Kaine. Patrick

[XLMiguel]

I got a mailing from the NRA today with two "Vote Freedom First/Jerry Kilgore" bumper stickers and a letter pushing Kilgore/Bolling over Kaine/Ding-dong Lady, listing Kaine's 'sins', including MMM bussing and joining the anti-firearm mfr lawsuit as mare (sic) of Richmond. Kind of a no-brainer, makes a pretty good case, but I'm still annoyed over the slur against Phil Van Cleave :fire:

I'd write in for Phil to send 'em a msg, but I'm not taking any chances . . . I'll find a way to get the point across later -

[Hobie]

I also wrote the Kilgore campaign expressing my concerns about this. No response. I don't guess that they think that those 10,000 members of VCDL might be 18,000 or more votes when members talk to spouses, children of voting age, parents, friends, etc.

[Titus]

I'll find a way to get the point across later -

Any suggestions?

I've only found one person with the campaign willing to answer any questions at all, and he couldn't tell me why I should trust a guy to do anything for me AFTER he gets elected when he's specifically running against me. Especially if I go ahead and give him my vote! At least give me some non-crack-smoking reason why you can't spare two minutes to fill out the VCDL survey.

I've thrown so many softballs at the Kilgore campaign, trying to get something better out of them than "You'll hate the other guy more", that I'm going to take them at their word that they don't want my vote and volunteer with the Kaine campaign.

[Leatherneck]

If, as reported by Bubbles' husband, the Kilgore campaign really believes this:4. I was told that gun rights is not even close to being a hot button issue and that other issues were more important. then they are clueless about Virginia politics. I hope they go down in flames. Hard. Arrogant plicks. :cuss:

TC