"No Target Shooting" California National Forest


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Pietro Beretta
October 3, 2005, 03:20 PM
I just got back from a shooting spot I always go to in the Los Padres N.F. in California.

Their was a sign posted, NO TAREGET SHOOTING. Now I know they do this when fire season sets in and the risk of fire is high.

However when talking to the ranger posted their, he mentiond to me that "they" were going to ban Target Shooting in any National Forest in California at all times from now on PERIOD.

Does anyone know if this is the truth or not.

Where in the hell am I supposed to go and shoot my rifles now?! I am not a hunter, I dont like the gamey taste.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH any info would be helpful. Im looking for details myself but cant find any.....

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Amish_Bill
October 3, 2005, 03:25 PM
I thought the National Forrest areas were pure Federal jurisdiction. Was that a State or Fed guy telling you this?

Luchtaine
October 3, 2005, 03:28 PM
yeah the state shouldn't be able to do jack about national forest. I go to a range run by Fish and game up in arrowhead but its only 200 yards.

dasmi
October 3, 2005, 03:36 PM
I go to a range run by Fish and game up in arrowhead but its only 200 yards.
Would you mind PMing me and telling me where it is? I'm up in Arrowhead three or four times a year for vacation, and a place to shoot would be great.

thorn726
October 3, 2005, 03:37 PM
well eldorado forest web site hasnt changed-
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/recreation/shooting.html

Pietro Beretta
October 3, 2005, 04:54 PM
The person who told me this was a (snobby) Forest Ranger.

Oh and he was sure to check all my firearms I was carrying were legal, Bastard! (Of course they are legal)

Ok I found an article HERE
News Releases: 2005

News Release
USDA Forest Service

Los Padres National Forest

Contact: Mary Blair, (805) 646-4348 x 317 or Joe Pasinato 805-961-5745
Date: September 20, 2005


Further Fire Restrictions in Effect September 24 in Los Padres National Forest

In response to increasing fire danger, Los Padres National Forest officials today announced that they are imposing additional fire restrictions throughout the forest beginning Saturday, September 24.

Current restrictions affect the use of campfires, stoves, smoking materials and the operation of internal combustion engines. Beginning on Saturday September 24, recreational target shooting will be prohibited in Los Padres National Forest except at the Winchester Gun Club in Santa Barbara County and the Ojai Valley Gun Club in Ventura County. Hunting, with a valid State of California hunting permit, is exempt from this restriction. These restrictions will remain in effect until fire season ends, probably in late autumn after two inches of rain.

The following will be in effect until the close of fire season.

Open fires, campfires or charcoal fires will not be permitted outside of designated Campfire Use Sites, even with a valid California Campfire Permit.

Lanterns and portable stoves using gas, jellied petroleum or pressurized liquid fuel will be permitted outside of designated Campfire Use Sites, but only with a valid California Campfire Permit (available free-of-charge at any Forest Service office).

Forest visitors must clear all flammable material for a distance of five feet in all directions from their camp stove, have a shovel available, and ensure that a responsible person attends the stove at all times when it is in use.

Smoking will not be permitted, except within an enclosed vehicle, building, or at a Campfire Use Site.

Internal combustion engines may be operated only on roads or trails that are designated for such use (this restriction is in effect year-round). Please make sure your engine is tuned, operating properly and has an approved spark arrester.

All recreational target shooting in the forest will be prohibited, except at the Winchester Gun Club and the Ojai Valley Gun Club. (No where near me)

Forest Supervisor Gloria Brown cited the dry conditions, low live fuel moistures, and extreme fire danger in her decision to prohibit target shooting in most areas of the national forest. "Unfortunately, we have had several wildfires result from target shooting in recent years," explained Brown. "A bullet striking an object like a rock, could easily spark a wildfire with the abundant grass growth this year".

Recently, a number of unattended campfires have been reported. Visitors are reminded that campfires must be attended at all times, and completely extinguished prior to departing from a campsite, even for a short period of time.

For a list of Developed Recreation Sites and Campfire Use Sites (see attached) in Los Padres National Forest, or further information regarding fire-safe camping, contact your nearest Forest Service office or visit the "Recreation Activities" section of Los Padres National Forest website.

I called their number at the top, and it is for the CURRENT fire season for Los Padres. Thankfully, I got a little scarrred right Tharr!

J Miller
October 3, 2005, 05:47 PM
It's an epidemic. The NFS closed a big section of the National Forest near Phoenix about 5 years ago. They are just one big anti-gun organization.

Yet they allow the quads to tear the forest all to shreads. Go figure.


Joe

thorn726
October 3, 2005, 07:08 PM
ok after reading all this, you guys gotta get over it.

Smoking will not be permitted, except within an enclosed vehicle, building, or at a Campfire Use Site.

Internal combustion engines may be operated only on roads or trails that are designated for such use (this restriction is in effect year-round). Please make sure your engine is tuned, operating properly and has an approved spark arrester.

"Yet they allow the quads to tear the forest all to shreads. Go figure."

is incorrect.

theyre having really bad fires already. what do you really expect. you cant even smoke cigarettes in the woods right now.
AND it has a clear end- 2 inches of rain (basically one good storm) and the ban is lifted. considering it is already october, you are WAY overreacting.

notice there is no such ban up north either

Nimitz
October 3, 2005, 08:34 PM
I thought firearms and national forrest = big no no?

Chad

rick_reno
October 3, 2005, 08:44 PM
I'd get his/her name and write my Congressman - assuming you have one that might support you.

Standing Wolf
October 3, 2005, 09:31 PM
No shortage of wannabe little Hitlers, I guess.

Shield529
October 3, 2005, 09:39 PM
Hitler????? Over a temporary ban to prevent fires.
This rule is common sence not abuse of power. This forum is getting a little overboard with the hatred of any law or authorety(sic).

Amish_Bill
October 3, 2005, 11:36 PM
The explanation of this being a temporary measure because of fire hazzard makes it much less inflamatory than how it initially sounded.

0007
October 4, 2005, 12:01 AM
Best don't hold your breath waiting for it to be recended after fire season.

Car Knocker
October 4, 2005, 12:13 AM
Nimitz, I bet you're thinking about National Parks. National Forests are a whole different ball game.

No_Brakes23
October 4, 2005, 12:37 AM
Standing Wolf wins the Godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) prize in only 11 comments.

Standing Wolf
October 4, 2005, 12:44 AM
What, pray, does target shooting have to do with forest fires? It's okay to build fires, but not shoot at targets?

Yeah. Right.

I'd say it's just one more way government does its best—or "worst," as the case may be—to keep commoners from making use of the nation's forests.

Shield529
October 4, 2005, 12:53 AM
Not ok to build fires, it's right there in the rules:
"Open fires, campfires or charcoal fires will not be permitted outside of designated Campfire Use Sites, even with a valid California Campfire Permit".

No such rules in the forests here. It happens during fire season in several states every year.

Standing Wolf I am begining to worry about you.

Standing Wolf
October 4, 2005, 07:10 PM
Standing Wolf I am begining to worry about you.

Be careful, eh? So did my mother, but look what happened to her.

Nimitz
October 4, 2005, 07:23 PM
Nimitz, I bet you're thinking about National Parks. National Forests are a whole different ball gam

Thanks for the clarifcation...are many national forests also national parks?...

Chad

junyo
October 4, 2005, 07:50 PM
Of course the stupid thing about it is that forest fires are part of the natural cycle of the forest, inevitable, and healthy for the environment. Controlled, scheduled burns would clear the underbrush that fuels the widespread and more highly destructive wild fires, and limit the recreational downtime/inconvenience to wildlands users. But instead, we'll spend a boatload of money to try and keep everybody and their uncle from creating a spark in within a few gazillion acres of forest and allow the underbrush more time to grow until it'll cost millions to fight the blaze and repair the damge when a lightning strike torches it anyway.

STW
October 4, 2005, 08:01 PM
What, pray, does target shooting have to do with forest fires?

The Lytle Creek fire of 1970 was caused (as I recall) by a ricochet while someone was shooting in the area.

It doesn't take much when the SoCal mountains want to burn.

Car Knocker
October 4, 2005, 09:44 PM
Nimitz,

I"m not aware of any dual designations. Parks and forests are managed by different agencies and to different purposes. A NF can become a NP, but I doubt the reverse would ever happen. NFs often abut NPs and serve as buffers with civilizations.

No_Brakes23
October 4, 2005, 11:19 PM
Controlled, scheduled burns would clear the underbrush that fuels the widespread and more highly destructive wild fires Yup. And our failure to do that in Cali costs us in that we inevitibly have insane fires every autumn or summer.

I have had to evac from two already, (Laguna '93, San Diego '03)

El Rojo
October 5, 2005, 02:57 AM
Shooting can cause sparks and fires, especially when people are dumb about it. However, hunters cause fires too, like the guy who started one of the big PRK fires last year after he got lost deer hunting and started a fire as a signal. I have been dealing with fire restrictions in the forrest for a while now. I don't get upset about it, that is just the way it is late in the fire season. They will resend that just as soon as it starts snowing or raining, so why worry? It has not proven to be a slippery slope.

thorn726
October 5, 2005, 03:41 AM
Nimitz,
I"m not aware of any dual designations. Parks and forests are managed by different agencies and to different purposes. A NF can become a NP, but I doubt the reverse would ever happen. NFs often abut NPs and serve as buffers with civilizations.

+1 for that and the bold type, and to kinda add- for example, yosemite is entirely within a national forest, as are many other NPs.

some people will tell you another name for National Forest, which further explains why they will pretty much ALWAYS be national forest, even after people populate them- there are roads and towns entirely within national forsests, small pieces are converted for habitation.

the other term for National Forest=
TREE FARM.

and considering at this point 90% of the trees were planted by some logging company, you can bet they aint gonna give em up- which is a good thing in some ways..

Nimitz
October 5, 2005, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the info guys...learn something new everyday.

Chad

J Miller
October 5, 2005, 12:54 PM
thorn726
Senior Member



Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: berkeley, CA
Posts: 1,004 ok after reading all this, you guys gotta get over it.

Quote:
Smoking will not be permitted, except within an enclosed vehicle, building, or at a Campfire Use Site.

Internal combustion engines may be operated only on roads or trails that are designated for such use (this restriction is in effect year-round). Please make sure your engine is tuned, operating properly and has an approved spark arrester.



"Yet they allow the quads to tear the forest all to shreads. Go figure."

is incorrect.

theyre having really bad fires already. what do you really expect. you cant even smoke cigarettes in the woods right now.
AND it has a clear end- 2 inches of rain (basically one good storm) and the ban is lifted. considering it is already october, you are WAY overreacting.

notice there is no such ban up north either

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=293831

This is the sign I was refering to. This is NO temporary closure due to fire hazards. This area is in an area of the Tonto National Forest NE of Phoenix.
The area is desert, not pine or other tree areas.
Contrary to the text of this sign it is not, and never was congested. EXCEPT by the idiots on the quads that have destroyed this area. During the last several years I lived in Phoenix I WAS IN this area two to three times a week. Usually I was one of a dozen or so people within a hundred square miles of empty desert.
Yet come the weekends, there was one company who rented quads that brought a double deck trailer loaded with the things and parked. They would rent the quads to anybody and every body, and even stage "tours" where 10 to 15 of the things would travel on undesignated "roads" for miles in every direction.
Others privately owned have chewed ruts up and down the hills in this area to the point it looks like scars on a torn up body. The area will never be the same.

I left Phx in '99. Returned in '02 for a visit. In those three years this area has been devestated by the morons on the quads and dirt bikes. This is no flame against those who use these vehicles responsibly, just a fact.

On the day I took the pic, there was 6, count us, SIX people in this entire area. Myself and my two stepsons were three of them.

CONGESTED MY @$$.

Just bureacracy gone berzerk.

Joe

GunGoBoom
October 5, 2005, 01:36 PM
First of all, the answer to your question is that you'll have to join a gun club/range, or use public ranges, until you can afford to buy your own piece of terra firma.

Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree that a national forest, national park, state forest, or state park are NOT the places to be *target* shooting, since they are designed to be pristine preserves of nature for public enjoyment (you and me), and target ranges end up considerably polluted & littered (invariably) with lead, busted targets, shell casings, paper, etc. So unless they have the BUDGET to fully manage/maintain the range, including cleanup, oversight, etc., then hey, let's all do our part and shoot somewhere other than one of the last bastions of natural preserve. And that doesn't even address safety concerns.

P.S. The venison (from a whitetail doe thigh) I ground up into hamburger last night and made some hamburger helper beef stroganoff with, tastes *exactly* like high-quality beef. It's a matter of the type of game, their foodsource, the processing specifics, & recipe preparation that makes the game taste 'gamey' or not. I cut off the fat, which is where most of the funkiness is located. So I'd say look into hunting perhaps as a possible hobby. I fully agree that national forests must remain open to hunters. Hunting activities, properly managed, don't contribute to the pollution and eyesore-ness like an unkempt target range (or just willy nilly target shooting). The average joe sixpack (unlike you, I'm sure) doesn't clean up after himself when target shooting. And with the blaze orange requirements, etc., it's safer for all involved as well.

Gordon
October 5, 2005, 09:12 PM
Get a hunting license. Get a pig tag (open season all year!). I missed that durn pig 380 times with my AK in NF 2 weeks ago! :p :D :evil:

Car Knocker
October 5, 2005, 09:56 PM
I wholeheartedly agree that a national forest, national park, state forest, or state park are NOT the places to be *target* shooting, since they are designed to be pristine preserves of nature for public enjoyment (you and me),

Not true. National Forests are multi-use lands intended to support logging, mining, grazing, hunting, off-road vehicle use, fishing, target shooting, horseback riding, firewood gathering, Christmas tree harvesting, hiking and backpacking, camping, etc.

No_Brakes23
October 6, 2005, 12:34 AM
like the guy who started one of the big PRK fires last year after he got lost deer hunting and started a fire as a signa Nit picking here, but that was 2 years ago. I remember it distinctly, because I had been home from a military deployment less than 2 months we were told to evacuate from military housing. (Murphy Canyon.) Still a good point. And it seems like we get a fire every year.

Hook686
October 6, 2005, 02:52 AM
So buy a hunting license ... so you're a bad shot and hit those funny tin cans, pieces of paper, or what ever ... but the rabbit, coyote ... you were aiming at, just ran past there. .... :evil:

Hoo686

c_yeager
October 6, 2005, 04:35 AM
Contrary to the text of this sign it is not, and never was congested. EXCEPT by the idiots on the quads that have destroyed this area.

ahhhh it makes sense now.

You see there are a lot of people that like to use National Forests for their various hobbies. In typical human fashion these people *cannot* figure out any means of sharing an area. its typical that offroaders and shooters compete over the same regions; sometimes they win, sometimes we win.

It doesnt help that often enough we shooters tend to mess up an area a lot more than the ATV guys do (not that they dont do a pretty impressive job, but ive never seen a bunch of offroaders dragging a washing machine out to the woods and leaving it there). Sadly enough we are often our own worse enemy when it comes to public shooting areas. Right now in Washington we are rapidly running out of available public shooting areas, i wish i could say that it was the result of some kind of anti-gun politics, but the fact is that its because of jerkwad shooters *completely* trashing the areas.

thorn726
October 6, 2005, 04:48 AM
c_yeager +1

Greysand
October 6, 2005, 12:49 PM
It's pretty nomal for the rangers to shut down Los Padres for target shooting when it gets dry. And as a general rule, the rangers are a terrible source for most any information concerning firearms.

I've had to deal with a number of them that were just a bit more than anti-gun. And it's really no wonder. On most trips up there I haul out at least a garbage bag full of misc. shooting related junk, trash, and brass. I can understand why rangers hate us. Nothing they can do about ATV's, but we make them pick up our trash.

Chances are, the ranger you spoke with is just fed up. And likely is not a target shooter. I've known a few of them that think - just because they talked with their supervisor about having shooting banned - it's going to happen.

And like the rest of the Anti-crowd they have no problems lieing to get their way. Just take it with a grain of salt. Call the ranger station and ask to speak with one of the higher-up's. They tend to be a little less alarmist than your standerd feet-beater.

Oldtimer
October 6, 2005, 01:08 PM
"They" are trying to force the anti-gun agenda, and will enforce it through bogus means. Sure, target shooters HAVE previously caused fires, but mostly because of carelessly building fires that got out-of-hand. Careless cigarette throwers have cause MORE fires, but GUNS are "evil"!

I've been a long-time desert shooter, and most often use BLM land. Recently, most of the BLM land that was open for target shooting was closed for such recreational purposes, due to their reported find of "numerous", protected desert tortoises having been found with bullet holes. I did some "homework" through several of the contacts that I have within the BLM rangers, and learned that "numerous" meant ONE! ONE desert tortoise was killed! Even that is questionable, for the desert tortoise was also SQUASHED....probably by an off-road vehicle! Instead of reporting the TRUTH, the BLM closed a HUGE amount of California desert land to recreational shooting!

Add to that, the "wide-open spaces" of the vast Mojave Desert in California is not "authorized" as a shooting range for the "evil" California "assault weapons", and since the BLM rangers (Federal) are now required to enforce STATE laws, the "wide-open spaces" are no longer "wide-open"! It makes me want to go out and find as many desert tortoises that I can....and "protect" them by taking them home with me! Of course, that would be yet another violation!

No_Brakes23
October 6, 2005, 01:58 PM
but ive never seen a bunch of offroaders dragging a washing machine out to the woods and leaving it there). The first time i ever saw this was in Yuma, AZ. And it was the Rez Indians who were dumping old appliances, not shooters. We were just ventilating said appliances.

It did bother me to see shells all over. I picked mine up just to stay in the habit for dove season.

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