Taurus Millenium 9mm's any good?


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yongxingfreesty
October 3, 2005, 07:05 PM
Taurus Millenium 9mm's any good?

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Anybody ever shoot a millenium 9mm ? I ve heard that the slide cracks and i've heard some good stuff as well. Please give me your advice on this gun. Thanks bye

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Yardstick
October 3, 2005, 07:13 PM
I read a lot about them before I bought a Millenium Pro 9mm last week. The search will turn up a lot of results. The frame cracking problem happened with the earlier non-Pro models, but seems to be fixed on the new Pro models. I put about 200 rounds through mine this weekend with only one minor hiccup. I caught a spent shell casing between the slide and barrel hood. Other than that there were no failures of any kind. The trigger was the hardest thing to get used to, but once I had that down I was making 3" groups off-hand at 10 yards. I'm happy with that for such a small gun.

TC-TX
October 4, 2005, 02:28 AM
I was looking at them and got an education in how they are a major pain to field strip for cleaning :eek: ... Not my idea for a user friendly auto...

TimboKhan
October 4, 2005, 02:34 AM
I have a 24/7 in 9mm, which from a price standpoint is about the same as a mil-pro, and they ARE a pain in the A to take down, but I have been very, very please with my 24/7 so far. I don't know if take down is necessarily my benchmark for how much I like a pistol or not, and overall I am a big Taurus fan in general, but they are a pain to take down.

SONICMASD
October 4, 2005, 03:07 AM
I dont know how anyone can complain about field stripping a millenium or 24/7!!!!!!!!???

SLIDE BACK
PIN OUT
SLIDE OFF
SPRING OUT
BARREL OUT

WOW THAT WAS HARD!

I can do it in 24 seconds blindfolded! and reassemble in 45 seconds. So i think you all just need a little practice. The Taurus line is amazing and i highly recommend them to anyone.

hkmp5g17
October 4, 2005, 03:31 AM
:D Not bad amigo but I can dissassemle a Glock in under 5 seconds(if I try) and my Sigs Hipowers and several others in a few more.

I can also hit coke cans blindfolded though only with the barrel touching the can....... :banghead:

Focus young Jedi! :what:


The field stripping part was meant seriously. :)

Logistar
October 4, 2005, 04:03 AM
I have heard that they are hard to field strip. However, I own one and find it very easy to field strip. There is one small trick (on mine anyway). When I reassemble it I push down on the barrel when I pull the slide back to put the pin in.

My Millenium is VERY accurate for it's size and conceals easily. I have been trying for years now to replace it with something better. Problem is... I haven't found anything I like better and I HAVE tried.

Why did I want to replace it in the first place? I read about problems other had with pins shearing. Mine has been fine though. It has been my main carry gun for years. If anyone can recommend another 9mm (or .45) that conceals as well, fits my hand as well, and shoots as well... I'll buy it!

YMMV

TC-TX
October 4, 2005, 01:24 PM
Thanks for the headsup SONICMASD - I will recheck my information source and SEE for myself...

To Logistar - I a Very Fond of my Kel-Tec P11 -

I am not suggesting it is better than the Millenium (as I do not know) but I can attest that it is a Great CC Weapon that conceals very well, Fits my hand well, Never a FTF or malfunction and shoots an Accurate grouping for the distances it is designed for. And - of course - you can not beat the price.

Kurush
October 4, 2005, 01:37 PM
You guys are spoiled. If 24 seconds is a major pain to field strip, I'd hate to hear how you'd describe CZ52 barrel removal.

MrTuffPaws
October 4, 2005, 02:16 PM
I was looking at them and got an education in how they are a major pain to field strip for cleaning ... Not my idea for a user friendly auto...

What is it with field stripping being a measure of a gun's worth? If you are too lazy to pop out a pin, then you have just lost out on some incredible guns.


As for the OP, I would only go for the millennium PRO models. The old millenniums seemed to have a lousy track record. The new ones are supposedly top notch. In fact, I am in the market for a PT145SSP myself. That gun is just perfect for my hand and my pocket.

Do a Google search for "Taurus Forum" and check out their reviews.

TC-TX
October 4, 2005, 03:03 PM
What is it with field stripping being a measure of a gun's worth?
MrTuffPaws - to me - IMHO - it is not about measuring a gun's worth or about being lazy.. It is more about being fully aware of a weapon's design - to include advantages and shortcomings - prior to acquisiton and/or purchase.

I try to look at certain design characteristics from a worse case scenario. Some things are not so inportant - other things definately are. In the trenches - on a battlefield or otherwise - it is, IMHO, a big disadvantage to carry a weapon that is difficult to strip and/or clean (or one that requires special or external tools) in the heat of a mess.

This is clearly not the Only Criteria for Selection, but it Is one of some inportance to me... IMHO... :)

TimboKhan
October 4, 2005, 03:05 PM
Sure I can take it down fast, but how fast can you get it back together? I can do my P90, blindfolded, in 30 seconds total both ways (and in fact practiced doing so blindfolded, for reasons that aren't clear even to me), and I can do my Taurus PT99 in about 15 seconds, both ways. Don't get me wrong, I flat out love Taurus pistols, and I recommend them to everyone, defend them frequently on THR, and think they generally are as good or better than any pistols out there, but "easy to take down" is not an argument thats gonna hold water with me. Now, that said, no criminal was ever kilt, no target was ever punched and no awards were ever won based on how a pistol takes down..........

Riktoven
October 4, 2005, 03:11 PM
nice size, gritty trigger, and waaay too many controls hanging off the side for this shooter's taste.

bigmike45
October 4, 2005, 06:00 PM
I have heard good things about them, but I can't vouch for the 9mm. :cool: However if they are only half as good as my PT-145 Millinneum Pro......you will really like the pistol. :D
I have the newest version with the light rail. I believe it is known as the third generation.

MillCreek
October 4, 2005, 06:20 PM
I have a 9 mm stainless Millennium Pro with about 450 rounds through it by now. No misfeeds, no FTF, no FTE. Completely reliable so far. I like it and carry it often. And compared to my Ruger Mark II, it is easy to field strip, in my view.

SouthpawShootr
October 4, 2005, 06:50 PM
Do yourself a favor and get the Millenium Pro. The original Millenium series had a number of problems throughout the line, from shearing pins to cracking frames, to shearing off safeties. The current 9mm Pros are a little bit bigger than the original 9mms but you're getting a more durable gun. Most reports I've seen on the new Millenium Pros are favorable. Lots of people still complain about the trigger, so make sure you are ok with that.

AirPower
October 4, 2005, 06:51 PM
I'm about to get my Millennium Pro 9mm this week so we'll see how it works.

As for speed/ease of takedown/assembly, it should not be a measure of a guns worth or quality. No one fieldstrips the gun everyday and the extra minute to take down the gun is nothing compared to the time you'll be cleaning the gun so it's a moot point. Further more, there's always trade off, and while you may get a great take down pistol, you may have to put up with mechnical accuracy of the gun, or its durablity, or functionality, or all of them. I know Glock is a great gun and easy to take down but it's fame is not from fast take down, rather is its value and reliability.

1911 is one of the more "difficult" gun to take down and people tend to get idiot scratches from the operation. Yet it's still an excellent handgun.

duncan
October 4, 2005, 06:52 PM
Good is relative.

With guns, the more you spend, the more you get.

For that money, you could buy a Kahr K9. Better quality and a nice but long trigger.

But around the gunshops people are not returning them.

Good enough to keep.

Taurus makes some fine SW clone revolvers though.

MDG1976
October 4, 2005, 07:04 PM
My dad is selling his. It's been 100% reliable, but darn near impossible to shoot straight. It's one of the most inaccurate gun's I've ever shot.

cidirkona
October 4, 2005, 07:15 PM
A friend got one with a bad magazine - the follower wouldnt' connect with the slide stop, just looked chewed up real well after a few mags of ammo.

He took it back to the shop and they gave him new magazines - not a problem since.

-Colin

SouthpawShootr
October 4, 2005, 08:13 PM
For that money, you could buy a Kahr K9. Better quality and a nice but long trigger.

Kahr run around $500 & up, new. Anybody thinking of paying more than $400 (out the door) for a brand new Millenium Pro should rethink. Around here, the Millenium Pros run $325 for blued and $350 for stainless, new.

BTW, I heartily recommend the K9. Lower capacity but you get a great gun. Flat, accurate, and reliable. I don't care much for their polymer framed guns, though.

Logistar
October 4, 2005, 08:42 PM
TC-TX,

I have never held a P-11. Maybe I should try one.

FWIW - Using my older PT-111...

Take down about 5 seconds. Putting it back together... about 15 seconds. (Takes a little longer to put the springs back on the guide rod going in.)

I can't field strip ANY of my other guns any faster. (Beretta 92, Keltec P-32, etc)

duncan
October 4, 2005, 08:56 PM
There are a lot of better subcompact 9mms out there.

glock 26
SA XD
Kahr K9
Sig P-225
HK USP
Even the Daewoo DP51C

Spend your money wisely.

Better to save for a keeper than dump a dawg!

procomps
October 4, 2005, 10:05 PM
I have an original model PT-111 Titanium 9mm that I really like for carry. 16oz. empty, fits my hand perfectly, never a problem through 600+ rounds. It was tricky to field strip and reassemble the first time, but simple enough afterwards. I bought mine used, so there may have been any number of rounds fired before I got it. No evidence whatsoever of any frame cracking, pin shearing, or any other problem. Mine shot low and left when I first got it, but now I can shoot 3" groups at 7 yards at about 10 shots in 7-8 seconds. I want to get a Millineum Pro for 12 rounds and 24/7 mag compatibility, then pass on my current gun to my son.

I also have a 24/7 in 9mm for home defense. It has about 1" greater length and 1/2-3/4" longer grip than the Mill Pro 111, otherwise they are mechanically very similar guns. 24/7 17-round mags will also work in the Mill Pro with some mag sticking out, but the Mill Pro is still quite shootable. So, if you carry the Mill Pro 12+1 and a 17 spare mag, that's 30 rounds!

I have not shot many other types of guns, but I have compared my Tauruses to everything in my local gun shop, and my opinion is that the Taurus brand is very high quality. I would rather have two $400 Tauruses than one $1000 gun of "supposedly" better quality anytime.

SONICMASD
October 4, 2005, 10:18 PM
1. How can one complain about the number of controls "sticking out there"???
oh you mean take down, slide release, and safety?? oh man thats way to many for my simple mind to handle?

2. Listen to MrTuffPaws he knows his stuff, dont get the normal series as they had some problems stick with the PRO series and you wont be dissapointed.

3. Better subcompacts? i dont think so. but thats just me.

SA XD- no manual safety (retarded grip safety and glock trigger safety) so that automatically takes it out for me- also more expensive

HK USP- I dont like HK mag releases and they are way overpriced (1500 rounds through my 24/7 not one failure of any kind and great accuracy) plus no lifetime warranty

Glock 26- ahah your kidding right? i see glock as the simplest, ugliest, auto ever made. just plain lacking in every way.

cant speak for the kahr and daewo but i do know that nothing beats taurus' warranty and I KNOW first hand how great taurus products are. You will not be dissapointed.

THE TRIGGER- its looong, but not heavy, not gritty, no take up at the end. IT IS LONG but its consistent and it lightens up around 500+ rounds. If you're going to carry a gun there are huge advantages to having a DAO pistol and its not like a revolver DA or most auto DA pulls. Its NOT heavy, just long. You can still double tap just as fast, you can still be just as accurate but if you're used to SA then it will take some getting used to.

duncan
October 5, 2005, 01:33 AM
And how many LE agencies or armies carry ANY Taurus gun?

How many agencies even have approved of any Taurus gun for even off-duty carry by their officer?

0

Plezzzzz :barf:

SONICMASD
October 5, 2005, 03:53 AM
and we all know that if the LE community doesnt use it, then its not the best :rolleyes:

I was stopped by the cop the other day and we got to talking about our pistols. He was issued a glock 40 and said "its alright i like it more than our old berettas", then after inspecting my 24/7 said "wow, that taurus is real nice, id like to get one of those."

true story

LightningJoe
October 5, 2005, 11:12 AM
My PT-745 is utterly reliable and good for very quick two-handed shots at 15 yards. OK for slow fire at 25 yards. I'd rather have TDA than DAO, but I can live with it.

In 9mm, however, you've got other choices that are smaller than the Millennium Pro but with similar barrel lengths. The P11 is good, but that square butt always rapped me on the knuckle of my thumb; +P loads were painful. The Kahr polymer micro is smaller. The Rohrbaugh is close to the P-3AT in size.

hkmp5g17
October 5, 2005, 12:37 PM
:) LOTS of LE guys (local, state, and federal) carry small frame Taurus revolvers as back ups or off duty guns.

Thin Black Line
October 5, 2005, 01:15 PM
PT111 good little ccw pistol. Liked the built in lock. It's not made for
+P or loads heavier than 115g --says so in the manual in case anyone
still looks at manuals. It's cheaper than a lot of the other compacts
mentioned.

SouthpawShootr
October 5, 2005, 01:15 PM
I suspect that there are a few reasons you don't see Taurus handguns in LE holsters.

There a little thing called solicitation for bids. LE agencies put these out only to manufacturers they want to see examples from. Don't get invited, they don't come to the party. They don't really seem to be actively pursuing the LE market anyway.

Gear availability is another thing. Who's going to adopt a gun for which duty gear is not available?

The Taurus PT-92 series were an outgrowth of a Beretta military contract. I wonder if they still have military/LE contracts in Brazil. Anybody from Brazil lurking on these boards?

Also, many of the decisionmakers in agencies (IF they know anything about guns) have pretty much heard rumors that Taurus guns are cheap knockoffs of S&W and Beretta. They might be inexpensive, but I've had a couple of Taurus guns that stood up well to substantial amounts of shooting.

Old Dog
October 5, 2005, 02:50 PM
And how many LE agencies or armies carry ANY Taurus gun? Funny how the Taurus-bashers (all Taurus products must suck) always rise to the occasion when a question is asked about a specific Taurus product ... I know a number of law enforcement personnel who carry Model 85s as BUGs and even a city cop who carries a 945 on uniformed patrol.

The Millenium Pro pistols are excellent little pieces. The company has the bugs worked out and, IMO, the Mil-Pros are sensible pistols even though there are "too many controls hanging off the sides." That's why some people buy 'em ... a frame-mounted safety on any pistol is a good thing. My wife's PT-145 is extremely accurate, totally reliable. A friends PT-111 is a fun little shooter and quite accurate as well. Yeah, the trigger pull takes some getting used to ... so what?

duncan
October 5, 2005, 03:17 PM
LOTS of LE guys (local, state, and federal) carry small frame Taurus revolvers as back ups or off duty guns.

Again, Taurus' revolvers are awesome. But they are still not SW revolvers and won't hold much value if you ever start horse trading. Ask any gunsmith which revolver they like to work on. You can tune and polish a SW trigger like there is no tomorrow.

Ruger also makes some fine durable revolvers - love my Redhawk but it's trigger is not close to my SW's even with a trigger job. In general, revolvers are great BUGs and affordable SA alternatives. That's why some cops carry them. Again Taurus makes great revolvers!

Love this in 44 mag:

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Revolvers/Taurus_Raging_Bull.gif

I've worked for a couple of defense and LE contractors. Work for a LE and Homeland Security contractor right now doing business with LEAs from the FBI to the county sheriff's department. We bid on government contracts weekly. And if the gun meets the specs, they can bid on the RFP.

Taurus has chosen not to go after that business for a reason. I think it's a mistake. Look at the success of the IROC Z after it's success in NASCAR. If you build it, and the big boys use it, the civies will come!

Many manufacturers like Glock and Beretta take a loss on those large government contracts and make up the money in increase sales to officers on backup pieces. Afterwards, civilians buy up those same gun models. Some because they are copy wanna be's, some becuase they feel it's been tested in the field.

For example, your dept issues a Glock 22. You have to buy a G27 as a BUG to use the same magazines in a SHTF situation. So you can take those G22 mags and shove them into your G23 or G27 and keep dealing with that situation.

Glock and other gun makers going after the LE or military business make plenty of money off of civilians who want to carry the same sidearms for self or home defense.

If you are ever invloved in a self defense shooting, you best defense is that I carry the same kind of gun my local/state/federal LEOs do.

That is another benefit.

Taurus makes some good guns, but they have chosen NOT to pursue the LE market which causes me to suspect their real belief in their guns. If they don't think they can hold up or that they won't sell enough of them, why should I?

Look at Springfield Armory and their XDs. They are going after that Glock business. Kimber is also going after the SWAT team and special ops business with their 1911s.

So that's why I have faith in guns carried by our boys in blue. I trust that they will beat the hell out of those guns, abuse them, and if they serve them, they'll serve me.

When it comes to my live and my family's lives, I'll spend the extra money to get that gun.

You are free to drive that Neon or Cobalt all you want. :cool:

I like the Bavarian imports :neener:

SONICMASD
October 6, 2005, 01:13 AM
I cant answer as to why Taurus isnt marketing to LE agencies, but they are going after Glock's market.

Have you seen their ad for the 24/7??? It's a direct comparison to Glock and how the 24/7 has more features in every way and then says "you call that perfection?"

I think the 24/7/mil pro would make much better sidearms for LE because of those extra features.

Riktoven
October 6, 2005, 11:43 AM
Manual safeties...the crutch for those who still believe in safe neighborhoods.

Any gun with a manual safety makes me ill aside from 1911s (and I still don't think they need them).

Any gun with a takedown lever that is not protected by some kind of shroud or frame indent is just sloppily designed IMO.

Any gun without an ambidexterous mag release was designed by someone whos never been shot.

Any gun (ie most guns) that use button mag releases instead of a lever was designed by someone who's not seen way too many accidental mag drops by people with extended mag releases to like the button at all.

Any gun with lever actuated controls of any kind on the (repeatedly and rapidly moving) slide is sloppily designed IMO.

The Taurus works. But it's a sloppy design IMO. And yes, I am still going complain about all the huge BS controls dangling off of this and many other guns.

Berretta and S&W with thier slide mounted horse pucky and internal doo-dads are good guns for sure, but I don't like the designs one bit.

Slinger
October 6, 2005, 05:27 PM
I have a Millennium Pro 145ss. I don't find it anymore difficult to field strip than my faithfull old Colt 1911. Of course I don't wear a blindfold while doing it, nor do I have a stopwatch timing me. It shoots great for such a short barreled gun. It is a nice pointing gun for me, I can put it up on target effortlessly. It fits nicely in my Bagmaster IWB holster right next to my belt buckle without worry of accidentally shooting my manhood off because of the DAO trigger.

Only one problem. I have been having one hell of a time with failure to feed. The first 100 rnds I had 1 problem. ( Wolf 230 gr. ammo ) The next 100 rnds (WWB 230JHP) I had more than I care to mention. The last 100 rnds (CCI brass Blazer 230 gr. ) had maybe two. Took my mag apart at home and found it to be filthy dirty inside. Perhaps the cheep ammo had something to do with it. Still working on the problem. :(

I know it's not the 9mm version but something to keep in mind.

duncan
October 6, 2005, 05:41 PM
Slinger,
do a fluff and buff on that feed ramp and throat.

http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/images/Feb15/polishedthroat.jpg

It's an old 1911 gunsmith's trick.

Lightly westsand with BreakFree oil and a high grit sandpaper like 1500 - should be gray and you can not see any sand/grains - do not change the contours just knocking down any milling marks.

Get some fltiz metal polis and a felt tip for your dremel and mirror polish.

Has eliminated almost all feed problems in a variety of guns.

Standard procedure for any one of my new guns except for my HKP7s.

Stevie-Ray
October 6, 2005, 11:32 PM
I had a PT-111 a couple years ago. It is one of only 2 guns I ever sold. My problem was the mag release. Between the fit of the gun and the size of my hand I was always inadvertantly hitting the mag release. It was pissing me right off. Bought a G26, and was extremely happy with it. It was everything the Millenium was, but far better IMO. Finally after a period of non-use the Millenium was traded for a Kimber UCDP. (and cash, of course) I just couldn't see keeping it, as disappointing as it was to me.

TimboKhan
October 8, 2005, 06:58 PM
One of the big chain sporting goods stores here in Colorado, Sportsmens Warehouse, is having a sale (it might be over now, though) in which MilPro 9mm's (specifically) are $299.00. Regular price is $329.00. Kahrs, which I have considered purchasing, are absolutly NEVER cheaper new than about $450.00, and usually a tick or two over $500.00.

Hawken50
October 8, 2005, 09:38 PM
did you notice the people bashing them are not talking about jams, ftf, fte, stove pipes, lack of reliability, etc? they don't seem to like the design, fit, features. if you like the guns features, fit, the gun overall, and it's in your price range, you won't be dissapointed.

i've got about 1000 rounds through a new stainless pt111 (non-pro) and i couldn't be happier with it. if the frame becomes a problem, they'll fix it for free.

baldy5706
October 9, 2005, 01:28 AM
I'm having a similar problem I was all set to buy a Millenium PT 145. Sportsman's Warehouse, Milwaukee, $279.00. Searching the Internet I found all the frame crack horror stories. Talking to local shops only told me that Taurus was great about taking care of problems. Now I'm looking at Glock 36's. $549 at the same place. Quite a bit more, but if it's worth the difference I'd spend it. The question is like the one that started the thread. Which is the better choice? Sorry if this is off the subject but it seems to fit.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
October 9, 2005, 02:01 AM
I've had a pair of pre-Pro Millennium PT111's in the house for about 6 years now. One os mine, the other is exclusively SWMBO's. I polished up the striker and striker channel a little and it smoothed up a lot, almost to the point of where a NIB PRO model is. Yeah, I like mine, but it's not my daily carry piece...mostly for really hot weather when I'm dressed a little more casually than usual. SWMBO carries hers occasionally, shoots it more than I do mine at the range, and can detail strip the thing in no time at all, down to the striker for cleaning, lube, and inspection.

Both of them function reliably every time you pull that loooong trigger. No, it's not a target pistol. It's easy enough to stay on a silhouette target at 20 yards, though. If I'd had wanted a P210, I'd have bought a pair of them. The PT111 is goblin repellant at an affordable price, which is why I bought them.

Works for us.


Regards,
Rabbit.

duncan
October 9, 2005, 02:35 AM
baldy5706, please shoot the Glock 36 before you buy it.

Of all of the Glocks, it has more recoil, snap, and bite to it due to its thin backstrap.

The Glock 30 is a tad thicker but better to shoot several boxes through.

The Glock 36 is merely for CCW not fun at the range.

My hand hurt after two boxes and I shoot 357 sig, 10mm, and 44 mag.

Hawken50
October 9, 2005, 02:45 PM
how did you polish the striker and striker channel? is it something i can do my self? my trigger is a tad gritty.

baldy5706
October 10, 2005, 12:48 AM
Ducan, Thanks. I'll have to try the 36. Have you fired the Taurus PT 145? Just wondering if it was similar. Better? Worse? Thanks!

Leonardo
October 10, 2005, 02:38 AM
The Taurus PT-92 series were an outgrowth of a Beretta military contract. I wonder if they still have military/LE contracts in Brazil. Anybody from Brazil lurking on these boards?I am, but don't know much about it.
In Brazil each state has its own military and civilian police organization. A lot of them use Taurus pistols, and some of them also use Taurus machine guns (both .40 caliber), according to the Taurus (http://www.taurus.com.br/policias.php) website.
I believe military forces use guns made by Imbel (http://www.imbel.gov.br).

MrTuffPaws
October 10, 2005, 03:03 AM
Any gun with lever actuated controls of any kind on the (repeatedly and rapidly moving) slide is sloppily designed IMO.

The Taurus works. But it's a sloppy design IMO. And yes, I am still going complain about all the huge BS controls dangling off of this and many other guns.

And you obviously have never held a Millennium Pro or a 27/7 because if you had, you would have noticed that all of the controls are on the frame.:cuss:

duncan
October 10, 2005, 02:06 PM
baldy5706, no I have not fired the PT-145. Just did not like the strong-side controls when I handled it in the shop.

duncan
October 10, 2005, 02:19 PM
The should have internal strikers. If Taurus uses Glock's striker and channel design this should work just fine for you:

Just disassemble, getyour dremel with a felt tip and some Flitz and polish your striker to a mirror finish but not too much as most strikers are plated and if you get thru the plating, it's ruined.

You can take a piece of 1000 grit sandpaper and some breakFree. Wrap around a long wooden Q-tip and gently turn going in and out of the striker channel. Do this several times wiping out with a Q-tip until it's pretty smooth.

You don't want to enlarge, just smooth - otherwise your striker "could" rattle and fail to seat and misfire and non-primer strikers all day would be the drill. Once you've smoothed it some, dip another long Q-tip with Flitz and work it baby!

Clean out and lightly BreakFree coating the channel. Done!

Riktoven
October 11, 2005, 02:01 PM
And you obviously have never held a Millennium Pro or a 27/7 because if you had, you would have noticed that all of the controls are on the frame.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops, you got me there. Typically when I think Taurus, I think Berreta with the safety backwards (or proper, since Berreta is backwards).

But look at the gun for a minute. Look at the positioning of the controls. I mean there are three control levers side, by side, by side, with nothing besides a couple of millimeters separating them. Good luck getting the safety off instead of accidentally pressing the slide release.

*** would anyone want a safety for anyway? If the gun is in a holster, the trigger isn't going anywhere. If the gun is in your hand, YOU better be all the safety it needs. I just can't imagine a scenario where you'd ever say "damn, it's a good thing I had the safety on." I can imagine a couple where that safety, or reliance on it could ruin ones day real quick.

I've fired one of the older Milleniums, sucky trigger but worked ok at 7 yards.
Some people like them, that's why they are still being sold, choices are great right? The bottom line is, I think its a sloppy design. The controls are un-necessary and ridiculously placed from a high speed low drag perspective. I'm not telling you how to spend your money, but if it's sloppy designs that float your boat, at least buy American.

Old Dog
October 11, 2005, 05:38 PM
Some people like them, that's why they are still being sold, choices are great right? The bottom line is, I think its a sloppy design. The controls are un-necessary and ridiculously placed from a high speed low drag perspective. I'm not telling you how to spend your money, but if it's sloppy designs that float your boat, at least buy American These pistols are not marketed to go to "high speed, low-drag" operators. They are designed for close-in self-defense for the average citizens. As such, a frame-mounted manual safety makes perfect sense. As far as the other controls, they're not sloppily designed, but rather pretty darned good ergonomically. "Ridiculously placed?" Seems to me they're pretty close to JMB's original placement on the 1911 and the Hi-Power.

Finally, what's up with this "buy American" stuff? Why? And who really cares, since many of the world's finest firearms are in fact manufactured in other places (and don't even have plants and business offices in Florida, as Taurus does)?

hksw
October 11, 2005, 08:30 PM
Manual safeties...the crutch for those who still believe in safe neighborhoods.

Any gun with a manual safety makes me ill aside from 1911s (and I still don't think they need them).

Any gun with a takedown lever that is not protected by some kind of shroud or frame indent is just sloppily designed IMO.

Any gun without an ambidexterous mag release was designed by someone whos never been shot.

Any gun (ie most guns) that use button mag releases instead of a lever was designed by someone who's not seen way too many accidental mag drops by people with extended mag releases to like the button at all.

Any gun with lever actuated controls of any kind on the (repeatedly and rapidly moving) slide is sloppily designed IMO.

The Taurus works. But it's a sloppy design IMO. And yes, I am still going complain about all the huge BS controls dangling off of this and many other guns.

Berretta and S&W with thier slide mounted horse pucky and internal doo-dads are good guns for sure, but I don't like the designs one bit.

This is one of the funniest post I've ever read on a gun forum.

duncan
October 11, 2005, 09:19 PM
Amen!

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
October 12, 2005, 12:58 AM
Hawken, duncan pretty much nailed the procedure for you before I checked the thread again. I used a well-worn piece of emery cloth taped to a slender round dowel which I chucked into a variable speed drill and made a few light passes through the striker channel. Then I used valve lapping compound and smoothed the striker with a soft cloth for about an hour or so.

Once done, I cleaned everything (metal) involved with brake cleaner very thoroughly, dried it and reassembled.

As I said, now it's as smooth as a new in the box PRO model. If I were to buy a Millenium again, it'd be the PRO model, just because they're so much smoother from the start. All of them do get better with use and dry-firing...but the first models have a trigger pull out of the box somewhat akin to trying to drag an upright piano down a rock trail with your fingertips.

Regards,
Rabbit.

TimboKhan
October 12, 2005, 02:40 PM
And how many LE agencies or armies carry ANY Taurus gun?
In Colorado, I know 2 cops personally who carry 24/7's, and I know the Greeley Police Department allows officers to carry Taurus pistols. Or, at least they did, and I know thats a fact because my ex-brother in law was/is a Greeley cop and up until the time my EX-brother in law, I know he carried a Taurus 92.

duncan
October 12, 2005, 05:44 PM
I also have heard of small town cops carrying these in their cruisers:

http://home.woh.rr.com/eprson/high9mm_1.jpg

Small towns just don't have the funds to buy the Glocks, Sigs, or HKs.

I'm interested in the issue sidearms, not the "if you can qualify with it" list.

Dionysusigma
October 12, 2005, 11:41 PM
Any gun made by Taurus is junk. Send it to me, and you'll never have to deal with them again.













:D Taurus, like Hi-Point, gets a lot of bad press from those who have never used them. Most of this comes from those who have only heard of Smith and Wesson, Beretta, and Glock. Taurus pistols are reliable, affordable and look cool. If anything, they make a good copy; but in my opinion, they are on-par with all the other "Tactical" names out there (and Smith and Wesson, too :p ).

Yardstick
October 13, 2005, 03:49 PM
I wanted to throw something in that I realized last night as I was fondling my PT-111 and thinking about this thread. I have pretty large hands. My mountain bike/dirbike gloves are XXL and I fill them out pretty well. The safety lever on the PT-111 sits just under the joint in my thumb and the slide release sits right under the pad of my thumb. The takedown lever (that has to be rotated and then can only be pulled out with the slide all the way to the rear) is out of reach by my thumb. Somehow I don't think 'all those controls hanging off the side' are really going to be a problem or interfere with the function of the gun. There's not much that could get confusing, just push everything you can reach with your thumb DOWN and try not to jerk the trigger when firing. Seems easy enough for me! :D

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