[ChristopherG]

The wife and I enjoy frequent walks on local railroad tracks. These tracks are mostly in current (though not heavy) use, and pass through both rural and suburban areas. The state I live in (NC) does not have a specific law regarding 'railroad right-of-way trespass', or a particular penalty for this act--which, I suppose technically, is trespassing, although the railroad's rights-of-way are not posted, and there is no effort at enforcement that I know of.

I have a CHP and carry concealed (usually a 4" 357 or 45 wheelgun) when we track-walk. My biggest concern is honestly dogs. We've encountered only one other pedestrian in many hours of walking (though that pedestrian was staggering drunk at 10 on a Sunday morning, and caused us to cut our walk short that morning in order to avoid any potential problem). Basically, I wouldn't take these walks unarmed.

Does anyone else walk railroad tracks? If so, do you carry? What do you imagine would be the repercussions if I had to shoot a dog--feral, or just loose--or, heaven forfend, an attacker, while on rural or suburban tracks? As always, it doesn't seem likely, and I do my best to remain aware of and avoid potential threat situations. Still, stuff happens. Is the risk of trouble latent in this whole situation too serious to indulge in our little act of hobo-esque freedom?

[thatguy]

On board the train puts you under the jurisdiction of interstate travel regulations. Basically the same as air travel, I think. But on the tracks seems like a public access situation. Yes, the property is owned by the railroad but there is (I believe) an expectation that you have the right to walk over, across, or along the tracks as long as you don't interfere with the train. If strict "no trespassing" were enforced how would cars and pedestrians cross the tracks at road and walkway crossings?

I doubt that you running afoul of any laws by being armed on your walks. As for using deadly force the general rule is that you must feel an immediate threat of death or injury. An attacking dog would qualify but being a dog lover it would be the absolute last resort for me. I would try a warning shot into the ground in front of an aggressive dog that didn't retreat with verbal warnings before killing it. I would do it if I had to, but I would feel awful about it.

[ChristopherG]

I prefer my animals alive, as well, and kill insects with regrets (though kill them I do); and I don't want to sidetrack the thread from the fundamental legal/risk management angle, but I've gotta ask: You think a dog would comprehend a warning shot?

[dk-corriveau]

When I was learning how to shoot as a young kid, my father and I would walk the railroads all the time. Our land was triangle shaped and was bordered by a small creek and a railroad. We would walk the railroad to the trestle that passed over the creek. We would then toss small logs upstream and shoot them as they moved past us (in the fall we would just use the leaves that were floating in the water). :D

Man those were great days. I currently live in a suburban golf community with less than an acre of land. I sure would love to get a piece of land like we had back then so I can do the same with my son once he gets old enough.

I know this isn’t what you were looking for, but your post stirred some really good old memories.

[TexasRifleman]

No offense intended, but when you say something like Basically, I wouldn't take these walks unarmed. maybe there needs to be some rethinking of personal safety.

A primary strategy in personal safety is to avoid places where you might not be safe as much as what gun to carry when you get there.

[ChristopherG]

dk--glad I could stir some memories, and I hope you get your plot of land--they're not making it any more.

SIGman, no offense taken. I do consider my personal safety when I'm choosing a place to walk; so I don't hike in National Parks, where I know for a certainty I'm not allowed to have a gun. It's the legality of the thing I'm really prying at here. If I never went anywhere where I thought I might need a gun, then there'd be no point to carrying; and I wouldn't get out much ;)

[Dr.Rob]

A friend of my Dad's showed me his father's "Railway Pistol" (he worked for the C&O) it was a Colt 1903 in .380. Though I'm pretty certain he was more concerned with crime occuring on/around his trains.

As far as the legality of carry... wow... I hunt on land leased to UP which is intermixed with Nat. Forest... LAWFUL hunting is allowed, but logging (including cutting x-mas) trees is not. "Railroad laws" will likely vary in your area, but I'd check with your CCW issuing authority if you are really concerned.

[TimboKhan]

ME: Angry dog, Heed my verbal warning to immediatly vacate the premises, or face being fired upon.

DOG: Bark. Bark.

ME: Bang.

Allright, that was just in jest, as I too love our furry pals, but I remember a case when I was a kid that my dad and I were walking along and we were charged by two very angry dogs, and my dad laid into them with a stick while I stood there and cried (hey, I was like 7) and they didn't leave. Dad eventually fought them off, but verbal warnings and stick-beatings failed. This is a case of COMMON SENSE!!!!!!!! If a pit bull charges you, don't warn it, kill it. If a toy poodly charges at you, after finishing laughing, just yell at it to beat it, chances are it will work. If you are a licensed CCW guy, your repercussions will probably land you in court, upon which you will probably be able to emerge victorious since, if nothing else, the owner of the dog was probably in violation of your cities leash laws. If your NOT a CCW guy, you can still probably claim self-defense, but you may incur charges for a variety of thigns, to include discharging a gun inside city limits, which is a misdeameanor. The key here is to realize that having to shoot an angry dog is just like having to shoot a human in that you have only an instant to make a decision.

[jondar]

I and my daughter who was thirteen at that time walked down the tracks to look at the river which was in flood stage. After about two hundred yards down the track two very large and dirty hobos (can I say that with PC?) dismounted from a boxcar on the siding, crossed over to our side of the tracks. I was carrying a Colts SAA in a holster in the small of my back and they couldn't see it. When they got about twenty yards from us I turned my back like I was looking at the river. They immediately crossed to the other side of the tracks. As they passed us one of them hollered over "Nice looking gun, what is it, a twenty-two?" I said "nope, it's a forty-four." No problems. I think, to get back to your question, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for walking on the tracks where I live as long as they aren't stealing. I think it's like concealed carry in some states, it's "don't ask, don't tell."

[DR]

I've gotta ask: You think a dog would comprehend a warning shot?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=117022 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=117022&highlight=warning%20shot)

These dogs comprehended the message loud and clear. It's a pity that their owner didn't.

[ChristopherG]

Interesting link re: dogs, DR.

I imagine a warning shot might be effective sometimes. On the other hand, I don't like those odds, undetermined as they are. I think, like TimboKhan, my view of the matter is that if I draw, it's to put a certain hurt on something. I get hand to gun as soon as an untended dog heads toward me with apparent confrontational intent. From there, I know how long it takes me to draw, get on target, and start sending lead, and can set up a mental perimeter based on how threatening the specific situation looks. The one time a dog has charged toward us, it was a Pit Bull of Manifest Bulk; and had he continued his charge within 8 or 10 yards of us, I would have drawn--but by that time, there's no question of a warning shot. Fast and repeated COM. Variables like owner presence, multiple dogs, or more poodly dogs, would of course change the picture.

[Standing Wolf]

I've gotta ask: You think a dog would comprehend a warning shot?

Lots of dogs intensely dislike gun shots, probably because they're more painful to their ears than ours.

No offense intended, but when you say something like
Quote:
Basically, I wouldn't take these walks unarmed.
maybe there needs to be some rethinking of personal safety

I see carrying a gun as proof positive that personal safety has, indeed, been given serious thought.

[Car Knocker]

Railroad POlice (Special Agents) are spread pretty thin and are mostly found in urban areas and trouble spots. Technically, if you are on railroad property in other than designated crossings, you are trespassing. Most Special Agents will not bother you along the tracks if you appear to be presentable and not a threat to trains and their contents. I am aware of no laws regarding railroads and firearms that single out railroad property from other private property.

Be aware if getting clear for an oncoming train that lots of heavy things (such as boxcar doors) fall off the cars. Riders have been known to throw stuff at people and cars from moving trains. Give the train LOTS of room! Another thing you should be aware of when walking the tracks is that they are contaminated with many toxic chemicals that leak from cars and you may track this stuff into your home.

[thatguy]

Yes, I think a dog might be turned by a warning shot. Some won't. I have read books by professional African hunters who wrote of turning more dangerous animals than dogs (like elephants and lions) with warning shots when they really didn't want to kill them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

I will shoot a dog before I let it bite me, but if I can avoid killing it I will. Simple.

[Braden]

You think a dog would comprehend a warning shot?

Absolutely. I was raised in the country. I have personally seen a pack of dogs (that were attacking my grandfather's dog) scatter like a bunch of rats when my grandfather fired his 20 gauge over their heads.

Back on topic, I've always been told that it was unlawful to walk on the tracks. That never stopped me when I was a kid, but I do think it's illegal (although I've never seen it enforced).

[BluesBear]

Just be aware that the Railroad Police are REAL Police. And they have real police powers. And on railroad property their jurisdiction supersceeds local and state authority.
Usually they are very easy to get along with. Just don't argue with them. They can ruin your day.

As a long time railfan I have dealt with them on many occasions. I have seen several other people that just don't know when to shut up and their mouth has gotten them in trouble.
Personally I've never had a problem with any of them although there is one particular officer that patrols around Osbourne Yard in Jefferson County KY that can be a bit of a p*r*i*c*k.

[ChristopherG]

I've been aware that there ARE such things as Railroad Police, because I've seen old S&W revolvers made 'specially for them. I wasn't sure if they were still commissioned, though, 'cause I've never seen one; but then, we don't hang at trainyards. I figure if I ever came across such an agent (or any LE person taking an interest in our presence), I'd be ignorant as a lamb and innocent as a dove. We're just out for the exercise and the nature, you know.

How do traincops get jurisdiction, anyway? Is it granted by each state, or is there some special federal overriding law that connected with the initial land grants (I suppose that would fall under the commerce clause, yes?)? Are there other industries that have such actual legal authority?

[Spot77]

I love walking on the local Maryland tracks here. And Maryland makes my ccw choice real easy for me. :cuss:


The CSX and Amtrak rails that run through the Patapsco Park area are beautiful, especially in the fall.


clear for an oncoming train that lots of heavy things (such as boxcar doors) fall off the cars.


I got hit with a lump of coal once. Thought it was an indication of what Christmas was going to be like.

[Car Knocker]

Christopher,

Special Agents complete the same POST requirements as local police, sheriff's deputies, etc., and are sworn Peace Officers. They interface with local police radio nets and often assist local police if in a position to do so, and vice versa.

Because of the rail transportation across state lines and the nature of some of the commodities, the feds have an interest in rail security and occasionally work undercover in conjunction with railroad police.

[WT]

In my state RR cops are real cops - training, arrest powers, firearms carry, etc. I frequently see RR cops on patrol.

Federal law also covers RR police.

RAILROAD POLICE POWERS:
Section 1704 of the Crime Control Act of 1990, effective March 14, 1994, provides that:
"A railroad police officer who is certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of any state shall, in accordance with the regulations issued by the Secretary of Transportation, be authorized to enforce the laws of any jurisdiction in which the rail carrier owns property."

RR cops have been around longer than most civilian police departments.

[BluesBear]

Yes RR Police are one of few federally empowered law enforcement agencies that can enforce state and local laws as well as traffic regulations.