giving up...


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HD
October 4, 2005, 10:24 PM
i have arrived at the point of a complete and utter loss of trust for the 1911 design...
this last spate of problems allowed me to see the shortcomings of the 1911 as currently manufactured by the various companies ...
it used to be i'd grab any replacement parts out of the storage box , check them for fit then reassemble and test fire ...
now i have screw with the calipers the files the stones and cut and try , sometimes for hours just to get an extractor to work or a magazine to feed properly...
no more of this nonsense for me , i've had enough BS for 2 lifetimes ...
johnny , i don't know how you do it anymore...
i finished the 2 SA's i have , and realised i can never trust my safety to a 1911 again ...
oh , yeah , they work now , and they shoot great , but the question will always be there IE: when will they **** up again ?
so they go in the safe , never to be trusted again ...
replaced by CZ's and SIG's (no glocks , i detest plastic guns )tokarevs and makarovs , maybe even a 2nd generation S&W or two...
i never thought i would see such crappy quality control as the small parts currently used by SA and other companies...
if you have the endurence to put up with all of this then you're far better off than i am ...
i quit colt when their qc went to hell , we won't talk about kimberparaaoothers , SA was the last good gun , but afaic thats gone as well...
it seems no one gives a damm how they do things anymore , they keep telling me "send it back , we'll fix it " how come it wasn't done right the 1st time ?
of my last 6 SA's , every one was defective in some way (the mico wouldn't even function) enough , no more ...
appreciate all your help johnny thanks... HD

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tc300mag1
October 4, 2005, 10:27 PM
i must be lucky out of the last 7 i have had only the smith wesson 1911sc was a turd rest function flawlessly

BHPshooter
October 4, 2005, 10:37 PM
That's too bad -- as someone who hasn't yet jumped into the 1911 pool, this is kind of an interesting post. It stands to reason that when Companies A-X are trying to produce a 1911 that will get the most bite out of the market and also give the biggest paycheck to the shareholder, things seem destined to go down the tubes.

I have always been glad that there aren't very many makers of the Hi Power, because having owned an FEG clone alongside an FN and a Browning, the differences between the clone and the genuine articles are pretty amazing.

The FEG was a good gun... but the Browning and FN are superb guns. I let the FEG clone go at the last gun show (Thanks, Larry!)... I will NOT let the other two go.

I guess the point to all of this ramble is that FN still "owns" the HP market by and large, and can still make the Hi Power without sacrificing quality in order to compete price-wise.

As a sidenote, since you've let the 1911 go, have you ever given a HP a try?

Wes

HD
October 4, 2005, 10:45 PM
i lost count of my BHP's 10 years ago , when my nib MkIII had a bore so over size you could push a 9mm slug down the barrel with a dowel , i quit buying browning ...
(explains the 12-15" groups at 50' i guess )
the ONLY guns that have given me NO grief whatsoever are my CZ's and SIG's...
my 245 was finally ordered today ...

1911Tuner
October 4, 2005, 10:46 PM
Nooooo henry! Don't do it! Bring that Springer when ya decide to get the helloutta ********** and I'll fix that puppy up for ya. Just gimme an hour with it...

I understand how ya feel, though. 90% of what I learned about tweakin' and spankin' delinquent 1911s came with Colt's Series 70 Dark Days...that, and the appearance of the Thompson Auto Ordnance and Safari Arms abortions.
And I don't even wanna talk about the Officer's Models and 1991A1 Compacts... :banghead: But I learned a lot, and that gives me an edge with the 1990s to present "Attack of the Clones." Mainly that sometimes ya just can't go by the book on'em. Ya gotta be willin' to step outside of the envelope once in a while. :cool:

Jammer Six
October 4, 2005, 11:25 PM
Hey, if he's selling his 1911s, I want in.

Marshall
October 4, 2005, 11:26 PM
I'm with you Fumegator, never had a bad Hi-Power. :)

3rdpig
October 5, 2005, 12:29 AM
I grew up shooting my Dad's 1911's. The first centerfire pistol I ever bought on my own was a BHP. When I first saw aluminum frame guns I swore I'd never own one. But it wasn't long before I owned a Sig P220 (sold as a Browning BDA 45). It was a fantastic gun, way more reliable than any gun I'd ever owned before it including the BHP, which didn't like JHP's. The Sig would chamber any round including the "flying ashtry", the Speer 200 grain lawman HP. I loved that gun and still do, it's in my safe now. I accepted the aluminum framed gun but then I swore that I'd never own a plastic gun. It took years before I bought my first Glock, a beat up police turn in Glock 22, but once I did I quickly became convinced. It's the most durable, reliable, trouble free gun I've ever owned, including the P220. Sure, it's ugly, the grip angle is slightly wrong, the trigger feels terrible and there's no hammer or safety. But it's the only gun made that I trust enough to bet money that I can take 10 new guns, right ouf of the box, and fire 100 rounds through each gun without a failure. It's just...like I said above, it's the most trustworthy and durable handgun I've ever found.

Sorry, I don't mean to intrude on your pain, but I've been there too. I still own a 1911 (the one my Dad carried in WWII), my P220 and my BHP, not to mention all my revolvers, a Nazi P38, etc, etc. But for defensive purposes nothing is paramount to the gun going bang when the trigger is pulled and repeating until the mag is empty. For that, a Glock is king. At least right now.

Again, I apoligize for intruding. Carry on.

HD
October 5, 2005, 12:35 AM
had 10 or 12 since '86 ? they're ok , they just don't do it for me ...

ghost squire
October 5, 2005, 02:42 AM
I would venture to say that from my limited experience and hearsay, that the SIG is as reliable as the Glock on average. But not to hijack.

HD
October 5, 2005, 09:36 AM
hear too many horror stories now from 2nd/3rd gen owners to trust one ...
seen 5 blown up on factory ammo incl a 9mm..
had two of the 40's blow up right next to me ...
the m21 was in 5 peices ...

MarineTech
October 5, 2005, 11:58 AM
I've owned six different 1911 models over the years to include:

- An original US Property 1944 WW2 production Colt 1911A1 that happened to find its way back with my grandfather from the Marines in his sea-bag.
- Colt Custom Shop Series 70 Repro
- Kimber Compact Series 1 Stainless
- Springfield Armory "Loaded" 5"
- Para Ordnance CCW LDA
- 1st Generation Springfield Armory Micro Compact
- RIA 5" Mil-spec

The only gun I had that was a dog was the Micro Compact. Just too short and finicky.

All the rest run flawlessly with 230gr. ball. All ran flawlessly with a variety of ammo except for the WW2 Colt. One thing that I have found with my various 1911s is that each gun has had a preference for certain types of magazines. But once I found which mags it "liked", everything ran perfectly.

To point out. That WW2 Colt of mine sounds like a silverware drawer when you shake it. It will only run with surplus GI mags and 230gr. FMJ ammo. It has well over 50,000 rounds through it with only an new barrel and recoil spring ever replaced.

BUT

I was carried by my grandfather as a Marine in WW2. It was carried by my father as a Marine in Vietnam. And thanks to an understanding Battalion Commander, it was carried by me as a Marine in Desert Storm. It never once failed any of us when we needed it.

Would I trust my life to a 1911. You're darn right I would, and I do.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
October 5, 2005, 12:37 PM
My truck prefers Unocal diesel over anything else. It really prefers 65psi up front, 55 in the rear. I seldom push ole' Wilber past 3000rpm. He knows that I know where the torque peak is. 2300! He'll pull the camp trailer up the pass at more than 70mph if I ask. I keep Wilber clean. Inside and out. I make sure the oil changes, -all 15 quarts, are at regular intervals. Along with the 22 point checks I do every 5000 miles. Nope, never been back to the dealer for a repair.

Wrong forum? Nope..

I have a few 1911's now. ~1937 Colt Service Model, ~1985 Colt Officer's ACP, 2005 Kimber Stainless II. And I take care of them the same way.

I could feed the Colts Puppy Chow and they'd spit rock salt out the rifling. I've never had one issue with them. I haven't owned the Kimber long enough yet, but with only 350rnds through it so far, it's functioned very well. I have several revolvers, and like them just as much as any of my autoloaders. The 1911 design has been around for ar too long, surviving the worst of critics, allowing hundreds of thousands, -survival. The design is reliable. But if a manufacture didn't send it out reliable, then I think we should all make sure that the manufacture "makes it reliable".

We owe that to ourselves.

-Steve

HD
October 5, 2005, 01:16 PM
"then I think we should all make sure that the manufacture "makes it reliable".

We owe that to ourselves."

if i do it myself , i know its done right and not by someone with a snootfull of gawdonlyknowswhat recreational drug on a monday after an allnight beer/cocaine bash on sunday...

i guess i will keep the PX9109L because i've debugged it to the point where i can trust it as a paperpuncher ...
the WW2 functions now , and someones offered me an almost nib sig 228 with extras for it , i may just go for it ...

briang2ad
October 5, 2005, 01:27 PM
I've had some good and some bad range experiences with my SA 1911 from the early nineties. On my last outing, I used Garand grease on it and my CZ 75. It was a cool day. The 75 ran like a top, the 1911 choked on ball continuously. OK - maybe I need to stay away form grease on the slide on a 1911, but I say that they are more finicky - especially non-GI guns.

For a 45, why not a Ruger? I read plenty of good things on their accuracy and reliability.

ny32182
October 5, 2005, 01:29 PM
Threads like these are the reason I've never had the slightest desire to own a 1911. Once a gun has malfunctioned even one time, if the malf can't be explained, I have trouble ever trusting it again. Sig did it for me. Well, until yesterday. My P226 .40 has never malfed from day one. My brand new SP2022 saw its second range trip yesterday. First time out, 90rds with no problem. Yesterday, right after I started shooting, the 2022 had a failure to lock open: the first malf I have ever seen or experienced with a SIG. I had noticed that simply retracting the slide on an empy mag often yeilded a weakly enganged lockback, so this didn't come as a total surprise.

After the failure to lock open, I observed the position of the slide catch after a lockback every time. For the last hundred rounds yesterday, it was a good solid engagement every time. And that was loading 3 rds per mag for the last 100, so that was a good number of lockbacks.

Researching other people's experiences with the same gun, I encountered *several* cases where people said they had numerous failures to lockback during the first few boxes of ammo, but now the same pistols are 100% reliable.

Based on that, I think there is a good chance that my pistol will never experience another failure. If the next 1000 or so rounds go off without a hitch, I'll be comfortable with carrying it.

I'm amazed at IDPA matches. Every singe month, it seems like I see someone who *actually carries* the 1911 and ammo they are shooting at the match, doing malfunction drill(s) mid stage. I just don't get it. If you want a 1911 for a range gun, fine. But why... why carry one when there are so many more reliable options out there?

1911Tuner
October 5, 2005, 02:04 PM
Funny...I almost never get to practice a malfunction drill with any of mine...
and I have 37 of'em. Maybe once a year, and I shoot some funky ammo.
My average round count per range run is 500+...and I go three or four times a week. Got two Colts that I've used for beaters since 1991. One has never burped...Never. The other has had two or three, but hasn't stopped in about 7 or 8 years. Both guns were rebuilt at about 75,000 rounds, and are both on their third barrel. Haven't retensioned an extractor on either since the first time. Two others...a '95 production 1991A1 and a ought one production NRM are pretty much the same, though their respective round counts aren't as high. Probably 50k for the pair. .


What's my secret? Good magazines with good springs. (I avoid 8-round mags like they had boils) Good extractors, made of the right stuff and correctly tensioned. Decent ammo. 98% of what I shoot is reloaded with my home-cast bullets, so that's not a major factor...but good ammo increases the odds of reliability. I don't overspring the guns, and I don't use shock buffs or full-length guide rods or extended slidestops or any of that custom or competition only stuff. Aside from a little attention to detail, none of the guns have had any top-secret stuff done to'em. No tricks. No voodoo. Nothin' special.
Just plain old pistols that wouldn't draw attention at a flea market.

Just can't figger it. I must lead a charmed life or somethin'........Nahhhhhh :p

Would I trust a 1911 in a real-world encounter? One of mine, you betcha.
Not too sure about any that I read about on the boards though... :neener:

ghost squire
October 5, 2005, 02:05 PM
Because no better single stack single action in .45 is out there maybe?

Yardstick
October 5, 2005, 02:12 PM
Some of the companies are obviously letting quality slip. I hadn't checked out any SA 1911's until recently. I can't remember what model it was, but it was full-size and blued. That thing had the worst trigger I've ever felt on a 1911. It felt like there was a notch where the sear slipped off the hammer, but still kept the hammer back and then the next 'break' let the hammer fall.

A friend picked up a Kimber BP Ten II recently that doesn't like to go into battery unless you death-grip it. It shoots okay otherwise, but I would have expected better accuracy from a 4" gun.

I have a couple of cheaper 1911's that run really well. My Charles Daly had an issue with a ********** firing pin spring that would have been a good pick for a small car. With that replaced and the feed ramp polished up a little it runs great and makes pretty darn good groups (3" at 15 yards). My Dan Wesson 1911 is super tight and the slide is so smooth it feels like pieces of glass riding over eachother. The only issue it has is that sometimes it doesn't like to feed the first round from the mag (nosediving). I'm sure it would benefit from a light polishing on the feed ramp. Other than that my 15 yard groups end up being 2" off-hand and closer if I rest it. I think the Daly's trigger is about 4.5-5lbs and the DW's is more like 4-4.5lbs, both break clean with no creep.

Old Dog
October 5, 2005, 03:02 PM
Ah well. I must be one of the lucky ones, too ... Nine Springers, two bought in the past year ... all outstanding (even my loaded Micro Compact). I've been a loyal SA customer for 15 years, and I'll continue to support the company.

HD
October 5, 2005, 03:08 PM
since i'll be keeping the loaded SA , i'll bring it with me and let you go thru it ... other than the @#$%^&*)(_+}{":?><~`|\ extractor and stopplate there aren't any real remaining problems with this toy ...
and the extractor goes away asa i get my hands on a couple of irv's milspec extractors ...
i should be quite happy with the 245 except for the 'bulk' compared to a similar sized 1911...
i'll be glad when the 1st pattern disruptors hit the market ...

robertbank
October 5, 2005, 03:23 PM
My Para SSP and four Norincos have never had a hic-up. Limp wristing my A1 Norinco will change the demnsions of a fired case often but that isn't the guns fault. With the proper recoil spring my Trojan in 9MM functions flawlessly. About as accurate as my S&W K 38 and that is saying something about the Trojan.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
October 5, 2005, 03:48 PM
Unfortunately, " the problem is , all too often they come back worse off then they left... ".

I'm sorry to hear that. Honestly, I've only ever sent one firearm back to the manufacture for repair. A Taurus model 66. They fixed my mistake. (Loads for the Blackhawk should never be loaded in a lighter framed revolver. I broke the frame lock.) But, they fixed it perfectly with no questions asked. They didn't touch the custom trigger and hammer. Even left my sights and custom grips on it. It was returned in about 6 weeks.

But, I can agree with you, If I can fix something myself, I will. Just for convenience if nothing else. -Note that my one year old truck has never been back to the dealer for a computer re-flash or other service. I probably trust manufacture/dealer technicians less than you. Have there been some minor things wrong with it, yes, but I've handled them myself. As I would probably attempt with any of my autoloaders. I limit myself to just trigger work on the revolvers and bolt actions.

My ultimately reliable autoloader... (with what appear to be more transient parts than a fighter jet.) My Ruger P-85. -Yes, it's a 9, (45 set on stun), but with a 15rnd mag I have extra rounds to double tap with. It's like the Mosburg or Remington pump shotgun you can drop in the mud and keep on Duck hunting with.

-Steve

Greymoor
October 5, 2005, 04:49 PM
I only have 1 1911. That one is a Kimber TLE II. I only have about 1400 rounds through it but it is a hoot to shoot. It has never given me a problem. So far I have used the Kimber mag that came with it and some standart GI 7 shot mags I purchased from Ammoman. They have all been great. I will have to do a lot more shooting to reach the round count some of you folks have on your 1911s but so far, so good. I was even thinking about picking up another 1911 but I am a bit concerned with all the problems people are having with theirs.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
October 5, 2005, 04:51 PM
I'd bet that for every one malfunctioning 1911 out there, there's a hundred or maybe even a thousand good ones.

-Steve

rustymaggot
October 5, 2005, 05:35 PM
ive only ever owned one 1911. it was a colt government model i believe. it had a few failure to feeds but i expect that from any brand new gun. after the first 300 rounds it was very reliable.

my friend has a cheep 1911 and he has lots of extra aftermarket parts on it. bad news cause his never gets thru a box of ammo without a jam. i had to help him do a bunch of stuff to his to get it to even finish a clip without jamming. polishing the feed ramp was the first thing we did and that helped alot.

i had a browning hipower knockoff made in argentina. not real accurate as it was a very worn barrel but it never failed to function as far as i remember.

sc1911cwp
October 5, 2005, 05:47 PM
I have only two 1911's. One a Colt Delta Elite Gold Cup that I no longer shoot after only 200 rounds, and a S&W 1911 that I shoot all the time. That S&W runs like a champ. Never a FTF, fit and finish great, no complaints. I'll probably send the DE back to Colt to refinish, only small stuff but I've deided not to shoot it any longer. Hard to due as I really like 10mm. Looking to get a CZ-DW in 10mm but who knows. What I see from most mosts in the last two years is with 1911's is almost hit and miss, unless you spend big bucks. If I did that I don't know if I would want to shoot such an expensive gun since Im not in LE or competitive shooter. Wondering about other things like a Sig or another Glock.

Dave T
October 5, 2005, 06:15 PM
I sometimes wonder if I in fact live in an alternative universe. My first 1911 style gun was a MK IV Series 70 purchased new in 1974. It was my duty gun. I've owned more than I can remember, mostly used but a few new ones on occasion. Only two didn't work, a Colt Delta 10mm and a Colt Combat Government Model. Both were used and they had been "gunsmithed" into malfunctioning.

I don't buy "Match" guns, don't have tightened guns, don't like Series 80s (Colt)or Series IIs (Kimber). I have a Wilson KZ-45 I bought used. It may well be the best 1911 style 45 ACP I have ever owned. I liked it so much I bought a new KZ-45 Compact.

They all work with ball, hollow points and reloads. Oh and yea, I clean then and lubricate then (and the magazines). I read these threads and wonder where you guys find the 1911s that don't work?

Dave

DonGlock26
October 8, 2005, 06:33 PM
I was issued a P220R about two years ago. It has never jammed after many rounds fired in happiness(range). It is accurate and points very well. The stainless steel P220 is even better in the accuracy and recoil dept. They are tighter and are best lubed with gun grease. I hear too many 1911 horror stories to depend on one for SD.

I have shot 1911's, but they don't impress me like the P220(especially the P220ST).

Tokugawa
October 8, 2005, 09:58 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that all the fancy stuff on 1911's is just dress up for the dance. But you know, it's damn hard to dance in high heels. An old fashioned plain- jane 5" .45, just like JMB designed it is more likely to work, IMHO. I bought a colt series 70 years ago and never had a bit of trouble with it. Same can't be said for the fancy .45's I bought.

Dienekes
October 8, 2005, 10:29 PM
Got my first 1911 via the DCM circa 1959. Too bad that lemons have been made since but the only clone in my herd is an SA Mil-Spec that works well. I am mostly a wheelgunner these days but for me the 1911 is better than anything else--BHPs, Glocks, SIGs, and a recent unlamented P97. Less fuss, more and quicker hits.

Sometimes less is more, and particularly so with 1911s.

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