Why does EAA suck? If you didn't already know


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atblis
October 5, 2005, 10:52 AM
Okay, I spoke to Mark Galli about my service woes. He said he'd send me the spring and apologized for the way things have been handled in the past. He also very adamently stated the there would be changes coming to EAA (Exactly what he was not at liberty to say).

I guess I'll wait a little longer and see what happens

Below is my original post.

They have/had some neat products but their customer service must be killing their business. This isn't my first go round with them (It will be my last). I am selling all my Witnesses and getting a Glock.

I have a 10mm Witness that has broken a firing pin retaining spring (new gun too). The rear sight flew off. The magazine split in half. They basically told me it was my fault and told me to go $%*% myself

First question out of their mouth "what ammo have you been shooting" and it was in a tone that I don't appreciate.

My answer
"Georgia Arms"

Them
"That sounds like reloads. Hot ammo"

Me
"No, they are factory new ammo and a 180gr at 1150 doesn't sound very hot to me"

Them "Well sir that was what broke your gun"

At that point I was thinking whatever. I am sick of this crap. It only took 2 months to even talk to anyone.

If something like that broke on another gun (that you had a registered warranty for), most companies would send you a new part without batting an eye.

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middy
October 5, 2005, 11:08 AM
Sorry you had to learn the hard way. I'm sure you'll like your G20...

armoredman
October 5, 2005, 11:23 AM
I have always liked Tanfoglio products, but the importer, EAA, has never impressed me much. I had heard someone new was in charge of customer disservice, and was trying to change things, but I guess that was wrong too.
I no longer have any Tanfolgios, and this is a CZ house.... :)

Marnoot
October 5, 2005, 11:30 AM
I no longer have any Tanfolgios, and this is a CZ house.... +1
Why buy the clones when you can have the real thing?

Derby FALs
October 5, 2005, 11:38 AM
If only CZ would produce a 10MM. :banghead:

cookekdjr
October 5, 2005, 12:01 PM
atblis,

sorry for your bad experience. Maybe you can find a good gunsmith who can fix it at a reasonble cost?
Good luck,

David

atblis
October 5, 2005, 12:08 PM
I just don't particular want to (and shouldn't have to). EAA sucks.

I am already a CZ fanatic. If CZ made a 38super and 10mm, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I need something to shoot and hunt with. The Witnesses just won't hold together long enough to do this (every one that has one that "works perfectly" and feels like telling me don't bother). I've had four Witnesses. Two have been decent and two have been utter pieces of crap. This damn thing is just a lemon.

The Glock doesn't bother me except for the trigger.

ID_shooting
October 5, 2005, 12:32 PM
You want to unload that witness, let me know.

Stickjockey
October 5, 2005, 12:41 PM
And here I was wondering why someone would be posting here about problems with the Experimental Aircraft Association... :o

Rob1035
October 5, 2005, 04:03 PM
It's sad really, as I really like the steel Witness pistols; they are inexpensive and seem to be accurate, but good customer service is worth a lot to me...

Mannlicher
October 5, 2005, 07:53 PM
apocryphal stories, and anecdotal accounts do not make a complete history of events.
I have owned two EEA pistols. One worked fine from the gitgo. The other went back for service, and was returned in perfect condition. Thats anectotal also, but you get the point.

ghost squire
October 5, 2005, 08:18 PM
180 at 1100 fps isn't hot at all for a 10mm, they are just talking out their asses. Thats a complete enough history for me to never buy from them. Just like that RMA thread awhile back about blackrazors gun, that one account is enough for me to never use them.

cxm
October 5, 2005, 08:25 PM
My wife bought an EAA .45 some years ago... it was sort of ok... until a spring broke in the trigger mechanism... not a big problem but should not happen with only a few hundered rounds.

After lots of phone calls to EAA on my dime, I finally spoke to someone in what they mis-represent as customer relations...

Finally was told the problem was the ammo not the gun (unlike S&W who is MOST helpful) and it was not covered by warranty... I asked how they could tell without seeing the gun...and got a "wise-guy" answer of some sort.

Ayway, about $150 later they replaced the spring, I paid shipping both ways and for the repair... and it was the first and last EAA product of any sort we have purchased since then.

I was totally dissatisfied and have nothing positive to say about EAA.

FWIW

Chuck

Shootcraps
October 5, 2005, 09:37 PM
There is no Hell, like that which is called "EAA Customer Service".

I will never buy another EAA product as long as their "gunsmith" Paul Richter and "president" Keith Bernkrant are still employed there.

Moparmike
October 6, 2005, 01:47 AM
ID_shooting, you have a PM.

GunGoBoom
October 6, 2005, 08:56 PM
If only CZ would produce a 10MM.

Yap. This is why I have 2 CZs in 9mm (soon to be 3), and 1 Glock in 10mm. I'd heard a smorgasbord of both good and bad about the Witness line and EAA, so I never acted on the urge to get one of those 6" camo'ed Witness Steel pistols I wanted in 10mm. I do have 1 Tanfoglio pistol, but it was a pre-EAA tanfoglio (I wanna say FIE?) - TZ75.

nvrquit
October 6, 2005, 10:18 PM
Mannlicher,

While some members may have posted related experiences as a result of owning and requiring service from EAA in reference to Tanfoglio manufactured pistols, that other members observe and opine upon as possibly inconclusive or inconsequential, rest assured not all experiences can be dismissed as such.

My own experience in owning and dealing with an EAA supported/serviced(laughingly so) Tanfoglio Witness pistol, mirrors many such reported experiences. Directly, all my correspondence with EAA, both electronic and conventional, were saved and are documented. In addition, I have retained photographs of the pre and post service conditions of the related pistol. My one and only regret was not retaining a video tape of the actual pistol in repetitive failure to operate in an acceptable manner(following return from EAA's first repair attempt). I can state without fear of meaningful contradiction that EAA's past customer service, as related to my personal experience, was nothing short of travesty.

I too find the Tanfoglio Witness CZ clone design to be pleasing to my hand and well balanced. Would that most every example function in some manner of reliability, that EAA would provide a moderately acceptable form of professionally courteous customer service or some passable combination of these, I might yet again own a Tanfoglio Witness. I'm glad that not all Tanfoglio Witness purchasers have had to experience such gruff and unctuous handling by EAA. However, upon those that doubt such has ever or could ever occur, I would wholeheartedly welcome such an experience.


On a lighter more wishful note, boy would I really like a CZ-97B in 10mm!

Majic
October 6, 2005, 10:43 PM
It depends on how the story was told. If I got a phone call about a firing pin spring breakage, rear sight fyling off, and a magazine splitting the first thing to pop in my mind would be the pistol blew up. The first thing to suspect is the ammo and factory ammo can have defects also.
It is a bit unusual to bad mouth a company that you did get 2 good products from. Why would you get rid of the 2 good pistols because you had trouble with another? Suppose what you replaced them with required repairs? Just because of a name stamped on the product doesn't mean it can't be defective.

ghost squire
October 7, 2005, 12:55 AM
You can't be serious Majic?

Crosshair
October 7, 2005, 02:23 AM
They shot themselves in the foot with a 12 Gauge when they stoped importing Saiga rifles and shotguns. I'm glad I got mine. (Converting it to pistol grip now too. :cool: )

orangeninja
October 7, 2005, 03:35 AM
Personally I am graced enough to be able to afford a gun AND customer service. I will gladly shuck over a few more dollars to a company that will stand behind their product than one who does not. The ONLY handguns I will consider owning are:

Sig
Glock
CZ
Smith and Wesson
and maybe a Ruger revolver, though not an auto...I had a terrible experience witha P97 that they jerked me around on but eventually made right.

Matthew748
October 7, 2005, 07:24 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I would like to get a pistol chambered in 10mm sometime before the holidays and was considering EAA. Unless I hear about them improving customer service I will no longer consider them. I sure wish CZ or Beretta made a 10mm pistol. The pickings are very slim right now.

Onmilo
October 7, 2005, 09:46 AM
Different views from different people I guess.
I blew up a 10mm Witness, my fault, not theirs.
They fixed the gun for about $150.00 but I didn't get my adjustable sights back.
What they did send was a set of checkered walnut grips at no charge.
Turn around was about two weeks.
All in all, I thought everything was fair

nvrquit
October 7, 2005, 10:20 AM
... this instance is service related to stated warranty.


EAA has stated that they will service/repair the Tanfoglio pistol to the satisfaction of the customer. I will admit that there are always limits to be expected within this type of service. That stated, for those that don't know the history, I'll provide a link to previous post(s) over on TFL:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74160

Read the related experiences that were posted. Unfortunately, the links posted within that posting are no longer available, as Shooters.com is now dead and CZForum has for some unknown reason, purged some(but not all) older postings(and this happened before the recent spate of hackings and crashes).

Unfortunately, the Tan Witness is the only all steel compact design available to those wishing for such in 10mm. I believe that Tanfoglio is suffering lost market share, directly owed to the fact EAA's attempt at CS is so woeful and at times, very discourteous to the customer base. That said, I do believe that the Tan Witness offers a value for the price, in so long as the purchaser realizes that their best option for a repair of a non-functioning example may not be the authorized servicing agent.

To those that have never experienced EAA's lack of professional courtesy, I'm happy for you. However, your collective good luck does in no way ameliorate the unprofessional and self-righteous servile manner that far too many others have experienced in dealing with EAA's representatives.

A true shame, as the Tan Witness fits me and many others so well.

mfree
October 7, 2005, 10:41 AM
Perhaps it's time to draft a community letter to Tanfoglio directly, letting them know that EAA is applying a direct twisting motion to the canine here and they should find a better importer, after which their business would *explode* in the united states?

Shootcraps
October 7, 2005, 10:41 AM
That said, I do believe that the Tan Witness offers a value for the price, in so long as the purchaser realizes that their best option for a repair of a non-functioning example may not be the authorized servicing agent.


+1. It's a good value IF you have a smith who can work on it. But after a couple hundred dollars, you're getting into the cost of a Glock 20 or 29. You'd have to decide it it's worth it to you.

Jhorn
October 7, 2005, 11:27 AM
I always wondered why they were so cheap. I have been tempted in the past because the just 'feel' so good in your hand.

Thanks for the heads up

atblis
October 10, 2005, 10:51 PM
"It depends on how the story was told. If I got a phone call about a firing pin spring breakage, rear sight fyling off, and a magazine splitting the first thing to pop in my mind would be the pistol blew up. The first thing to suspect is the ammo and factory ammo can have defects also.
It is a bit unusual to bad mouth a company that you did get 2 good products from. Why would you get rid of the 2 good pistols because you had trouble with another? Suppose what you replaced them with required repairs? Just because of a name stamped on the product doesn't mean it can't be defective."

I never mentioned the rear sight to EAA.
The 10rnd mags are notorious for splitting (due to the way they are made).
I don't know how defective ammo (whether hand rolled or store bought) could break a firing pin spring. It was simply a factory defect.

"Why would you get rid of the 2 good pistols because you had trouble with another?"

Because the company pissed me off, and trust me they have earned the bad mouthing. I've had two good pistols and two bad. 50/50 is not good.

BTW, they have used the "hot handloads" excuse on other people.

M2 Carbine
October 10, 2005, 11:23 PM
EAA gave me that BS about ammo to, even though they had already admitted the gun was defective.

I'll never buy anything from those butt heads again. :mad:

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