Wife OK's New PTR-91


PDA






amprecon
October 5, 2005, 02:15 PM
My wife has relented and given me the go-ahead to get the PTR-91. Atlantic Firearms has the PTR-91 SPB for $769, which is the cheapest I've found.
I have been weighing the PTR-91 against the DSA-58, but cannot find them at the PTR-91 prices. I don't have experience with either rifle, but believe that after much use the controls will become second nature as with anything else.
I wanted a hi-cap, accurate, durable and reliable .308 battle rifle and feel that this G3 clone meets the criteria fully, just in a non-traditional way and for a cheaper price. Not to mention the vast quantities of cheap magazines for them.
However, I am currently deployed to Iraq so am relying on her to go to the gun store and perform the deal which I know will be extremely painful for her.
I would like to hear from owners of both if I'm doing the right thing going for the PTR-91 or should I just go with the DSA-58 instead.
Cost is an issue, especially if I have to tell my wife that since she's let me get A rifle, why not put out an extra $100-$150 for a "better" rifle. That dog just won't hunt with her.
BTW, we live in Memphis and will probably go through Range USA on Whitten Rd. I haven't seen any gunstores in the local area that carry the PTR-91.

If you enjoyed reading about "Wife OK's New PTR-91" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dolanp
October 5, 2005, 02:24 PM
Congrats, I think those are fine rifles. I have been eyeing them for a while now but I haven't gotten the budget approved by she who must be obeyed. :p

Redlg155
October 5, 2005, 02:43 PM
A closer comparison would be the DSA STG58A series built from kits with a DSA reciever and required USA parts. Should run about $800 for one. The SA-58 rifles are much more expensive.

I've owned the STG58A Carbine and it was a VERY nice rifle. I loved the little thing. The downfall was the muzzle brake. It was very efficient. Almost no recoil. However, firing from the bench sent lots of paint chips and sand all over. I wouldn't fire it very much from the prone position. Actually, I ended up getting rid of it for that reason.

Good Shooting
Red

Father Knows Best
October 5, 2005, 04:55 PM
A closer comparison would be the DSA STG58A series built from kits with a DSA reciever and required USA parts. Should run about $800 for one.

Not really. The STG58 series include used (surplus) barrels. The PTR-91 uses new, match grade barrels.

The results speak for themselves. I have an SA58 (top of the line from DSA) and a base model PTR-91. The SA58 cost twice as much as the PTR ($1400 vs. $700). The PTR is the more accurate rifle, without a doubt.

I really like the SA58, but the PTR-91 is a heck of a value. It's rock solid reliable, inexpensive and unbelievably accurate for a battle rifle.

Headless Thompson Gunner
October 5, 2005, 05:03 PM
The STG-58 barrels are "new", it's just that they were manufactured a few decades ago. The rifles that DSA assembles and sells as their STG-58 are built from parts that Steyr manufactured with the intention of selling to the Austrian government. For whatever reason, Steyr never delivered the rifles. They sat around unused until DSA bought them.

My DSA STG-58 gives me 1.5 to 2 moa on good days. It has more than enough accuracy for a fighting rifle.

I would caution you against buying the PTR-91 over the STG-58. Accuracy of the old Steyr barrels isn't a problem. And you will be MUCH happier with the way the FAL's controls operate.

iamkris
October 5, 2005, 06:03 PM
I'll side with HTG on this one mostly because I hate the ergonomics of the HK MBR rifle system...the StG58A is the superior choice here. My DSA had a newly manufactured Steyr barrel and is no slouch for accuracy...2-3 MOA with Port surplus and 1-1.5MOA with my match loads. Dealer price should be pretty close to $800 + transfer fee.

Here's my "standard" answer that I use everytime this subject comes up (and it seems to come up every other week)

I have owned a HK G3 (Century C91 that was a perfect build...not typical Century crap) and a DSA STG 58A. I still own the FAL and sold the G3...here's why:

FAL wins on the following
* FAL has overall superior ergonomics for me
* FAL has bolt open (G3 does not)
* Couldn't reach either selector without changing grip...can fix that on FAL with L1A1 selector
* FAL mag release is easier to manipulate (assuming no paddle release on G3, if so then equal)
* FAL charging handle is in appropriate place (what idiot puts the charging handle near the muzzle of a rifle?)
* FAL breaks down/easier to clean and maintain MUCH easier than G3. WAY better than the G3 with the clunky pins, removal of the buttstock, trigger pack sitting on a shelf that as to be JUST so.
* FAL has more simple locking mechanism
* FAL is "prettier" (subjective)
* FAL has adjustable gas system (but I personally don't see that as a big deal)
* Aftermarket Goodies -- FAL hands down. Easy to build (not as easy as an AR) and lots of companies supply aftermarket stuff for them...not so many for the G3


Here's where G3 wins
* Feels slightly more balanced/handy (subjective)
* G3 mags are better designed and snap in with more authority

Ties:
* Weight -- about the same
* Reliabilty -- HK fans say their system is more reliable. FAL was choice for 90+ countries and piston op gas systems are uber reliable. A wash in my opinion.
* Cost -- About the same -- Century builds of either ab out $500, PTR91 to ORF / DSA about $700-900, the real deal about the same.
* Both are accurate for a MBR (2-3 MOA) ... HK fans will sy that their rifle is more accurate but I can find equal number of accurate / inaccurate G3's and FALs from people I know. My DSA will shoot 2-3 MOA with Port surplus
* Both have similar recoil but impulse is different

That's it...usiing those criteria, FAL wins hands down for me. YMMV

Father Knows Best
October 5, 2005, 06:25 PM
The STG-58 barrels are "new", it's just that they were manufactured a few decades ago. The rifles that DSA assembles and sells as their STG-58 are built from parts that Steyr manufactured with the intention of selling to the Austrian government. For whatever reason, Steyr never delivered the rifles. They sat around unused until DSA bought them.

That's not what DSA says. This is direct from DSA's website:

The STG58 rifles feature Very Good to Excellent barrels, which means a bright and shiny bore with clean lands and grooves. There may be minor surface imperfections visible to the eye, but they will not impair shootability. Throats and muzzles will gauge within U.S. military tolerances for wear and serviceability. Brand new button rifled barrels are available as an extra cost option.

To each their own. I'm not dissing the STG58. As I said, I have an SA58, and it is a fantastic rifle. The ergonomics are superior (in my estimation) to the PTR-91, and it is softer shooting. I just think that the PTR-91 is a tremendous value in a rock solid reliable and unusually accurate battle rifle.

iamkris
October 5, 2005, 06:51 PM
PTR-91 is a tremendous value in a rock solid reliable and unusually accurate battle rifle

That is an undeniable fact. Even though I like the FAL better, I'd still like to own a PTR...especially the K model.

Headless Thompson Gunner
October 5, 2005, 08:05 PM
Hmm... When I was contemplating the purchase of my STG-58 I called DSA to ask a few questions. Among them were "how many rounds have been fired by the parts used to build these rifles?" The nice lady told me that the parts in the STG-58s were old but not used. "New old stock" was the term she used.

The DSA lady told me that they had a bunch of parts kits from Steyr rifles that had been issued and used by the Austrian military. But she said those parts were sold as parts kits or spare parts only, not as complete rifles.

Maybe things have changed in the last few years. :confused:

Doesn't much matter though. The STG-58s are excellent rifles either way.

Father Knows Best
October 5, 2005, 08:19 PM
Doesn't much matter though. The STG-58s are excellent rifles either way.

+1. If I didn't have an SA58 (that I bought used), I would definitely have a STG-58. My enthusiasm for the PTR-91 should not be taken to mean that I am any less enthusiastic about the STG58.

Mannlicher
October 5, 2005, 08:28 PM
you have to ask permission for toys? :)

SoonerGunner
October 5, 2005, 11:39 PM
I love my PTR 91K go with that.

Kurt
October 6, 2005, 01:01 AM
Congrats on one of the top choices!

:D

halastrion
October 6, 2005, 01:42 AM
I bought a PTR-91 a few months back and really like it... I got a pretty good deal at SARCO similar to the price you are listing.

My only complaint would be that the polymer stock is really slippery and it moves around a lot. I still haven't gotten around to putting on a different butt pad...

John...

Onmilo
October 6, 2005, 09:55 AM
I sold my DSA FAL and bought a PTR91 about one year later.
I don't regret the decision.
The PTR is a blowback action and does produce more felt recoil than an FAL but I solved that with a Simms Laboratories, slip on, Limbsaver recoil pad, size small.
As a bonus, the slip on pad adds about an inch of length making the short stock more comfortable for me.

Joe Mamma
October 6, 2005, 07:40 PM
How do the sights compare between the DSA FAL and the PTR 91? I think you can get different sites with the FAL, but, I curious for any information. It seems like the PTR91's sight might be better at long distances just because you have different size peep holes?

Also, can you change the PTR91's sight to a real HK sight which has a "V" notch at the 100 yard/meter distance? I reently saw the sights for sale but, I dont know if it's easy to change. I don't like the peep hole sights.

Thanks.

Joe Mamma

Onmilo
October 6, 2005, 08:21 PM
FAL sight offers better windage adjustment.
PTR91/H&K is a rotating drum while the FAL uses a sliding apeture for elevation, neither of which could be considered precise and neither offers an advantage over the other.

You can fit an original German style sight drum on the PTR91.
The 100 meter 'V' sight is only advantageous when used in conjunction with tritium night sights, be it front tritium only or a combination of front and rear dots.

'V' type sights are not practical on rifles with the rear sight set close to the eye.

Joe Mamma
October 6, 2005, 08:38 PM
The 100 meter 'V' sight is only advantageous when used in conjunction with tritium night sights, be it front tritium only or a combination of front and rear dots.

'V' type sights are not practical on rifles with the rear sight set close to the eye.


I have VERY limited rifle shooting experience but, some of that experience includes 3-gun competition (rifle, pistol, shotgun). Sometimes, I had to shoot very close targets very quickly and it seemed like the notch and post on an AK (similar to the "V" concept) was much faster than a traditional peep rear sight. Granted, an AK's rear sight is not close to the eye but, am I wrong in thinking that a "V" with the PTR91 would be much faster than a hole?

Joe Mamma

Onmilo
October 7, 2005, 09:55 AM
No you wouldn't be wrong in thinking that thought to a point.
Fast reaction, close range, targets can be effectively engaged by spotting over the rear sight and only using the front sight.
Then again, I too shoot three gun and use a dot optic mounted on an AR15 for that game and I have yet to see anybody win rifle leg or overalls using an AK varient rifle,,,,,

Father Knows Best
October 7, 2005, 10:27 AM
FAL sight offers better windage adjustment.

Why do you say that? Windage adjustment on my PTR-91 couldn't be easier. There is a large windage adjustment knob on the right side of the rear sight. Turning it 1/4 of a turn moves the point of impact about 1.25 inches at 100 yards (just as 1/4 rotation of the sight drum moves POI up or down 1.25"). A single phillips head screw serves to lock the windage adjustment once you have it set.

A disadvantage to the PTR-91 rear sight, and all HK drum type sights, is that they require a special tool to adjust for elevation. Sure, they have built in settings for 100, 200, 300 and 400 meters, but fine tuning the drum to get the elevation dead on at one of those ranges requires the tool. JLD sells the tool for $26, but you may be able to find it for less elsewhere. And no -- the CETME sight adjustment tool doesn't work as the CETME's sight dimensions are different.

If you enjoyed reading about "Wife OK's New PTR-91" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!