Matrix... Berettas.. Gun future bleak..


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twoblink
March 29, 2003, 11:02 AM
(Flame Suit on)
OK, I started to see some posters for the next Matrix movie go up. They were using Berettas.

All I have to say is, if in the future, the most advanced gun is a Beretta 92.. We have lost the firearms war. :banghead:

Horrible! You'd think with enough technology to produce the matrix, they'd have something better then 9mm Berettas...

(Let the flames begin!!)

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keyhole
March 29, 2003, 11:07 AM
Nahhhhhh,,,,probably think they look neato on screen. After all, new tech Glock doesn't have the looks of a Baretta, or my fav, 1911, but is still a great gun.
No need for the asbestos suit here..........:neener:

El Tejon
March 29, 2003, 11:12 AM
two, in the future Congressperson Boohoo selects the pistols as in the '80s.:D Some things never change.

two, don't ya think it's all about the Benjamins via product placement. Why the M9? Somebody got paid!:)

Justin
March 29, 2003, 12:00 PM
Um, Twoblink, while the full world of 'The Matrix' takes place sometime near the year 2199, the electronic world inside of the matrix created by the machines takes place during the late 1990's, early 2000's.
Remember, Morpeus points out that AI came into it's own at the dawn of the new millenium, and later Agent Smith tells Neo that the world of the matrix was a simulation of human civilization at it's height.
So that's why when the characters are inside the matrix there are no flying hovercrafts and lightning guns, but when they are in the real world there are.
Dig?

BTW, the quickest way to tell if they are inside the matrix or in the real world is to look at the tint of the screen. If the image is tinted slightly green (like an old computer monitor) then they are inside the matrix. If it's tinted blue or other colors, then they are in the real world.

(Yes, I realize that knowing this much about a movie makes me a dork. I don't care.)

gryphon
March 29, 2003, 12:19 PM
Justin,

Not a dork, just keanly observant.

The only other thing that I would add to what Justin said is that you also have ot remember that most of the things that people inside and outside the matrix remember is the virtual world. So while a few may be enlightened to the fact that there is a Matrix, they also only think that "some" rules can be broken. Otherwise they could not have another sequel. Neo would be a God and the only way that the machines could stop Neo would be to kill him in the real world.

dude
March 29, 2003, 12:25 PM
Matrix 2 & 3.............movie future bleak


I have hated the Matrix everytime I've tried to get through it. If I was given a chioce of only having an hour to live, or 2.5 but I had to watch the Matrix...........I'd choose the single hour.

jsalcedo
March 29, 2003, 12:36 PM
The "coolness" factor of the Beretta 92 went out with Mel Gibson in the first Lethal Weapon movie.


Not to knock them, I even own one. It just seems that the average American action movie goer would like to see something
more cutting edge like an HK P9, P7, or USP

Boats
March 29, 2003, 12:46 PM
Yeah, the P7, so cutting edge, appearing with the Beretta 92 in Die Hard, the quintessential 80s action movie. Neo could cap off 9 rounds and toss the P7 away twice as often.:rolleyes:

BTW, why should fictional characters in a movie overpay for plastic German hardware any more than someone should in reality?:neener:

Berettas may not be "cutting edge" pistol tech, but they undoubtedly film well, John Woo being chief among the culprits of making Berettas look really cool. Dang, they also seem to work, even feeding blanks.

One would think that since the "reality" of the Matrix can be "bent." that someone would have ported the weapons from Aliens by now, clever New Age hackers that they are.

Schuey2002
March 29, 2003, 01:35 PM
One poster shows Lawrence Fishbourne (aka Morpheus) using a large "stick" and a Beretta against 2 long haired BG's who are using only knives..

Where are the plasma weapons?? Or the caseless rifles??:uhoh:

http://i.timeinc.net/time/2002/matrix/images/photo5.jpg

El Tejon
March 29, 2003, 01:54 PM
Where are the plasma weapons and caseless rifles???

Schuey, the "Iwannacoolgun" guns don't work in the future either. Big sticks always seem to work though.:D

QuarterBoreGunner
March 29, 2003, 02:04 PM
Guys guys guys- you're missing the point: IT'S THE MATRIX.

"you think that's air your breathing?"


They could have any guns they wanted, it's just a matter of programming. Remember when Morpheus said that the Matrix was a representation of the world as it was at the end of the 20th century? So they're just using the weapons appropriate to that time period.


I am such a fanboy geek.

cratz2
March 29, 2003, 02:07 PM
Yes, it was decided somewhere around 2017 that 'plasma rifle in 40 watt range' was ineffective against those on PCP and some of the newer drugs so they went back to sticks.

Though I didn't care for the movie much, I did like the shockwave rifles in Minority Report. But even in that, someone ends up dying from a little 32 cal (?) revolver.

And in John Woo's defense, he did prominently feature not one but two 1911s in Faceoff. Of course, he had them gold plated but that's besides the point. :p

Schuey2002
March 29, 2003, 02:08 PM
Maybe you ought to give these guys a call and tell them about your "Iwannacoolgunvirus" ... :neener:

Don't these idiots know that you should always bring a gun to a knife fight?! :D
http://i.timeinc.net/time/2002/matrix/images/photo4.jpg

Croyance
March 29, 2003, 07:14 PM
In the Matrix world logic, a gun is merely an icon. You are more limited by your internal understandings of limitations. A Beretta in the right hands (mind) would not need reloading, and can destroy city blocks.
Indeed, with the right perspective, weapons and distance are totally irrelevant. At the end of the Matrix, there was no reason for Keanu Reeves to run into the Men in Black, or pick up the phone, he could have just made the effects he wanted to happen.
He could force the world into a surrealistic pattern. OTOH, there was no reason why the cell phones could be tapped, but the hard line couldn't.
In otherwords, just enjoy the special effects and action. The movie is very enjoyable from that perspective. On internal world logic, the first movie falls apart.

cool45auto
March 29, 2003, 08:21 PM
(sound of flamethrower being lit)

WWHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Berettas are the only guns in the future worth using!!!!!!!!!!!

:fire: :fire: :fire:



;)

Justin
March 30, 2003, 02:56 AM
In the Matrix world logic, a gun is merely an icon. You are more limited by your internal understandings of limitations. A Beretta in the right hands (mind) would not need reloading, and can destroy city blocks. Ah, but if you look at the construct of the matrix as nothing more than a humongous operating system (like Windows, but millions of times more complex) then it would take longer to hack the matrix to be able to have more powerful or better tools. It's much easier to use the cheesy little calculator program that comes with Windows (or a Beretta 92) than it is to write a calculator program from the ground up, even if the custom one would have functions that the cheesy windows one would not.

So, for the scene where Neo asks for 'Guns, lots of guns' it's much easier for Tank to just call up preprogrammed objects that already exist in the matrix (Beretta's, Micro UZI's, MP5K's) than it is for him to hack the matrix and write the code for some uber gun.

The same would go for Neo re-imagining the matrix as he sees fit. At the end of the first movie he can fly, but there's no telling how easy it is to bend the matrix program for things that don't directly affect you. (The power of a weapon, etc.) And it's likely that such glitches would cause a glitch in the matrix and catch the attention of the agents.

atek3
March 30, 2003, 03:39 AM
this thread is so dorky it's great!
I'm glad at least some gun nuts are dorks :)

atek3

Feanaro
March 30, 2003, 03:45 AM
Berettas are the only guns in the future worth using!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides the fact that a Colt will last much longer than a Beretta.... *hides* :D

Thumper
March 30, 2003, 09:46 AM
OK, you dorks...

So I think we all agree that Neo could "program on the fly" by the end of the first movie.

Maybe it WASN'T just a faux pas that a 9mm was throwing .223 brass in the foyer scene...maybe in his "Neo"phyte programing stage he DID create an ubergun?

Nope...they screwed up. :D

Feanaro
March 30, 2003, 09:52 AM
We all know Neo custom modded his pistols for .223.

Tim Burke
March 30, 2003, 09:54 AM
I'm glad that there is a second picture of Morpheus wielding his "stick."

Thumper
March 30, 2003, 09:55 AM
Beat ya to it, Feanaro.

Feanaro
March 30, 2003, 09:56 AM
*plots revenge*

cool45auto
March 30, 2003, 12:05 PM
Is that the one where the agents are shooting their desert eagles at Neo in that hallway?

George Hill
March 30, 2003, 03:58 PM
High Capacity. Looks Cool. Stable weapon. Accurate. Reliable.

Oh... I see. Its not the Gun of the Month cover gun on some rag.
:rolleyes:
At least it wasnt a RUGER!

bastiat
March 30, 2003, 04:19 PM
http://i.timeinc.net/time/2002/matrix/images/photo4.jpg

Uh oh. Does this picture mean that the bad guys in future look like Bee Gee rejects with dreadlocks and full length duster coats? Because that's just not a future to look forward to.

Mastrogiacomo
March 30, 2003, 04:36 PM
If I could own every Beretta of my choice --- they'd be no other guns in my future!!:neener: :D :D :D

nondescript
March 30, 2003, 07:28 PM
I think that Neo and his crew should be using stainless/nickel 93R's, it would look very cool to show an exotic Beretta in each hand blazing away at the Agents.
FN P90's would be sweet to see
Or a Barret semi-auto

Skunkabilly
March 30, 2003, 07:31 PM
Haven't seen any promo stuff for the second one, but does Trintity still use those two .380s? (hence having two? :D )

Or has she like Bond, James Bond, upgraded to the 9mm?

Andrew Wyatt
March 30, 2003, 09:28 PM
it's too bad the chick with a proper tase in weapons (the one with a Browning Hi Power, which is the second finest firearm designed by man) was killed in the first one.


I'd like to see more iron sighted NM wood stock m-1a's with half rubbed off jungle camo paintjobs and lightweight commanders with 25% finish coverage due to holster wear in the matrix movies. those moves are less cool because all the guns are shiney and new looking.

Rebel Gunman HK
March 31, 2003, 01:03 AM
Justin was exactly right. The Matrix was designed to be taking place right now. Even though its in the future. All survivors of the machine wars were forced under ground. All though they do have those Ghostbuster like guns as seen in the movie and the Animatrix now showin on Dreamcatcher. Thos ewere made in the "real" world of the future. Anyway, its just a really cool movie!!!!!!!!!!!!!:neener:

Justin
March 31, 2003, 03:19 AM
it's too bad the chick with a proper tase in weapons (the one with a Browning Hi Power, which is the second finest firearm designed by man) was killed in the first one. That'd be Switch. Her character was tres cool.

twoblink
March 31, 2003, 03:49 AM
The sad part is that some of you commented that this is SUPPOSE TO BE THE HEIGHT OF HUMAN EVOLUTION. We are seriously in trouble then. I don't know about a lot of you guys, but I don't think that a beretta is made very well; the balance is horrible, the most vulnerable part of the gun, the barrel is exposed, and what eats recoil (the motion of the slide going back as counter-force) is reduced in weight. So I think if we take a beretta to be the height of gun evolution, then we are in serious trouble.

And why aren't I seeing any Gun-Kata in there??

Trinity is pretty cool, I think is the plastic pants. What are the chances of me getting my girlfriend to wear plastic pants.:D

Tommy Gunn
March 31, 2003, 03:57 AM
If going for style points, then why not a Luger in there somewhere?

bastiat
March 31, 2003, 04:32 AM
The real answer:

The writers were movie makers. They were not gun designers. Heck, there's .223 brass falling from a 9mm machine pistol in the lobby scene. You expect them to come up with a revolutionary small arms design when they can't even tell that a 9mm shouldn't dump .223 brass?

P.S.: It's just a movie, man, it's just a movie. ;)

Justin
March 31, 2003, 04:56 AM
The sad part is that some of you commented that this is SUPPOSE TO BE THE HEIGHT OF HUMAN EVOLUTION. We are seriously in trouble then. Did not.:neener: I don't even like Beretta pistols, but apparently the character of Neo does. As far as the film making process goes, the Berettas were probably chosen for a couple of reasons:
1)Berettas modified with blank-adapted barrels tend to be much less finicky than other guns. If time=money, then taking the time to clear a jam and reset a scene to be filmed again translates to a big gob of cash.
2)The Wachowski brothers (the guys who directed The Matrix) are huge fans of John Woo, so it's likely they picked the Berettas as an homage to Woo's Hong Kong action flicks.
3)The Beretta is a distinctive looking pistol, one that is instantly recognizable to people who aren't gun aficionados.

If going for style points, then why not a Luger in there somewhere?Because they were going for the modern look. (Yes, I know the Beretta is a child of the 1980's, but considering the enduring popularity of the 1911, and other old models, the Beretta is a veritable infant.) However, if you wanna find a Matrix-esque flick with cool vintage hardware, take a look a Mamoru Oshii's AVALON (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0267287). Plenty of cool Eastern-bloc hardware, as well as some older stuff. In one of the previews you can see the protagonist using a Broomhandle Mauser.
You expect them to come up with a revolutionary small arms design when they can't even tell that a 9mm shouldn't dump .223 brass? And if they had, we'd all be sitting here yakking about how Neo's UberGun was soooo freaking fake because no real gun could ever do that!:uhoh:

Pinned&Recessed
March 31, 2003, 10:40 AM
a 9mm shouldn't dump .223 brass?

I don't want to come off as a movie-gun Über-dork, but in that scene Neo was using Skorpion machine pistols which are chambered in 7.65 Browning (.32ACP). :)

Good thread.

Thumper
March 31, 2003, 10:43 AM
Pinned & Recessed...what a great name.

Welcome.

And noone here will think you're a dork...you'r right:

The Skorpion was chambered in 7.65x17mm (.32ACP) in the vz.61; also 9x18mm Makarov in vz.82 and 9x17mm (.380ACP) in vz.83.

genie
March 31, 2003, 03:06 PM
after reading all that theory about how the matrix guns work, i have a headache. thanks guys.

i wanna fly like neo :)

spacemanspiff
March 31, 2003, 03:22 PM
any word on the other short films used as a prelude to Matrix Reloaded, when will they be shown?
final flight of the osiris was pretty cool.

"i peeked".

Justin
March 31, 2003, 03:36 PM
Go to http://www.intothematrix.com Two of the other Animatrix shorts have been made available for download.

Genie- Just remember, there is no spoon.:cool: <--Neato Matrix shades

Russ
March 31, 2003, 04:47 PM
Justin has it right about the timeline the machines created. The actual time is maybe 2,200 but the machines re-created the world to resemble the turn of the 20th Century. So you have Berettas. I don't like them either but they look good on screen just as the Desert Eagle, as used by the agents, looks good on screen. Who in their right mind would carry a full size DE?

Dude,

What can I say. You need to hone those attention skills. If you don't stay with the Matrix every minute, you will lose it. No going to the fridge for another beer.

dude
March 31, 2003, 09:51 PM
I'd rather stick hot pokers in my eyes than watch it again!

Stevie-Ray
March 31, 2003, 11:26 PM
Trintity

Is that a freudian slip?:D

George Hill
April 1, 2003, 11:44 AM
I just have to laugh at those that try to take some moral high ground by claiming to hate a movie or that they refuse to see it.
I knew one guy that was a self proclaimed movie critic... said he HATED one perticular movie that was obviously amazingly good. Said he couldn't STAND that movie.
I stopped by his pad one day to pick something up... He wanted me to wait in his main room. Okay. While waiting I looked at his movie collections. VHS and DVD on two seperate book cases to the left and right of the large TV stand.
On both sides rested copies of this supposedly horrible mobie that was a pain to watch.
:rolleyes:

Move critics are almost as hilarious as gun critics/writers.

I enjoyed The Matrix. Looking forward to parts 2 & 3.

Oh, that horrible movie he couldn't stand watching?

Saving Private Ryan. Yeah, I called him on it. :D

Justin
April 1, 2003, 01:20 PM
I just have to laugh at those that try to take some moral high ground by claiming to hate a movie or that they refuse to see it. For this very reason I watched 'Bowling For Columbine.' Michael Moore now owes me three and a half hours of my life back. (1 and a half for 'Roger and Me' and 2 for 'Bowling'):barf:

Tamara
April 1, 2003, 01:37 PM
Oh... I see. Its not the Gun of the Month cover gun on some rag.

...and when it was, you came completely unhinged (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59013). :D

Who are you and what have you done with George Hill? ;)

CatsDieNow
April 1, 2003, 02:27 PM
Justin,

Just how many times have you watched 'The Matrix'? I know I have seen it at least 10 times with you. I think that more than cancels out the 3 hours reseaching the dark side. ;)

Russ
April 1, 2003, 02:54 PM
Dude,

OUCH!

That hurts thinking about it. You wouldn't be much of a shot after that either.

It took me a couple of times watching it (sober) until I figured it out. Now I really think this movie should have won best picture. The plot is amazing. Maybe 2 and 3 will be better. Sure took them long enough to make sequels. The first came out in 1999.

Even if you don't see it. Stay away from the hot coals and red hot irons!

Russ

twoblink
April 2, 2003, 03:38 AM
As someone who is trying to study a little bit about gun design; the design of a Beretta is basically a sin in my book. Everything you ever want to NOT do, they have done.

So to Beretta, I give you :barf:

Schuey2002
April 2, 2003, 04:06 AM
Does the Rapid-Reloader, Skunkabilly, know you feel this way about Berettas?? :what:

:neener:

Justin
April 2, 2003, 04:09 AM
Just how many times have you watched 'The Matrix'? I know I have seen it at least 10 times with you. I think that more than cancels out the 3 hours reseaching the dark side. Ha. You left out the part where you mention that you prompted at least half of those viewings.:neener:
Besides, you saw it in the theaters more times than I did.

(Not that I expect this to make me any less of a dork...)

Andrew
April 2, 2003, 04:48 AM
Note!

That is not a stick Morpheus is wielding, it is a Katana (I.E. A Sword!)

CatsDieNow
April 2, 2003, 09:11 AM
Ha. You left out the part where you mention that you prompted at least half of those viewings.
While I love the movie, that's also partially because Lafayette only has one broadcast TV channel and you didn't have cable. We watched all your movies a half dozen times.

Although, even after all those viewings, you still can't tell me what kind of guns Mouse has just before he gets killed. What kind of movie/gun nut are you?

Boats
April 2, 2003, 09:24 AM
As someone who is trying to study a little bit about gun design; the design of a Beretta is basically a sin in my book. Everything you ever want to NOT do, they have done.

Do enlighten us. I have found the B92 delightfully sinful in that it always fed, always fired, and always ejected. What a stupid design huh?

Schuey2002
April 2, 2003, 01:28 PM
That is not a stick Morpheus is wielding, it is a Katana (I.E. A Sword!)
Somebody should tell WARNER BROTHERS STUDIOS then, 'cause they call it a "Big Stick"! :uhoh:

Justin
April 2, 2003, 01:30 PM
Although, even after all those viewings, you still can't tell me what kind of guns Mouse has just before he gets killed. What kind of movie/gun nut are you? ARGH! I have no idea, and it really bugs me.

While I love the movie, that's also partially because Lafayette only has one broadcast TV channel and you didn't have cable. I seem to recall that the cable TV at your place worked just fine.:neener:

spudspank
April 2, 2003, 03:30 PM
It's all about the money!

Apparently Beretta paid the most to endorse their wares in this movie.

Thats why James Bond drove a BMW (shame on him) for the last few movies until Ford coughed up enough cash to pay the movie maker off and put Bond back in an Astin Martin (Ford owns Astin and Jaguar)

At least get an H&K with a "40 watt range" GEEEZ!

Spuds

CatsDieNow
April 2, 2003, 04:11 PM
ARGH! I have no idea, and it really bugs me.

Manville Gas Gun 12 (http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1400/1466.htm)

:neener:

Skunkabilly
April 2, 2003, 04:13 PM
Does the Rapid-Reloader, Skunkabilly, know you feel this way about Berettas?

Yes, but at least he respects I shoot it well and therefore it stays.

Skunk's Engineering Principles:
1. If it's a stupid idea, but it works, it's not stupid,
2. If you can't fix it with duct tape, don't bother trying to fix it,
3. Carbon fiber enhances performance.

Justin
April 2, 2003, 04:37 PM
Manville Gas Gun 12 Coo.

A little more digging turns up the fact that the Manville is on the ATF list of C&R elligble guns.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec3.htm

Andrew
April 2, 2003, 05:12 PM
Ok i did a little work on the photos, so you can see them better.
In the frist one look under Morpheus left hand, and you can see the guard (Tsuba) of the Katana.

Andrew
April 2, 2003, 05:17 PM
And here is the second.
You dont have to look hard, and you can see the blade of the Katana.

Schuey2002
April 2, 2003, 06:19 PM
So, if I find a Berreta 92 (pick the series) at a gunshow without CF grips that is wrapped in duct tape laying in a box marked "Stupid Stuff!", what should I do??? :confused: .....:what:

twoblink
April 2, 2003, 11:20 PM
Ahh, the Beretta and stupid pistol designs; where do I begin!!

Let's see...

First, you want a bit more weight in the front, as that tapers the recoil a bit. So what does Beretta do? Makes the front the lightest part.

Second, when the slide slams back, the part of the slide that takes the most force is the front. So what does Beretta do? Makes the front the thinnest part. Also, adjustible front sights? Forget it! We make it fixed so you can't have choices, like night sights!

I want a slim gun for easy carry, so Beretta makes the fattest gun.

There is absolutely no balance to the gun, it feels like 95% of the weight is in the magazine..

Oh, and my PERSONAL pet peeve. If I get a dent in the slide, I might get a fail to feed, fail to extract etc... But if I get a dent in the BARREL, I can get a KB! My hands and my face is worth a lot more than "looking cool" (which I don't find the look of the Beretta to be personally). Reliability? So what! The Pinto is reliable, and that's what a Beretta is; a Pinto; it will blow up if you hit it wrong. (i.e. get a dent in the barrel, the bullet cannot pass, the pressure builds up, kaboom!! no more hand!)

Of course, I want to keep the slide as clean as possible so I don't get gunk in the rails; what does Beretta do?? Let's see, we'll open up that barrel and slide, so we can have crud fall in it. That's a great idea :rolleyes:

You know how I approach gun design?? Take a Beretta, and do te opposite!

As far as Skunk; hey, I'm not Sarah Brady; I might hate Beretta's but I will never stop someone from buying one (after I try to sell them on a Steyr!!) and whatever you shoot well, that's what you should buy.

Beretta's are a Brick with a stick on the end of it, it feels numb in my hands, and the accuracy is just combat ok. Reliability? Not bad. Design however, gets a 2% from me. Also, That open slide design is horrible. You are prone to frame cracks in front, and getting crud in, as well as a possible Kb! if you get a dent in the EXPOSED SLIDE... which most manufacturers try to protect.

Tamara
April 3, 2003, 01:19 AM
(i.e. get a dent in the barrel, the bullet cannot pass, the pressure builds up, kaboom!! no more hand!)

"A dent in the barrel"?!?!?

twoblink, you're making yourself look silly here, man; just stop before you ruin your credibility.

You might get a "dent in the barrel" if you accidentally dropped your Beretta in a 3,000 ton/in^2 hydraulic press. :rolleyes:

45R
April 3, 2003, 01:25 AM
TwoBlink
Just get a Sig and your problems will be solved. :)

Razor
April 3, 2003, 01:26 AM
You might get a "dent in the barrel" if you accidentally dropped your Beretta in a 3,000 ton/in^2 hydraulic press.

So, you admit it CAN happen! I think I'll sell the 92FS I've had for 8yrs now...:neener:

GSB
April 3, 2003, 11:51 AM
Dang. After reading this thread I now realize that all those thousands of flawless rounds through my Beretta were just a trick by Beretta to make me think their pistol is well designed.

Boats
April 3, 2003, 02:44 PM
Hey, I know what you mean. I once rapped the side of the slide of my B92 against a door jamb during training and the whole pistol shattered as if dipped in liquid nitrogen for about three years.:D

DontShootMe
April 3, 2003, 08:37 PM
you can d/l them at This Site (http://www.intothematrix.com)

2 down - 2 to go so far...

Mastrogiacomo
April 3, 2003, 10:41 PM
Whatever your gun of choice, I respect it but when I went shopping for a pistol -- for the most part it was all :barf: until I saw the Beretta. The only good looking gun worth my money and damn accurate to boot. Fat grip? I'm a woman with small hands and I can grab a Beretta in any model with ease, but then maybe I'm unique.... Design flaws? I must be doing something wrong, I can't get it to jam and keep hitting the mark consistently. Recoil trouble you? Odd, I'm wicked recoil sensitive and don't seem to notice as I'm working my way through a Winchester box. Oh, forgot to mention, it's one of the safest pistols out there. Wow! Wonder what Beretta is doing wrong? John Woo loves them, Chow Yun Fat uses them, all of Hong Kong favors them, and they're Italian. I guess it boils down to taste. If you prefer a gun without a manual safety, more on the expensive side with better hype -- knock yourself out.

It stinks being from Massachusetts but as long as Berettas on the gun list -- who cares what else is in the shop?:D :D :D

David S
April 3, 2003, 11:29 PM
actually its a Musashi katana made by Paul chen that he is making...............you can find them on Ebay all day for about 500 bucks...............it looks like a stick cause hes holding it by the saya (scabbard)


Neo needs a P99..........

JerryN
April 4, 2003, 12:46 AM
Oh, and my PERSONAL pet peeve. If I get a dent in the slide, I might get a fail to feed, fail to extract etc... But if I get a dent in the BARREL, I can get a KB!

Wow. Has the SAR virus scare cut off the Ritalin supply over there?

If I get a dent in the barrel of my custom built Lawrence Moore 30.06 target rifle, or a dent in the barrel of my Fox Sterlingworth SxS or a dent in the barrel of my 5lb BSA 12ga grouse/skeet gun, heck, they might get a KB! Gee! I never thought of that!

Twoblink... are you employed by a .... GERMAN gun manufacturer by any chance? You arguments againt Berettas are nearly as unfounded as the originating post on this thread!

One other point.... have you ever wondered about the 92FS open slide design? Here's a clue for you... Closed slides HOLD THE DIRT. Open slides let it out....

(Well, maybe not, but its at least as intellectually valid as the anti-Beretta drivel here) :neener:

This is a classic Ford vs Chevy thread. Move along folks... theres nothing to see here.:rolleyes:

Tamara
April 4, 2003, 01:01 AM
Ooh! Ooh! Wait!

I might "get a dent in the barrel" of one of my revolvers!

(Where's the emoticon for rolling on the floor holding my sides from laughing so hard that I cramped up? ;) )

JerryN
April 4, 2003, 01:07 AM
http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_rofl2.gif

Skunkabilly
April 4, 2003, 01:16 AM
:D :D :D
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=208728

JerryN
April 4, 2003, 01:29 AM
Gotta love that Photoshop... :cool:

Skunkabilly
April 4, 2003, 01:31 AM
Total absence of failure drills!

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=208758

Skunkabilly
April 4, 2003, 01:32 AM
I want to be like Skunk!
Beretta? Check.
Carbon fiber grips? Check.
All I need is a CCW! :D :D :D :D :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=208762

Tamara
April 4, 2003, 01:35 AM
twoblink needs a better belt if he's gonna CCW. ;)

Skunkabilly
April 4, 2003, 01:53 AM
USAF B-52s are staging through Hungary, Johnny Cash is covering a Nine Inch Nails tune, Porsche is making an SUV, Tom Glavine is pitching for the Mets, and Smith & Wesson is building a 1911: it's the end of the world as we know it!


Not to mention Twoblink carrying a Beretta!

All your photoshop vengeance are belong to Skunk.... :D

Schuey2002
April 4, 2003, 02:50 AM
Skunk, you need to do a little touch-up around his fingers on the first pic.. :D

Skunkabilly
April 4, 2003, 03:11 AM
Skunk, you need to do a little touch-up around his fingers on the first pic..

Give me a break, I was eating with the other hand!:o

Schuey2002
April 4, 2003, 03:33 AM
I don't ever recall having pyschic powers or abilities.:rolleyes:

Wait! Let me check.....

















Nope! No extraordinary powers have manifested themself. :scrutiny: ....:p :p

Mastrogiacomo
April 4, 2003, 10:57 AM
God!! Those pics look like Jacky Cheung holding a Beretta!:eek: :D I know, I know...who's "Jacky Cheung?" :p

twoblink
April 4, 2003, 01:03 PM
Skunk..

You defile the blinkman... :scrutiny:

You are very lucky, if I was the type to retaliate, I'd post pictures of you with Ruger Mini-14's. :D

Tamara..

I had a guy at my local gun store once, tell me that you can "toss a grock out a helicopter from 30 stories up, and it will land ok, not AD, and you can still pick it up and fire it." Not that I believe the bull, and I wanted to know how he knew this to be true.. But in situations like that, I'd wrecken' the open slide design and the barrel exposure might be a problem if the beretta landed on the exposed barrel. Even if you feel that the beretta barrels are indestructable, I have found no good reason to expose it and weaken the frame. Has Beretta been through the type of torture testing done to HK's and Grocks? I'm just curious..

The open slide design is stupid; the frame is made weaker for no reason. If you look at the common points of breakage on Beretta's, it's mostly the front part of the frame, the weak part; the THIN part..

The open barrel design is just horrible. Comparing it to a revolver is not really correct; if I can protect the barrel, why wouldn't I??

As far as crud getting in there... Do you REALLY think that crud is less likely to get in there with an open slide design??

Tamara
April 4, 2003, 01:15 PM
Stop and think about this for a second: an ordnance steel tube, designed to withstand firing pressures of many tens of thousands of pounds per square inch, is somehow going to "get dented" if you drop it?

You'd better rig something up to protect all that exposed barrel on your M1A, then, if you think that this is a likely scenario.

Look, I'm not even all that big a fan of Berettas; I think that they are amazingly huge packages to serve as a launch platform for 15 rounds of 9mm; but I don't feel the need to cook up some odd amateur gun designer pseudo-engineering reasons why I don't care for them.

They do tend to have nice DA triggers, though; my 96D's is especially sweet.

JerryN
April 4, 2003, 01:33 PM
If you're in a cruddy environment, crud is going to get in your weapon, open or closed design.

Stop and think about it, if crud gets in there, do you REALLY think a closed slide will let it out?

;)

Skunkabilly
April 4, 2003, 02:00 PM
I can connect two out of ten shots on a swinging tennis ball at 50 feet with my Beretta. I can't do that with anything else. I'm not going to argue with the results, so I'll keep it until it breaks, and if it does, I'll just reach in my Camelbak for my spare.

twoblink
April 4, 2003, 02:11 PM
Tamara..

I just plan hate them. There, good enough reason right?

Skunk. Keep it if it shoots well for you.

A beretta is definitely better than throwing rocks :D

Mastrogiacomo
April 4, 2003, 02:49 PM
If you just plain hate them, stick with what you love. I've always suspected the people that diss Beretta don't have much of a reason other than they simply prefer another gun. To be blunt, I feel that way about revolvers, and just about every pistol except H&K, Sig, and Sistema.:cool:

firestar
April 4, 2003, 07:10 PM
Why doesn't he just get a Glock and be done with it? Everybody knows that Glocks are the gun of the future. Yeah right! Glocks are dating fast. Pretty soon Glocks will start drying up and cracking and people will be asking "why is my plastic gunno longer cool"? Whaaa! :neener:

Tamara
April 4, 2003, 08:56 PM
Pretty soon Glocks will start drying up and cracking and people will be asking "why is my plastic gunno longer cool"? Whaaa!

Uh, yeah... When that starts to happen to some of the 4- and 5-digit serial # ones around, I'll let you know. (These things are 18-20 years old and still shooting; including the pebble-grip gun I know that had its recoil-spring tang broken off from being chucked across parking lots and beaten on asphalt and concrete for 15+ years. Go visit Craig's Firearms And Police Supply in Knoxville and ask to see the "original demo Glock" and they'll show it to you. Heck, they may take you out the back door and let you shoot it into the dirt bank behind the shop. It may look like its been run over by a truck [because it has] but it still runs like a top.)

spacemanspiff
April 4, 2003, 09:08 PM
hey, at least twoobles knows true quality. he DOES prefer a Steyr, right? i mean come on, its not like hes trying to get everyone to give up their sissy nickel plated doohickeys and get a tactical polymer handcannon...

:evil:

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