Brass and powder question


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Lupinus
October 6, 2005, 09:18 PM
I have been looking around online trying to get a general idea how much reloading would cost between brass, bullet, primer, and powder. The cost of bullet and primer of course has been easy to figure out, but there are a few question's I have reguarding the brass and the powder.

1- Using 125 Gr. JHP's about how many use's should I get out of the brass if they are cleaned in a tumbler between each loading?

2- Looking at powder's I have no clue how many loading's I will get per pound of powder. Agian using 125 Gr. JHP's, about how many load's should I get per pound of powder?

Both would be for load's in .38 special. Bullet, Brass, and Primer's I plan to use are Winchester. And the powder I am considering going with is Hodgdon Tite group.

Doesn't have to be spacific but knowing a rough idea of how many load's I will get out of the brass and a pound of powder would be a gret help so I can work out the number's.

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308win
October 6, 2005, 09:24 PM
There are 7000 grains in a pound of powder. You do the math.

Brass life depends on the quality of the brass, your loads, and your reloading practices. Get a good set of carbide dies and use a little case lube even though the instructions with the carbide dies say you don't need it and your cases should be good for many reloads. I seldom have to pitch 45acp cases because of splits, etc. but I don't load to +p pressures either.

Lupinus
October 6, 2005, 09:35 PM
thank's win

Lupinus
October 6, 2005, 09:55 PM
Just one thing for clarification....

good for many reload's..

Is that in the neighborhood of 10? 100? 1000? I know no answer can be spacific but if a neighborhood can be given would be most helpful :confused:

The Bushmaster
October 6, 2005, 10:06 PM
Lupinus...Do us all a favor. You have legitimate questions, no doubt. But get a reloading manual or two and read and most of your questions will be answered. If you load light you will get more loadings from the canister of powder and the brass will last longer. If you load hot you will get less loadings from the canister of powder and the cases will not last as long. Grains of powder used per load divided into 7,000 grains to a pound. equals how many loads you will get per canister (one pound of course). Example: 7 grains of a certain powder per round divided into 7,000 grains equals 1000 rounds per pound. (7,000 divided by 7 = 1,000) Where the he** is my division sign on this key board anyway... :banghead:

Rico567
October 6, 2005, 10:08 PM
It can be Hobson's choice. Once-fired 9mm and .40 S&W brass is currently about as cheap as dirt, but it won't last as long as .45 ACP, which is a much lower-pressure cartridge, and will last quite a while. .38 Special target loads are about the same. I have some .45 ACP that have had the headstamp nearly beaten off by being hit by the slide so much, and I'm still shooting them.
I think within any cartridge, though, the actual number of loadings you'll get out of it depends on how hot your load is. My loads were a lot hotter in my 20's and 30's, but I'll never see those ages again, and these days I'd rather do more shooting and shoot milder loads.

Deavis
October 7, 2005, 01:04 AM
As mentioned, use the search function. Try "REloading Cost" or "9mm cost" These will pull up threads with plenty of information to get you started.

caseydog
October 8, 2005, 02:17 AM
Resist the temptation to use nickel plated brass , they crack at the mouth much faster than unplated brass.

Brass life is a function of how you load , don't over expand the mouth , just a hint of flare so the bullet doesn't catch the lip on the way in. Don't over crimp , if you're making target ammo there's no reason to crush the casemouth into the cannelure. 38 brass will develop splits at the case mouth when they get to the end of their useful life , watch for it and cull the split ones. With my loads and reloading style I expect about 20 loads in a 38 case.


Ray

gwalchmai
October 8, 2005, 08:23 AM
Attached is an Excel file that I used to calculate costs and payoff points for reloading. It may help with "what if" questions.

caz223
October 8, 2005, 08:47 AM
If you use, for example 4.4 grains of titegroup, and you bought a pound of it, you should get over 1500 loads out of it. Mathmatically 1590 or so.
Midrange powders are safer because with fast burning powders the case is less than 1/2 full there is a potential for 'double charging' (Or ever triple!!!)the case, blowing your nice shiny gun to smithereens, and your face and hands with it.
Be watchful, because sometimes a 'pound' of powder is 14 ounces. Read the can.
As for .38 spl. brass life, as long as you don't overbell and overcrimp the brass, and keep your loads within standard pressures, you'll lose the cases before they split.

Lupinus
October 8, 2005, 10:58 AM
Thank's guy's you've been most helpful. I fully intend to read manual's but manual's are sometime's....well some of the thing's they say are laughable to people that know first hand what in the heck they are doing.

Unless gun manual's are different then most manual's on the face of the planet lol.

The Bushmaster
October 8, 2005, 11:22 AM
Reloading and gun manuals funny???? I never noticed that....

Deavis
October 9, 2005, 10:59 AM
well some of the thing's they say are laughable to people that know first hand what in the heck they are doing.

I believe you will find that reloading manuals are not laughable in the least. You can pick up one that is 15 years old and it will be filled with a wealth of information and almost negligible bad/laughable advice. Reloading manuals are prepared so that people do not get hurt by following the instructions contained within. You can wax about whether the loads they present are as "powerful" as they can be but there is nothing funny about them. I guarantee you every good reloader (those are the ones who don't have FTF, don't have accuracy issues, and can figure out what went wrong if something happens) here has at least 3 if not more manuals and has read each one.

I'm not a saftey zealot but I respect the fact that I am working with a process that has some risk. Mitigating risk, by reading well prepared commerical reloading manuals, is common sense. You can learn a lot by lurking here, using the search function, and asking some smart questions. You will learn more in one evening with a good manaul than you think.

Lupinus
October 9, 2005, 11:30 AM
I was speaking to manual's in general, not reloading manuals spacificly

Sleeping Dog
October 9, 2005, 11:55 AM
I have reloading manuals from Speer, Vihtavuori, Hodgdon, not a joke in the pile. Sometimes the powder weights differ from book to book, but not by much, and I usually just aim for the middle of the range anyway, not the high end. Most powder and projectile manufactureres have loading data on their web sites so will contain the latest info. The books go more in depth on how-to and history-of, so make good reading.

I downloaded a manual for my S&W 686. Now THAT's funny! I think the tech guys created a four-page manual, then sent it to legal, and it was about forty pages when legal sent it to the printer. There's so mucy CYA junk in there it is laughable. All good stuff, I'm sure, but the volume is too much.

griz
October 9, 2005, 11:57 AM
No, reloading manuals are not the same as those stupid labels on ladders telling you not to dive off of the top step. I hate to phrase it this way, but reloading is too dangerous to warn people about every possible way to screw up. Yes the manual has warnings and will mention safety many times. But 90% of it is instructional or loading data. At least look at a manual before you condem them.

Lupinus
October 9, 2005, 12:10 PM
Ok some clarification

The statement was at manual's in general. Read a lot of manual's on a lot of subject's and a lot is a bunch of usless mumbo jumbo garbage that just is a waste of space.

I wasn't speaking spacificly or reloading manual's. I was not condeming them. And I certianly was not in any way trying to imply they are worthless.

If my wording made it sound that way to you my apologies, but was not my intent.

What was my point is that while manual's are all well and good and for certian subject's (like reloading, dangerous thing's, and trying to put something with five thousand little part's back together after scratching your head for three hour's and finaly giving in) essential. Advice from a human giving different opinion's on the subject on the scale no manual can is equally usfull.

The Bushmaster
October 9, 2005, 12:31 PM
I don't find the manuals that I use in my ocupation to be funny either...In fact I find them quite informitive, not to mention helpful in reminding me of what I may have forgotten over time. In the shop that I reside over if the shop manuals are not fingered printed by the floor mechanics I get a bit bothersome to them. Manuals funny? Again I don't think so.

By the way...Just where do you think most of the information you get on this site came from in the first place. Yes...Some (about 5%) came from experience gained from a manual and put into practical use. Then re-explained in, maybe, a simpler manor.

BluesBear
October 10, 2005, 02:28 AM
:confused: So what you're saying is that you'd prefer to learn shortcuts for a potentially dangerous hobby from a bunch of anonymus forum posters than from a world respected handloading manual? :scrutiny:


In time you'll realize that the better, more knowledgable handloaders are also the ones with the most manuals on their shelves. And you'd also notice that most of those manuals are dogeared and otherwise worn from actually being used.

Lupinus
October 10, 2005, 09:10 AM
Ok more clarification, because frankly, no offence, this is getting annoying now.

I have said several times- I FULLY INTEND TO READ MANUAL's.

I did not say that ALL manual's are stupid, laughable, or contain utterly useless information. I said manual's, and I tried to clarify earlier, sometime's contain information and instruction's that are unnessisary and, in some cases, some GENERAL case's, stupid.

Now if I said something to offend you, my apologies.

If you took offence to my comment's on manual's thinking I ment all, this is my second time clarifying.

Now please, if all you have is a comment about "you have to read the manual's" I get it, I always got it and always fully intended to, all I did was ask a simple question, I never said that once it was answered I was going to run out to the garage and jump on a press. If all you have to say is read the manual's or something similer, don't bother. It has been said plenty of time's. If you want to recomend a manual. Please do, I would be most grateful. But this post has had enough "read the manual's" and "manual's arn't stupid" post's.

The Bushmaster
October 10, 2005, 11:37 AM
Lyman, Speer, Hornady, ABC's of reloading, Lee...Just pick one or two and read...

Deavis
October 10, 2005, 04:14 PM
So what you're saying is that you'd prefer to learn shortcuts for a potentially dangerous hobby from a bunch of anonymus forum posters than from a world respected handloading manual?

Come on Bluesbear, Lyman only has 48 editions out. It isn't like an editor or 5 review the content for accuracy before publication. What do they have over a self-proclaimed anonymous Internet reloading expert?

Lupinus
October 11, 2005, 04:03 PM
So I went to the local library today. Im a litte short on cash but want to start reading and what not so figured I would go see if they had any manual's. Found it on the computer but I had never been in this library so even with that little system, which being it has been a few year's since Ive bene in a library was rusty on to boot, couldn't find it.

So I go to the counter and ask one of the librarian's, here is pretty much how it went (don't remember word for word but you'll get the gist)

Me- Hi Im looking for a book your computer say's you have but I can't seem to find it.
Her- That's fine what's the name of hte book and I'll see if I can find it.
Me- ABC's of reloading
Her- .....Reloading what? :confused:
Me- Oh ammunition, but that isn't part of the title
Her- :what:
Her- Oh well I doubt we have that
Me- Your computer system say's you do

So she type's and had the oh my god this gun nut is gonna shoot me fidget's

Her- Ok....we do have it

So she take's me to where it is and point's it out.

She didn't say anything but she was a bit jumpy.

In a way it was funny, in a way it was sad

308win
October 11, 2005, 06:28 PM
ABS's of Reloading is a good general reference on techniques and practices. As far as the load data itself the online manuals from the powder and bullet mfgs are as good as any. At least now we know that you will have less of a chance of doing something detrimental to your well being. :D

robertbank
October 11, 2005, 07:11 PM
Try ebay for buys on used manuals.

Lyman Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook is particularily good.

After that Hornady, Speer, and a host of others are all good. Just take your time. One word to the wise DON'T load maximum loads until you have loaded and shot several hundred rounds and you feel comfortable with your reloading. Then and only then if you want, work slowly up to any maximum published loads.

Reloading is a great hobby and adds significantly to our shooting sports but if in doubt consider this. You can always buy factory ammo at the store, hands, fingers and eyes are more difficult to find at your local mart.


Stay Safe

Warthogga10
October 11, 2005, 07:32 PM
Lupinus- When you get ready to start tumbling your brass, you will probably have alot of questions like I did concerning what media to use. I came here and someone suggested using Rice and guess what? IT WORKED GREAT!!

I made my own tumbler using a small electric motor with a counter weight attached to the shaft to make it vibrate, mounted it on a 5 gallon bucket and put a 5 qt plastic ice cream container on it (eating the ice cream was the best part) It did a good job BUT, I wanted something better so when someone junked a washing machine, I couldn't resist. I took the agiator out and replaced it with a paddleboard, I also sealed all the drain holes with a lot of pop rivets I had, and filled the tub with 40 pounds of rice. I have the choice of speeds I want to use and it works great. I went out to where I shoot and talked the owner into letting me pick up all the 9mm brass that I can find, and I did 5,000 rounds the other night, so it's about time I bought a progressive press :banghead:

griz
October 11, 2005, 09:29 PM
So what did you think of the book?

BTW, your story reminds me of another library experience. Usually if you reserve a book they call a leave a message that says "the book you reserved, ABCs of reloading, is in and will be held for a week". I reserved parliament of whores, a PJ O'Rourke book about politicians. The message said "the book you reserved, pa...ahhh, is in and will be held for a week". Doesn't take much to amuse me I guess. :)

Lupinus
October 11, 2005, 10:52 PM
there is just something about the way eyes bug out when you know "holy *bleep* im gonna die" run's through thier mind that is amusing in a way

It's the simple thing's....really

And good so far, im only about 30 pages in but so far it seems pretty good.

The Bushmaster
October 12, 2005, 09:34 PM
WHAT??!!!!!?????? :what:

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