Urgent: need to find 45ACP rifle that's legal in California (political need!)


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Jim March
October 7, 2005, 01:00 PM
Folks, can't go into details BUT: I need to know if there is a 45ACP rifle sellable in California.

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hkmp5g17
October 7, 2005, 01:02 PM
How about a converted Mauser? Takes 1911 mags.

Anthony

boofus
October 7, 2005, 01:03 PM
There are .45ACP barrels for single-shot Thompson Contenders.

http://www.eabco.com/images/Thumbhole04.gif

mattw
October 7, 2005, 01:05 PM
winchester 94's are not legal in california?! what is this country coming to?!

kage genin
October 7, 2005, 01:07 PM
Are those 1911 carbine conversions legal in CA? I think they're made by "Mech tec" or something? They require a 1911 lower receiver.

Edited to add:
Here we go
Mech Tech 1911 carbine conversion on Gunbroker (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=38232225)

simon
October 7, 2005, 01:08 PM
Winchester 94's ARE legal in **********.
Jim, Feather ind. makes a .45 ACP carbine.
http://www.featherusa.com/

Jim, were you at the GPRC in LA.?

mattw
October 7, 2005, 01:11 PM
Oops sorry, I was thinking of .45 Long Colt instead of reading 45 ACP... i've been reading up on cowboy action shooting :p

HK USCs are illegall in california, right?

hso
October 7, 2005, 01:11 PM
Ruger Camp Carbine in .45?

Larry Ashcraft
October 7, 2005, 01:12 PM
Beretta CX4 Storm? Are they legal in Kali?

Jim March
October 7, 2005, 01:16 PM
The Feather guns are AR pattern not legal in California. Neither is the Beretta Storm. (Unless Feather or anybody else has one of those silly non-detachable-mag (or pump-action) variants of the AR that are available in 45ACP?

OK, look: if it's semi-auto and has a pistol grip, it's not legal. If it's semi-auto and has a magazine plugged in forward of the triggerguard, it's not legal.

Jeez, what does that leave?

Jim March
October 7, 2005, 01:17 PM
HSO: I think you mean MARLIN "Camp Carbine" and that's not Cali-legal either.

hkmp5g17
October 7, 2005, 01:19 PM
That leaves the Mauser(also smle) perhaps the de lisle and the TC as previously mentioned. Sorry you can't have more out there amigo! :(

Anthony

No_Brakes23
October 7, 2005, 01:20 PM
Someone just posted a picture of a bolt action De Lisle in another thread, let me see if I can find it.

Ahh, here it is:
http://www.valkyriearms.com/sporter.htm

http://www.valkyriearms.com/images/sporter.jpg

Not sure how to tell if it is Cali legal, but I can't see how it isn't.

Gunpacker
October 7, 2005, 01:20 PM
How about Thomson Center Encore. This site
http://www.eabco.com/Cat_Pdf/EAB1421.pdfhttp://www.eabco.com/Cat_Pdf/EAB1421.pdf
shows .45 ACP barrels available on a custom basis, and shows rifle barrel length available.

Jim March
October 7, 2005, 01:32 PM
No_Brakes23: yeah, that's California legal!

Shear_stress
October 7, 2005, 01:34 PM
In California, there was a series of rifle banned by name (such as the MAK-90), and a bunch banned by feature. Still, you can have a detachable magazine center-fire rifle as long it doesn't have a second "feature" (such as a pistol grip, thumbhole stock, bayonet lug, etc.)

The Marlin Camp Carbine, with its "standard" contour rifle stock was and is fully legal in California, as is the Mini-14, Kel-Tec SU-16, Springfield M1A and fixed-mag SKS rifles (sans grenade launcher). You can't get a new Camp Carbine in California anymore because Marlin stopped making them. They are still available used in California, unlike what the state calls "assault weapons".

I believe the 45ACP Camp Carbine has been getting some attention in the Bay Area recently because investigators think a double murder was commited with one.

Gunsnrovers
October 7, 2005, 01:34 PM
The HK USC-45 was PRK legal. I know a friend bought his about 3 years ago. Are they still on the market?

PressCheck
October 7, 2005, 01:36 PM
Marlin Camp .45 carbine. It takes 1911 mags.

Omni04
October 7, 2005, 01:38 PM
political reasons? You aren't going to a clock tower or anything are you? o_O

can you give us any details on what you are doing? People may be able to pose other suggestions.

geekWithA.45
October 7, 2005, 02:51 PM
You aren't going to a clock tower or anything are you?

Silly man.

They outlawed clock and bell towers a generation ago, tore 'em all down.

They cause snipers, you know.

50 Freak
October 7, 2005, 03:34 PM
Silly man.

The outlawed clock and bell towers a generation ago, tore 'em all down.

They cause snipers, you know.

BAN ALL CLOCKS AND BELLS!!!!!!!! BAN ALL CLOCKS AND BELLS!!!!!

It's for the children :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

MudPuppy
October 7, 2005, 04:02 PM
Mr. March, We'd love to hear what you are up to if it is appropriate. If not, keep up the good fight!

No_Brakes23
October 7, 2005, 05:28 PM
Thomson Center You would think that this would be just about one of the least "Evil" firearms out there, but TCs are not Cali approved because the DOJ wants to "Safety test" a certain number of each pistol before it gets approved. Any minor variation means it is a different pistol. That CZ75B, I am looking to get? Can't have it in Stainless, only the polycoat is approved.

You can see how it would not be cost effective to destroy TCs of every caliber, becase they have so many.


We have a bill pending right now to specifically exempt weapons lik the TC, though.

Shear_stress
October 7, 2005, 05:45 PM
Doesn't California certification deal only with Thompson Center pistols, rather than rifles? I believe that's what that pending legislation refers to. The good thing is that it made it through the Califronia legislature and is currently sitting on your governor's desk. They exempt single action revolvers from California certification, so exempting TC pistols seems like a no-brainer.

No_Brakes23
October 7, 2005, 07:41 PM
Oh, and BTW I am guess Mr. March is looking for examples of rifles that fire "Handgun" ammunition to help fight the ammo SerNo bill.

But that is just my guess.

Old Fuff
October 7, 2005, 07:57 PM
Way out in left field ....

Numrich/Gunparts Corporation offers a carbine conversion kit for 1911 style pistols. It is comprised of a 16" barrel and detachable shoulder stock. It could be used in any California-approved full size Colt or clone.

So-called "Buntline Special" single action revolvers with 16" barrels and detachable shoulder stocks.

Check with Ken "Wild Alaska" over at TFL and see if he has sold any .45 ACP lever action conversions into California.

El Rojo
October 7, 2005, 08:04 PM
The HK USC-45 was PRK legal.The USC has a "thumbhole" stock so it is a no.

The mech-tech conversion kits all work on pistols that have a "pistol grip" so they are no good either.

The only thing I can think of is the Camp .45. I don't believe the Ruger PC series is in .45, or that would work. The rifle law has nothing to do with where the magazine is, unless it comes out of a pistol grip in which case it is illegal, but not because of the magazine's placement, but because of the pistol grip.

The Thompsons are out thanks to their pistol grip.

Camp .45 is your best bet. If you want a bolt gun, they make those Mauser conversions. Technically you could probably put a .45 ACP upper (don't they make these?) on your FAB-10, but I don't know how you would make the magazine work.

Gunsnrovers
October 7, 2005, 08:17 PM
Never mind. Re-read the DOJ web page. USC-45 is a no longer OK. Thanks El Rojo.

Gewehr98
October 7, 2005, 08:21 PM
Not the Tommy Gun.

http://www.waffenzimmermann.ch/sites/thompson/thompson_clip_image004.jpg

Librarian
October 7, 2005, 08:54 PM
Marlin Camp Carbines (http://www.aubreyturner.org/armory/index.php?/armory/gun_entry/marlin_camp_carbine/) ought to be legal - no pistol grip or thumb-hole stock, not on the 'named' list.

If it's semi-auto and has a magazine plugged in forward of the triggerguard, it's not legal. That's for pistols - it's one of the reasons the Olympic target pistols needed a specific exemption - it's OK for shoulder weapons, for example, the entirely legal M1A.

thorn726
October 7, 2005, 09:56 PM
what about person to person stuff that was properly registered pre ban?

oh and ps-

BAN ALL CLOCKS AND BELLS!!!!!!!! BAN ALL CLOCKS AND BELLS!!!!!

It's for the children

how ironic is it that Berkeley has one of the last, and tallest (10+ stories? more?)
clock/bell tower

El Rojo
October 8, 2005, 02:19 AM
Sorry Gewehr, I was just talking out loud and making no comments about Thompson Contenders. I was just thinking of .45 ACPs and when you think of .45 ACPs, you have to think of the Thompson. I knew a contender is a single shot break open that takes interchangable barrels. I am a gun dealer after all (A new one and learning). I guess I should have said, AO Thompsons! ;)

Shear_stress
October 8, 2005, 07:11 AM
what about person to person stuff that was properly registered pre ban?

Nope. California makes this nearly impossible. I am not even sure if a parent can will a registered "assault weapon" to his or her children.

kage genin
October 8, 2005, 12:26 PM
Nope. California makes this nearly impossible. I am not even sure if a parent can will a registered "assault weapon" to his or her children.

Nope, you cannot will any registered 'assualt weapon' to your children. <sighs and looks wistfully at dad's registered UZI>

Our only hope is to get the stupid 'assault weapons' ban repealed in CA, or move out of CA and take the 'assault weapons' with you.

TMM
October 8, 2005, 12:39 PM
pack up and get the hell out of dodge...

PressCheck
October 8, 2005, 02:41 PM
HSO: I think you mean MARLIN "Camp Carbine" and that's not Cali-legal either

Yes it is - I bought one about 3 years ago.

KC&97TA
October 8, 2005, 05:24 PM
I saw a Marlin Lever action 45 lc at Big 5 sporting goods in July, thought about buying it, to match up with the Ruger Super Red Hawk 45lc/454. I also saw some kind of 9mm bolt action at Turners, early Aug.

Californians hate the wife and I and our Military Waived "Assult weapons permit". I have an AR-15 Match grade and at X-Mas I'll finish off my M4 clone, thinking of going home to Minnesota and buy 2 more stripped lowers, next spring, just to have a 9mm carbine and a A2 clone kicking around the house. Love the look on the Police Officers faces when that match grade comes out at the shooting range.

The whole bill on serializeing ammo is just plain dumb, for a lack of better words There's how many military installations in CA that surplus ammo will still come off of ? and what about the small ASP I'm currently carrying in my garage ?

Love the weather in Cali, but the fruit cakes are a bit too far to the left for me.

thorn726
October 8, 2005, 05:27 PM
what about person to person stuff that was properly registered pre ban?
what about person to person stuff that was properly registered pre ban?


Nope. California makes this nearly impossible. I am not even sure if a parent can will a registered "assault weapon" to his or her children.

wow! ok off question a little but aren't some banned weapons still sellable if they were regged properly- like the desert eagle for example....

Shear_stress
October 8, 2005, 06:20 PM
but aren't some banned weapons still sellable if they were regged properly- like the desert eagle for example

Getting a little off topic, but still a good quesiton. Anyway, your question depends on how you define banned. The standing "assault weapons" ban only prohibits the transfer of registered asssault weapons (as defined liberally by the state).

On the othe hand, pistols, like the Desert Eagle, need to pass a "safety certification" (read: state-sanctioned extortion) in order to be sold new in California. Note that this does not affect pistols already in the state. If it did, I wouldn't have been able to vacuum up every used 22LR S&W revolver I could afford when I lived there. Heh-heh-heh.

Incidently, the Desert Eagle is certified for sale in California, albeit only in 44 Magnum, and only with a black oxide finish. Remember, though, the certification only pertains to the sale of new guns, so any other Desert Eagles still in the state are totally legal to own and transfer.

Edited to add: see the California Attorney General's website for a list of guns that the state is gracious enough to let you buy new:

http://justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf

Jim March
October 8, 2005, 07:05 PM
Sorry for the delay getting back to y'all.

This was about SB48, which specified penalties to gun shops or anybody else that sold "handgun ammo" to minors. The issue is, how does a gun shop clerk know the ammo is to be used in handguns or rifles?

See also:

http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml?summary=sb48

And yes, it turns out the Marlin Camp Carbine is indeed legal in Cali. My bad for thinking otherwise initially. It's probably the most commonly available 45ACP rifle and it was our "poster child".

Didn't help much. Arnold signed it. Sigh.

Still, it really helps to have all y'all as a resource when a question like this comes down. Your input got fed into the Governor's office.

Spot77
October 8, 2005, 07:33 PM
I can't wait until we have the technology to clone people.

Jim March should be the first and only person cloned......2,000 times over.

Gunpacker
October 8, 2005, 07:44 PM
He will have a hard time finding a lot of support for changing the Constitution to make him President. After his anti gun record, he will have to rely on democrat support. :neener:

Phyphor
October 8, 2005, 08:25 PM
...not even the dems here like that punk. :neener:

karlsgunbunker
October 8, 2005, 08:46 PM
http://www.centuryarms.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=960&osCsid=ed72d73533e92feb6e795d8c6b5a4049

Century Enfield conversion?

No_Brakes23
October 8, 2005, 10:35 PM
Californians hate the wife and I and our Military Waived "Assult weapons permit". I JUST found out about this, and am so upset that I did not take advantage of it while in the military. I was going to buy an AK and AR when I reenlisted, but I held off doing it because I knew I was getting stationed out here.

Jim March
October 9, 2005, 12:35 AM
Trust me on this: the last thing the world needs is 2,000 of ME :eek:.

The food needs alone would be just brutal :neener:.

MudPuppy
October 9, 2005, 08:04 PM
OUCH--so that's what cola in the nostrils feels like. Thanks a lot. :D

Mumbles_45
October 9, 2005, 09:31 PM
Californians hate the wife and I and our Military Waived "Assult weapons permit".

Whats that?

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