"Our Second Amendment rights are in grave danger...."


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Third_Rail
October 7, 2005, 05:15 PM
"....because some NRA supporters like you have not renewed your memberships."


Yeah, and I'm really likely to now. When did the NRA adopt a policy of this kind?

"Now, without your membership support, gun-ban extremists in Congress and in the Senate are aggressively pushing their anti-gun agenda. And they think they have a huge advantage now that you're no longer an NRA member!"

Uh-huh, that's swell and all, but how much did that $30/year actually help? You'd think it was the end of the world that I didn't renew. :rolleyes:

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JohnBT
October 7, 2005, 05:25 PM
You're right, $30 isn't much. A few hundred to NRA and a few hundred more to NRA-ILA would likely help some. :)

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Endowment Member

Third_Rail
October 7, 2005, 06:06 PM
Help them to continue this style of mailer? No thanks.

TheOtherOne
October 7, 2005, 06:30 PM
Help them to continue this style of mailer? No thanks.Have you ever got any other kind from them? I haven't. It's always doomsday stuff. They never send anything about how they are making progress (maybe because they aren't?). All I ever get is letters about how I need to send more money or else more guns will be banned.

Third_Rail
October 7, 2005, 06:34 PM
I never really got anything from them, and the all the sudden I'm bombarded with mailers like this.


All this, after I keep asking "so why aren't you doing anything for MA or CA?"

Cacique500
October 7, 2005, 06:49 PM
All you have to do is call them up and ask to be put on the limited mailing list. It only takes a couple minutes of your time.

I'm a life member (on the limited mailing list) and the only thing I ever get from them is my monthly American Rifleman magazine.

seed
October 7, 2005, 09:29 PM
I always felt that the main reason the NRA is not as powerful as people think it is is because it doesn't play the game right. As much as I hate the industry of lobbying, if you want to play that game, you have to get members from both sides. So long as they give heavily to some politicians and nothing to others, a huge divide will remain. Slowly, but surely they have to win over as many members as possible, while at the same time working to form a smart strategy to appear better in the biased media. Not easy by any means, but this is what they have to do. They could start by not adopting almost all of the extreme right wing agenda as their own. Separate gun issues from others so that there is none of this nonsense of liberal equals anti-self protection (i.e. gun rights). Get rid of this knee-jerk reaction and you have several million less automatic political opponents.

JohnBT
October 7, 2005, 09:42 PM
seed - The most frequent complaint seems to be that the NRA isn't right-wing enough. They catch it from both sides and are still the most effective lobby in D.C. And they are the most effective according to every survey I've seen..

I don't know what to say about MA and CA, or any state for that matter...the NRA can't adopt a state and force them to do anything. State organizations can be highly effective because they can stay on top of local issues.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Endowment Member

seed
October 7, 2005, 09:53 PM
seed - The most frequent complaint seems to be that the NRA isn't right-wing enough. They catch it from both sides and are still the most effective lobby in D.C. And they are the most effective according to every survey I've seen..

I have to respectfully disagree. When it comes to pure effectiveness, the NRA is not even in my top 5 list. Some lobbying groups are so effective that you almost have to admire them, if not marvel at their potency. The huge difference between them and the NRA is that they heavily lobby, pressure and out-right bully all elected officials to the point that politicians would commit political suicide if they go against them. And before someone says that this is true of the NRA, look to the untouchable opponents who heavily oppose them and realize that these same politicians would cease to have a career if they go against some of these other groups.

Again, I hate the process, but if the NRA is going to play the game and in the process protect existing rights and win more, they could stand to learn a thing or two from these other lobby groups.

DeputyVaughn
October 7, 2005, 09:57 PM
I thought I was going to hate this thread. I'm glad I actually agree with the sentiments. I gave up on the NRA in 1996. I finallly figured out that the only thing the NRA is protecting is the NRA. I'll continue to support the Second Amendment through the GOA and by keeping my favorite manufacturers and dealers in business. Thank you very much..........

Scott

yucaipa
October 7, 2005, 10:06 PM
All this, after I keep asking "so why aren't you doing anything for MA or CA?"


Because the Majority of voters in Ma. & Ca. support gun control and vote for anti-gun candidate's.

The people have exactly the government they voted for, the NRA doesn't have the ability to overthrow any State Government. ;)

bjbarron
October 7, 2005, 10:27 PM
Our Second Amendment rights are in grave danger...."
"....because some NRA supporters like you have not renewed your memberships."

Nope, my money goes to the GOA. The NRA lost me years ago with it's "pro-hunter, ignore everyone else, support the AWB as a reasonable compromise" type of program.

No more compromise, not ever. We have to fight tooth and nail for every success...just to have the NRA give up ground for political expediency. They are a political organization, not a gun rights organization. Everything that has been gained in the past few years was done at the grass roots level...with the NRA following along behind taking the credit.

No thanx. I sent them money for 50 years...and when the chips were down they always folded.

Third_Rail
October 7, 2005, 11:26 PM
Just joined the JPFO (2 year membership) and the GOA.

LAR-15
October 7, 2005, 11:36 PM
The NRA has a measly 4 million members.

Just think if every gun owner joined the NRA.

THEN it would be a force.

Basically guns would have been banned in this country if not for the NRA.

That is a fact.

Third_Rail
October 7, 2005, 11:41 PM
Yeah, I'm not so sure of that LAR-15.

karlsgunbunker
October 8, 2005, 12:00 AM
Four Words:

Gun Owners of America!

rick_reno
October 8, 2005, 12:27 AM
The NRA is only as good as you - it's members - make it. If you think that LaPierre and company are capable of reading your minds about what you want - you're wrong. You have to get involved at the local level and drive change from there. It isn't going to change by you coming to this forum and typing in a few hundred characters - it's going to take commitment over time.

TexasRifleman
October 8, 2005, 12:31 AM
Nice. A month after all the confiscation crap in New Orleans and people are bitching about the NRA again.

pro-hunter, ignore everyone else
Yeah, lots of hunters in New Orelans. Worthless NRA didn't fight any there at all did they. Get a clue.

You people make me sick, High Road or not.

Join them all, don't gamble your rights on which group will fight hardest.

Join and participate or shut up.

You are part of the problem or part of the solution, there is no sideline on this one.

xd9fan
October 9, 2005, 01:47 AM
the 80 lb hyperactive chimp(GOA) is good but you still need the 800lb Gorilla(NRA)in the room.

life member of both

confed sailor
October 9, 2005, 02:56 AM
Join and participate or shut up. You are part of the problem or part of the solution, there is no sideline on this one.

Well thats a lovely sentiment. Do you seriously think that LaPierre is working for us? The NRA is to me like labor unions, the little man pays his dues; the bosses play games with the management and nothing ever changes for the better. 30 dollars a year sent to the NRA is 30 less dollars for ammunition. Ammunition that I, quite frankly, use to create more gun owners. To date I have helped 8 people buy a rifle. Thats 8 more votes against the creeping liberal tide, and in the worst case scenario thats 8 new Riflemen on our side.

Dont piss and moan about how we should join this group or that group (NRA, GOA,JPFO, BVD, etc.) If you value your guns, if you value your freedoms, for gods sake dont be stingy about ammo with your shipmates, take them shooting, get them hooked, get them armed. For every shooter you make today, thats one more person who aint voting for the "Demon"crat, and for every Rifleman you make now, thats one more fella who will be in ranks with you if our nation takes a turn for the worse.

Just remember, in 1941 when asked if an invasion of the USA was possible, Adm. Yamamoto replied in the negative "There would be a rifle barrel behind every blade of grass"

Taurus 66
October 9, 2005, 03:58 AM
LOL! You'd better give money to your church and lead a righteous life (of giving again) lest you go to the place of fire and brimstone.

Nevermind the NRA or GOA organizations in America. Neither could ever stop the US/UN's full scale breach of the Second Amendment, and a try at it is coming. I pray for each and every one of the 80 or so million current gun owners that they do the right thing. The right thing here can never be reached amongst a bunch of groveling fat old gray haired "empty suits" in the congress or the USSC (4th def.), living for free at taxpayer expense. And since the Second Amendment is still several months or years behind "Rebuilding New Orleans", "The Right to Abortion", "Gay Marriage", "National Legalization of Marijuana", "Baseball and Steroids use" ..... don't expect much positive movement on this one.

When the US Constitution is finally rewritten, we will still have our guns for awhile longer, and with these weapons, we will have to make moral, life and death decisions (based upon former laws) nobody ever wants to make. Such a day will mark the 2nd civil war.

Lone_Gunman
October 9, 2005, 09:30 AM
As you bash the NRA, please consider the following:

Bill Clinton said the NRA was responsible for the Democratic defeat in the 1994 mid term elections.

Al Gore said the NRA was responsible for his defeat in 2000.

Howard Dean said the NRA was responsible for Kerry's defeat in 2004.

Dianne Feinstein said the NRA was responsible for the sunset of the Assault Weapons Ban.

A majority of states now have "shall issue" CCW laws, thanks to NRA lobbying at the state level.

The NRA obtained a court order to stop illegal gun confiscation in New Orleans following Katrina.

I don't think the NRA is perfect, but we would be a lot worse off without it.

JohnBT
October 9, 2005, 10:01 AM
Now, now, no fair using facts. ;)

Re: "Do you seriously think that LaPierre is working for us?"
Yes, as are quite a few other people both within the NRA and with other groups.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Endowment Member

Border
October 9, 2005, 11:21 AM
So you stop supporting a powerful and effective pro-gun lobby because you don't like their rhetoric and don't agree with every tactic and position they take. Shrewd! The anti-gun crowd would love to see us all drop the NRA and support little splinter groups that can't even get a return phone call from a congressman or the media to show up for a press release!

Lone_Gunman
October 9, 2005, 11:24 AM
I have a theory that most people who say the NRA does nothing are simply trying to rationalize the fact that they never donate money or time to the cause of defending the 2nd Amendment.

Its much easier to feel good about doing nothing if you can convince your self that the NRA does nothing.

Ask Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Feinstein, and Schumer if they think the NRA does nothing.

confed sailor
October 9, 2005, 12:59 PM
well damn, silly me.

and i thought the most effective way to protect the second amendment and preserve our gun rights was to create more and more responsible gun owners who will not allow their newfound (in their eyes) right to dissapear.

of course the "Demon"crats are going to blame the NRA, they want to use that to motivate their own power block. and thats were we need to hit them. by pulling all the fence sitters over to our side, weakening their own resolve as we show them responsibly we are armed and safe. By throwing every charge back in their faces with our actions, not our words

most importantly we have this, thehighroad, it allows us to connect. remember the committees of correspondence, their letter writing allowed the patriots to coordinate against british oppression.

and lastly it doesnt matter if we dont have the men, so take someone shooting today.

Third_Rail
October 9, 2005, 01:16 PM
What the heck... $30 isn't that much, is it? I re-subscribed.


No harm in joining all of them. Including GOAL (for MA).

torpid
October 9, 2005, 02:51 PM
All this, after I keep asking "so why aren't you doing anything for MA or CA?"



Because the Majority of voters in Ma. & Ca. support gun control and vote for anti-gun candidate's.

The people have exactly the government they voted for, the NRA doesn't have the ability to overthrow any State Government. ;)

So then why do we need an NRA at all according to that logic?

We'll just let the majority of voters vote their pro/anti-gun beliefs and let the chips fall where they may. Anti-gun states are lost causes, and pro-gun states don't need NRA help.

If the NRA only serves to sway only those states with razor-thin margins where the vote could go either way, then they certainly don't need vast amounts of money from residents of other states (including MA and CA).

:rolleyes:

jnojr
October 9, 2005, 07:15 PM
Like it or not, the NRA is the Second Amendment lobby in Washington. And they weild huge influence at the state levels, too.

My father was a good friend of a prior California State Senator, Bill Craven. Senator Craven told him one time about how, during an election cycle, and NRA lobbyist visited him and told him "You're going to vote this way on this bill, or we'll donate $100,000 to your opponent in the next election" (I assume they meant primary, as Mr. Craven was a Republican, and I doubt they would have supported a Democrat! :) )

The NRA is far from perfect. I have no doubt that they choose their battles carefully to retain as much of a "winning track record" as possible. But when they throw their weight behind an issue, things happen.

I will keep supporting the NRA. I will also support CRPA (as nearly worthless as they are), GOA, GOC, and CCRKBA/SAF. I tend to send my "extra" money (over and above membership dues) mainly to whichever looks like they're doing the most for me here in California. So far, that has been CCRKBA, because of Jim March (I wonder if they've replaced him?).

txgho1911
October 9, 2005, 09:55 PM
Should the library include links to the diferent areas of the NRA and other orgs like GOA?

Border
October 9, 2005, 10:17 PM
Way to go Third Rail!

Anyone catch "Nightline" a month or so back? It was on the bill that would prevent the gun manufacturers from being sued that we won on. Ted Koppel and the Democratic sponsor of the bill (whose name escapes me) both credited the NRA in a BIG way for the passage of this pro-gun(manufacturers) bill through the Senate!

The show went on to talk about the NRA being "on the ropes" a few years back but "has since doubled it's membership!" Everyone on the show from both sides, including independent analysts, spoke of the NRA as being a HUGE influence on Capital Hill!

I send the NRA more than the membership fees so I get even more mail-if you don't want it you can be dropped from their mailing lists-but not joining the NRA if you care about gun rights is indefensible in my opinion!

Border
October 9, 2005, 10:19 PM
The NRA is also taking on PETA, a multi-million dollar organization. You NEED a multi-million organization to counterattack at that level!

bakert
October 9, 2005, 11:00 PM
Like a few have noted, the NRA aint perfect but in my book it's still the best thing going for gun owners. I'm sure as hell not drpping my membership just because I disagree with certain things. That's the attitude the antis love!! P&M all you want to but leave my NRA alone. :banghead:

Moparmike
October 10, 2005, 01:44 AM
I was in a financial bind for a while, but I just re-upped for 3 years.


I do wonder how I can get my voice heard more through the organization though. I would hate to think its like writing to my congresscritters; a mark on a tally board and a canned response telling me what I already know and that they dont give a damn about what I think in their usual polite manner. :banghead:

oct_97
October 10, 2005, 01:03 PM
Lone_Gunman
Senior Member



Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: lost in the south
Posts: 3,242 I have a theory that most people who say the NRA does nothing are simply trying to rationalize the fact that they never donate money or time to the cause of defending the 2nd Amendment.

Its much easier to feel good about doing nothing if you can convince your self that the NRA does nothing.

Ask Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Feinstein, and Schumer if they think the NRA does nothing.
__________________
NRA Life Member


+1

TheEgg
October 10, 2005, 01:47 PM
When it comes to pure effectiveness, the NRA is not even in my top 5 list.

Then your list is not based on facts.

The NRA is not perfect. Nothing is. But it is the big dog right now on RKBA.

Camp David
October 10, 2005, 01:56 PM
"....because some NRA supporters like you have not renewed your memberships."

At risk to being kicked off this board, let me state publicly that our gun rights are defended by other organizations other than the NRA and the NRA has a LONG WAY TO Go before it can function as the primary gun defense organization for Americans...=>

A short story... a few years ago I was stopped in D.C. on an unrelated traffic offense... the police found a unregistered handgun in truck... I was subject to a year in jail for said offense, which was bargained down to a lesser punishment and my gun was confiscated.... Despite being a long-term member of the NRA, you want to know how much they helped my case? Zero... Zippo...Nadda... Nothing... despite numerous requests, I found that the NRA does not involve itself in private gun cases....

After this event I still support the NRA but do so with reluctance. The NRA's effort is primarily geared to larger efforts and single members better find another advocacy group if they feel they need it and the NRA is not it.

yucaipa
October 10, 2005, 02:53 PM
So then why do we need an NRA at all according to that logic?

The logic was that it's not the NRA's fault that Ca. & Ma have anti-gun laws, if you don't want to join the most effective pro-gun lobby in the country then don't, that's your choice.

Some of us haven't given up and don't need to explain our misguided logic for quiting and giving up, then blaming it on the NRA. I will continue to fight for the RKBA just like I have for 30 years, My life membership in the NRA is one of the tools I will continue to use. Sara Brady's fifth column can come on gun boards and tell to quit the NRA,the NRA is no good until hell freezes over and I will continue to say NO !

SteveS
October 11, 2005, 02:10 PM
At risk to being kicked off this board, let me state publicly that our gun rights are defended by other organizations other than the NRA and the NRA has a LONG WAY TO Go before it can function as the primary gun defense organization for Americans...=>


A short story... a few years ago I was stopped in D.C. on an unrelated traffic offense... the police found a unregistered handgun in truck... I was subject to a year in jail for said offense, which was bargained down to a lesser punishment and my gun was confiscated.... Despite being a long-term member of the NRA, you want to know how much they helped my case? Zero... Zippo...Nadda... Nothing... despite numerous requests, I found that the NRA does not involve itself in private gun cases....

Out of curiosity, what did the other groups do in your defense?

Camp David
October 11, 2005, 02:18 PM
Out of curiosity, what did the other groups do in your defense?

To be honest, I only belonged to the NRA at the time... I have since joined a myriad of other shooting sports groups for a variety of reasons but I expect help from none if the situation ever re-arises... Your question, though, is rooted in false justification. At the time of my arrest, I thought the NRA was genuinely interested in its membership base; this was wrong on several levels. Beyond giving you a membership card and a token NRA-emblazened hat, NRA membership denotes little. Further, NRA membership gives you no legal standing in our Courts of Law. The fact that the District of Columbia's prohibition on firearms might make it a target for the NRA, but those that fall under the District of Columbia's laws thereto stand liitle or no chance being defended by the NRA: my case was a prime example.

The NRA is simply an advocacy group. While I support their overall mission, I have little regard for their management as I believe they have forgotten the hand that feeds them.

SteveS
October 11, 2005, 02:38 PM
Your question, though, is rooted in false justification. At the time of my arrest, I thought the NRA was genuinely interested in its membership base; this was wrong on several levels. Beyond giving you a membership card and a token NRA-emblazened hat, NRA membership denotes little.

My question, though somewhat smart-assed was based on what I consider unrealistic expectations. The NRA doesn't promise to come to the legal defense of all of it's members. To be fair, they do get involved in some litigation that involves the rights of citizens.

I am suggesting that, even though your case may have had merit, it is not resonable to expect them to come to your defense. If you want that, you are better off with some kind of pre-paid legal service.

FeebMaster
October 11, 2005, 04:13 PM
At risk to being kicked off this board, let me state publicly that our gun rights are defended by other organizations other than the NRA and the NRA has a LONG WAY TO Go before it can function as the primary gun defense organization for Americans...=>

A short story... a few years ago I was stopped in D.C. on an unrelated traffic offense... the police found a unregistered handgun in truck... I was subject to a year in jail for said offense, which was bargained down to a lesser punishment and my gun was confiscated.... Despite being a long-term member of the NRA, you want to know how much they helped my case? Zero... Zippo...Nadda... Nothing... despite numerous requests, I found that the NRA does not involve itself in private gun cases....

After this event I still support the NRA but do so with reluctance. The NRA's effort is primarily geared to larger efforts and single members better find another advocacy group if they feel they need it and the NRA is not it.

What did you expect? Did you think they were kidding all those times they called for enforcing the gun laws we have?

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