How long before Gun Scrubber Causes Cancer?


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marklbucla
October 8, 2005, 01:10 AM
How much exposure does it take for Gunscrubber to cause cancer? If I've cleaned about 3 guns, three times in fair to poorly ventilated areas, should I be worried? Or does it take prolonged exposure for anything to happen?

No matter what, I think I'm just going to put up with the inconvenience of spraying them at the range and finishing up at home. I'm one of those people that will only clean a gun when it stops functioning properly.

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dsk
October 8, 2005, 01:17 AM
Compare it to smoking cigarettes. One puff ain't goinna kill you, but two packs a day, every day for 20 years probably will. When using any solvent use it with plenty of adequate ventilation (i.e., open the garage door or a window and turn on a fan), and if you can put on rubber gloves and a respirator so much the better. I exposed myself to solvents while cleaning guns and automobile parts for years as a stupid teenager and young adult, but in hindsight I know I should have protected myself better. But no matter what you've been doing to yourself, it's never too late to stop being careless and to start using a little common sense.

Gordy Wesen
October 8, 2005, 01:20 AM
My friend got bone cancer from using Gun Scrubber once.
Oh boy, was it worth it?

c_yeager
October 8, 2005, 01:31 AM
You could live out your entire life in a sterile dome breathing filtered oxygen and still die of cancer.

With that in mind, the answer is.... once.

The answere also doesnt matter. Just try to minimize your risk (and using gun scrubber in a poorly ventilated space isnt a good idea) and let the chips fall where they will. You can also worry about neurological damage from your exposure while your at it, if you want to.

Taurus 66
October 8, 2005, 02:11 AM
The development of cancer has to do with a lot more than just exposure to a chemical, either short or long-term. Consider also your genetics, daily nutritional intake, and immunological strength.

Cigarettes contain trace levels of carcinogenic compounds, but so do almonds, peanuts, & walnuts. Then again, these nuts contain small levels of cyanide, which turns out to be a powerful antioxidant. Unfiltered tap water is not as clean as it looks. There are several impurities within - arsenic, cadmium, & mercury just to name three. How come nobody here is asking what their maximum safe level of exposure should be to tap water? Tuna fish is supposed to be considered "heart healthy" because of the omega-3. Tuna fish conatins mercury ... go figure.

Quinch
October 8, 2005, 02:13 AM
As much exposure as brake cleaner! :D

Gannet
October 8, 2005, 06:53 AM
Compare it to smoking cigarettes. One puff ain't goinna kill you, but two packs a day, every day for 20 years probably will.
Even heavy smokers only have about a 10% chance of developing fatal health problems from it, so actually it probably won't.

More biased hysteria from the media and scientists.

You know, just like guns.

To the original poster: the development of cancer is highly genetically linked. Even for those with a genetic predisposiiton, the odds are quite low. Note how the scare statistics are always presented as xx times more risk of cancer:, never "xx risk of cancer". That's because if they showed you the true overall risk numbers you wouldn't pay so much attention. Again, it's *exactly* like what they do with guns: "having a gun in the house increases the risk of [insert extremely unlikely scare scenario here] xx times". Nevermind that it's still much less than the risk from auto accidents, bathtubs, or hospitals for that matter.

Use some common sense and convenient precautions, and don't sweat it.

imas
October 8, 2005, 08:11 AM
3 years 26 days

Quit using it at 25 and you'll be fine. ;)

Chawbaccer
October 8, 2005, 09:56 AM
Gordy Wesen said: "My friend got bone cancer from using Gun Scrubber once."

I'm curious as the dickens as to how they figgered out exactly what gave him cancer, and he only used it once?

I've spent over thirty years working with solvents- benzene(no more tho) and naptha compounds, also I smoked plenty of cigarrettes, I was at three packs a day when I quit about ten years ago.
I think ists pretty much what a fellas luck is as much as to what he's exposed to.

afasano
October 8, 2005, 10:42 AM
Don't eat it. :D

One of Many
October 8, 2005, 12:24 PM
Use common sense and plenty of ventilation when working with any solvent.

I have asthma and severe allergies as a result of working with industrial solvents on the job, for approximately one year. That was about 30 years ago. The damage is irreversible, and treatment for the medical conditions caused by the chemical exposure are expensive, as well as being a nuisance (but necessary). My immune system was really messed up, but I did not develop cancer (yet).

Gun Scrubber and some other solvents are highly volatile, so they are easily inhaled; they should only be used in open areas where the vapors can dissipate rapidly. Other solvents stay in a liquid form and are less likely to be inhaled, but may be absorbed through contact with the skin and mucous membranes. It is a good idea to use any solvent in well ventilated areas while wearing protective gloves.

I suggest only using Gun Scrubber (and similar volatile agents) when a complete degreasing is required (like re-bluing a gun). Typical gun cleaning does not require that harsh a substance to remove powder/primer contaminates, and rust can be prevented by using oils/preservatives and removing fingerprints from metal surfaces. I typically use a powder remover and/or copper remover to clean the gun, and use a silicone rag to wipe off all fingerprints before storing the gun.

Do not store guns in leather holsters (it will cause rust spots to form - even in stainless steel).

HighVelocity
October 8, 2005, 12:27 PM
Using any chemical solvent in a poorly ventilated area is a bad idea. Why expose yourself to unnecessary risks?

marklbucla
October 8, 2005, 12:42 PM
I'm in a dense apartment area. Even though the area is rather Hunter friendly, I don't think it'd be a good idea to advertise.

athlon64
October 8, 2005, 12:57 PM
Disassemble the gun, put the parts in a brown paper bag or some generic looking container, and scrub them outside individually. Also helps if you do it at night. To most folks, it'll just look like your working on a home hobby project or cleaning car parts. Or you can set up a powerful window fan pulling air out of the room your scrubbing in to keep clean air in the room.

Lupinus
October 8, 2005, 01:01 PM
Whenever using any cleaner or anything in general that put's off fume's be well vented or use a resperator.

I was doing a pumbing job once with CPVC in a tight space that took quite a bit of joint's and using the cleaner and cement for it and like a dummy didn't wear at least one of those flimsey paper mask and breathed in a chit load of the vapor's.

Aside from feeling pretty good for a few hour's.......when I did stop seeing the pretty colors I couldn't breath right for liek a week and felt like someone poored superglue in my lung's.

Yep.....alway's ventalate or resperate lol

EDIT- No, like the stubern hard head I am I didn't go to a Dr. I make mule's look copertive :evil: :fire: :evil:

Car Knocker
October 8, 2005, 01:17 PM
Lupinus,

Well, for what it's worth, that flimsy paper dust mask wouldn't have done you any good. You would have had to use a properly fitted cartridge-type mask with the correct cartridges for the solvent used.

Chewbacca,

I took Gordy's comment as being a somewhat tongue-in-cheek answer to a question that is unanswerable due to the variables involved.

Justin
October 8, 2005, 02:17 PM
Question along the same lines:

Is it a reasonable precaution to wear rubber or latex gloves when cleaning a firearm so as to minimized exposure to the nastiness?

Gordy Wesen
October 8, 2005, 02:36 PM
Uh oh, I was joking.

Car Knocker
October 8, 2005, 02:54 PM
Justin,

It certainly doesn't hurt and you wouldn't have to deal with scrubbing carbon particle out of skin pores and from under fingernails. I have to admit to using a lot of caution when dealing with chemicals.

Chawbaccer
October 8, 2005, 03:11 PM
I was just being a smart a--

Commissar Gribb
October 8, 2005, 03:17 PM
My friend got bone cancer from using Gun Scrubber once.
Oh boy, was it worth it?

I got lung cancer and died! I'll never use that stuff again!

Lupinus
October 8, 2005, 04:14 PM
Well, for what it's worth, that flimsy paper dust mask wouldn't have done you any good
Probably not but it would have been better then nothing lol. Those fume's are nasty.

hso
October 8, 2005, 05:21 PM
Why do you think Gun Scrubber will give you cancer?

Latex gloves are a waste of money for any solvent use. Use nitrile or butyl rubber.

Any mask that is not rated for volatile solvents is less than useless because it gives you a false sense of safety. Handle gun cleaning compounds outside or with some sort of exhaust pulling air around you and out of the space you're in.

Standing Wolf
October 8, 2005, 05:44 PM
It's not a sport if it can't kill you.

KriegHund
October 8, 2005, 06:04 PM
naptha compounds, also I smoked plenty of cigarrettes,

Hopefully not at the same time?

Ide say go outside and use a small fan to blow the fumes away and you will porbably be just dandy.

Heck, i drink about a liter of tap water a day, i think thatll give me cancer before anything else does. Oh well, at least the tapwater here isnt as bad as some other places.

Hey, whats that hard lump on my nut? Oh crap... :neener:

marklbucla
October 8, 2005, 07:07 PM
Why do you think Gun Scrubber will give you cancer?

I read the can.

Lupinus
October 8, 2005, 08:47 PM
that little lump is called your d....nah never mind I'll be nice and leave you to your little lump

Taurus 66
October 8, 2005, 09:52 PM
Why do you think Gun Scrubber will give you cancer?

Reply

I read the can.

Please tell us what's in Gun Scrubber that's considered carcinogenic. I will conduct a research on these chemicals beginning with MSDS.

My friend got bone cancer from using Gun Scrubber once.

Bone seeking elements! Are you aware of "strontium-90"?
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclides/strontium.htm

Do you know about "americium-241"? It's in just about every smoke detector world-wide.
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclides/americium.htm

I haven't heard of any such elements in gun cleaning/lubricating solvents.

Telperion
October 8, 2005, 10:25 PM
Gunscrubber is nonchlorinated brake cleaner, so it is some formulation of acetone, toluene, various heptanes, and methanol. Lovely, but not carcinogenic. I wouldn't use it anywhere other than outdoors, and I always wear rubber gloves when using it.

Sam
October 8, 2005, 10:47 PM
I am sure that sooner rather than later "the State of Californis has determined that this product contains ingrediants than have been found to cause cancer' will soon appear on the label.

use caution with any chemical but remember that when they test on tose lab rats they use extremely high doses of the stuff and use rats that are suceptable to cancer anyway. Anyone remember the cyclamate scare in diet soda. The dose given to those lab rats was the same you would get from drinking like 250 cans a day for 10 years. Take care but take it all with a grain of salt.

Sam

Khornet
October 8, 2005, 10:53 PM
Relax. As other posters have already pointed out, cancer doesn't arise from just one cause. It's a combination of factors, some of which you are born with and some of which come from exposures. Multiple factors need to be in place for cancer to develop, which is why most smokers will never develop cancer. Don't obsess over exposure to cleaning sovents. Don't drink it or slather yourself with it, but otherwise, don't worry. I wear gloves when they're handy, but just so I don't get stained hands. You're more likely to die from something completely unexpected than from cleaning guns.

Like, maybe, from NOT having cleaned your gun, for example.

marklbucla
October 9, 2005, 12:29 AM
I only saw something that said that it contains "Chlorinated Solvents." It doesn't get any more specific than that. Underneath that, it says that it's known by the state of California that it causes cancer.

Darth Ruger
October 9, 2005, 02:12 AM
I'm one of those people that will only clean a gun when it stops functioning properly.I hope you don't carry.

Lex
October 9, 2005, 07:35 AM
The main hazardous chemical in Gun Scrubber is Trichlorethylene (TCE).

Here is a statement from some web research on TCE listing it as a probable human carcinogen:

trichlorethylene (TCE)... is only a probable human carcinogen: tests have been made on animals, but no human-based data have tied it to cancer. [Emphasis added.]

I work with PCE (perc) and it has the same listings with EPA..probable.

Mind your exposure to solvents with good nitrile gloves, lots of fresh-air exchange, etc. and all should be OK.
Unless you clean guns for a living (all day, everyday), you should be OK!


Lex in NC

P12
October 9, 2005, 07:53 AM
Do you know what the leading cause of cancer in laboratory animals is?












































Scientists

Darth Ruger
October 9, 2005, 11:14 AM
I am sure that sooner rather than later "the State of California has determined that this product contains ingredients that have been found to cause cancer" will soon appear on the label.
Underneath that, it says that it's known by the state of California that it causes cancer.
LOL! :D

entropy
October 10, 2005, 02:17 AM
How long before Gun Scrubber Causes Cancer?

Obviously, a long while, or I'd be dead already. I use it quite frequently, particlarly this time of year. ;)

brickeyee
October 10, 2005, 11:42 AM
The trichloroethylene is a replacement for Trichloroethane. Trichloroethane is actually safer for human exposure but may damage the ozone layer.
The exposure levels for trichloroethylene are much lower.
Use the stuff outdoors and only when you really need a degreaser.

Carl N. Brown
October 10, 2005, 12:07 PM
I have used Gun Scrubber twice: a 40-year old really neglected
.25 Colt Junior and a heavily Cosmolined CZ vz52 and only
because I did not want to detail strip and clean each part by
hand. And I had windows open on both sides of the apartment
and an exhaust fan going.

I don't even recommend using WD40 indoors without adequate
ventilation. But I keep a can of Gun Scrubber on hand IF NEEDED.

Trichloroethylene replaced Trichloroethane because Trichloroethylene
is safer for the Ozone Layer while Trichloroethane is safer for humans.
Gosh, I feel so protected.

Danger: Dihydrogen oxide kills more people than guns each year,
the leading cause asphyxiation death in America! Yet dihydrogen
oxide is RECOMMENDED for cleaning muzzleoaders, even indoors.
It is only a matter of time before the People's Republique of
Kalifornya declares dihydrogen oxide a carcinogen. Until then
we are just unprotected from this menace!

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