(IL) Gangs bringing out the big guns


PDA






Drizzt
October 8, 2005, 03:46 AM
Gangs bringing out the big guns

Thursday, October 6, 2005

By Michael Drakulich, The Star

A gang or drug dispute brought out some heavy weaponry during a shooting in Chicago Heights on Saturday morning.

The targets were two houses in the 1500 block of Portland Avenue, one of which police referred to as a common hangout for gang members and drug dealers.

A 27-year-old Chicago Heights man was rushed to surgery after being shot twice in the chest and once in the shoulder around 9:30 a.m.

A report on the man's condition was not available Wednesday morning from St. James Hospital in Olympia Fields.

Police and some residents are voicing concerns about the weapons used in the shooting including a .30-caliber weapon, similar to the Russian-made AK-47.

The AK-47 is a fully automatic military assault rifle used by the Soviet military during the Cold War.

After recovering several shell casings at the scene, police confirmed a large-caliber weapon similar to the AK-47 was used.

One resident said he witnessed the shooting and the use of large-caliber weapons.

Looking out his window after hearing a disturbance, the man said he saw one man armed with an Uzi submachine gun, another with an AK-47 and other men with other types of guns.

He asked if there were any ways to get the owners out of the problem house not only because of the adults in the neighborhood that are in danger, but the children as well.

Deputy Police Chief Michael Camilli said one of the houses targeted in the shooting has been a consistent problem for several years and code enforcement will step in.

Code enforcement has cited the owners on several violations. The owners have five days to correct the problems or they will have to leave until the house is brought back up to code.

Camilli also is asking for residents' help in reporting crime. He said residents do not have to give their names when they call.

Camilli said Chicago Heights police have partnered with the FBI, Cook County Sheriff's Police, Cook County State's Attorney, the U. S. Attorney's office and the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency to combat gang and drug-related crimes in the city.

Camilli said because of the partnering, police were able to arrest and charge three juveniles in the shooting death last week in the 100 block of West 16th Place.

U.S. Marshals also have assisted in identifying a suspect in a shooting death of a Ford Heights woman Sept. 22, which occurred in the 1400 block of Green Street, Camilli said.

Michael Drakulich may be reached at mdrakulich@starnewspapers.com or (708) 802-8841.

http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spnews/news/06-sp1.htm

you can tell from spent casings that the weapons was an AK-47?

If you enjoyed reading about "(IL) Gangs bringing out the big guns" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jeff-10
October 8, 2005, 04:00 AM
Police and some residents are voicing concerns about the weapons used in the shooting including a .30-caliber weapon, similar to the Russian-made AK-47.

Probably an SKS.

The AK-47 is a fully automatic military assault rifle used by the Soviet military during the Cold War.

Nice blurb to make it seem like it is a full auto weapon.

Shear_stress
October 8, 2005, 07:16 AM
Man, if a .30 cal AK-47 is a "large caliber weapon", my .355 cal pistol must be a hand cannon!

blume357@bellsouth.net
October 8, 2005, 07:46 AM
When did 30 cal. and Ak's become large caliber? Just shows, again, the folks writing the news don't have a clue. Up until the m-16 almost all military type rifles for the past century were 30 cal.

I remember seeing a blurb a year or two back on TV about the evils of gun shows and how you could buy a ' AK-47 machine gun at one of these shows just like this one' only problem was the reporter was holding a SKS.

El Tejon
October 8, 2005, 09:53 AM
blume, it's Chicago. Everything is large caliber as everything is illegal.

Did you notice that the article was free of references to Chicago's and Illinois gun laws? About how AKs and Uzis are illegal in Chicago and Cook County?

Not fair! The gangs (and politicians) aren't obeying the law! :evil:

Remington788
October 8, 2005, 10:50 AM
Great, more ammunition for Blojobovich to push a gun ban. :banghead:

Tokugawa
October 8, 2005, 11:59 AM
I just love the part about "code officials" - so they have gang shootings, dope sales etc, and the best the gov. can do is cite them for "code violations"? They may be going after the owner of the property(probably not the gang) to evict them. I love it. I just love it. They are really fond of misdirecting responsibility- passing laws that require landlords to be responible for tenants behavior. So the cops can't do anything about gangs, drugs, shootings, but somehow the landlord has to evict these creeps? If a swat team can't deal with them, I don't think a landlord is going to have much success serving an eviction notice. I sure wouldn't want to be the one handing them the notice.

444
October 8, 2005, 12:01 PM
I can't resist pointing out that this guy was shot twice in the chest and once in the shoulder and was still alive at the time of this article. This isn't unusual. It happens all the time. But some people in the gun community can't seem to understand that there is no magic sword.

This sheds some light on some of the most popular topics on this board that are debated endlessly.

Navy joe
October 8, 2005, 12:07 PM
These news reports are kind of a letdown, I was expecting to read that some of the bangers had aquired the knowledge of a pack howitzer, or had mounted an illegal .50 on an Escalade. At least an RPG. Big guns? What a letdown. :confused:

geekWithA.45
October 8, 2005, 12:08 PM
The AWB passed partly as a gang disarmament measure, as that's where a lot of the fear mongering was centered.

Don't be surprised if the press starts playing up these stories now that the AWB has expired.

Don Gwinn
October 8, 2005, 12:24 PM
The eyewitness claims to have seen AK47s and Uzis, which could mean anything from SKS, to any chunky rifle with light-blond wooden stocks. The Uzis could be anything from Uzis to Tec-9's to . . . well, too many to describe.

There is supposedly a distinctive dent left in shells ejected by AK47 actions, though, isn't there?

KaceCoyote
October 8, 2005, 01:08 PM
Sometimes there is, sometimes there isnt. Most wolf stuff is loaded so light that it doesnt dent the case, them steel cases dont hurt either. Winchester white box or some of the newer bear stuff will though, the AK ejector is just a huge hook the spent case is rammed into at full speed..

blume357@bellsouth.net
October 8, 2005, 01:19 PM
If he was shot twice in the chest and lived I bet it was full metal jacket stuff. Back when those two nut jobs in California Robbed that bank, the press talked about how many folks were shot...but never pointed out how in the world the only two people that died were the two robbers. the two duffuses were shooting full metal jackets all over the place... After the La Pd finally figured out what was going on some cops got smart. 12gage to face will stop anyone even with a bullet proof vest.

KC&97TA
October 8, 2005, 01:22 PM
a RPK is very similar to an AK-47, it has a caseing slightly longer than the .308, I can't remember the metric size. The USSR made it that way on purpose, kind of like the 9x23, obviously thier ammo won't fit in to our weapons, but our ammo will fit into thier weapons.

I was hopeing for some kind of belt fed machine gun, like a M60 or M249 SAW. A fire fight, just isn't a fire fight, w/o a belt fed weapon :neener:

Kurush
October 8, 2005, 01:50 PM
[deleted the stuff about cartridges, I had a case of contagious confusion]

Anyhow back on topic it seems to me that gangs start using rifles when they believe they're in control rather than the police. Look at Al Capone, the Barrow Gang, "Pretty Boy" Floyd, Compton around 1990, etc. If the thugs are bringing out big guns it's because they aren't worried about being stopped by the police.

carebear
October 8, 2005, 03:01 PM
And speaking of the AWB being a "disarmament of gangs" measure, so was the original, true assault weapon ban in '33.

'68 was about "crime control".

Justin
October 8, 2005, 03:12 PM
The gangs (and politicians) aren't obeying the law! El Tejon, methinks you're being redundant. ;)

Texfire
October 8, 2005, 04:06 PM
If he was shot twice in the chest and lived I bet it was full metal jacket stuff. Back when those two nut jobs in California Robbed that bank, the press talked about how many folks were shot...but never pointed out how in the world the only two people that died were the two robbers. the two duffuses were shooting full metal jackets all over the place... After the La Pd finally figured out what was going on some cops got smart. 12gage to face will stop anyone even with a bullet proof vest.

Actually one of the robbers took his own life with a pistol after his last rifle jammed, and the other one was shot some 27 times by SWAT after he left the scene. Even though some of the local officers eventually went to a local gun store to borrow some rifles that would hopefully be more effective at penetrating the multiple layers of body armor the perpetrators were wearing, they didn't make a difference in the incident. SWAT made the eventual takedown.

smokemaker
October 8, 2005, 04:11 PM
After reading the title of this thread, I thought the gangs had gotten ahold of a hotchkiss gun or something... not a puny .30 cal.

Commissar Gribb
October 8, 2005, 04:12 PM
a RPK is very similar to an AK-47, it has a caseing slightly longer than the .308, I can't remember the metric size. The USSR made it that way on purpose, kind of like the 9x23, obviously thier ammo won't fit in to our weapons, but our ammo will fit into thier weapons.

the RPK is exactly the same as an AKM/47 excepting for a longer heavier barrel, heavier receiver and a drum/large capacity box magazine in most cases. Same ammo and mags are interchangable though.

http://www.world.guns.ru/machine/rpk.jpg
RPK
http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/akm.jpg

Onmilo
October 8, 2005, 06:33 PM
Huh, I thought all guns were illegal in Chicago, and I know for a fact that shooting up a house and the occupants is illegal.
I guess it isn't a big deal if the bangers ventilate each other with .380 Hi-Points.

Standing Wolf
October 8, 2005, 06:41 PM
Looking out his window after hearing a disturbance, the man said he saw one man armed with an Uzi submachine gun, another with an AK-47 and other men with other types of guns.

I guess this means the sky really is falling this time, right?

AZ Jeff
October 9, 2005, 01:32 PM
a RPK is very similar to an AK-47, it has a caseing slightly longer than the .308, I can't remember the metric size. The USSR made it that way on purpose, kind of like the 9x23, obviously thier ammo won't fit in to our weapons, but our ammo will fit into thier weapons.

Virtually EVERYTHING said in the above paragraph is incorrect. Just to clarify: the RPK is a magazine fed, bipod equipped squad automatic weapon. It is chambered for the same cartridge as the AK-47 rifle, the 7.62x39 M1943 Soviet round.

The US military .30 caliber round currently in use is the 7.62x51 NATO round.

The cartridge case of the round fired by the RPK is 39mm long. The one fired by the US small arms is 51mm long. As one can see, the US round is physically LARGER than the Soviet counterpart. Safety issues aside, it becomes obvious that the US round would NEVER fit in the action/barrel of any of the Soviet arms.

You need to educate yourself on the major small arms cartridges of the world. May I suggest you start with some books like "Small Arms of the World", by Ezell, or similar?

BluesBear
October 13, 2005, 06:39 AM
AZ Jeff, thank you.

Joejojoba111
October 13, 2005, 07:11 AM
Anyone think it's a little suspicious that they used the word 'large calibre' so often? Just sort of seems like they received the new directives from the boss, and they are to use words like 'large calibre' whenever possible.

And then when they pass the 'large calibre weapons' ban the public will remember all the previous crimes committed with 'large calibre weapons', and nod in solemn approval.

Or it could be an innocent mistake, people confusing small bullets with being bigger than big bullets. Not to easy to make, but possible.

Matthew748
October 13, 2005, 07:29 AM
blume, it's Chicago. Everything is large caliber as everything is illegal.

Actually, this happened in Chicago Heights, a suburb 10 or so miles to the south of the city proper. I have no idea what type of local laws they have, but obviously they fall under IL and Cook county laws. It is a strange area, there are some Italian hold-out neighborhoods that are not bad, but the rest of the city has really gone down the tubes.

Until both Indiana and Illinois get their act together and finish the construction on 80/94, I am forced to commute through Chicago Heights and lovely Ford Heights, unarmed, to get to work. Wish me luck!

Janitor
October 13, 2005, 08:44 AM
After reading the title of this thread, I thought the gangs had gotten ahold of a hotchkiss gun or something... not a puny .30 cal.
No doubt. I was expecting at *least* a .50 BMG or some such.

I'm not sure when .30 became a 'large caliber' - seems to be a fairly average size to me - like (number out of my a$$ time) 90% or better of the military small arms in use worldwide today? I think that this ...
when they pass the 'large calibre weapons' ban the public will remember all the previous crimes committed with 'large calibre weapons', and nod in solemn approval.
... may be horribly close to the truth of the situation.

But this really shouldn't surprise any of us here. Note that the creep uses the terms "fully automatic military assult rifle" and "submachine gun" as though there was actually some sort of indication that automatic weapons had been used. But there was a complete lack of any other evidence of this in the article, other than the journalist must like saying those things.

I'm afraid that the term "large caliber" have now been joined to terms like "assult weapon" and "fully automatic military" and "evil black submachine gun". Terms meant to make one stand up and wail "what about the children?"

To tell the truth - after thinking about it a bit, there are so many lies and purposfully misdirecting statements in that story, I'm actually a bit surprised that a .50 BMG *didn't* show up in the article. Certainly, any witness sticking his head out of his window to watch a running gunfight that saw an Uzi and an AK could have been convinced to see a .50 as long as he was at it. Maybe a gang member trying to take out an airliner would have added just the right zest to the article.

Waitone
October 13, 2005, 09:48 AM
Anyone think it's a little suspicious that they used the word 'large calibre' so often? Just sort of seems like they received the new directives from the boss, and they are to use words like 'large calibre' whenever possible.Yea, me too. The only anti-gun initiative Schumeroids have going is Kennedy's jihad against cop killing ammo. You know, the ammo that that is fired by a center located primer? If this article is the latest move by Brady et al we should see other articles take a sudden interest in the caliber of the ammo, something which happened very seldom in the past.

Mr prediction? The push against centerfired ammo has begun.

Master Blaster
October 13, 2005, 10:02 AM
Looking out his window after hearing a disturbance, the man said he saw one man armed with an Uzi submachine gun, another with an AK-47 and other men with other types of guns.

You know around here that would be sufficient for a n- Knock warrant, and then they wouldnt have to rely on the landlord or code enforcement.

Are the police scared of these folks??????

nfl1990
October 13, 2005, 11:51 AM
If you folks are right about Brady, Kennedy, and Shumer, it might be time to start stocking up.

Hawkmoon
October 13, 2005, 12:36 PM
When did 30 cal. and Ak's become large caliber? Just shows, again, the folks writing the news don't have a clue. Up until the m-16 almost all military type rifles for the past century were 30 cal.
I picked up on this, too, but the way I read the article the erroneous (or "misleading") statement came from the police, not the author. Certainly makes you wonder if the guy might be dyslexic -- 7.62mm is "large caliber" but 9mm apparently isn't. Hmmmm ...

ctdonath
October 13, 2005, 01:32 PM
Once they get it socially ingrained that .30 is "large caliber heavy weapons", banning the relatively monstorously huge .50 becomes a no-brainer to most sheeple.

TheEgg
October 13, 2005, 02:25 PM
one of which police referred to as a common hangout for gang members and drug dealers.

All large city police departmenst do the same thing. They KNOW where the drug dealers are, and the gangs hang-out but do nothing about it, until some ultra-violent episode makes them conduct some sort of PR stunt to close some of these places down. Otherwise they seem to ignore them.

Why? Payoffs anyone? Or just lazy?

On the article -- 99.99% of the people would not know an AK-47 if you inserted it into their anal orifice. These days, any time someone sees a rifle the cry goes up "Assault Weapon!!!!" "AK-47!!!!!!" Often turns out to be a .22lr.

MechAg94
October 13, 2005, 05:21 PM
Huh, I thought all guns were illegal in Chicago, and I know for a fact that shooting up a house and the occupants is illegal.
I guess it isn't a big deal if the bangers ventilate each other with .380 Hi-Points.

BUT, .380 is greater than .30 caliber so it would be considered "LARGE CALIBER" as well and therefore too dangerous for law-abiding citizens to own.

Mongo the Mutterer
October 13, 2005, 05:51 PM
All large city police departmenst do the same thing. They KNOW where the drug dealers are, and the gangs hang-out but do nothing about it, until some ultra-violent episode makes them conduct some sort of PR stunt to close some of these places down. Otherwise they seem to ignore them.

Why? Payoffs anyone? Or just lazy?

Ever hear of the word RETRIBUTION? Do you really believe the Police, or their families are immune? Are there lazy officers, and officers on the pad, sure. But I think the fear of Retribution by the thugs in the neighborhood is a highly contributing factor for both Police and civilians alike.

TheEgg
October 13, 2005, 07:10 PM
"Ever hear of the word RETRIBUTION?"

I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the criminal underclass, but I would think only the dumbest crooks would try this. Think of what happens when a police officer is killed -- lot of BG's in jail, dead, out of business, etc. until the perp is caught or the cops work off their mad. So it would not be good business to do this. Sure, we have a particularly dumb brand of criminal these days, but still --

But I could be wrong.

Silent-Snail
October 13, 2005, 09:15 PM
I thought the RPK was 7.62x54R.

jobu07
October 13, 2005, 09:40 PM
I thought the RPK was 7.62x54R.

I think the gentleman who mentioned the RPK being chambered in x54r was confusing the RPK for the russian PK general purpose machine gun. The PK is a belt fed x54r while the RPK is a mag fed x39. Also, just to help confuse you, the RPD is a belt fed x39. :D And I can attest that the RPK and RPD are both a hoot to shoot.

Now where can I get ahold of a semi PK... ;)

Langenator
October 14, 2005, 12:37 AM
So .30 caliber is now a 'large caliber weapon' that's ultra dangerous.

That means the 3 most popular hunting calibers (.30-06, .308, .30-30) are ultra dangerous.

Of course, .38, 9mm, .40, 45...are all even larger.

Just plain stupid...or crazy like a fox?

Borachon
October 14, 2005, 01:16 AM
City folk.

Last weekend, we had a shooting incident in a nearby town. After it was over, one guy was dead, 6 or 7 "civilians" had been shot...or their vehicles...and 3 cops were in the hospital with various wounds to face, torso, and thigh. Luckily, none of the wounded people are expected to perish. Probably because the shooter was using a .22 caliber rifle! Anything larger and he would probably have killed several people.

This incident does illustrate one point....(in my opinion). Rural people shoot better than city people. :) One guy with a .22 rifle puts 8-12 people in the hospital in rural Mississippi. In Chicago, a whole group of guys armed with AK47's (or RPKs or RPDs or whatever) only put one person in the hospital. Your gangs wouldn't last ten minutes in the South.

Why are your local liberals even scared about gun violence? With this sort of hit ratio, your gangs look pretty sorry. ;)

Joejojoba111
October 14, 2005, 02:01 AM
The more I think the more obvious I think it is that they are laying the groundwork for banning 'large calibers'.

Does that mean .50's? Or does it mean all .30's?

But it is completely strange to see the term 'large caliber' used so often in one article. It has to be the new word list the editor handed out.

Think about it, usually this article would take about 'high powered' or 'assault' rifles. 'Large calibre' is a new one. And they didn't say it once, they repeated it and repeated it. If this is the new battlefield, expect more press rooms to receive the word-list and start promoting the terrors of 'large caliber' rifles.

ktd
October 14, 2005, 11:12 AM
yeah, seems like a lot of mils confuse the two, the RPK is basically a SAW, an AK with a stronger (and longer receiver) taking the AK 7.62x39 round. The PK (or PKM) is a different design and takes the 7.62x54 round. It is more like our M60 (and actually more like the M240). Stupid thing is heavy, has no handguard, feeds from the right, and uses non-dis links, but the thing is fast, reliable, and powerful. Then there is the RPD, a SAW that takes 7.62x39 in a belt.

benEzra
October 14, 2005, 12:43 PM
The PK is a belt fed x54r while the RPK is a mag fed x39.
If you ever see a 40-round AK magazine or a 75-round drum, those are actually milsurp RPK mags (which is why they are so much rarer and more expensive than 30-round mags).

Oh, 50-round AK mags aren't milsurp, they are U.S. production and are generally considered worthless junk.

Texas9
October 14, 2005, 02:31 PM
You know, I'm just as torqued about drive-by's and the like as the next guy. That being said... the media friggin sucks (not that anyone here needs a reminder). Let's analyze, shall we???

.30 caliber is large. Oooh. So what's a .40??

Similar to an AK47. Well. Wouldn't anything .30 cal be SIMILAR to an AK?

And the thing about the "fully automatic" was just too far.

For crying out Pete's sake. These lefty's keep getting their ways and anything bigger than .22 shorty will be "large caliber," just as anything more than 10 rounds was "high capacity" (and a chill filled the room :cool: )

rmgill
October 14, 2005, 03:28 PM
The soviet round that's larger than 7.62x51 is the 7.62x54R. It's a big rimmed case. Similar to the .303 brit or rimless 30.06 in power. SVDs fire them if I'm not mistaken.

If you enjoyed reading about "(IL) Gangs bringing out the big guns" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!