Wolff .45 ACP steel case ammo bad for SA 1911??


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Retro
October 9, 2005, 08:32 PM
So I was firing my SA 1911 at the range today with dirt cheap Russian Wolff .45 steel casing ammo, and the guy next to me approached me and told me that the steel case won't expand very well (in comparison to brass case) to fit the chamber, and I may have more wear on my barrel and chamber using steel case ammo.

So I am worried now since I can save 30 dollars per case (500 rd) of Wolff versus other brands... and a replacement barrel would cost over $150.

I fired 150 rds of Wolff ammo today within 2 hrs, and I did not have a single misfeed (I was using Wilson combat 7 rd mag). I was actually quite impressed with the quality of Wolff ammo until that guy told me this.

I know the Russian ammo are really dirty and I have to rinse my gun in Rem Oil to wash off all the carbon residues but that does not really bother me... I am more concerned with the irregular wear of my barrel, if that is true.

Any thoughts?

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Steelcore
October 9, 2005, 08:43 PM
The steel in the Wolf cases is soft steel.It will not wear out your gun faster.I just shot 200 rds thru a Witness P and I had no problems.

Feanaro
October 9, 2005, 08:46 PM
The steel Wolf uses is not the steel used in your barrel, nor has it been hardened. No one has ever shown any real proof, to my knowledge, that the steel can scratch or otherwise damage the barrel. On the other hand, we a number of good standing members and moderators who have shot a lot of Wolf. A LOT, tens of thousands of rounds. Either the "steel on steel" wear is crap or so little that you could buy a new barrel or three with the savings. The extractor is a bigger worry, IMO. And, again, the savings will probably let you buy plenty of extractors.

In my experience the bad talk about Wolf is mostly just that; talk.

kirkcdl
October 9, 2005, 08:55 PM
Well,you'll probably hear some extreme views,but here's how I look at it:If you compared barrels of two 1911s after 5000 rds,with one shot exclusively with Wolf ammo,the other exclusively brass cased ammo,you could probably tell a slight difference in wear between the two.However,no matter how many people are adamant that Wolf will immediately ruin your gun,nobody seems to take into account that the barrel and chamber of a modern autoloader are made of the hardest steel in the entire gun.Yes,more wear,but not at a noticeable rate.I shoot exclusively Wolf and other steel cased ammo in all of my AK rifles(5.45X39,7.62X39,308)also my Makarovs,and none of them has broken yet,after multiple thousands of rounds each.If you plan on shooting this gun a lot,look for bulk sellers and buy your ammo by the 500 or 1000 round can.I shoot a lot of reloads from Miwall,they sell their reloads and a variety of new ammo online through Outdoor Marksman,but any commercial reloader should be able to save you some money and give you a little more peace of mind if the steel case thing really bugs you.Judge for yourself...

Ala Dan
October 9, 2005, 09:09 PM
I don't shoot WOLFF ammo in any firearm~! :uhoh: Just my
personal preference. :D

444
October 9, 2005, 09:35 PM
I don't know absolutely, postively if Wolf ammo/steel cases with accellerate the wear on your gun. I doubt if it will. I wouldn't let it worry me. I have a lot of experience with Wolf rifle ammo, but not much with Wolf handgun ammo.
After reading a thread on this board about how the use of Wolf ammo will cause the sun to super nova and end life as we know it, I bought a case of Wolf in .45 ACP and one in 9mm Luger. I fired the case of 45 ACP through a Colt Series 80 1911 at our local steel plate shoot. This match was an elimination event where I was shooting a bone stock gun against race guns. I sometimes did pretty good, but never came close to winning. In order for me to recover any of my brass, I would have had to stay for an hour or two after I was eliminated, so using Wolf fit right into my schedule. It ran flawlessly and exhibited accuracy that was adequate for what I was doing. I ran the case of 9mm through my submachine gun and it ran fine. If I start shooing some kind of action pistol match again, I will probably just use Wolf rather than handloading my ammo. It is just so much easier to not even have to pick up my cases. Obviously, I am not worried in the least about it harming my guns.

I would have liked to have seen you ask that guy for any kind of evidence of what he was saying, or did he just hear that stuff on some internet gun forum like The High Road ?

bernie
October 9, 2005, 10:16 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but wasn't some of our WWII era .45 acp steel cased? I do not think that there was any problem with any of it and it was used in much harsher environments and I doubt if wear was a significant issue either.

Retro
October 9, 2005, 10:51 PM
Well, one thing I noticed about Wolff rounds is that after I ran 7 rounds through the 1911 by manually cocking the slide back and ejecting the rounds without actually firing them (testing ejector and extractor functions), the same 7 rounds will misfeed when actually being fired (every one of them will misfeed) next time around. I didn't notice the same thing with the Independence CCI rounds with brass cases. But I didn't have any problems with un-touched fresh-out-of-box Wolff rounds if I don't run them through the gun first.

So does this suggest a potential problem with extractor on Wolff rounds?

Anyway, I will continue to use my Wolff rounds because I have 2000 rds. I figure the most I will do is buy a new extractor and a new barrel for 150 dollars.

Thanks for the replies.

allmons
October 9, 2005, 11:14 PM
I can only give my experience with Wolf Ammo to you, but I have had excellent results with the .45 ACP (from a Glock 21), the 9 mm (from a Glock 17 ) and .223 (from a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle).

No failures to feed or fire, no excessive throat, chamber or barrel wear. I feel comfortable shooting Wolf daily. Have been using it regularly for about 2 years and will continue to use it if it remains cheap and plentiful.


:p

allmons
October 9, 2005, 11:17 PM
And I forgot to mention that I haven't replaced or repaired anything on any of the weapons that shoot Wolf Ammo. I don't work for them, have no financial stake in them, but I know that what I read on these boards has not been my experience with this ammo.

:)

Dienekes
October 10, 2005, 01:21 AM
Correct--there was a *lot* of steel case, corrosive primed .45 ACP ammo made in WWII. I shot up my share of it at $2 a box in the day.

No adverse results.

BluesBear
October 10, 2005, 06:03 AM
My current Colt Government has fired (with ZREO malfunctions) more Wolf ammo than all other brands combined. I'm too lazy to walk in the other room and look at my log book but I think it's digested about 6000 rounds of Wolf.
So all of the hoopla about increaded wear is a bunch of Horse Apples.

Wolf rims mic out to .472" so if your extractor isn't in spec it might not hand cycle very well.

For comparison USGI, W-W, R-P, Speer & CCI all mic out to .475" while USGI Steel cases (1943 & 1950) run .474".

Old Fuff
October 10, 2005, 09:36 AM
USGI steel-cased .45 ammunition sometimes would break the hook off a 1911 pistol's extractor, but this was caused mostly because of the way the extractor cut was made in the case. It was much too narrow and didn't have enough clearence on the front bevel. I haven't looked, but I suspect this isn't a problem with Wolf ammunition.

mec
October 10, 2005, 09:55 AM
I remember that the steel cased 42 or 43 ball was supposed to be hard on extractors. I never shot it in a 1911 but did shoot some of it in a Colt 1917. The steel would expand on firing and grip the chamber walls to such an extent that they had to be pounded out. The published theory at the time was that the steel would expand on firing but would not contract as brass does. If the same situation occurs in a 1911 chamber, I can see how it might overwork the extractor.

I don't know if the wolf stuff acts like this or not.

wally
October 10, 2005, 10:11 AM
I've over 7000 rounds of Wolf thru my Charles Daly EMS. The extractor broke at about 6200 rounds.

OTOH, the extractor in my pre-series 70 broke after ~7500 rounds of brass cased ammo.

I think you should never shoot Wolf ammo, then there will be more for me to buy at lower prices :)

--wally.

Old Dog
October 10, 2005, 03:51 PM
(heavy sigh) Only about a hundred threads on Wolf ammo over the past year on this and every other firearms forum ... and new Wolf threads every week. Perhaps tutorials on how to use the (not used nearly enough) "Search" function are in order?

I've shot only between 24 and 30 thousand rounds of Wolf .45 ACP through 9 Springfield Armory 1911s, 2 Kimbers, 3 Colt's, 1 Para-Ordnance and 1 Wilson over the past couple years or so ... so I probably don't have enough experience with Wolf handgun ammunition to state my opinion, but I will anyway: there is a reason there is so much friggin' Wolf ammo out there! Many, many shooters use it -- and if it were really that bad, we have every handgun manufacturer publicizing warnings against using Wolf -- so I submit it's only a handful of internet posters and a bunch of range owners who want to collect their customers' used brass, who don't like Wolf.

Pietro Beretta
October 10, 2005, 03:59 PM
Doesnt wolf claim that thier steel cases are softer than regular brass... Or am I just pulling that one out of my @$$ :confused:

Moonclip
October 10, 2005, 04:50 PM
It blows guns up just like Blazer! Just ask most of my local shooting ranges that don't allow it. Of course, that has nothing to do with not wanting to cull out the non reloadable brass does it :rolleyes:

wally
October 10, 2005, 05:11 PM
I don't know what Wolf claims, but if you pick up a fresh Wolf empty (no rust) and a brass empty left behind at your range I think you can see for yourself that its easier to crush the Wolf case than the brass case, and easier still to crush an aluminum Blazer case.

--wally.

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