Webley Question


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confed sailor
October 11, 2005, 08:07 PM
are there any webley shooters here?

i just got a MkVI and was curious about any idiosyncrasies before i take it out to play.

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jondar
October 11, 2005, 08:33 PM
I also have a MKVI, unfortunately converted to ACP. Nothing wrong with the ACP, just it would be worth more money if original. I shoot it now and then with .45 Auto Rim and half and full moon clips with .45 ACP. I used to load theAuto Rim with 7.5 grains of Unique and the .45 Colt standard bullet of 255 grains but several members on another forum told me this is way too much pressure for the Webley. So I've backed off. Some members frowned on using the standard .45 ACP "military load". Mine is stamped as six tons pressure square inch; I believe this is long tons which would be around 15,000 lbs. I enjoy shooting mine, not much recoil, shoots very accurately at 25 yards and if you reload doesn't cost a lot to shoot.

confed sailor
October 11, 2005, 09:42 PM
i got lucky i guess as no one has turn the back of the cylinder down to use moon clipped 45's

i have some fiocci 455 on the way, but i miked the bore at the muzzle (witch is absolutely gorgeious BTW, looks like it was taken care of) and got .455 exact.

will i get decent accuracy with a 454 or 452 bullet? Im almost ready to call lee for a custom mould.

jondar
October 12, 2005, 08:39 AM
I get better accuracy with the .454 bullets. So far all I have used in .454's is the .45 Colt 255 gr bullet which groups very well. I had a bunch of .45 ACP cartridges I bought at a gun show, hollow points which wouldn't function in my 1918 Model 1911 so I shot them up in the Webley and they didn't group nearly as well as the handloads in .454. I have read that some of those Webleys could have a bore diameter as high as .457, but can't verify that. I've never slugged my barrell, maybe I will. As expensive as those Fiocci cartridges are, handloading would save you a lot of money.

unspellable
October 12, 2005, 01:28 PM
Slug your chamber mouths before you decide anything. The Webley MkVI was intended to take a bullet with a deep hollow base, almost like a mini ball, the chamber mouths may be smaller than the barrel groove diameter. (No easy job to measure with seven grooves.)

I had a mint MkVI and lost it in a burglery. I've never been able t ofind a replacement, and finally sold off about 500 rounds of 455 ammo and as many cases.

I'm inclined to say the accuracy is better with 455 ammo than with the 45 ACP conversion jobs. (Never understood why the conversion, 455 ammo was easy to come by when they were doing all the conversions.)

BTW: I have a set of dies for it.

TimboKhan
October 12, 2005, 01:56 PM
Interesting post; I kind of dig Webleys and would like one, although I think I would actually prefer one that could be used with moonclips and .45 acp.

JohnKSa
October 12, 2005, 07:23 PM
There's a guy who posts on TFL (www.thefiringline.com) whose handle is WebleyMkV, IIRC. He might have some insight...

confed sailor
October 12, 2005, 07:51 PM
Slug your chamber mouths before you decide anything. The Webley MkVI was intended to take a bullet with a deep hollow base, almost like a mini ball, the chamber mouths may be smaller than the barrel groove diameter. (No easy job to measure with seven grooves.)

you know i was thinking about that, because lee makes a mould for the ruger old army that would work perfectly, its a conical hollow base. but i says to myself, "thats crazy" oh it is crazy, so crazy it just might work!!! :D

and i get what you are coming at timbo, when i bought it i was thinking how in gods name am i gonna feed this monster

Gordon
October 12, 2005, 08:07 PM
"I had a mint MkVI and lost it in a burglery. I've never been able t ofind a replacement" DITTO :fire:
I do have a mint Mark V, and have only fired a few hundred Fiocchi .455s in it. While not as accurate as the Mark VI , it sure looks a lot neater!

Mossyrock
October 13, 2005, 11:14 AM
Hornady is making new .455 ammo that is being sold through Graf & Sons! Hornady is also making a .454" swaged lead 255gr bullet that is marketed for the Cowboy Action crowd that would be a great Webley bullet.

Slug your cylinder throats and bore and see what you come up with. Small chamber throats can always be opened up a smidge. Oversized chamber throats are a problem that can be helped a bit by opening up the barrel forcing cone. I have thought that Taylor Throating (http://www.alphaprecisioninc.com/revolver/default.htm) would be a great solution to this problem. Either way, they are great revolvers, especially in the original chambering.

Carl N. Brown
October 13, 2005, 01:05 PM
I have a Webley Mark IV converted to .45 AutoRim.
I load .45 ACP cases once fired in my 1911.
My final load is 1.0cc PyroP and Hornady .454 255 gr.
cowboy action bullets. I did not get good accuracy
from .451 or .452 bullets for the .45 ACP but the
.454 255gr flat round nose seems to be close to
the .455 260 gr bullet the gun was designed for;
for accuracy loads should generate only 650-700 fps.
I do not intend to use .45ACP FMJ in this gun.
I use full moon six shot clips for the handloads in
.45ACP casings.

Also have loaded some .45 revolver shot caps with
No. 7 1/2 shot and enough Unique to penetrate
both sides of a steel coffee can (shotloads about
same length as cylinder.)

I get better accuracy from handloads in .45 ACP
casings than from .45 AutoRim casings: primer,
powder, bullet being the same. .45 AutoRim seems
to be small for the Webley chamber.

Webleys are homely but sure are a lot of fun.

cxm
October 13, 2005, 03:08 PM
The advice about slugging the chamber mouths is very good.

In general, .455 Webley chamber mouths will run .457-.458. This is often true of Colt's New Service revolvers in .455 Webley as well. The S&W version is usually a bit tighter and will work better with .452 bullets.

The Hornady semi-hollow base .454 255 gr swaged bullet works well in my .455s. With .452 bullets I was having problems with the bullet 'key-holeing" from my Colt's New Service .455. Problem goes away with the .454 semi-hollow base bullets.

The original Webley load was a big hollow cavity bullet of a nominal 260 gr. with a semi hollow base. This load had a reputation for being quite a good man-stopper in colonial service. When the Great War was kicking off (or on the horizon... depending on which version you like), it was apparently concluced this bullet did not comply with the requirements of the 1907 Hague accords and was replaced with a 265 gr. conical (sort of) swaged bullet. While this load worked ok, it was not as good as the old hollow cavity load in the man-stopper department.

As an aside, these can be quite accurate guns if they have not been butchered over the years. I recall in the 60s when gun stores would have barrels of them for about $25 ...take your choice.

FWIW

Chuck

zeke
October 14, 2005, 07:16 AM
Have a Webley Mark I (shaved down) and a Mark VI (made by Enfield). both barrels and cylinder throats were slugged at about .449. Have read the earlier Webley-fosters,later Smith and Wessons and Colts had larger chamber throats.

Am loading mine with 200 hardcast lrnfps sized down to .451 at about 670 fps, with good results. The Mark I and MArk II original loads, while a 260 grain bullet, were very elogated with minimal length of full diam.

unspellable
October 14, 2005, 08:27 AM
Is your Enfield the actual Webley MkVI pattern or is it an Enfield pattern?

Enfield made revolvers that were very similar to the Webleys, but not close enough to call them clones. But they also made a few Webley clones. The frames are very similar, if I rember correctly the most obvious difference aside from markings was in the arrangement of the cylinder bolts, the Webley pattern having two, the Enfield pattern having one like most revolvers.

Also, Enfield made a lot of 38's that were self cocking only, with no hammer spur. I've never seen a Webley done that way.

Most of the Enfields I've seen were 38's but I have seen 455's. One finished in an olive green parkerized type finish.

Lone Star
October 15, 2005, 12:05 AM
Enfield ceased buying from Webley about 1921, making an exact copy of the MK. VI until the No. 2 .38 was adopted in 1927.

You can't tell those .455's from Webley production without reading the markings. I've owned MK. VI's from both sources, by the way.

Lone Star

zeke
October 15, 2005, 08:23 AM
The Mark VI is a 1925 Enfield. As far as i know, it is an exact copy of Webley and darker parkerized original finish.

Lone Star
October 15, 2005, 09:18 AM
By the way, they got away with this because the Crown can't be sued for commercial infringements.

Lone Star

unspellable
October 17, 2005, 09:20 AM
When would Webley's patents, if any, on the MkVI have run out?

Why was the MkVI pattern Enfield I saw in a distinctly green finish rather than black?

Lone Star
October 17, 2005, 07:19 PM
Good question: but the patents would have probably been on the basic system, not the cosmetic changes that made the MK. VI.

The gun used patents applied initially to the Webley-Kaufman and Webley-Green guns from the 1880's, and there may have been updates. The government revolvers from MK. I (1887) to the MK. IV (1899) improved the method of removing the cylinder and in the extraction system. The MK. V (1913) merely increased cylinder diameter over the MK. IV, to make it safer with smokeless powders.

The MK. VI used a butt shape that dates from at least the Webley-Wilkinson of 1905, which closely resembled the MK. VI, except that it was better finished, and lacked the triangular holster guides in front of the cylinder. (The Wilkinson series was updated in 1911 with a stronger cylinder.)

I suppose it is possible that the patents had run out, but the government didn't have to worry about that, as it couldn't be sued. Moot point.

If anyone does know the limit of the Webley patents, please post. I'll try to find that info, also.

Webley sold the MK. VI to the government from 1915-1918, maybe later. It was still available from Webley commercially until at least the opening of WW II, and was shown in Stoeger's catalog as late as 1939. I once saw the ad in an old "Shooter's Bible".

Lone Star

Mordoc
October 17, 2005, 09:05 PM
I have an unconverted Enfield No. 2 (.38) marked RAF 1937. Top Breaks are neat weapons. Mine is light and balances well. The single action is light and crisp. I need a Mk. VI to go with it.

BluesBear
October 17, 2005, 09:11 PM
Technically it's not a Webley MkVI.

The real name for it is Revolver No. 1 Mk VI. Since it is military terminology, the manufacturer doesn't matter.

Just like the Pistol, caliber .45, M1911A1 was produced by various manufacturers.

confed sailor
October 17, 2005, 09:50 PM
yes bear that might be correct, but if i type that many people are going to scratch their heads and go "huh?"

oh and in today off ebay. i got the armorer's posters for the webley, very cool

P95Carry
October 17, 2005, 11:13 PM
My venerable MkIV was in bad shape once but I stripped it and cleaned things up and then cold blued - if a good CLP protective film maintained, it keeps well. Had to replace mainspring and also top break lever spring - which was a poor semblance, not even copy, of original but - it works.

I rarely shoot mine and cheat a bit - using Fiocchi brass and just oversized .230 grain lead RN bullets, I load some very mild rounds - enough to shoot safely. This one is in the old .455 cal.


http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/web_mkvi_s.jpg

Moonclip
October 18, 2005, 03:10 AM
I just acquired a 1932 no2 mk1 enfield in 38/200 that still retains the SA capabilty but it is technically not a Webley. I hope to get a 455 Webley of some sort or even the 45acp modded one eventually, very rare around here and high priced when one is found. I guess I saw old war movies and Michael Collins too many times!

cane
October 18, 2005, 12:24 PM
I have 2 Webley revolvers; A Mark VI, that has been altered to accept the moon clips for .45ACP. On the frame it says,Webley Mark VI patents 1918. The second is a 38/200 Mark IV 38 and on the topstrap it is marked Webley&Scott ltd. It is also marked "war finish", so it would appear that W&S was still making Mark IVs even after the production was started at Enfield. I shoot them both and really enjoy them, wonder why there aren't any new made top breaks.

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