Kahr PM9 Frame Problems


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Extremist
March 29, 2003, 09:42 PM
Called Kahr on this, they said "normal, not a problem". I noticed it the last time I took it out. As you can see in these pics, the left side of the frame, where the trigger pivot pin is, has started to gouge/tear out. Didn't notice it the first two times I shot it, but this last time, there was a sharp burr developing.

Anyone else's look like this?

http://www.lenaburgs.net/images/Kahr/KahrFrame1s.jpg
http://www.lenaburgs.net/images/Kahr/KahrFrame4s.jpg

Regards,
James

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GunNut
March 29, 2003, 09:58 PM
"normal, not a problem". :what:

I'm afraid this will not become a "problem" until your trigger falls out.

Damn that don't look good.

Guess I'll stick with my Glock 27.......

Steve

NJ3
March 29, 2003, 11:05 PM
That doesn't look good at all. How many rounds have you shot with it? My PM9 with over 500 rounds doesn't look anything like that.

darshan27
March 29, 2003, 11:30 PM
Hello James,

Ugggh. I thought this only happened to us Taurus PT 145 users. Early runs of this gun had some of the polymer shearing off after shooting. The polymer would chip off the end of the frame where the slide would meet. This did not affect the shooting in anyway, but made many people (including myself) nervous. I held off buying one until they resolved the issue. However, the problem has been resolved by using a new polymer blend.

I'm not too familiar with Kahr (I know they are excellent pistols, and for the longest time, I considered getting a PM9 or P9), but does their CS department have an email address that you can send this jpg to? That pic makes me nervous, and if it has even 1/10,000th of a chance of being a safety issue, I would press to have the frame fixed or replaced. There is no such thing as being too paranoid about making sure that this pistol is 100% reliable since you may have to defend yourself with it some day.

Take care and shoot safe,
Tony

Extremist
March 29, 2003, 11:43 PM
The gun MAYBE has 200 rounds through it.

I will be emailing the jpegs to them on Monday.

Regards,
James

plnkr1234
March 30, 2003, 12:13 AM
Hi Guys,

I just checked out a PM9. The left side of the frame around the trigger pin does appear to be roughly finished similar to the view in the second picture.

Looking at the pistol in the same perspective as the first picture, there is also a small flaw in the frame. Upon closer inspection, it appears to be a small pin going through the frame into the trigger pin.

IIRC, some of the early polymer framed Kahrs had problems with the trigger pin walking out of place. Anyone know if Kahr solved this by securing the trigger pin with a small pin through the frame? If so, I think that is what you may be seeing...the end of the securing pin for the trigger pin backing out slightly to raise the burr you felt.

Best

plnkr1234
March 30, 2003, 12:30 AM
Hey Guys,

I just noticed another similar post below about a P9. It seems that Kahr does use a small cross pin through the frame to secure the trigger pin.

Best

gbelleh
March 30, 2003, 12:58 AM
My PM9 has about 500 rounds through it and I just looked closely at it.

There is a small bump on the frame (see circled area in picture). I never noticed it before.

The pin doesn't look as rough as in Extremist's picture, but there's definately a small bump on the frame. It does look like it could easily be caused by a cross pin securing the trigger pin. It doesn't look too bad on my pistol, it doesn't look like it would cause any problems.

Ivansrm
March 30, 2003, 12:55 PM
Hi Guys, I purchased a P9 a week ago and I have the same mark in the same spot. It looks like something was melted onto the frame. You can't really notice it from the side, only when you turn the gun upside down. From what I undersatnd this is where they put the new pin to prevent the trigger pin from sliding out. My gun has been 100 % reliable after 350 rounds. 100 rounds were my carry ammo. If your guns have been reliable I wouldn't worry about it too much, its only cosmetic. :)

Jiml3
March 30, 2003, 03:22 PM
with regard to Ivansrm's comment, "If it shoots accurately, I wouldn't worry, it's just cosmetic." I firmly disagree. Kahr makes all steel and polymer guns. The problems with quality control appear in the polymer guns. For the high price they charge for a plastic gun, the consumer is entitled to a high quality gun. If they told people before they purchased this gun that not to worry if you see some seperation, chipping or peeling in the stock, do you really think they would pay $500. for this gun?
I was about to purchase a P9 but now, the answer is NO!
Does anybody else wonder why a plastic gun cost so much?

gudel
March 30, 2003, 03:47 PM
that's not right, particularly if they charge higher for that gun. it should be at least not breaking down at 100 rounds!
yeah Jiml3 has a point there.

i also have a plastic gun too, shot 100 rounds this friday. didn't see the problem like this one and it's not cheap either. oh it's an HK :D

stretcharmstrong
March 30, 2003, 03:55 PM
"...For the high price they charge for a plastic gun, the consumer is entitled to a high quality gun. If they told people before they purchased this gun that not to worry if you see some seperation, chipping or peeling in the stock, do you really think they would pay $500. for this gun?..."

From what most people posted in this thread, it seems the rough finish in that one spot is/was like that from the purchase point. Granted, it seems to be a somewhat sloppy job to correct a problem but there is no evidence of peeling, chipping, or separation? I guess I am having a hard time following your logic. I'm sure in future production models this blemish will be corrected. I don't think it's wrong for Kahr to produce this gun. It's just up to the consumer to decide whether or not the blemish constitutes persuing the purchanse of a different gun other than the PM9. From most other accounts in terms of overall fit and finish and reliability, the gun seems to be excellent, well made, and definately high quality. Obviously for you, this eye sore is intolerable and the gun is now junk?
:what:

SAWBONES
March 30, 2003, 04:54 PM
As the owner of four Kahr guns, including the PM9, I can merely sympathize.
(I've posted about this several times on TFL, but not on THR.)

I've had problems of one sort or another with all of them, some minor, some major.

Kahr IS NOT ACCOMODATING when it comes to genuine repair or replacement.
They'll perform an unsatisfactory pseudo-repair or give you a "new replacement" which will actually be a refurbished customer-return, and it will take 2-4 months each time, and you'll likely find the result less than satisfactory, but you won't get a refund from Kahr. I've done this through four cycles of returns with a single example, and it has pretty much soured me on the company and its management.
They might give you credit toward another gun if you fuss long and loud.

Some of their guns work just fine, of course.
If you have one, consider that you've had good luck.
Trouble is, Kahr's quality has been deteriorating, and their products are anything but consistent.

And this is what they advertise as "state of the art" quality control and manufacture (on their website).

Too bad, since a truly small and lightweight quality-made 9mm is obviously a good thing, if only such existed.

I'll be interested to see the Rohrbaugh, but no more Kahrs for me!.

wun_8_seven
March 30, 2003, 11:24 PM
sawbones if you've had nothing but trouble with kahrs why did you purchase the pm9? 187

incursion
March 30, 2003, 11:30 PM
I was not impressed with the frame of the PM9 that I saw.

cratz2
March 31, 2003, 12:35 AM
I've always wondered why if someone had a problem with three of something, why they would buy a fourth? Three bad Kahrs so out of all the guns in the world, you buy a fourth? :confused:

If I had owned three '97-'98 Cavaliers, and they all died or had some serious malady, I'd at least conisder switching to a Escort. Maybe even a Civic. ;)

Kahrs seem to be far from perfect but I think they're a good design. I know several Kahr owners that are very demanding of their guns and put many rounds through them that are happy campers. I also don't understand where the idea of their difficult to take down comes from? Took me 3 seconds to figure it out in teh shop and I didn't have a manual?

Jiml3
March 31, 2003, 09:05 PM
Stretcharmstrong said in reply to my post:
"Obviously for you, this eyesore is intolerable and the gun is now junk?"

Never said that! I did say that I was about to purchase one. I had done quite a bit of research and heard that a lot of people liked the piece. Until I came across this thread, I was unaware of the problem of the drifting pin which Kahr was aware of, was being addressed in such a shoddy way. My contention is that if I am going to purchase a plastic gun for $500. plus, I expect that it is going to arrive without this flaw. For them to say it is normal, I disagree. They should mark it a second and reduce the price. By putting up with shoddy workmanship you only encourage them.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just trying to explain my viewpoint. Never bought a Colt for the same reason. If I pay a high price, I expect high qualty, and if I purchase a low price item, my expectations are lowered. Kahr has an obligation to live up to their stated quality. If more people stopped buying until they properly address the problem, the problem would be quickly resolved.

Just my opinion.

Watch-Six
April 1, 2003, 11:40 AM
I just checked out Extremists pics and they do not look normal to me. I have a PM9 and it has not done this. As earlier mentioned I can see the small pin at that location. I had not noticed it before. IMHO Kahr needs to fix your pistol. Watch-Six

Ivansrm
April 1, 2003, 06:47 PM
Jml3, if you read my post carefully I said if the gun is RELIABLE not to worry about it. I DID NOT say if the gun is accurate don't worry about it. There is a difference. The trigger pin problem has been fixed with these guns. It just happened to make a small mark on the frame. I can live with that no problem if it makes the gun safer and reliable which it did. Thats all that matters in a defense gun. The gun is not intended to win any beauty contests. It is a defense gun, plain and simple. Guns for this purpose will eventually get dings, scratches, faded finishes etc. WHO CARES.....as long as the gun functions. That was my only point. :D

Cableman
April 1, 2003, 08:03 PM
I have a PM9 and the "pin" that holds the trigger pivot pin you are talking about was not fully seated on my gun. I called Kahr and they said it was safe to seat the pin in farther. When I would shoot, my trigger finger would rub against the pin and it was not comfortable at all. So I took the PM9 apart and used a small punch and hit the pin with a good whack only once. The pin seated all the way into the frame and the trigger guard where the pin seats is now smooth. If yours is doing the same, I would suggest you punch the pin in a little farther.

As for the left side of the frame where the trigger pivot pin is, my PM9 still looks good and there is no delamination of the polymer in the trigger pin area.

I only have 100 rounds through my PM9, so it may start coming apart...if it does I will send it back to Kahr.

The PM9 has been my primary CCW since I bought it in December.

FunYet
April 3, 2003, 12:19 AM
I have just over 1000 rounds through my PM9. After reading this thread and looking at the pictures I took the gun out and looked at the area around the pin. I don't see any wear or pitting on mine.

Extremist
April 11, 2003, 02:22 PM
Called Kahr this morning and talked to Javier. He said to just return it and they would replace it. I asked if I could get night sights on the replacement and he said just to put in the letter that I would like it replace with one with night sights and they would do that for me.

Sounds good, I will send next week and see how it goes :)

Regards,
James

NJ3
April 11, 2003, 07:13 PM
Sounds good, let us know when you get the replacement.

Kahr is pretty good about "making things right". They're just slow sometimes. The first time I sent my PM9 in it took six weeks for me to get it back. :( The last time I sent it in it only took a week and a half to get it back.

plnkr1234
April 12, 2003, 10:31 PM
Hi NJ3,

I'm a big fan of the PM9 myself, but if you don't mind my asking, why did you need to send yours in twice?

Thanks.

NJ3
April 13, 2003, 12:01 AM
why did you need to send yours in twice?

plnkr1234,

The first time was because it was not feeding reliably even after 500 rounds. When Kahr finally returned it to me the front sight was loose so I sent it back for that.

I too am a fan of the PM9, and I think I'll keep mine as long as it doesn't give me anymore problems.

Extremist
June 7, 2003, 12:41 PM
UPDATE:

I picked up my replacement PM9 yesterday from my dealer. It is about 5000 higher in S/N and has a longer trigger pin that was the cause of the previous problem.

Unfortunately, it did NOT come with Night Sights as promised by Kahr. I will give them a call on that Monday.

So, it took what, from April 16th (when the received it) to June 4th (when my dealer got the replacement) which is about 6 weeks.

I will give a range report when I take it out.

James

Sven
June 28, 2003, 02:51 AM
How's it holding up?

Skunkabilly
June 30, 2003, 03:57 AM
Yeah, hows it going, inquiring minds want to know.

Extremist
July 1, 2003, 12:05 AM
Haven't had a chance to take it out shooting yet. I was kinda waiting for my nite sites to arrive so I could install them and test them. In any event, it will be shot on July 8th, as I'm teaching a CHL renewal class and going to the range for sure :p

James

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