FAL dream brings question


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rockstar.esq
October 12, 2005, 12:36 AM
As an unrepentant fan of the FAL rifle design I would like nothing better than to own one for my very own. Problem one is that of funding. Prices for DSA's loom in the $1500.00 region whereas the ever so much cheaper Century fits closer to my budget. That said, I'd like to be able to shoot the ever lovin snot out of it regularly. As untraditional as it sounds, I would also like to use it for deer/ elk hunting in Colorado. Problem two relates specifically to the Century (G3 if I recall correctly) that doesn't have a bolt hold open AND the only person I know who owned one had to send his back because the muzzle brake was misaligned!!! Again, however controversial I don't want a semiauto without a bolt hold open. What do you guy's think? Illustrations of the differences between all candidates would be much appreciated.

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Third_Rail
October 12, 2005, 12:52 AM
Save up, get the DSA one you want. It's worth it - I've handled one and didn't want to let it go.

Bwana John
October 12, 2005, 01:28 AM
Check the FAL file market place, you can usually pic up a nice Imbel recievered FAL for ~$800. The FAL has two types of bolt hold opens. The metric one holds the bolt open after the last shot, the inch version must be manually enguaged. The inch version can be made to hold the bolt open after the last round with the addition of a little roll pin.

3rdpig
October 12, 2005, 01:51 AM
I wanted a FAL too and was turned off by some of the prices for new rifles. I wound up getting a FrankenFAL that someone built from an L1A1 kit on a metric Entreprise receiver. I actually traded around $500 of AR parts for it. I have to admit that despite it's mixed heritage it's a beautiful rifle with the Aussie coachwood furniture and it's a great shooter too with the SA milsurp ammo. Everyone who knows FAL's that I've shown it to likes it. And more importantly, I like it.

http://members.cox.net/hawgwild/fal4.jpg

Coronach
October 12, 2005, 02:30 AM
DSA STG-58 "kit guns" are pretty much as good as their all-new guns, albiet in limited configuration, and cost sub $1,000.

I have one. It's nice.

Mike

50 Freak
October 12, 2005, 04:36 AM
DSA is nice but it's not $1500 nice.

Buy a good receiver and good parts kit. Have it nice FAL for about $500 to $600.

Matthew748
October 12, 2005, 06:24 AM
I second the STG-58 "kit gun." I got one a year or two ago and could not be more pleased. I had to order it from DSA through my dealer since all the shop had in stock were the very nice, but more expensive SA-58s. I asked that they use the older furniture and install the carry handle. It took a while, but that is how the gun came. The finish was perfect and the bore was pristine. Needless to say, I am very happy with my STG-58.

goon
October 12, 2005, 07:37 AM
Get the FAL. DSA builds STG-58s out of parts kits. I just ordered one a couple weeks ago and it came to just over $1,000 after shipping. I am still waiting for it to show up because they generally run 3-4 weeks wait for your build. I will admit that I would like to shoot it now, but it is also cool to know that they are building a rifle just for ME, MY RIFLE. :D
I was shooting my ORF Imbel build yesterday and I wound up with one 100 yard group just over 2" using portugese surplus ammo. Discounting 1 flyer it would have been just over an inch with three shots touching. I was just using sandbags and the issue sights. This rifle has taken alot of work to get it to run right but man will it shoot!
Find a way to get one. No matter what you wind up paying it will be worth it to get a quality FAL.

iamkris
October 12, 2005, 07:37 AM
Agreed, don't compare the DSA SA58 at $1500 to a Century. The DSA StG58A is a $800 gun and runs circles around the Century.

demusn1979
October 12, 2005, 07:40 AM
I wanted a FAL too and was turned off by some of the prices for new rifles. I wound up getting a FrankenFAL that someone built from an L1A1 kit on a metric Entreprise receiver. I actually traded around $500 of AR parts for it. I have to admit that despite it's mixed heritage it's a beautiful rifle with the Aussie coachwood furniture and it's a great shooter too with the SA milsurp ammo. Everyone who knows FAL's that I've shown it to likes it. And more importantly, I like it.


and i like it! :D

Father Knows Best
October 12, 2005, 12:35 PM
Problem two relates specifically to the Century (G3 if I recall correctly) that doesn't have a bolt hold open AND the only person I know who owned one had to send his back because the muzzle brake was misaligned!!!

You're confusing two entirely different guns. Century does make G3 clones (or more accurately, CETME clones, which are virtually identical to the G3). The G3/CETME is not a FAL. It is a completely different rifle. The FAL is a gas-operated rifle. The G3/CETME is blowback. The FAL has a machined receiver that hinges open like a double shotgun. The CETME/G3 has a stamped receiver that does not hinge open (the backplate slides off for field stripping). The semi-auto version of the G3 is the HK 91. The FAL looks a lot like a CETME/G3/HK91 in profile, and both rifles are chambered in 7.62x51, but that's about where the similarities end.

All FAL's have bolt hold-opens. No CETME's/G3's do. Both take 20 round mags, but the mags are not interchangeable.

I don't know anything about Century FAL's. I do know that Century CETME/G3's do not have a very good reputation. The best new FAL's are being made by DSA. The best new G3's are being made by JLD Enterprises (called the PTR-91).

If you really want a FAL, I second the recommendation for a DSA STG-58. They use the same receivers as the SA58, but cost a lot less because the rest of the parts are milsurp (in very good condition and often refinished). It's very hard to tell an SA58 from a STG58 without very close inspection, and they shoot the same.

Bart Noir
October 12, 2005, 02:47 PM
First, read this if you haven't:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160455

That will put my next remark in context.

"The G-3 is not a blowback gun! It's a delayed blowback gun! Sheesh, get it right." :)

Bart Noir
Who couldn't resist saying that.

ny32182
October 12, 2005, 03:02 PM
I have an SA-58. After some smoothing of the rails and sight adjustment, it is a very nice rifle. Is it worth the money? Well... its the only all new production FAL out there at a high quality level. I think StG-58s will start to climb in price because of the recent barrel ban, if I understand it correctly.

Father Knows Best
October 12, 2005, 03:42 PM
Bart Noir (great name!) said:
"The G-3 is not a blowback gun! It's a delayed blowback gun! Sheesh, get it right."

Bart Noir
Who couldn't resist saying that.

Well, then, I can't resist pointing out that open on my desk in front of me is a reference work titled Technical Description of the Automatic Rifle G3, printed by Fabrica Militar de Braco de Prata, which is the company that manufactured them (under license from H&K) for the Portuguese military. Under section 1.1.3 ("General Description"), it states:
The G3 is a recoil-operated weapon with fixed barrel incorporating a split blowback locking system.

Nothing about "delayed" there.... :neener:

Bart Noir
October 13, 2005, 02:57 PM
Oh boy, an argument!

The three main types of autoloading actions are gas operated, recoil, or blowback. There are variations on all those, but in a recoil system the barrel has to move in the frame. Such as 1911 pistol, Luger, Browning 1919 MG, etc.

The blowback guns have the barrel fixed and the bolt/slide opens just from the force of the cartridge case pushing in and aft-erly direction. Such as Walther PPK, many subguns etc. Some designs, such as H&k, delay that aft motion by means of rollers that have to move out of slots in the frame, before the bolt/slide can move.

I don't see how a gun can be "recoil" operated and yet be any kind of "blowback".

Bart Noir

Father Knows Best
October 13, 2005, 03:24 PM
I don't see how a gun can be "recoil" operated and yet be any kind of "blowback".

I agree with you. I was just quoting the technical manual. It's all in good fun. ;)

captain obvious
October 13, 2005, 03:53 PM
Find one of the imbel recievers and a good parts kit, then hand it to a gunsmith/armorer you trust.

You won't be dissapointed

modifiedbrowning
October 13, 2005, 10:15 PM
These guys are supposed to be pretty good. www.ohiorapidfire.com.

NineseveN
November 4, 2005, 05:32 PM
You have 3 good options here:

1. Save up and get a DSA. I have 2 rifles, both originally built by DSA. One of them I can shoot chain links in half at 100 yards (no bull), the other I just had some work done to it, haven't shot it yet, but I expect it to perform about the same.

2. Get a parts kit and receiver and have a good smith build it (I'd recommend Rich at cgwguns.com). You can use the one I mentioned or head to www.falfiles.com and find one to your liking.

3. Wait for a used one to pop up. True, you might pay near 1200 - 1500 when all is said and done for a nice one with accessories used (scope mount, bipod, good furniture etc...) but you'll get more out of it than a new DSA for the money, because of depreciation.


The FAL is an awesome design, my favorite, you cannot go wrong with a good FAL. Ignore the nay Sayers who say FALs cannot be accurate. A nice tight headspace and good bolt/carrier/receiver fit is what is important. I would avoid Century like the plague personally.

One of my DSA's, I put a new barrel on it and a WeaponArts PSG-1 stock set and a versa-pod. I cleaned up the trigger group, she shoots amazing groups (see aforementioned split chain links for reference) and can rock and roll if need be. We made sure the headspace was tight and the bolt carrier/receiver fit was good. I make bolt rifle guys cry. True, this is not a .25MOA gun, I don't need it to be, but it'll do the job and 3-5 shot groups can be covered with a quarter from the bench using bags or the bipod.

AH-1
November 4, 2005, 06:43 PM
fn/fal G1 picked this one up for 500.00
http://www.hunt101.com/img/333204.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=333204&c=500&z=1)

Kurush
November 4, 2005, 07:43 PM
Pretty much all the excellent StG-58 kits are gone. DSA is now selling very good/mismatched for $329 and those'll be gone soon too.

m39fan
November 5, 2005, 01:59 PM
The Century FAL's aren't hopeless cases. My R1A1 (Century's designation) runs great after finding that the gas plug was out of spec ($6 part). Yes, they might not be as pretty as a $1000 version but it's not a bad way to get into FAL's. You may or may not have to tinker with a Century built gun but most of the issues are cheap and easy to fix (if any). The guys over at FALFiles are indespensable resources!

I bought my R1A1 with an ARMS mount for $400. Sold the stock set off of it (mine's Inch), put on a set of Ironwood furniture (1/2 price from the woodpile) and a L1A1 flash hider. Not only does it look correct (Aussie kit) but it turns heads whereever it goes. Just needs reparked and it'll be done! Total outlay to date is $535. Not bad for a L1A1 wouldn't you say? :D My only delimma is what to spend the savings on? Maybe another R1A1?

HTH,
Mike

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