October 12, 2005, 04:24 AM
In fact, they have a new model (http://www.bersa-llama.com/cat_maxIIseries.htm) out in a couple months.
It would seem they merged with Bersa.
As I have had good luck with Llama's and certainly like the prices, this is good news to me.
October 12, 2005, 09:59 AM
Star, on the other hand, IS out of business.
October 12, 2005, 11:46 AM
I hate to break it to you..But Llama is out of buisness until someone else buys their tooling. I've been trying for months now to find a stainless frame and blued slide to make a second duo-tone and none are available (duo tone style)...Neither as complete firearm or frame, finding a blued slide isn't a problem as with a completely blued gun. I had emailed the contact person from the website and he confirmed that Llama is no more....
October 12, 2005, 12:18 PM
Is Astra Unceta still in business?
October 12, 2005, 02:51 PM
Star, on the other hand, IS out of business.
Which is too bad, because I really like my Star BM.
October 12, 2005, 03:22 PM
Is Astra Unceta still in business?
It's my understanding they went out of business in 1998 . Very unfortunate as they produced some well made pistols. I particularly liked their A-70 , and A-75 guns.
Star also made some nice guns , but I never did warm up to Llama or Rossi .
I am sure like most products there are those who have had good luck with each and some that haven't had any luck at all.
October 12, 2005, 08:28 PM
I hate to break it to you..But Llama is out of buisness until someone else buys their tooling. I've been trying for months now to find a stainless frame and blued slide to make a second duo-tone and none are available (duo tone style)...Neither as complete firearm or frame, finding a blued slide isn't a problem as with a completely blued gun.
You should have tried the above link, because they have parts (http://www.bersa-llama.com/parts_i45govt_duo.html) as well.
You cannot, however, just order a frame. You can still buy the dou-tone as a whole gun anyway, so unless you're trying to make a contrasting version (polished slide and blue frame with polished accents) that would be the easiest way to go.
October 12, 2005, 09:28 PM
Something must have changed after buying my Max-1 last year. I read up, hearing that they were bought out by their machinists, and started producing better quality guns. Did they go belly up again in the meantime?
Decent gun, once I get down to figuring out it's quirks, it might be worthy of a carry gun.
I have one of Sam's Stars. Good gun.
October 12, 2005, 09:44 PM
This is going to be a long post, but official document transcripts
will be presented to try to clarify hearsay and conjecture.
Is 'Llama" (Fabrinor Arma Corta y Microfusion SAL) non-operational?
Tooling and machinery aside, they have standing inventory for disposition:
The MAX II and MiniMAX II newly-advertised by their US distributor are not new models.
The Import Sports/SGS webpage is careful not to announce them as such.
The pistols will be new stock all right ...as reckoned in the US importer's warehouse.
Fabrinor took over Gabilondo & Co.'s debt-ridden 'Llama' operation in 2001.
Debts were due in 2002, and delayed relocation from Vitoria to a new plant
in Gojain meant they couldn't sell the old real estate in Vitoria, nor
manufacture/sell enough new product quickly to meet the debt deadline.
They begged the banks for an extension & got a one-year postponement
to 2003. They rescheduled again in 2003 for a 2004 due date.
Despite new income from the US market (Import Sports-Llama , SGS Firestorm),
Fabrinor saw fit to go public, selling shares to generate funds for debt retirement.
With the debt gone and US receipts rising, Fabrinor Llama would have been
in very good shape indeed.
The Fatal Mistake
Some of the new investors were mere speculators after a fast buck:
breaking up the company and then selling its assets piecemeal.
The key sale of Fabrinor's vacated Vitoria assets was being blocked,
so that they could sell it themselves AFTER Farbrinor collapsed.
To try to get out of this chokehold by malicious speculators,
Fabrinor wanted to re-convert itself into a limited partnership,
offering to buy back investor shares with promissory notes backed by
This was tricky stuff at best, and even decent investors cried foul,
threatening to take Fabrinor management to court in late 2004.
Fabrinor was forced to called a special/general shareholder meeting:
FABRINOR ARMA CORTA Y MICROFUSIÓN, S. A. L.
Junta general extraordinaria
Por acuerdo el Consejo de Administración, se convoca Junta general
extraordinaria de accionistas, que tendrá lugar el día 12 de enero del año 2005,
a las 13,30 horas, en el domicilio social, calle San Bartolomé, n.º 26, de
Legutiano (Álava), en primera convocatoria y, en segunda, para el día
siguiente en el mismo lugar y hora, si no hubiere concurrido el quórum legal
necesario. Será objeto de dicha Junta la deliberación y resolución de los
asuntos comprendidos en el siguiente
Orden del día
Primero.–Reducción de capital por pérdidas.
Segundo.–Ampliación de capital con cargo a créditos para cumplimiento de convenio.
Tercero.–Transformación en Sociedad Limitada.
Cuarto.–Redacción de nuevos estatutos.
Quinto.–Determinación de nuevo órgano de administración y elección de sus miembros.
Sexto.–Otorgamiento de facultades para elevar a públicos los acuerdos adoptados.
Séptimo.–Redacción, lectura y, en su caso, aprobación del acta de la reunión.
A partir de la presente convocatoria, cualquier accionista podrá obtener de la
sociedad, de forma inmediata y gratuita, todos los documentos que van a ser
sometidos a la aprobación de la Junta. Asimismo los accionistas podrán
examinar en el domicilio social los documentos requeridos legalmente, las
propuestas de acuerdos y los preceptivos informes emitidos por el Consejo de
Administración y pedir la entrega o el envío gratuitos de todos los documentos.
Legutiano, 1 de diciembre de 2004.
–Secretario del Consejo de Administración, José Antonio Sanz Merino.
That emergency shareholder meeting was held.
The shareholders said "no" to Fabrinor's planned reorganization and debt reshuffling.
The Courts Step In
Shareholders hauled Fabrinor to court, and Fabrinor hustled to get injunctions.
Vitoria-Gasteiz's Mercantile Court No. 1 swiftly gave an edict on Jan 19, 2005:
Juzgado de lo Mercantil nº1 de Vitoria-Gasteiz
El/la Secretario Judicial del Juzgado de lo Mercantil número 1 de Vitoria-Gasteiz,
en cumplimiento de lo dispuesto en el artículo 23 de la Ley Concursal (LC), anuncia:
Primero.–Que en el procedimiento número 27/04, por auto de fecha 19 de enero de 2005
se ha declarado en concurso voluntario al deudor Fabrinor,Arma Corta y Microfusión, S.A.L.,
con domicilio en calle San Bartolomé, polígono industrial Gojain, número 26,
Legutiano-Álava, y cuyo centro de principales intereses lo tiene en Legutiano.
Segundo.–Que el deudor conserva las facultades de administración y de
disposición de su patrimonio,pero sometidas éstas a la intervención de la
Tercero.–Que los acreedores del concursado deben poner en conocimiento de
la administración concursal la existencia de sus créditos en la forma y con los
datos expresados en el artículo 85 de la LC. El plazo para esta comunicación
es el de un mes a contar de la última publicación de los anuncios que se ha
ordenado publicar en el Boletín Oficial del Estado y en el/los periódicos de El
Cuarto.–Que los acreedores e interesados que deseen comparecer en el
procedimiento deberán hacerlo por medio de Procurador y asistidos de
Letrado (artículo 184.3 LC).
Vitoria-Gasteiz,19 de enero de 2005.–El/La Secretario Judicial.–4.439.
The court said above that Fabrinor still owned its assets only for so long as it took
to liquidate and pay off the banks and the shareholders, and get this:
Fabrinor couldn't make a move without explicit approval of the shareholders.
They couldn't buy, sell or make a paperclip if they wanted.
Fabrinor was now just a name, a shell, a placeholder.
The shareholders and banks were in control, and what they wanted
---what they still want--- is liquidation.
By May 2005, the courts were openly fishing for buyers:
El Juzgado de lo Mercantil de Vitoria-Gasteiz, anuncia:
1. Que en el procedimiento concursal número 27/04 referente al deudor
Fabrinor Arma Corta y Microfusión S.A.L., se ha presentado el informe
de la administración concursal, al que se refiere el Capítulo I del Título IV
de la Ley Concursal (LC), junto con el inventario de bienesy derechos
y la lista de acreedores. Dichos documentos pueden ser examinados por
los interesados en la Secretaría del Juzgado, así como obtener copias, a su costa.
2. Dentro del plazo de diez días, computado desde la última de las
publicaciones de este edicto que se publicará en el Boletín Oficial del Estado
y en el diario Deia, los interesados que se consideren perjudicados por
el inventario de bienes y derechos o por la lista de acreedores, podrán
presentar impugnaciones en este Juzgado de lo Mercantil.
3. Para hacerlo se necesita valerse de Abogado y Procurador.
4. El deudor no ha presentado propuesta de convenio.
Vitoria, 9 de mayo de 2005.
--El/la Secretario Judicial.--23.292.
That last part is just viciously comic:
"4. The indebted owner has not presented its agreement."
at the end of what is practically an announcement of auction, piecemeal,
of said owner's assets.
Last I heard (August-September) was that many factory assets had already
been physically parceled into auction lots, with several sales.
Theoretically someone buying Fabrinor's manufacturing assets wholesale,
could resurrect Llama. That is, if the buyer wanted to make guns.
All the banks and speculators wanted was the valuable Vitoria real estate,
on the very dirty cheap.
So, is Llama closed?
However, in business, the possible and the impossible shake hands everyday.
Nothing is forever. Stay tuned if you like, but you will need patience:
It took Fabrinor over eight years to realize its purchase of Gabilondo's LLAMA.
Fabrinor could be around for decades, doing nothing but signing deeds of sale
for small, odd lots of its extensive inventory and machinery.
That extensive standing inventory is what is creating some confusion:
It means there will be NIB Llama guns and parts in the pipeline for some time,
though the factory itself were to be levelled.
October 12, 2005, 09:53 PM
I know they have parts avail...it's been that way for awhile...If Llama is infact back in buisiness, then for some reason no one is able to aquire their guns...My local gun shops can't even order duo tones in from their distributors because according to them Llama is gone (and this info is as of mid sept when I bought my baby eagle)
Hope someone starts carrying them again...I want my matched pair :evil:
Until then, I'm saving up for my .50 cal :D
Write an email to the person at Import Sports...That'll tell you for certain..If I had the original email still that I sent, I'd put it here so you could see it....the way he had explained it to me was they would sell until they ran out of existing stock..then it's completely gone (least till someone else buys them)
October 14, 2005, 12:15 AM
The guys at Import Sports finally got back to me, and the factory is closed:(
It would seem that they need to update their website.
I am disappointed again. I always had a soft spot for Llama's. They offered a lot of gun for the money in my experience.
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.