Banning "assault pistol" in NJ


PDA






DontBurnMyFlag
October 12, 2005, 03:54 PM
This is the crap that passes as news. :banghead: Last I checked, not only is the Five-SeveN an expensive gun, you cant even purchase the FMJ ammo. And if you could, it would be expensive as hell.






6661731
NEWS
TRISTATE
N.J. senators seek a ban on powerful
assault pistol
The Five-SeveN pistol is small enough to fit into your pocket but packs a big
punch - its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest. One of the weapons was
recently pulled off the streets of Camden County, and New Jersey and New York
lawmakers want them out of the hands of the public for good.
New Jersey Democratic Sens. Jon Corzine and Frank R. Lautenberg, Sen.
Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., introduced a bill
Thursday that would make it illegal for anyone except a police officer or military
official to possess the assault pistol.
In November, the Homeland Security Department issued an "Officer Safety Alert"
regarding the pistol with the headline "body armor defeating handgun." The alert
said that the Trumbull, Conn., police department had seized such a pistol and
noted that its bullets were "advertised as being able to penetrate 48 layers of
Kevlar at 50 meters."
The lawmakers said there is no legitimate reason for members of the public to
own the gun.
"This is not a Second Amendment issue," Corzine said during a Washington
news conference. "Who needs one of these? The only reason is for violence."
The Protect Law Enforcement Armor Act would ban the sale, purchase and use
of the handgun and its ammunition by anyone other than a police officer or
military official. The bill would also prohibit the gun and ammunition from being
made in the United States.
Camden County Prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi urged lawmakers to support the bill,
calling it a test case.
A Five-SeveN gun was found on an alleged drug dealer in December during a
drug investigation in Camden County, Sarubbi said. The gun had been
purchased illegally in Philadelphia, he said.
Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence,
challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA
chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol
tested.
The NRA did not immediately return a call for comment.
Friday, March 4, 2005
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Page North Jersey Media Group providing local news, sports & classifieds for Northern New J... e 1 of 1
http://northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVsN2Y... 3/4/2005

If you enjoyed reading about "Banning "assault pistol" in NJ" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
DontBurnMyFlag
October 12, 2005, 03:57 PM
sorry this is all chopped up. but here is another article




WASHINGTON - The Five-SeveN pistol is small
enough to fit in a pocket, but it packs a big punch: Its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest.
One of the guns was taken from an alleged drug dealer
in Camden County in December, and now federal
lawmakers from New Jersey and New York want them
out of the hands of the public for good.
Sens. Jon Corzine and Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey and Sen. Chuck Schumer and Rep. Elio
York, all Democrats, yesterday introduced a bill that would make it illegal for anyone except a poli
military official to possess the pistol.
In November, the Homeland Security Department issued an "Officer Safety Alert" calling the pisto
defeating handgun." The alert said police in Trumbull, Conn., had seized such a pistol and noted
were "advertised as being able to penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar at 50 meters."
The lawmakers said there was no legitimate reason, such as hunting, for members of the public to
"This is not a Second Amendment issue," Corzine said. "Who needs one of these? The only reas
violence."
The Protect Law Enforcement Armor Act also would prohibit the gun and bullets from being made
States.
Camden County Prosecutor Vincent P. Sarubbi urged lawmakers to support the bill, calling it a tes
Philadelphia Inquirer | 03/04/2005 | Ban of small vest-piercing pistol sought Page 1 of 2.htm 3/4/2005

geekWithA.45
October 12, 2005, 04:01 PM
Corzine and Lautenberg combined know less about 2A than my dog.

Alex45ACP
October 12, 2005, 04:02 PM
Yay, more gun control incrementalism :rolleyes:

So once they're banned, the gun grabbers will say "Hey, some types of handgun ammunition in other calibers (practically all of them) can also penetrate body armor, we need to ban all guns that fire those calibers."

Zundfolge
October 12, 2005, 04:06 PM
The Five-SeveN pistol is small enough to fit into your pocket but packs a big punch - its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest.

The 5.7mm is a WEAK round that doesn't pack much of a "punch" at all ... it does pack a nice poke.

The 5.7mm penetrates "bulletproof" vests about as well as an icepick (and for the same reason ... its small).

Yay, more gun control incrementalism :rolleyes:

So once they're banned, the gun grabbers will say "Hey, some types of handgun ammunition in other calibers (practically all of them) can also penetrate body armor, we need to ban all guns that fire those calibers."
Yep, that seems to be the plan.

DontBurnMyFlag
October 12, 2005, 04:07 PM
alex45acp...your right on the money. the police are issued crap vests anyway.

I find it incredible that a criminal had a FN 5-7 to begin with. Those things are expenisive and the ammo is expensive as well too. Being a criminal, wouldnt you want something you can get cheap.

You cant go up to your local black market dealer and say...

"hey gimme some 5.7mm ammo."

"sorry, we only carry, .25 and.32"

The chances that the bad guys Five-seveN was loaded with HP rounds is high. And even they arent cheap.

50 Freak
October 12, 2005, 04:19 PM
At least in Cali, we can still buy the Five-SeveN. Looks like NJ is trying to catch up to Cali. :banghead: :banghead:

Six-Gun
October 12, 2005, 04:26 PM
It's only a matter of time before a T/C Encore in .223, .308, .30-06, etc. is banned because it, too, can penetrate a bulletproof vest.

These guys kill me with their "revelations." This gun has been publicly available for years with no issue. The ammor piercing version of the ammo can't be bought in a gun shop.

Carl N. Brown
October 12, 2005, 04:46 PM
If the antis kep crying The sky is falling! The sky is Falling! Wolf! Wolf!
maybe they will destroy themselves, finally. Campaigning against the
Florida Stand Your Ground law as "Shoot First" seems to have cost the
Brady Campaign a lot of credibility with the MainStreamMedia.
Somebody said the 0.17 Million Mom March is hanging up their sneakers.
Any follow up?

Kurush
October 12, 2005, 05:06 PM
The Five-Seven is an assault pistol that pierces armor and then cuts your heart in half! Even if it hits your toe! It has an incendiary heat-seeking tip, with a side of mercury!

Marshall and Sanow made up collected statistics showing it has a one-shot stop percentage of 150%! I heard it on the internet so it must be true!

Master Blaster
October 12, 2005, 05:16 PM
Like that armour piercing round the .30 -.30, it can shoot through a armoured limosine and a Fat Drunkin Lying Murderer, who is also a US Senator. :rolleyes:

Carl N. Brown
October 12, 2005, 06:18 PM
Senators Ted Kennedy and John Kerry tried to ban
.223 Remington, .30-30 Winchester and .308 Winchester
as cop killer bullets. If that had passed, how many of us
would have become instant felons not by doing anything
but by owning something?

R.H. Lee
October 12, 2005, 06:23 PM
If we were smart, we'd have the gunmakers throw out something whizbang like the Five-SeveN pistol every couple of years. Accompany it with a lot of hype and stories of awesome firepower. Let 'em ban it (after a good show of opposition). Repeat as needed.

Justin
October 12, 2005, 06:40 PM
On that front, I hear Remington is currently developing a version of the 870 that fires laser bolts.

rmgill
October 12, 2005, 06:52 PM
Get out of NJ! Nothing good will come of your continued residence in that state. Get out Now!

Dead
October 12, 2005, 07:17 PM
I was invited to a small private speech by lautenberg, where he stated "the deadly FN 5.7 pistol can go through 37 layers of kevlar at 200 yards.....we just took one off the streets in newark"... The recorders ONLY rolled during this part of the speech, the rest of it was mute. :cuss: :fire: :banghead:

Needlesss to say if you do not know about firearms, kevlar range, this seems damned scary stuff, if you you are capable of thinking for yourself, and know a little you know it is "horse poop".

Here is a picture of an 5.7x28, next to a 223

mons meg
October 12, 2005, 07:23 PM
Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence,
challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA
chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol
tested.


Uh, what kind of sick freak even suggests this kind of thing? :banghead:

dolanp
October 12, 2005, 07:24 PM
What are these 48 layers of Kevlar ??

This sounds like total hysteria.

Standing Wolf
October 12, 2005, 07:34 PM
This sounds like total hysteria.

Of course! That's all it is.

Lupinus
October 12, 2005, 07:51 PM
Last I checked without a ballistic plate insert, most hunting rifles could penitrate most vest's. I have seen that demonstrated on the one's the military use's. Good for handgun's, but agiasnt rifle's without the plate it wont help much to my understanding.

And it can't rip through the vest because it has the power. It can because t is small enough to force its way through the fiber's.

Hell give me an ice pick, with enough force I can put it right through a kevlar vest, but that would be considerable harder with something like a hunting knife. Something which normally would do a lot more damage then an ice pick.

What round is next? Ban on hunting rifle's because they will cut through a vest? How bout something liek a 22 magnum? (I would think 22 would do it with enough power, a 22 long might not have the punch), how about a .17?

Maybe any gun because there is no such thing as truly bullet proof, if it hits the vest right most gun's can go through it esspecialy from the side.

Last I checked it said the right to bare arm's shall not be infringed. Not the right to bare arm's so long as it can't go through body armor or put's you on par with what the military and goverment has.

R.H. Lee
October 12, 2005, 07:55 PM
Last I checked it said the right to bare arm's shall not be infringed. I agree.
http://images.windowsmedia.com/img/prov_a/300_80/pop/cov200/drg600/g689/g68982mejwy.jpg

Lupinus
October 12, 2005, 08:05 PM
git r dun!

fourays2
October 12, 2005, 08:13 PM
Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., introduced a bill
Thursday that would make it illegal for anyone except a police officer or military
official to possess the assault pistol.In November, the Homeland Security Department issued an "Officer Safety Alert"
regarding the pistol with the headline "body armor defeating handgun." The alert
said that the Trumbull, Conn., police department had seized such a pistol and
noted that its bullets were "advertised as being able to penetrate 48 layers of
Kevlar at 50 meters."
The lawmakers said there is no legitimate reason for members of the public to
own the gun.
"This is not a Second Amendment issue," Corzine said during a Washington
news conference. "Who needs one of these? The only reason is for violence."


so does this mean that the police need them for violence?

Lupinus
October 12, 2005, 08:15 PM
it is getting to the point they are going to tick one to many people off.

You can deal with a bunch of wanna be ganster's

Nothing compared to a bunch of back woods gun totting hick's.

....Or gun nut's in general

But the image of gun tooting hicks is just more fun

artherd
October 12, 2005, 09:53 PM
At least in Cali, we can still buy the Five-SeveN. Looks like NJ is trying to catch up to Cali.

Only via PPT, last I check it was not on 'da approved for new sale' list, so the only way to get one is for an out-of-stater to move in with one and then sell it to you.

Yeah, I want one :)

BostonGeorge
October 12, 2005, 10:14 PM
Friday, March 4, 2005

Am I the only one that noticed this?

Old news.....Next!

50 Freak
October 12, 2005, 10:23 PM
Only via PPT, last I check it was not on 'da approved for new sale' list, so the only way to get one is for an out-of-stater to move in with one and then sell it to you.

Art, Check again, it went on the list a month or two ago. OEM model though.

MechAg94
October 12, 2005, 10:56 PM
Ole Wayne of the NRA should get one of those vests designed to stop .308 rounds and test it.

DontBurnMyFlag
October 13, 2005, 08:30 PM
just to re-itterate. the majority of New jerseyans are uneducated when it comes to firearms. My one friend never imagined i could by a gun as big as the SKS...

it goes along the lines with when the AWB expired, people automatically though we would be able to by uzis and bazookas from convience stores. argh

DeseoUnTaco
October 13, 2005, 09:11 PM
Basically any pistol can defeat soft body armor with the right load. You would have to do tests on real body armor to find out, but I would think that any load that goes over 2000fps would be a danger to body armor. It's definitely possible to get 357 mag and 9mm going at that speed with fast powders and light bullets.

For extra penetrating ability, I would try solid copper slugs. That would be legal. If legality is not a concern, a steel penetrator is likely to defeat armor, even at lower velocities.

Armor works by allowing the soft lead slugs to deform. Steel isn't soft and doesn't deform.

Someone should make up some legal handloads and do some tests to prove how stupid it is to go after the Five-seveN. The 57 was designed to defeat military flak vest type things which are not the same as what cops wear.

Btw, all my comments above about how to defeat armor: I haven't actually tested any of this and no one publishes this sort of thing so it's all hypothetical for me. It's based on my understanding of what the soft armor is capable of and what it isn't, and the well-known fact that basically all rifle rounds will whiz through basically all soft body armor.

nfl1990
October 14, 2005, 10:57 PM
"The gun had been purchased illegally in Philadelphia"
Illegally, as in was purchased w/o regard for the law, now tell me what this law would have done in this case.

Remington788
October 15, 2005, 09:48 AM
Someone should make up some legal handloads and do some tests to prove how stupid it is to go after the Five-seveN

NOT a good idea, as the anti's will then say handloading should be illegal.

If you enjoyed reading about "Banning "assault pistol" in NJ" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!