Mythbusters...


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nbkky71
October 12, 2005, 11:14 PM
I was watching the tail-end of their show tonight and they were revisiting a myth about tracer fire blowing up the gas tank of a car.

According to their explanation, the colored tip of the tracer bullet was actually a coating of phosphorus. Upon firing the fiction of the bullet cutting through the air ignited the phosphorus, causing the bullet to glow.

Sheesh! :rolleyes:

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Sindawe
October 12, 2005, 11:19 PM
Hey, nobody can be correct 100% of the time. Well, nobody except me that is... :neener: IMAO they've done a lot of interesting, CORRECT firearms mythbusting that I can cut them a bit of slack now and again. Also, they have cute, smart females build team on the show this season. :D

jefnvk
October 13, 2005, 01:19 AM
What is it really?

Is this the appropriate place for this:
http://jefnvk.zapto.org/images/SV400031.JPG

tater_salad
October 13, 2005, 03:23 AM
I just saw an episode tonight where they busted the myth about how the movies portray someone getting shot and then flying back. The last test, they used a .50 rifle at short range and shot their dummy with a 1/2" thick steel plate attatched to his chest. Long story short, all the kinetic energy was transferred to the dummy (round got stuck in it's 'spine') and it still moved less than 2 inches. Basic physics here, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, IOW, there's no way a person being shot would fly back a foot or more, and the shooter would only get bumped an inch...

Kurush
October 13, 2005, 03:52 AM
What is it really?The fireworks are in the base of the bullet, the paint is *drumroll* ... paint.

at-home-daddy
October 13, 2005, 03:56 AM
Love that show (and not just because of the cute redhead). Best thing on TV (which isn't saying much, but still...).

Moparmike
October 13, 2005, 04:31 AM
Kari (the redhead) is one of those girls that I would give my left kidney for...Yowser!

Cosmoline
October 13, 2005, 04:51 AM
Yeah, they get things wrong sometimes, but I love 'em. They're techie FX guys--the opposite of the fussy and arrogant actors and the ones who actually make films work. I love that they've finally got some limelight after all this time.

Berek
October 13, 2005, 06:14 AM
Ok, they busted the .50BMG... what about hte .577 Tyrranosaur??? Hmmm???? (i just wanna see one fired...)

:D

Berek

EricO
October 13, 2005, 07:37 AM
Ahhh yes, Kari. ;) Is there anyone else on that show? :)
Tall, nice athletic figure, great smile and those cute freckles!
EricO

JamisJockey
October 13, 2005, 09:45 AM
They also referred to an M16 Mag as a 'clip' about a dozen times, and said tracer rounds were illegal. I figured that means they are illegal in Kalifornistan?

rico700
October 13, 2005, 09:54 AM
One of the few shows kids and I can agree upon! I must be getting old or haven't seen new episodes as I don't recall or didn't notice red head?? :eek:

Molon Labe
October 13, 2005, 10:00 AM
I just saw an episode tonight where they busted the myth about how the movies portray someone getting shot and then flying back. The last test, they used a .50 rifle at short range and shot their dummy with a 1/2" thick steel plate attatched to his chest. Long story short, all the kinetic energy was transferred to the dummy (round got stuck in it's 'spine') and it still moved less than 2 inches. Basic physics here, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, IOW, there's no way a person being shot would fly back a foot or more, and the shooter would only get bumped an inch...I've shot my .50 BMG rifle offhand. I didn't go "flying back," hence there's no reason to suspect a person hit with a .50 BMG round will "fly back."

JamisJockey
October 13, 2005, 10:01 AM
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/meet/meet_04.html

http://saturn5.com/darwin/beef/images/kari/06-kari_byron_shark_bikini_radio_belly_800x600.jpg

:D

rico700
October 13, 2005, 10:09 AM
I must have missed that episode. Thanks for the image :D

JamisJockey
October 13, 2005, 10:17 AM
She's in alot of episodes. I think she's been on the show about a year or so. Last night, she was the one holding the .30cal M1 Carbine.

AirForceShooter
October 13, 2005, 10:19 AM
did anyone catch the episode about how far a bullet can travel underwater?
They eneded up shooting a .50 into a swimming pool.

AFS

Yowza
October 13, 2005, 11:24 AM
I loved the one where they were trying to disprove the exploding scuba tank in the movie Jaws. Adam was sure there was no way that a .30-06 could penetrate through the bottom (where it's the thickest) of an aluminum scuba tank.

Rick

Lupinus
October 13, 2005, 01:04 PM
I always heard that when they fire a bullet through a gun for balistic testing, to get the barrel marking to compare it to one from a crime scene, they fire it into a pool of water.

Did I hear wrong?

Or did they jsut have the wrong angle or something?

Maybe if they had broken the surface tension of the water? I don't remember them doing that.

Carl N. Brown
October 13, 2005, 01:20 PM
Pistol bullets fired into water don't upset as much and
actually penetrate more than rifle bullets hitting water
at full muzzle velocity. Firing rifle bullets at over 2200
fps into water you may as well fire into cinderblocks.

Good question: how do they recover high power rifle
bullets for forensic comparison test?

cfabe
October 13, 2005, 02:30 PM
I'm a fan of the show, it's interesting to watch and while their methods are not always scientific, it's closer to reality than 99% of the other stuff you'll see on TV. I love to see guns get good airtime on TV, but the one thing that concerns me is it seems that they often emphasize that they need FBI or ATF or LAPD assistance with their gun stuff, as if to support the "only cops need guns" mindset.

middy
October 13, 2005, 02:49 PM
They eneded up shooting a .50 into a swimming pool.
Yeah, that was awesome. The entire natatorium got splashed by the impact of the .50 bmg into the pool... and the bullet disintegrated after a couple feet of water.

Great lesson in that episode: water is a very effective barrier against high powered rifles. Against handguns and shotgun slugs... not so much. :)

Daniel T
October 13, 2005, 03:24 PM
Kari (the redhead) is one of those girls that I would give my left kidney for...Yowser!

Kari is cute, but Scotty (tats and all) is way sexier. Why?

Knowedge and ability. Any cute girl that can fix my car better than I gets my vote. ;)

TMM
October 13, 2005, 04:10 PM
nahh, kari is much cuter than scotty. either way, makes the show twice as entertaining to watch...

and...

she's not an anti!

gas tank myth #2:
"here's your ammo"
"awesome!"

:D :D

~TMM

TMM
October 13, 2005, 04:16 PM
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/videogalleries/onlineexclusive/mythbuilders.html

a clip of Mythbusters online. enjoy. :D

~TMM

Lupinus
October 13, 2005, 04:28 PM
Good question: how do they recover high power rifle
bullets for forensic comparison test?

I know you can use balistic's jelly but that deforms the bullet as if it went into a body so I dont know if that would work. I would thing you would want an undeformed bullet to get the best look at it for marking's.

Maybe if they break the surface tension of the water? Think high diving. With flat water you will get hurt but if you turn on a pump that make's a stream, like a fountian, onto the water it breaks the surface tension and the high diver is uninjured. So perhaps if you broke the surface tension you could fire it.

Correia
October 13, 2005, 04:32 PM
Lupinus, that is ironic, since breaking the surface tension of water to lessen impact is one of the myths that they busted in another episode. :D

Dr.Rob
October 13, 2005, 04:45 PM
so did the tracer blow up the gas tank or not?

MechAg94
October 13, 2005, 04:48 PM
On that "Deadly Weapons" video tracers did not ignite the gas.

Phaetos
October 13, 2005, 08:38 PM
I'm gonna add to this. I just watched an episode where they were testing the myth of jumping into water to evade being shot at. Would the water throw the trajectory off or does it actually go straight down as in the movies? They put the ballistics gel into a contraption that allowed them multiple depths at what appeared to be about a 23 degree +/- entry angle. The 1st test was with a Black Power Civil War replica, 1000f/s they said. At 5 feet, the round ended up 25 feet AWAY from the gell target in the pool. At 3 feet, the round was in the gel. Next up, a .223 rifle with Full Metal Jacket(of course they didn't say which brand). At 5 feet, the round came apart completely when it hit the water. It just shattered into pieces before the gel. At 3 feet, a small bit of the round actually impacted the gel. Odd I thought. Then they brought in the M1 .30 caliber. Same results. The round completely shattered. Odd that this same gun passed straight thru bullet-proof glass in their tests. I am currently waiting for them to test the .50 cal to see what happens. They are claiming 3000ft/sec for it. oh my god! Jaime says "So the safety's off now?" The girl says "I would think so, yeh"! Where are the gun experts?! Didn't penetrate the gel at all. Fell apart at 3 feet. This is confusing to me. Why?

Lupinus
October 13, 2005, 08:56 PM
Lupinus, that is ironic, since breaking the surface tension of water to lessen impact is one of the myths that they busted in another episode
They are known for being wrong you know :neener:

Creeping Incrementalism
October 13, 2005, 10:27 PM
Ok, they busted the .50BMG... what about hte .577 Tyrranosaur??? Hmmm???? (i just wanna see one fired...)

:D

Berek

http://www.accuratereloading.com/index.html has video of people who mostly look inexperienced with elephant guns getting knocked over with a 577 Tyrannosaur (I'm not saying they go flying backwards, but rather that they lose their balance). Unfortunately, you now have to register on the forums to see the videos.

JohnKSa
October 13, 2005, 10:40 PM
video of people who mostly look inexperienced with elephant guns getting knocked over with a 577 Tyrannosaur That's the thing--they are experienced with elephant guns. The .577 has ballistics that are very similar to the .50BMG but out of a normal size & weight gun without a muzzle break the size of your head.

bamawrx
October 14, 2005, 12:11 AM
I enjoy the show, but they really need to hire me to help with all the gun episodes.


Dr bob, Tracer DID ignite gas tank at a distance. But up close the tracer would not set the gas aflame.

ps not explosion, just fire.

Kurush
October 14, 2005, 12:57 AM
Didn't penetrate the gel at all. Fell apart at 3 feet. This is confusing to me. Why?
There was just a big discussion about water and bullets in the general forum:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160272

Bad Words
October 14, 2005, 01:49 AM
Mythbusters did one episode where they determined that Archimedes' burning glass (He used mirrors to set a fleet of ships afire) wasn't possible.

MIT wanted to know if it was possible, too. They succeeded in setting fire to the ship in under 10 minutes.

Mythbusters also did one where they determined you couldn't get shocked by pissing on an electric fence because there would be too many gaps of air in the stream of urine. My cousin told me about this episode when we came across an electric fence. To his horror, my cousin proved mythbusters wrong on this one, too. The wire was about 18 inches from the ground and he had a good stream going due to having a couple 40's in him. Not sure what the specifics were on Mythbusters.

Lupinus
October 14, 2005, 02:52 AM
last time I checked when I take a leak with the possible exception of getting it going and when its about over it's a pretty solid stream heh

artherd
October 14, 2005, 05:17 AM
Kari with the M4 in the 'bullet knocks you back' eppisode = hot.

Carl N. Brown
October 14, 2005, 04:07 PM
Mythbusters opens their seasons with a Myth Revisited
show where they recheck themselves if viewers spot errors.
Veeerry unlike the big news media. Even though they do get
things wrong (the phosphorus as the paint on the nose
of an indendiary bullt [its a plug in the base of the bullet])
they have credibility with me because they admit they can
be wrong and us laypeople can be right.

dxkj21
October 18, 2005, 03:13 AM
Mythbusters opens their seasons with a Myth Revisited
show where they recheck themselves if viewers spot errors.
Veeerry unlike the big news media. Even though they do get
things wrong (the phosphorus as the paint on the nose
of an indendiary bullt [its a plug in the base of the bullet])
they have credibility with me because they admit they can
be wrong and us laypeople can be right.



but they were wrong on a revisit there, so now they need to revisit their revisit


They told us that the reason it caught on fire from further away is that the tip got to heat up lol

Adept
October 18, 2005, 03:58 AM
One thing to remember with the whole "getting knocked off your feet by a shot" thing: It doesn't take much to knock a person off balance, especially when caught by surprise. Also, the shock of the impact can be enough to throw someone off balance on it's own.

Added to that, the impact you feel against your shoulder from the recoil is not equal to the force the bullet impacts with. The weight of the weapon itself absorbs a lot of the force, and since the but of the weapon should be tucked in tight, there is no actual impact.

On topic: Mythbusters is an awesome show. Anyone else see the Chicken Cannon episode?

Lupinus
October 18, 2005, 04:01 AM
I found the gun knock back fishy as well.

And while off balance sure, maybe even light knock back. But flying across a room? Heck no unless it is from them stumbling back as a result of just getting a gut full of buckshot.

Kurush
October 18, 2005, 04:24 AM
from the recoil is not equal to the force the bullet impacts withThe force isn't equal, but the momentum is. Actually, the shooter gains a bit more momentum, because of the expelled gasses (super duper muzzle brakes notwithstanding)

artherd
October 18, 2005, 04:43 AM
Actually the shooter feels more due to the rocket-like effect of the hot gasses coming out of the barrel at 30,000psi *after* teh bullet has already been sent on it's merry way.

Anyway, getting knocked off balance or back 0.5" or so at the most is all that just about any shoulder-fired weapon will do to a person.


One thing to remember with the whole "getting knocked off your feet by a shot" thing: It doesn't take much to knock a person off balance, especially when caught by surprise. Also, the shock of the impact can be enough to throw someone off balance on it's own.

Added to that, the impact you feel against your shoulder from the recoil is not equal to the force the bullet impacts with. The weight of the weapon itself absorbs a lot of the force, and since the but of the weapon should be tucked in tight, there is no actual impact.

On topic: Mythbusters is an awesome show. Anyone else see the Chicken Cannon episode?

Dragun
October 18, 2005, 06:17 AM
.577 tyrannosaur being fired. 750gr bullet at 2400 fps. you can open it or download it. maybe this would knock a person off his feet. it did the shooter. pretty funny, http://www.filegone.com/vnj3

Carl N. Brown
October 18, 2005, 04:45 PM
If I got my physics right (no gaurantee):
The momentum (weight times velocity) is the opposite but equal reaction.

A 12 ga. slug weighs one ounce and has a velocity of 1600 ft/sec.
An 8 pound shotgun (128 ounces) would have a velocity of 1600/128 ft/sec
or about 14 ft/sec.*

Kinetic (impact) energy is mass times velocity times velocity (mv^2).
Kinetic energy of 1 ounce slug at 1600 ft/sec is 2480 foot/pounds.
Kinetic energy of 128 ounce shotgun at 13 ft/sec is 21 foot/pounds.
If the 1 ounce slug at 1600 ft/sec transfers all its energy with no
loss to a 180 pound Buster the Crash Test Dummy, Buster would have
rearward velocity of 0.55 feet/sec.

* I am calculating the ounce of slug only; to be accurate, I would have
to include the weight of the gas expelled from the barrel at 1600+ fps in
the calculation which would be a sizable part of the weight of the powder
charge: this would up the velocity and recoil energy of the shotgun
by a few percentage points.

SDC
October 18, 2005, 06:59 PM
When I'm firing a questioned firearm for samples, I fire it into a water tank that has about 6 feet of travel available before the bullet would hit the other end of the tank; the tank is angled downward so gravity will cause the bullet to roll downhill (into a basket for retrieval) once the water has stopped it, and most bullets will never get anywhere CLOSE to punching through the entire 6 feet of water (rifle or pistol). Most handgun rounds won't deform too badly in the tank, but some rifle rounds can be a real PITA to get decent samples from (mainly the centrefire "varmint" calibres; these have a tendency to come apart in the tank, leaving you with a handful of lead and copper scraps). For most centrefires, an ordinary "hunting"-style JSP (especially in a heavy bullet weight) will work just fine, though I'll usually have to cut some of the expanded material off the recovered bullet to look at the marks left on the bearing surface. Depending on the given gun/ammo combination, you can get very unusual or unexpected results; the last time I fired a Hi-Point Carbine for samples, 115-grain ammo simply would not grip the rifling, and they would strip straight through the bore. With 147-grain ammo, no problem.

RecoilRob
October 18, 2005, 09:18 PM
The weight of the powder charge is also involved in the recoil calculations and must be added to the projectile weight.

Even though it is responsible for the acceleration of the projo it too is taken from a dead stop to muzzle velocity when fired and so increases the recoil for the shooter vs. the remaining energy that the projo can deliver to the target.

dhoomonyou
October 18, 2005, 09:24 PM
Scottie Chapman
from her bio: In addition, Scottie has played bass guitar for several underground punk/noise bands including the Wizards of Ozzie, a group that performed "lounge" covers of Black Sabbath songs. Plus, she can belly dance and fire dance often at the same time.

Belly Dance & Fire Dance.
I love that show!!

redneck2
October 18, 2005, 09:37 PM
Mythbusters also did one where they determined you couldn't get shocked by pissing on an electric fence because there would be too many gaps of air in the stream of urine. My cousin told me about this episode when we came across an electric fence. To his horror, my cousin proved mythbusters wrong on this one, too. The wire was about 18 inches from the ground and he had a good stream going due to having a couple 40's in him. Not sure what the specifics were on Mythbusters.

I grew up on a dairy farm. TRUST ME. This isn't something you want to try at home

They are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!

I suspect the thought of having lots of volts invading your private parts made the stream a little "erratic"

SkyDaver
October 18, 2005, 09:40 PM
Maybe if they break the surface tension of the water? Think high diving. With flat water you will get hurt but if you turn on a pump that make's a stream, like a fountian, onto the water it breaks the surface tension and the high diver is uninjured. So perhaps if you broke the surface tension you could fire it.

The reason they spray the surface of the pool for the high divers is so they can see the surface.

There is enough time betwen divers that the surface gets still. If it's too still, you can't tell the difference between the surface and the bottom.

That makes for timing problems.

IZinterrogator
October 18, 2005, 09:51 PM
Scottie quit Mythbusters, but can now be seen on Monster Garage. Me, I'll stick with Kari. ;)

"here's your ammo"
"awesome!"
I watched that and thought to myself, "Self, I bet she would love to have a range day with you." :D

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