Veteran dragged from hospital with catheter still in him for drug crime


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Moparmike
October 13, 2005, 02:11 AM
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051013/D8D6TLMG0.html

By GENE JOHNSON

SEATTLE (AP) - An Army veteran who fled to Canada to avoid prosecution for growing marijuana to treat his chronic pain was yanked from a hospital by Canadian authorities, driven to the border with a catheter still attached, and turned over to U.S. officials, his lawyer says.

He then went five days with no medical treatment and only ibuprofen for the pain, attorney Douglas Hiatt said.

Steven W. Tuck, 38, was still fitted with the urinary catheter when he shuffled into federal court for a detention hearing Wednesday, Hiatt said.

"This is totally inhumane. He's been tortured for days for no reason," Hiatt said.

U.S. Magistrate Judge James P. Donohue ordered Tuck temporarily released so he could be taken to a hospital for treatment.

However, by the time Donohoe issued his order, King County Jail officials had received a detainment request from Humboldt County, Calif., so Tuck was not released Wednesday, Hiatt said.

"I can't believe we've run into another snag here," the lawyer said.

Tuck suffered debilitating injuries in the 1980s when his parachute failed to open during a jump, and those injuries were exacerbated by a car crash in 1990, Hiatt said. He said Tuck was using marijuana to treat his chronic pain.

In 2001, while he was living in McKinleyville, Calif., his marijuana operation was raided for the second time. He fled to British Columbia to avoid prosecution but asylum was denied.

Last Friday, he checked himself into a Vancouver hospital for prostate problems, and it was there that he was arrested.

Richard Cowan, a friend who runs the Web site marijuananews.com, said in a telephone interview from Canada that he was with Tuck at the hospital when Canadian authorities arrested him.

"I would not believe it unless I had seen it," Cowan said. "They sent people in to arrest him while he was on a gurney. They took him out of the hospital in handcuffs, put him in an SUV, and drove him to the border."

He was turned over to Whatcom County Jail officials, who called federal marshals. The marshals took him to the King County Jail in Seattle.

Though Tuck has taken morphine - as prescribed by doctors - for about 16 years to help with his pain, he was given no painkiller or treatment at the jail other than ibuprofen, Hiatt said. Tuck appeared emaciated in court, and Hiatt said he had been sick from morphine withdrawal.

A message left with representatives of the King County Jail was not immediately returned Wednesday. A spokesman with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Vancouver said he could not immediately comment on the case.

Tuck is charged federally with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. Donohue agreed to release him on the condition that he face the charge in the Northern District of California upon his release from the hospital.

The Supreme Court ruled in June that people who smoke marijuana because their doctors recommend it to ease pain can be prosecuted for violating federal drug laws, even in states like California that have laws permitting medical marijuana use.

Umm, OWWW. Having had a catheter, it hurts just to read that. But he smoked pot, so he is obviously an evil man who deserves all that the federal government can level at him... :rolleyes: :cuss:

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Justin
October 13, 2005, 02:25 AM
Mike, why do you hate America so much?

Moparmike
October 13, 2005, 02:29 AM
Huh? Is that supposed to be sarcasm? I will wait to hear an explanation before I put my opinion of that into words, but I will say that any other member of THR that has a history of SUPPORTING AMERICA and the FREEDOMS it stands for would be insulted. :mad:

That said, I am showing just how rediculous the drug laws are here, and what legnths are gone to to prosecute.

Ok, it was sarcasm. How to tell I need to go to bed...

Double Naught Spy
October 13, 2005, 11:35 AM
Tuck wasn't exactly growing marjijuana for his own personal use. He was part of a grower's club that had been raided multiple times and he faced multiple drug charges.

He is referred to as a veteran, but I don't know in what war he saw action. He apparently became disabled in a parachuting accident in 1987 while in the army. http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14035.shtml

Note that he apparently thinks he needs marijuana to remain alive and that not having it will kill him. I would like to see the medical research that substantiates not having pot will cause his death.

Strangely, I don't see how that if the accident disabled him that he would then be a Gulf War Veteran. Here he is claimed to be a Gulf Vet... http://www.counterpunch.com/gardner10092005.html

Also strangely, a spokesperson for Tuck seemed surprised that jail officials would not give Tuck cannabis. Imagine that.

Previously, charges had been dropped on another incident... 839 plants - Steven Tuck, caregiver garden for 120 patients, Humboldt Co. - charges dropped Aug 2000
http://cannabismd.org/foundation/majorprop215.php

With such an operation, it would be hard to consider that Tuck's growing of marijuana is simply for personal medicinal use.

It should be noted that he will likely face other charges beyond the drug charges. He obviously failed to make his court dates on the original charges when he fled to Canada. Flight to avoid prosecution isn't smiled upon in the courts too often.

So why did Canadian authorities nab Tuck and deport him back to the US? Simple. He broke their laws as well by overstaying his visa.

In the end, Tuck really is most guilty of something for which there are no charges, being stupid. California grewers knew that when CA allowed for 'medicinal marijuana' to be grown and used by people if prescribed by a doctor that California law did not nullify federal law. Duh! So, he got arrested multiple time and being the Einstein druggy, instead of going to court, Tuck fled to Canada on the premise of fishing. However, he let is visa lapse and so was arrested there and has been returned.

I don't know that Tuck is evil, but he is a stupid criminal. Strangely, he has not died while in jail even though he has been unable to get stoned.

wingnutx
October 13, 2005, 12:27 PM
Heads should roll over this.

Then again, heads should roll over the unconstiutional war on drugs and guns, but they don't.

Standing Wolf
October 13, 2005, 04:24 PM
Sounds like another Great Victory in the famous war on selected drugs.

DeseoUnTaco
October 13, 2005, 06:21 PM
Dude, if we throw enough very ill people in prison for growing plants in their own homes, we'll finally win the war on drugs! That's what's holding us back. It's sick people in chronic pain who the real menace to us.

Ok, now that I got the sarcasm out of my system...

We've been fighting this war for thirty years with no measurable progress. We've spent trillions of dollars on it. It has corrupted all of our institutions. We have sacrificed many of our freedoms and privacies for it. We have the largest prison system ever creatd. And it hasn't achieved a single thing. Drugs are just as available and just as cheap as ever. It's like a hydra. We cut off one head and two more spring up somewhere else (domestic meth production being the latest).

In the myth, Hercules stopped the hydra by applying fire to the stumps as he cut off the heads. In our case, there is only one kind of fire that has ever been shown effective in stopping drug use: summary execution of users and dealers. The Chinese and some other Asian countries have rid themselves of opium by doing that.

For those who support the drug war, that's the only way it can be won. Would you support a law that gives the police the power to do summary executions in drug cases? If you can't stomach that (and I know I can't) then give up on this hopeless war.

It has gone on for thirty years with ever-increasing budgets and with no success. What is going to be different in the next thirty years? When we come to the year 2035, are we going to be spending 25% of our GDP on the war and have 10% of our population in prison and yet drugs will still be available?

rick_reno
October 13, 2005, 06:32 PM
Praise the DEA! Praise the DEA! Praise the DEA!

It's only by strong action like this that we can win the war on drugs. Who knows, Bin Laden could have been hiding under that bed they dragged this doper from. He wasn't there, but he might have been.

Art Eatman
October 13, 2005, 07:01 PM
I don't see where it matters one iota if you are for or against using marijuana. That's irrelevant.

What's wrong with this story is the brutal way the guy was treated during the arrest. The guy would have been just as available to the RCMP the next day; or, if he sneaked home he'd have been picked up there. If they knew enough to catch him at the hospital, they knew enough to be able to get him from his home.

And a guy with a prostate problem isn't the world's most mobile person. BTDT.

Art

Standing Wolf
October 13, 2005, 08:22 PM
We've been fighting this war for thirty years with no measurable progress. We've spent trillions of dollars on it. It has corrupted all of our institutions. We have sacrificed many of our freedoms and privacies for it. We have the largest prison system ever creatd. And it hasn't achieved a single thing.

Wrong! Think of all the cops we're keeping in pay checks! Think of all the lawyers who've got work to do! Think of all the court clerks who...

deanf
October 14, 2005, 12:08 AM
Mike, why do you hate America so much?

How dare you?

To question a man's love of country with no basis whatsoever is really a discredit to you and this board.

Justin
October 14, 2005, 12:29 AM
Via dictionary.com:

i·ro·ny Audio pronunciation of "irony" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i·ro·nies

1.
1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
2. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
3. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.
2.
1. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
2. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
3. Dramatic irony.
4. Socratic irony.


Tim Cavanaugh is right, irony seems to be sounding its death rattle.

c_yeager
October 14, 2005, 02:28 AM
Tim Cavanaugh is right, irony seems to be sounding its death rattle.

One should consider the medium of communication that is being used before they criticize people for failing to catch a subtelty that it is incapable of conveying.

Sergeant Bob
October 14, 2005, 03:08 AM
The idiots who dragged him out with a catheter still in him shoud be drawn and quartered. The put his life at great risk by subjecting him to unsanitary conditions with a catheter in place. Catheters are one of the major causes of Sepsis, which could cause death in a matter of hours.


What are sepsis and severe sepsis?
Sepsis is a complex illness involving both infection and inflammation. Normally, the body's response to an infection is targeted to the site of the infection. With sepsis, the body's response, instead of being localized to the site of infection, causes symptoms to occur throughout the body (this is known as a systemic response).

As a result of this systemic response, a patient with sepsis often has a fever, and a faster than normal heart rate and breathing rate. Because "germs" may be found in the blood of patients with sepsis, doctors and nurses sometimes refer to the condition as a "blood infection" or "blood poisoning." While it may be difficult to tell when someone is developing sepsis, tests can be conducted at the hospital to detect the disease.

In some patients, the systemic response to infection may spin out of control, upsetting the body's state of balance and damaging one or more vital organs (heart, lungs, kidneys, or liver). This systemic response or "overreaction" to the infection and resulting organ damage is called severe sepsis and is often more dangerous than the initial infection itself. Sepsis can turn into severe sepsis very quickly, sometimes in a matter of hours. Between 28% and 50% of patients who develop severe sepsis die from the condition.

You may be familiar with the following conditions that are linked to infection, which can sometimes result in severe sepsis:
Influenza and pneumonia
Urinary tract infection
Meningitis
Appendicitis
Wound infection following injury, surgery or a burn


Who is at risk for severe sepsis?
Severe sepsis can result from any type of infection, even those initially considered minor, such as influenza or urinary tract infections. More than 750,000 people in the U.S. develop severe sepsis every year—exceeding the number of new cases of lung, breast, and colon cancer combined. Severe sepsis is more likely in people who:
Have been admitted to the hospital with a serious disease
Are very young or old
Have a compromised (weak) immune system
Have had a wound or injury, such as a surgical wound, a burn, or a gunshot injury
Have an IV (intravenous) line for infusion of medications ("IV drip")
Have a catheter to drain the bladder
Are addicted to alcohol or drugs

http://www.sepsis.com/family_friends/understanding.jsp


Severe Sepsis came within about 10 minutes of killing me. If he had developed Sepsis while those idiots were jerking him around he might be dead now. :fire:

Moparmike
October 14, 2005, 03:56 AM
Tuck wasn't exactly growing marjijuana for his own personal use. He was part of a grower's club that had been raided multiple times and he faced multiple drug charges.And?

If I grow tobacco for myself and a few friends who enjoy a fine blend out of their pipe, is there a crime in that? If I charge them a small fee for my money and time, should I be locked up for tax evasion? For not having a business license? One plant for another.

gunsmith
October 14, 2005, 05:39 AM
but this medical marijuana stuff is just a bunch of malarky.
there was "medical alcohol" during prohibition too, I wonder why doctors no longer "prescribe" whiskey?

weed should just be legal, the "war on drugs" nearly ruined my life and turned a conservative 15 year old kid (me) into a liberal for 25 years!

enough allready!

ps , i don't smoke that crap any more I am totally clean and sober:D

c_yeager
October 14, 2005, 06:23 AM
The idiots who dragged him out with a catheter still in him shoud be drawn and quartered. The put his life at great risk by subjecting him to unsanitary conditions with a catheter in place. Catheters are one of the major causes of Sepsis, which could cause death in a matter of hours.


Well, depending on the procedure he had done regarding his "prostate problems" the removal of the catheter may not have been an option at the time. *IF* that is the case then leaving it in place was appropriate. It may sound odd but one is less likely to develop sepsis in a jail cell than in a hospital (AKA the dirtiest most disease ridden place known to mankind).

stevelyn
October 14, 2005, 07:17 AM
All Hail another "Victory" in the War on (some) Drugs.

Justin
October 14, 2005, 12:06 PM
One should consider the medium of communication that is being used before they criticize people for failing to catch a subtelty that it is incapable of conveying.

My stance on personal liberty is well documented as is my sarcastic sense of humor. Nor was there anything terribly subtle about my post. Seriously slinging accusations of "hating America" is something I'm happy to leave to Bill O'Reilly and Michael Moore.

Bob R
October 14, 2005, 12:24 PM
The put his life at great risk by subjecting him to unsanitary conditions with a catheter in place. Catheters are one of the major causes of Sepsis, which could cause death in a matter of hours.


As a matter of fact, there are many, many people who live day to day with a urinary catheter in place. These people go about their daily business every day with the cath in place, and draining to a leg bag. Then there are the many people who must self cath every time thay need to empty their bladder. While not the most sanitary method, many of them will reuse the same cath over and over, cleaning it with soap and water between uses (I hope). Many of those I have seen carried around in a ziplock bag.

Just my 2 cents worth on indwelling urinary catheters.

bob

TexasRifleman
October 14, 2005, 12:31 PM
How dare you?

To question a man's love of country with no basis whatsoever is really a discredit to you and this board.

Talk about someone that hasn't been taking their meds...... :evil:

Just my 2 cents worth on indwelling urinary catheters.

Some things I just don't need to know.

rick_reno
October 14, 2005, 01:07 PM
Just my 2 cents worth on indwelling urinary catheters.


Got any pictures? :p :p

benEzra
October 14, 2005, 01:15 PM
there was "medical alcohol" during prohibition too, I wonder why doctors no longer "prescribe" whiskey?
Ummm, ever taken Nyquil? :scrutiny:

A LOT of medications are alcohol-based.

BTW, my 6-year-old son has been prescribed medical morphine multiple times at Children's Hospital Boston (with the DEA's approval, I might add), and once went through full-blown cold-turkey morphine withdrawal when he was three years old. But that beats the heck out of the alternative, which would have been him feeling the jagged halves of his wired-shut sternum grinding together with every breath.

Unfortunately for the guy in this story, the DEA apparently considers cannabis MUCH more dangerous than morphine...

FWIW, my wife read the first couple of paragraphs of the story over my shoulder, and I commented that the authorities probably wouldn't have treated a convicted murderer that badly. Her reply was, "That's because murder is not a political crime." She may have a point...inhumane treatment of low-level drug users "sends a message," I suppose...

deanf
October 14, 2005, 02:40 PM
irony seems to be sounding its death rattle.

If you're going to write things on an internet forum and expect them to be interpreted in a way different that their plain meaning, then you need to use the tools provided to you to change their meaning: emoticons, etc. And if you don't find an emoticon that fits, you make up your own.

For example:

this is meant to be interpreted in a way different than its plain meaning

This would save everybody so much trouble.

My stance on personal liberty is well documented as is my sarcastic sense of humor.

Well it may be well documented, but that doesn't mean it's well known. I've been around here and TFL since near the beginning, and your name doesn't ring a bell.

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