What again is the point of background checks/waiting periods?


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grimjaw
October 14, 2005, 12:51 AM
So I recently moved to WA to OH. I bought several handguns while in OH, and was only required to fill out the lovely yellow form. However, it's more difficult to get a concealed carry license in OH, so I waited until I moved to WA.

So I buy my first handgun in WA, and there's a five day waiting period. The handgun is a single action, six shot, .22 revolver.

I already own nine handguns of equal or greater caliber. What does a waiting period for this (or any) handgun accomplish?

I'm sure this has been rehashed over and again on this forum, but I thought it was kind of silly. I could shoot 1000 rounds between now and next Friday, and the waiting period wouldn't have accomplished a blessed thing.

jmm

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KriegHund
October 14, 2005, 12:57 AM
Waiting period, i cannot see the reason it it.

So a criminal will suddenly wait 5 days to do his plan? or perhaps he will buy the gun five days BEFORE he commits it.

Maybe its to prevent impulse killing...oh...wait...he either already has a gun or a knife or a baseball bat or a car.

backgrounds checks...no comment.

carp killer
October 14, 2005, 01:04 AM
What does a waiting period for this (or any) handgun accomplish?


It gets the American public use to the idea that laws controlling firearms are harmless inconvienences. After all, you eventually will get your gun, right? What's a little wait?

Remember the frog in the pot............

Rob1035
October 14, 2005, 01:06 AM
According to Larry Elders, waiting periods are there so law abiding citizens can be vulnerable for a period of time.....I tend to agree.


So a criminal will suddenly wait 5 days to do his plan? [snip]

you forget, only law abiding citizens go through waiting periods and background checks. Criminals get to cut through the red tape.

Lennyjoe
October 14, 2005, 01:10 AM
The migraters from Cali brought that law up with them.:rolleyes:

Scottmkiv
October 14, 2005, 01:28 AM
I think the antis know that the more of a hassle it is to own firearms, the fewer people will buy them. Then, they make up some reason to justify their pointless hassles.

Zundfolge
October 14, 2005, 01:40 AM
The stated purpose is so that someone doesn't "snap" and go buy a gun and kill people ... yeah, pretty silly, and pretty pointless.


The real reason for mandatory background checks is so that some day they can stop people from buying guns by shutting down the background check system (right now they are required to automatically "pass" you if it takes more then 72 hours for the check. If they can do away with that then they will succeed ... I expect the next step after that will be to suspend background checks during times of "crisis", then there will be intermittent "blackouts" and eventually a complete shutdown of the system).

The real reason for waiting periods is to get us used to waiting periods (and eventually X guns in Y time restrictions) ... I believe that eventually the plan is to increase the waiting period from 5 days to 10 to 30 to 60 to 90 to 365.



Its called Death by a Thousand Cuts.

The more difficult they make it for people to buy and own guns, the less people will ... the less people buy and own guns the less people care about gun rights and the easier it will be to repeal the 2A (or "regulate" it out of existance).

Alex45ACP
October 14, 2005, 01:55 AM
Yup. It's just another step in gun control incrementalism.

grimjaw
October 14, 2005, 02:08 AM
I may not agree with it, but the background check seems more useful than the waiting period. I don't know if I'd had my concealed pistol license if could have skipped the waiting period or not. That statutes are probably different.

I just found it a little ridiculous.

jmm

afasano
October 14, 2005, 02:42 AM
I think the antis know that the more of a hassle it is to own firearms, the fewer people will buy them. Then, they make up some reason to justify their pointless hassles.

Everyone needs to fill out a form too, so when congress, the president and the court get on the same page they can finally round them up.

0007
October 14, 2005, 02:50 AM
Harassment of law-abiding citizens...

Lupinus
October 14, 2005, 02:50 AM
Im fine with a background check. But felonies should be devided into different catagory's when it comes to whether yo ucan buy a gun or not. If I have a felony for something liek speeding, that shouldn't disqualify me from buying a gun. If I have a felony for anything non-violent, I should be able to buy a gun. Now if I beat someone half to death with a wrench, I should not have a gun. If I beat someone half to death with anything, I should not have a gun.

Background check I am fine with. There should be a license program so that you can by-pass it if you want to. Getting it would be a convience for speeding up the process nothing more, you could go the current route and have a backround check done everytime you buy a gun.

But waiting period's? Waiting period's are stupidity. There is no reason to make me wait around to get my gun if I am licensed or have cleared a background check. All it does is annoy people and make the process one more step of annoyance so less people will bother buying a gun. If I want to kill someone and didn't own a gun I can think of much simplier cheaper and easier ways to do it then getting in my car driving to the gun shop and shelling out a few hundred buck's for a gun then driving all the way back and hoping my victem is still there.

Maybe next there will be a waiting period on kitchen knive's. If oy udon't already own a gun picking up a kitchen knife would be far easier then findign a gun at a gun shop.

Nail Shooter
October 14, 2005, 08:38 AM
If someone wants to kill a spouse that badly ("crime of passion") I'm sure the urge will come up again after the waiting period is over and they have the gun--same w/ robbing a bank etc.

Absolutely no logic or way to defend these asinine laws for people who already have a gun in their possession.

TrapdoorBilly
October 14, 2005, 09:02 AM
(right now they are required to automatically "pass" you if it takes more then 72 hours for the check. If they can do away with that then they will succeed ... I expect the next step after that will be to suspend background checks during times of "crisis", then there will be intermittent "blackouts" and eventually a complete shutdown of the system).


If you are talking NICS the 72 hours you reference is actually 3 business days. Saturdays, Sundays and holidays are not business days so if you have a Friday or Monday holiday they actually have 6 days or 144 hours. Also it is not an automatic approval, the firearm may be released with a status of no resolution. We frequently get calls after the 3 business days with a denial. If the firearm has been picked up this has to be reported and the information is passed on to the local ATF folks.

As to the times of "crisis", every time we get a system down notification I turn on FOX news to see if anything is going on, so I do think your suspicions there have some merit.

Get ready for a new and "improved" form 4473 coming to you Monday October 17th. :rolleyes:

Janitor
October 14, 2005, 09:12 AM
Background check I am fine with. There should be a license program so that you can by-pass it if you want to. Getting it would be a convience for speeding up the process nothing more, you could go the current route and have a backround check done everytime you buy a gun.
I believe that giving them time for a "normal" background check is the actual primary legal reason for the waiting period.

I think the stated reason might be so that any crimes of passion would be commited with a garrot, knife or credit card rather than have someone purchase a gun to commit the crime.

I believe the real, underlaying honest reason is one people keep bringing up here, and that's creeping incrementalism. Get the fenceline sitting majority used to these small thefts of rights from the public and they may not notice it happening.

WRT "licenses to buy" - In MN, you can get a buy permit from your local police department that's good for a year. You'll get the card in five days after making the (simple) application. With that, there is no waiting period (other than the standard NICs check). A CCW license can be used the same way.

Zach S
October 14, 2005, 09:22 AM
Speaking of the new 4473s, why did they change the color? White forms just doesnt have the same ring to it as yellow forms did.

Molon Labe
October 14, 2005, 09:38 AM
Waiting periods are simply harassment of gun owners. Pure and simple.

Want to know something that's really ridiculous? Let's say you already own a handgun, and you wish to purchase another. You would think they would be exempt you from the 5-day waiting period if you can prove you already own a gun. But this is not the case; you are subjected to the 5-day waiting period no matter what. :rolleyes:

TrapdoorBilly
October 14, 2005, 09:40 AM
Speaking of the new 4473s, why did they change the color? White forms just doesnt have the same ring to it as yellow forms did.

I guess so 'we' dummies could tell the new one from the old one. :D

Or better yet, something else to gig you on you next inspection. White used before the 17th, yellow after the 17th.

jamz
October 14, 2005, 09:46 AM
I think it's because guns are inherently evil and the guns themselves need five days to "cool off" before they go out on their own and randomly start shooting people once they've escaped the confines to the gun store.

Heavan only knows what my AR15 is capable of if it wasn't locked in my safe, banging to get out all the time. Thank goodness for the five day waiting period I had to undergo!

Oh wait, I just remembered, I didn't have to. :)


-James

Mad Man
October 14, 2005, 09:58 AM
According to the ACLU:

http://www.aclu.org/ReproductiveRights/ReproductiveRights.cfm?ID=9045&c=143


Government-mandated delays serve no purpose other than to make obtaining an abortion more difficult, dangerous, and expensive for the women who are least able to bear the burden of an unwanted pregnancy. The harm of such restrictions is felt most by those who have the fewest resources poor women, minors, rural women, working women without insurance or sick leave, and battered women.


For some reason, they don't apply that logic to other choices people might make.

Lupinus
October 14, 2005, 11:26 AM
I believe that giving them time for a "normal" background check is the actual primary legal reason for the waiting period.
Well in state's with no waiting period you can go to the store select your gun and get it later the same day to my knowlage.

Speaking of the new 4473s, why did they change the color? White forms just doesnt have the same ring to it as yellow forms did
White has a psychological bonus. A yellow form get's people's hampster wheel going that their right's are being pissed on.

For some reason, they don't apply that logic to other choices people might make.
You honestly expect the ACLU to apply logic to anything other then their nutty way's?

Rob1035
October 14, 2005, 11:38 AM
FWIW, in NC, a CCW skips the background check and waiting period involved with pistol permits, so that is a step in the right direction, ie streamlining the process.

XLMiguel
October 14, 2005, 11:48 AM
Well, I found waiting periods to be helpful in that it gives me time to thoroughly refine my plan so's I won't get caught iffen I absolutely, positively gots to shoot someone/something with a caliber I don't already own:rolleyes: :scrutiny: :neener:

The CDC did a study in 2003 (available at their website) that studied 51 'gun control' strategies that show the none of them had any measureable effect on gun-related crime. Hey, a thug's gonna do what a thug's gonna do, and the reason we call them 'criminals' is because . . . . they don't obey the law. Gun control laws only affect the law-abiding.

rick_reno
October 14, 2005, 12:10 PM
I don't buy enough guns to know anything about waiting periods - but is it possible they went from yellow 4473's to white to avoid the fading problems colored paper has?

rick_reno
October 14, 2005, 12:11 PM
I don't buy enough guns to know anything about waiting periods - but is it possible they went from yellow 4473's to white to avoid the fading problems colored paper has?

Old Dog
October 14, 2005, 01:27 PM
Of course, Grimjaw, once you get your Washington CPL, you won't have a waiting period ... not that this helps you now ...

I think by now, most states have figured out that the "cooling off" period that was one of the original intents of the waiting period, has ended up causing more deaths ... witness all the battered women who were killed by ex-partners because they weren't allowed to obtain a handgun with their restraining orders (which obviously didn't restrain their murderers at all).

MikeIsaj
October 14, 2005, 01:32 PM
It's so when you get released from your overnight jail stay for domestic violence you cannot stop at the gun store and buy a gun, buy ullets, learn to shoot and then go kill the $*&^@ that called the cops. It also gives the guy a five day opportunity to finish the beating before the woman can get her gun and defend herself.

Actually it's because your state is too cheap to do insta-check.

TrapdoorBilly
October 14, 2005, 10:53 PM
I don't buy enough guns to know anything about waiting periods - but is it possible they went from yellow 4473's to white to avoid the fading problems colored paper has?

Doubt that has anything to do with it. They are still readable.

Mad Man
October 15, 2005, 12:14 AM
The CDC did a study in 2003 (available at their website) that studied 51 'gun control' strategies that show the none of them had any measureable effect on gun-related crime. Hey, a thug's gonna do what a thug's gonna do, and the reason we call them 'criminals' is because . . . . they don't obey the law. Gun control laws only affect the law-abiding.


I don't suppose you have the URL to that study?

DMK
October 15, 2005, 12:54 AM
Madman, the link to the report is about halfway down this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=46012

Sunray
October 15, 2005, 01:08 AM
"...What again is the point of background checks/waiting periods?..." It annoys law abiding citizens. Nothing more. A new shooter might change his mind about getting into shooting if there's enough BS. Up here, it costs about $500Cdn to do all the useless courses(taught by unqualified people) and get the equally useless permits. Plus mandatory trigger locks(at $10-$15Cdn each) or a safe. The number of new shooters/hunters is dropping as a result.

Sir Aardvark
October 15, 2005, 02:08 AM
The waiting period is just the FIRST step in keeping you from getting your guns.

California first started with the 14 day waiting period (now down to 10 days).

Then, they instituted the one handgun every 30 days rule.

Along with the "Assault Weapon" ban, the .50 BMG ban, and the "High Capacity Magazine" ban this place sucks for gunowners!.

I'm just waiting to see what more nonsense this place can cook up, and you know that other states are looking at California and thinking "Hey, that just might work here too".

Lupinus
October 15, 2005, 02:27 AM
Iagree, it is mostly to deture people from getting into firearm's or getting more of them.

California first started with the 14 day waiting period (now down to 10 days).
Quote in the right direction at least. Do like the Korean shop owner's and get your gun's before you need them. Isn't going to keep a criminal from getting one. Last I checked when you buy a gun from a trunk on a dark corner there is no waiting period.

Then, they instituted the one handgun every 30 days rule.
Im moving to SC soon so I have been checking out their law's more then the FL one's as I wont be living here much longer so as far as buying I havn't looked much. But SC has a one handgun every week? Least that is how I remember reading it. Someone from SC feel free to correct me.

Personaly that's just as much bull as the waiting period's.

Only way to change it though is to be active. The liberal agenda gain's so much ground because they are willing to stand and scream at the top of their lung's. While in general the majority don't say or do much and are slowly but surly, esspecialy their children, are converted to their side.

Waitone
October 15, 2005, 04:08 AM
IIRC there is no limitation as to the number you can buy in a week. I think the only provision is if you buy 2 or more at a time you get a quick once over by bATFE. The once over being a quick look see to make sure you aren't associated with unsavory societal elements. Nothing in the statutes, just an informal thingy.

Matthew748
October 15, 2005, 07:39 AM
The only point of waiting periods is to make acquisition a hassle and discourage ownership. Case in point, when I lived in northern Illinois the 24 hour wait on long guns and 72 hour wait on hand guns screwed up many a deal I saw at gun shows. I would see something on the last day, but would have to pass on purchasing because the distance I would have to travel to pick the gun up after the waiting period was too great. Usually the dealer would be from southern Illinois, but sometimes they were from other states like Tennessee or Kentucky. It seems like a clear cut state of interfering with inter-state commerce to me. Just don’t expect the .gov to do anything about it this time.

Standing Wolf
October 15, 2005, 10:12 PM
What does a waiting period for this (or any) handgun accomplish?

That's just government's way of reminding you you exercise your civil rights at its pleasure.

Mr_Moore
October 15, 2005, 10:29 PM
The waiting period gives a guy several more days worth of opportunity to kill you.

In PA, we go to a gun store, we buy a gun, gun store runs a computer background check, we go home with the gun.

We get the CCW in the same manner.

It's nice to live in PA.

ceetee
October 15, 2005, 11:42 PM
Up here, it costs about $500Cdn to do all the useless courses(taught by unqualified people) and get the equally useless permits.



So that's like... what? $50 USD or something? :neener:












I'm kidding! I'm kidding! Really...

thorn726
October 16, 2005, 04:03 AM
it sorta made sense when the background check actually took a few days.
now its laughable. really amusing like a couple weeks ago my buddy pulls a move
most of you guys pull all the time=
went in to buy ammo, walked out with a waiting slip......

as if he didnt already have umpteen million guns at home already.

it realy is senseless for folks already in the computer to have to wait

TrapdoorBilly
October 16, 2005, 07:12 AM
^

Are you saying that they do a background check in CA for the purchase of ammunition?

Bobshouse
October 16, 2005, 12:35 PM
The migraters from Cali brought that law up with them.:rolleyes:

Least they only payed half attention...California has a 10 day waiting period..:neener:

The waiting period is the least of California gun owners problems, now they are talking about serializing bullets...

They have already developed an "approved" gun list, banned 50 cal guns, require loaded chamber indicators and built in gun locks. They tried to "hide" ammo, but our great govornor vetoed that bill and became an instant "hero"...whoopiteedoo!

Now they are trying to ban handguns in San Francisco City and County.

Werewolf
October 16, 2005, 01:27 PM
That's just government's way of reminding you you exercise your civil rights at its pleasure.Which actually makes those civil rights really civil privelidges now doesn't it! :fire:

I know... a right is a right is a right - whether it's restricted by government or not, according to the purists.

But tell that to all the people that should have or want a firearm and don't because the government says that they cannot! They still don't have a gun, ipso facto they don't have the right to keep and bear arms.

What is trumps pretty words every day of the week.

atomchaser
October 16, 2005, 02:39 PM
It all about making it more difficult to buy thereby reducing ownership and future resistance to more restrictions. I know a local gun shop owner who claims he loses a not insignificant number sales when folks find out that they can't take the handgun with them right away.

jacobtowne
October 16, 2005, 02:57 PM
"Well in state's with no waiting period you can go to the store select your gun and get it later the same day to my knowlage."

Massachusetts has never had a waiting period. I can write a check and walk out with a handgun then and there. There is no limit to the number of handguns you may buy in any given time period.
We've gotten a couple of things right. (Not many, unfortunately.)
JT

Brian Dale
October 16, 2005, 03:17 PM
Werewolf,They still don't have a gun, ipso facto they don't have the right to keep and bear arms.
Not exactly--their rights are being violated. Right now.

So why waiting periods and background checks? It's simple, really:

Those with the power to make people jump through hoops like to make people jump through hoops.

Werewolf
October 16, 2005, 08:39 PM
They still don't have a gun, ipso facto they don't have the right to keep and bear arms.
Not exactly--their rights are being violated. Right now. This is a difference in viewpoint that IMO cannot ever be resolved.

One group believes that a right is a right is a right even if those with power can and do restrict or even prohibit the exercise of that right. A very unpragmatic and angels dancing on the head of a pin view.

The other group believes that a restricted action becomes a priveledge and a prohibited action becomes - well - nothing.

In real life a right that cannot be exercised is no right at all and if restricted is no better than a privelidge therefore it is for all practical purposes no different from a privelidge and is therefore a privelidge.

Personally I ascribe to the 2nd viewpoint and just cannot relate to the point of view of the other.

Gameface
October 17, 2005, 06:18 PM
One range employee I talked to said that the waiting period was devastating to gun shops. As he put it, guns are often an impulse buy, and the waiting period gives the old ball and chain a chance to tell you that you can't have it:(

Ever wonder why there is such a lack of good independantly-owned gun shops? Maybe it's the waiting periods.

LaVere
October 18, 2005, 08:26 AM
Has not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the
8 years immediately preceding the date of application:

Failing to stop when involved in a personal injury accident (257.617a)
Operating Under the Influence 2nd offense (257.625(1)(8)(b))
Drunk driving, commercial vehicle (257.625m(4))
Reckless driving (257.626)
Driving on while suspended or revoked (257.904(1)) (punishable
as a second or subsequent offense)
Operating aircraft with alcohol with prior conviction (259.185)
Hindering or obstructing weights and measures enforcement officer (290.629)
Hindering or obstructing weights and measures enforcement officer (290.629)
Hindering, assaulting, or committing bodily injury upon
director or authorized representative of the Motor Quality Fuels Act
(290.650)
Operating an ORV under the influence, second or subsequent offense (324.80334(5) or (6))
Operating a snowmobile under the influence with prior conviction (324.82127)
Operating a vessel under the influence, second or subsequent offense (324.80176)
Possession of a controlled substance (333.7403)
Operating a locomotive under the influence (426.353 (4))
Displaying sexually explicit materials to minors (722.677)
Assault or domestic assault or aggravated (750.81)
Aggravated assault or aggravated domestic assault (750.81a)
Entering without breaking (750.115)
4th degree child abuse (750.136b)
Accosting, enticing, or soliciting, a child for immoral purposes (750.145a)
Vulnerable adult abuse (750.145n)
Solicitation to commit a felony (750.157b)
Impersonating a sheriff, conservation officer, coroner,
constable, or police officer (750.215)
Illegal sale of a firearm or ammunition (750.223)
Illegal sale of a self-defense spray (750.224d)
Sale or possession of a mechanical knife (750.226a)
Improper transportation of a firearm (750.227c)
Failure to have a pistol inspected (750.228)
Accepting a pistol in pawn (750.229)
Failure to register the purchase of a firearm or a firearm component (750.232)
Improperly obtaining a pistol, making a false statement on an
application to purchase a pistol, or using false identification to
purchase a pistol (750.232a)
Intentionally aiming a firearm w/o malice (750.233)
Intentionally discharging a firearm w/o malice (750.234)
Possessing a firearm on prohibited premises (750.234d)
Brandishing a firearm in public (750.234e)
Possession of a firearm by a person less than 18 years of age (750.234f)
Intentionally discharging a firearm aimed without malice causing injury (750.235)
Parent of a minor who possessed a firearm in a weapon free school zone (750.235a)
Setting a spring gun or other device (750.236)
Possessing a firearm while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drug (750.237)
Weapon free school zone violation (750.237a)
Indecent exposure (750.335a)
Stalking (750.411h)
Reckless, careless, or negligent use of a firearm resulting in injury or death (752.861)
Reckless, careless, or negligent use of a firearm resulting in property damage (752.862)
Reckless discharge of a firearm (752.863a)
Violation of a law of the United States, another state, or a
local unit of government of this state or another state substantially
corresponding to a violation described above


13. The applicant has not been convicted of one of the following in
this state or elsewhere in the 3 years immediately preceding the date of
application:
Operating under the influence (257.625)
Refusal of commercial vehicle driver to submit to a chemical test (257.625a)
Negligently fails to comply-Ignition interlock device (257.625k)
Circumventing an ignition interlocking device (257.625l)
Operating a commercial vehicle with alcohol content (257.625m)
Operating an aircraft under the influence (259.185)
Operating an ORV under the influence (324.81134)
Operating an ORV having consumed a controlled substance (324.81135)
Operating a snowmobile under the influence (324.82127)
Controlled Substances (333.7401 333.7461)
Operating a locomotive under the influence (462.353)
Disorderly person (750.167)
Embezzlement (750.174)
False pretenses (750.218)
Larceny (750.356)
Retail Fraud (750.356d)
Larceny from a vacant building (750.359)
Larceny by conversion (750.362)
Defrauding lessor (750.362a)
Malicious destruction of property (750.377a)
Malicious destruction of real property (750.380)
Failure to obey police direction (750.479a)
Receiving stolen property (750.535)
Malicious use of telephones (750.540e)
Violation of a law of the United States, another state, or a local
unit of government of this state or another state substantially
corresponding to a violation described above

Joey101
October 18, 2005, 10:36 AM
Down here CHL = No waiting period (Not that there is one here anyway:neener: ) and no form!:neener:

I only know this cause when i bought mine the officer, yes officer behind the counter asked me if I had a CHL because if I did I could bypass all the paper work!

There are some benefits to hot a** weather here in the Lone Star state.

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