Learning from family history.


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Oleg Volk
October 14, 2005, 02:31 AM
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/grandfather7192.sized.jpg
Grandfather was shot in summer of 1941, his daughter and her kids later the same year. My grandmother and one of her brothers survived further East. Another brother died in a tank at Kursk in 1943.

Since 1941, there wasn't a single year that I can think of during which no government killed or tortured scores of its own citizens. This kind of history repeats itself over and over again, checked here and there only by the armed resistance to tyranny...in too few instances.

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orangeninja
October 14, 2005, 02:37 AM
I like it. In fact just a couple of months ago I read a biograpy of a holocost survivor and what he experienced. I met him in person...I touched his tatoo. I shook his hand and I will tell my grandkids about him one day...and God help...it'll never happen here if I'm still drawing breath.

Scottmkiv
October 14, 2005, 03:14 AM
I really like the idea, but the JBT looks too much like someone playing dress up to me. It doesn't really same gritty or scary enough to me.

Compare him to the two in this pic:
http://www.a-human-right.com/s_monopoly.jpg

Oleg Volk
October 14, 2005, 03:19 AM
I might edit the image to make it look more dated...but the original idea was to make it a present-day person and a present-day threat. It is, in reality, another THR member who is a reenactor and who kindly posed for a few photos.

Preacherman
October 14, 2005, 08:31 AM
Oleg, I like the concept. One possible "tweak": how about showing the outline of a human being (or group of humans) as a dotted line, so that the soldier's pistol is clearly pointing at them, and then put your text inside the dotted line, so that it's more "pointed" in terms of reader/viewer impact?

Taipei Personality
October 14, 2005, 11:51 AM
Maybe "My great-grandfather, his daughter, and her children were here in 1941." Put the text inside or close to the outline as suggested by Preacherman, with the "NEVER AGAIN!" below.

atk
October 14, 2005, 12:40 PM
Oleg,

The concept is great, but I agree with Preacherman and Taipei Personality: it really needs people as the targets, not words.

Also, the text seems really long for the thought. Maybe if you were to make it a caption, like,


"1941, Left to right: Sgt. Johann Weiss, Great Grandfather David Pazy, Great Grandmother Ruth, Mom (Lisa Pazy), Auntie Bess Pazy. Never Again."


Which also leads me to think: what would it look like if you had the caption, and make the picture look like a newpaper clipping?

Oleg Volk
October 14, 2005, 01:04 PM
I thought I took photos of the family portraits last year, but could not find them in my files. Not sure what happened to them.

Justin
October 14, 2005, 01:13 PM
It doesn't need people as the targets. It's obvious from the way the pistol is pointed and what the text says.

Oleg, I really like this one.

atk
October 14, 2005, 01:18 PM
Justin,

It's obvious, but it doesn't convey any emotional content. Aiming at words is sterile. Aiming at people is emotionally charged.

Of course, if you want something that's less emotionally charged, words is good :)

Mongo the Mutterer
October 14, 2005, 01:30 PM
Oleg, I saw it this morning on your website.

Excellent

grnzbra
October 14, 2005, 01:31 PM
I really like the idea, but the JBT looks too much like someone playing dress up to me. It doesn't really same gritty or scary enough to me.


Actually, he looks like a sadistic little twerp who suddenly has been given some power and a real gun. That is truely frightening.

orangeninja
October 14, 2005, 02:08 PM
How about changing the uniform from the regular army type to a gestapo type. You know..all that black with the deaths head emblem etc.

Oleg Volk
October 14, 2005, 02:11 PM
Where would I get a Gestapo uniform?

Nightfall
October 14, 2005, 02:43 PM
I like this one alot, very well done.

atk
October 14, 2005, 02:53 PM
A quick search for "reenactment gestapo uniform" on Google comes up with: http://www.replicaters.com/gestapouniforms.html .

I don't know what good prices for it would be, and it looks like it will cost a few dollars, but it' apparantly available...

scout26
October 14, 2005, 05:37 PM
Where would I get a Gestapo uniform?

www.hugoboss.com

or was it SS uniforms he designed ????

FXR
October 14, 2005, 09:26 PM
Oleg said: "...but the original idea was to make it a present-day person and a present-day threat. "

Yep, great idea. All you have to do is put him in fashionable tactical black and it's perfect. Don't forget the Surefire light, Camelback, and "search warrant". :D

Or would that ruffle too many feathers:neener:

alpineman
October 14, 2005, 10:15 PM
Shocking, and utterly on-target.

Standing Wolf
October 14, 2005, 10:32 PM
I really like the idea, but the JBT looks too much like someone playing dress up to me.

He doesn't look the least bit German to me, and awfully young, as well.

Great idea.

bogie
October 15, 2005, 11:19 AM
One possible "tweak": how about showing the outline of a human being (or group of humans) as a dotted line, so that the soldier's pistol is clearly pointing at them, and then put your text inside the dotted line, so that it's more "pointed" in terms of reader/viewer impact?

I agree - Make the text conform to the outline, then remove the outline. I think this would be a case where more text would be better - maybe run a larger headline "Never Again" toward the top that white space...

Also, I'd go with a black or dark background, with the text reversed out.

"In 1941, a society taught its youth that some people were bad. That society's youth helped destroy millions of lives..."

Besides, not every Nazi looked like a JBT - some of them were accountants, having to make sure that no gold tooth was incinerated...

Smokey Joe
October 15, 2005, 12:37 PM
Oleg--Great poster; XLNT expression of an idea. I agree the JBT looks like a twerp, and he should look like a twerp! A twerp who just now has been given the power and authority to punish all those nasty people who outdid him in the past by by greater intelligence or more effort. Twerps in that situation are capable of incalculable cruelty.

One tiny little quibble: Where is the holster for that Walther? Should it not be on the twerp's belt, in front of his dagger, right where that box thing is? BTW, this lack doesn't take away from the poster's impact at all.

Where will we see this appearing in public?

Oleg Volk
October 15, 2005, 01:45 PM
Holster in on the left,crossdraw. The guy also has rifle ammo pouches, that's his primaryweapon.

In terms of print publishing, I am still waiting to hear from the people who understand distribution methods better than I do at this time.

AndrewTB
October 16, 2005, 06:12 PM
The guy looks like one of the characters out of Band Of Brothers. Id suggest getting the outfit reccomended if possible. I think a true authenic nazi picture would be best.

solareclipse
October 16, 2005, 07:21 PM
That's probably the most powereful one to date.. :)

Andrew Rothman
October 16, 2005, 07:28 PM
Grammatically, "was here."

But I like the poster a lot.

Justin
October 16, 2005, 07:35 PM
It's obvious, but it doesn't convey any emotional content. Aiming at words is sterile. Aiming at people is emotionally charged.

Of course, if you want something that's less emotionally charged, words is good

Yeah,agree with the second sentence. The poster already has the emotional impact of confronting the viewer with the fact that his family was murdered. No need to push it over the top with imagery that would (at least to me) seem tawdry and condescending.

This is, of course, just my opinion. :)

Kaylee
October 16, 2005, 09:32 PM
Another Classic Oleg poster! Nicely done!

I agree with the "he looks like a little twerp and that's a good thing" comments.

Rather than add photos of people, what about just putting the words in a solid sillohette of a few people kneeling before him? That way you get the effect of "real" people being hurt by the sadist, but without cluttering the image.

orangeninja
October 16, 2005, 10:09 PM
Hey Oleg...do you think the U.N. will steal this one too?

Freedomv
October 16, 2005, 10:14 PM
Place his finger on the trigger. I don't think that they were too safety concious while shooting people.

Also his uniform is just too ill fitted,,,,,,,,,, A true German looked smart. ( not to be confused with intelligent.)

$.02
Vern

junyo
October 16, 2005, 10:30 PM
It's probably a completely different poster, but how about the same soldier, but change the camera POV to looking directly into the barrel, with enough depth of field to see the soldier's face behind the sights.

"This is the last thing my great grandfather, his daughter and her children ever saw. After depriving them of the means to defend themselves, the state systematically denied them due process, all legal protections and, in the end, their lives.

Never again."

atk
October 17, 2005, 12:19 PM
Yeah,agree with the second sentence. The poster already has the emotional impact of confronting the viewer with the fact that his family was murdered. No need to push it over the top with imagery that would (at least to me) seem tawdry and condescending.


Oh. I think I understand your point now.



This is, of course, just my opinion


Moderators have opinions? :neener:

Moonclip
October 18, 2005, 05:17 PM
The picture with the 2 SS soldiers, I believe they are actually members of one of the SS foreign divisions and that they are French!

Oleg Volk
October 18, 2005, 05:22 PM
They were French! I erased the sleeve insignia.

roo_ster
October 18, 2005, 11:45 PM
Dayum. Just dayum.

CGofMP
October 19, 2005, 12:55 AM
I really love the concept here. Powerful and to the point.

I must say however (and I do this with great respect to your family history) that the Nazi just does not have the JBT look down enough. I htink someone more 'aryan' and buffed would look more intimidating and make the point in a more in your face way.

Stand_Watie
October 19, 2005, 01:08 AM
Oleg is that your family history in the blurb with the photo? If so, I'm interested in details. If you have that kind of stuff put into bio form, I think it would make an interesting addition, and another compelling pro-second argumenton your 'a human right' website.

Oleg Volk
October 19, 2005, 01:30 AM
Mine...and it is on my site (AHR)

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