An armed and armored front-end loader?


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Preacherman
October 15, 2005, 08:06 PM
From the Telegraph, London (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=DWXX3FPPC0MHPQFIQMFCM5WAVCBQYJVC?xml=/news/2005/10/16/wjcb16.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/16/ixworld.html):

It's a JCB... but not as we know it

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent

(Filed: 16/10/2005)

The United States Army, the world's most powerful military organisation, has unveiled its latest secret weapon in the war against terror - a JCB digger that can travel at 60 miles an hour.

Camouflaged to protect it from enemy fire and equipped with machine-guns, armour, bullet-proof glass and smoke dispensers, this latest vehicle is the biggest, fastest and most expensive digger ever to go into production.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/10/16/wjcb16big.jpg


It is a far cry from the design of the first digger - the creation of Joseph Cyril Bamford - which made its debut in the towns and villages of Staffordshire during the reconstruction of post-war Britain.

The 12-ton vehicle has a 5.9-litre diesel engine, four-wheel-drive and four-wheel-steer design. It can lift more than two tons and can dig to a depth of 13 feet.

But its most impressive attribute is that it has a top speed of 60mph, twice that of the civilian version, which will enable it to travel at the same speed over rough terrain and on roads as an armoured military convoy.

It is also equipped with "run-flat" tyres, which will allow it to escape from ambushes even if the wheels are damaged by small arms fire, and is fitted with a second seat that will enable another soldier to ride "shotgun".

Chris Sleight, the editor of International Construction magazine, described the machine as "an impressive feat of engineering".

He said: "It is the speed of this machine that sets it apart from others - it can travel at almost 60mph. That's twice the speed of a normal JCB and that is very, very impressive. It will look different to the JCBs seen on building sites. It will have a lot of its vital parts covered with armour plating so it will look quite different. Style will not be an issue."

An industry source added that the Americans decided to make the vehicle armoured after its construction teams in Iraq were constantly attacked by insurgents because they were unable to protect themselves properly.

He added: "The beauty of this machine is that it can get to the front line very quickly and can get out of trouble very quickly. It does 0 to 60mph in a minute, which is not bad for something that will be armour-plated. It also has air conditioning and cup holders for the driver and co-driver."

Although the armoured digger may lack the military allure of a battle tank, it is a vital component of virtually all large-scale operations. The digger, based on the famous JCB backhoe loader, will be used to dig trenches, fill in shell craters, build defensive positions and airstrips.

It is understood that the United States Army version of the machine will begin to roll off the production line in 2007 and will be dispatched to Iraq to take part in the rebuilding programme. The digger's self-defence weapons and additional armour will be fitted after the Americans has taken delivery.

The 100 million contract to provide up to 500 diggers - each costs in excess of 200,000 - was awarded to JCB, the British construction company, this month following a nine-month assessment at the army's proving grounds in Maryland. The award of the contract followed a three-year development programme.

JCB, which was founded in the 1950s, is one of Britain's most successful privately owned construction companies. The small but versatile JCB backhoe loader is the workhorse of the range and has achieved sales of more than 325,000 across five continents.

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dasmi
October 15, 2005, 08:09 PM
So...where can I get one?

chris in va
October 15, 2005, 08:12 PM
They're seriously gonna make those things??

Lupinus
October 15, 2005, 08:15 PM
**drools and goes into homer mode** mmmmmmm loader

Standing Wolf
October 15, 2005, 08:55 PM
27 miles to the gallon around town, 38 miles to the gallon on the highway, no doubt.

shermacman
October 15, 2005, 09:00 PM
"Armour plating"
"Smoke grenades"
"Machine guns"

"Twin cup holders"


BWAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justin
October 15, 2005, 09:01 PM
And to think I used to get chastised for drawing pictures of stuff like that in grade school.:uhoh:

Zundfolge
October 15, 2005, 09:09 PM
Wow!

Think what that guy in Granby coulda done with THAT! :eek:

:evil:

rudolf
October 15, 2005, 09:44 PM
The Israelis started this concept of armed and armoured bulldozers.
You shoot at the Israelis from your house. They don't send special forces. They don't remove you from the house. They remove the house :evil:

Insectguy
October 15, 2005, 10:02 PM
My truck has a 5.9L gas engine, and nowhere near the payload of this thing.

Must be a better design. :scrutiny:

And I get 12.5 mpg.:confused:

Alex45ACP
October 15, 2005, 10:23 PM
That's pretty cool. I wonder if it's even bigger than a D9.

shermacman
October 15, 2005, 10:30 PM
"Camouflage paint"


AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'M GUNNA PEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Camouflage paint"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YUP! Ain't no one gunna see you in that thing!!!!!!!!!

PeteRR
October 15, 2005, 11:14 PM
My truck has a 5.9L gas engine, and nowhere near the payload of this thing.

Must be a better design. :scrutiny:

And I get 12.5 mpg.:confused:

Undoubtedly a 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel. A potent motor.

MillCreek
October 16, 2005, 12:35 AM
The Israelis started this concept of armed and armoured bulldozers.

I believe that the Israeli bulldozers are built by Caterpillar. The reason I know this is that a year or two ago, a young US citizen was killed by such a bulldozer while trying to stop it from crushing a Palestinian house. She was originally from Olympia, and her parents, who still reside in Washington, subsequently filed a lawsuit against Caterpillar for providing these bulldozers to the Israelis. There was some media attention at the time in the Seattle area about this.

MEMO TO SELF: Do not stand in front of very large and heavy armored vehicles with lousy vision for the driver. :uhoh:

Lupinus
October 16, 2005, 12:39 AM
We could all chip in and buy a few front end loaders and make our own rednecktified versions :evil:

PeteRR
October 16, 2005, 12:41 AM
I believe that the Israeli bulldozers are built by Caterpillar. The reason I know this is that a year or two ago, a young US citizen was killed by such a bulldozer while trying to stop it from crushing a Palestinian house. She was originally from Olympia, and her parents, who still reside in Washington, subsequently filed a lawsuit against Caterpillar for providing these bulldozers to the Israelis. There was some media attention at the time in the Seattle area about this.

MEMO TO SELF: Do not stand in front of very large and heavy armored vehicles with lousy vision for the driver. :uhoh:

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1012410/5241553/89505063.jpg
:evil:

thorn726
October 16, 2005, 03:59 AM
well first off, my dump truck has a bigger motor so im not that impressed.
next, id rather on of these slightly larger models myself, although they are slower=

darn it i cant find a decent image anywhere, ill have ot take a photo myself.
anyway, the huge ladfill dozers, with steel wheels, similar to this anyway
but bigger

http://sftrance.com/images/dozer.jpg

major damage, plus the huge blade and super tall cabin provide lots of protection

I believe that the Israeli bulldozers are built by Caterpillar. The reason I know this is that a year or two ago, a young US citizen was killed by such a bulldozer while trying to stop it from crushing a Palestinian house.

that became significant and also they did NOT build all of the cats there, some were shipped.
reasoning for suit= totally illegal for regular companies to contract out equiptment being used as warmachines.
of course all cat does is say "we didnt know what they were gonna do with them"
and its over.

but in theory it is illegal to sell construction equipt to other nations for war uses, something to that effect.

equate it to selling stun guns to foreign govts that use them for torture.

Farnham
October 16, 2005, 10:13 AM
60 MPH in a front end loader...hmm...anyone ever run a Cat 920 or 966 at less than half that speed down a washboard road or had to hit the brakes? :rolleyes:

Better you than me.

S/F

Farnham

SASS#23149
October 16, 2005, 10:30 AM
you'd not want to make any kind of tight turn at SIXTY MPH.Over you'd go!!!
That motor is waaay too small for the rig,seems like.
hmmmmm.

Kobun
October 16, 2005, 10:59 AM
60 MPH in a front end loader...hmm...anyone ever run a Cat 920 or 966 at less than half that speed down a washboard road or had to hit the brakes? :rolleyes:
Nope, not a CAT, but a Volvo similar in size to a 920. 37 MPH down a narrow gravel road in the forest, with trees on one side and a cliff on the other.
Never again! :uhoh: Problem wasn't breaking, but having to constantly jiggle the steeringwheel in order to take up the slack in the steering joint.

Australians have had this one out for some years. Also does 60 MPH

http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen_orient/Emirats_arabe/IDEX_2003_Pictures_Gallery/IDEX_2005/pictures/HMEV_armyrecognition_idex_2005_01.jpg

More info in this PDF. (http://www.adi-limited.com/pdfs/hmev_6p_eng.pdf)

Sam
October 16, 2005, 11:04 AM
I'm with Farnham,
Most construction equipment is lousey for driving at any speed at all.
Observe a grader loader anything else trying to get down the road where he isn't supposed to be. Can barely keep the things in the lane when it's smooth.
No way I'm taking that thing to the strip.

I really hate armored equipment anyway. heavy eqpt is maintainance intensive stuff and when you start slapping plate all over it, any convenience goes out the window. It better have single point greasing and lots of hinged panels.

Sam

Dannyboy
October 16, 2005, 05:22 PM
Pancake breakfast? Ouch! Talk about bad. Kinda funny, though, in a sick and twisted sorta way.:evil:

Bigjake
October 16, 2005, 05:38 PM
My truck has a 5.9L gas engine, and nowhere near the payload of this thing.

well first off, my dump truck has a bigger motor so im not that impressed.
next, id rather on of these slightly larger models myself, although they are slower

Guys its all about gear ratios, not cubic inches or horsepower. My John Deere 7710 is only putting out about 160 horsepower, and it'll pull a 7 bottom plow all day. I'm sure this thing definatly has a pair of big brass ones.

Not sure though, on how it will fare against RPGs :uhoh:


heres a pic for reference- http://www.netikka.net/mikko.pikkutupa/7710.jpg

Majic
October 16, 2005, 05:49 PM
Have you ever drove a front end loader? At just 20 mph the weight of the boom and bucket and the type of tires will set it to rocking when hitting any kind of bump or like mentioned above when hitting the brakes hard. I just can't see one being stable at 60 mph on anything but a perfectly smooth surface.

Azrael256
October 16, 2005, 05:52 PM
60 MPH in a front end loader Ok, hang on just a second there. It is capable of 60mph. An Abrams is capable of 85mph, but they don't run that fast because the vehicle can't handle being driven that fast over anything short of a quality runway. You get up in that range, and tracks come off. It's a Bad Thing(tm).

So, they're governed down to 45mph (even slower on the newer versions, IIRC), which doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to run 45mph sustained for any length of time. If you read up on convoys, you'll find that they tend to move pretty slowly, even in vehicles that are highway-safe at 65mph. The problem with the older earth-movers was that they were slow, and not designed to drive by themselves in a convoy. They had to be loaded on flatbeds and moved to where they were needed (they move tanks that way, too). Think of the logistical savings of not needing flatbeds for earth moving equipment. Think of the tactical advantage of having a ready-to-go backhoe arrive with the tanks in a position.

Sam
October 16, 2005, 06:59 PM
Think of the logistical savings of not needing flatbeds for earth moving equipment. Think of the tactical advantage of having a ready-to-go backhoe arrive with the tanks in a position.


Instead how about we think of the logistical disadvantage of having to haul tire servicing gear for the thing. Tire wear will be tremendous and you are not going to bust tires on that by hand. Likewise jacking. You don't do that one with a 5 ton bottle jack.

The cab might be small arms resistant, but not proof. A decent MMG will eat that glass alive. Likewise the hydraulics are exposed. It would take a really unusual situation where that will be more productive and cost effective than hauling in a conventional loader.

I remember the HMMWV when it came out. Takes a tool set and half compared to it's predecessors and 40% more maintainance time, besides being lousey to ride with your gear on. Also needed 50-60% more airlift. Then we had the 900 series 5 tons with the electronic idiot box and CTIS. Solutions to problems that didn't exist that require lots more support and maintainance without significant improvement in hauling capability. Can you operate a 900 series without a battery? NO! Can you repair the tranny in the field? Can you work around a shot tranny on a 900? Not that we rebuilt a lot of M35 trannies in the field, we just took off the top cover and popped them into gear with a prybar and slapped the lid back on. Backed them onto railroad embankments to bump start when we gave up the battery to something more important, chained the inter-axle to the frame and drove them when some idjit bent them. Recovered an M49 that rolled 5 times down a 125 ft cliff with a full tank of avgas. Lost 21 gallons before we had it upright and running. When a HEMETT goes off a cliff teh tank comes OFF! What do you do with used oil on a 900? On a 35 you mixed it with gas and ran on it.
The new stuff looks pretty, has the call of modern and is unsupportable when things really gets tight.

Going backwards folks, going backwards.

Just my mechanical 50 cents worth.

Sam

acdodd
October 16, 2005, 08:13 PM
http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1012410/5241553/89505063.jpg
:evil:
Pancake breakfast. That is bad, but funny.
AC

Farnham
October 16, 2005, 10:44 PM
Think of the tactical advantage of having a ready-to-go backhoe arrive with the tanks in a position.

We already got one...the ACE (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m9-ace.htm). Not a backhoe, but fully capable of digging positions and breaching.

It only goes 30 MPH, but according to your convoy ops, that's fast enough. It also doesn't bounce about thirty feet off the road and land on it's exquisitely armored turret when Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli hits a bump and oversteers.

Besides, the only piece of engineer equipment I ever thought we did right is the MCLC (Mine Clearing Line Charge), just cause it's so dam uber-cool, I'm biased. :evil:

S/F

Farnham

P.S. Check out some of the Soviet engineering equipment, they had some of the craziest gear you EVER saw. Rube Goldberg woulda been proud of most of it.

rmgill
October 17, 2005, 05:04 PM
The Israelis started this concept of armed and armoured bulldozers.

Not quite. It was the British. Percey Hobart's boffins actually.

Crocodiles (Churchills with flamer throwers), Vehicle Launched Bridges (AVLB), Ploughs, bobbin carriers, fascine carriers, Arks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart's_Funnies

Flail Tanks, Churchill AVRE's, Armored Bulldozers,
http://www.members.shaw.ca/junobeach/juno-7.htm

Centaur Dozers
http://www.armouredengineer.force9.co.uk/dozerart.htm

The_Antibubba
October 18, 2005, 04:19 AM
Sorry, but I gotta call Bull.
















Dozer.



:neener:

RTFM
October 18, 2005, 09:08 AM
Preacherman, your post reminded me of my good friend Kevin's email.
Kevin is in the United States Marine Corp serving us in Iraq.

Here is Kevins Email about bulldozers:

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:49:02 -0500

Hello everybody,
I just thought I'd go ahead and send everyone a little note to do a few
things:

1. Let you know I'm OK
2. Let you know what happened
3. Talk about a bulldozer (just wait and see)

1. I'm OK. Really, I'm doing fine. I've been returned to my unit, and
have a few weeks of Light Duty to get my arm/shoulder feeeling better
before I have to do any work. I almost have full mobility of my elbow
back, and I can do almost all the tasks that I'd need to if I had to go out
tomorrow, but I don't. So don't worry about me.

2. Ok, so there I was in an undisclosed location ( no not with Saddam)
outside of Fallujah, working on my Flak Jacket. We had been there for
several hours, and had not had any incoming or small arms fire or anything.
I had wanted to attach my gerber pliers pouch to my flack and so I ad it
off and was just about to put a cut in the pouch, when BOOM.
A 122mm rocket landed and exploded behind my vehicle off to the left
side. Unfortunately, that was my side. Now I was standing in my Vehicle
Commanders Station, so only a my upper body was exposed to the blast. uch.
I immediately dropped into my vehicle, and was cradling my injured arm.
Boy did it hurt. I took my hand away and called on the Radio "White one,
this is Gold Four, I'm Hit, I need Doc over here" Thats the genral gist of
the transmission, but its not an exact quote.
I also noticed I was leaking pretty good, however I stayed down at first
because I thought I had heard some small arms fire also. There was none,
but my hearing prolly wasn't the best after the big boom. A Marine came
over to the vehicle and helped me out of it. I was taken to one of the
other vehicles where they proceeded to cut my uniform off me. I think
they thought I was hit in more places, because my arm was leaking all over
my chest and legs. I knew that once I was in the hands of doc ( our Navy
Corpsman) that I'd be OK. I did think that my arm was broken, but later
xrays showed that wasn't true.
Once Doc had me stabilised and leaking less, we were loaded up into some
of the vehicles and taken to the Bravo Surgical Company. Those guys were
just awesome. From the immediate care I was given that evening, to the day
to day care I had while I was there, they did an impeccable job.

So anyhow.... Lets talk about Bulldozers. By the way Thanks Dad for
teaching me how to drive one.

3. Prior to me getting hit, we were up north a bit guarding two bridges.
We had requested a bulldozer, and Gunny was bringing it up the next day,
but just as he got close to us an IED went off and blew up near the tractor
trailer carrying the bulldozer. The two guys driving it were ok, but took
some cuts from the glass of the cab blowing in.
So that left a broken down Tractor trailer with a bulldozer on it in the
middle of a not so friendly town. What to do, what to do....
After I asked around and found that no-one ahd any bulldozer experience,
I said "I'll try" and I jumped up on the bulldozer and started to try to
get it started. I found the keys, and after I found the TM (technical
manual) I was able to get it started. I had already ungriped it from thr
trailer, and planned to ust drive it off the back of the trailer and then
drag the whole thing inside of friendly lines. Unfortunatley this dozer
had a ripper on the back that caught on the trailer when it came off. It
took me over a half an hour to finally free the dozer from the trailer, and
this included removing one of the ripper teeth. But at last I had it off
the trailer. I placed it in front of the broken truck, and used the tie
down chains to attach the buldozer to the truck and dragged it at about
1mph into the safer area. Now I lefta few things out, like how I tore part
of the bumper off, or broke one of the chains, but basically, thanks to my
dad letting me drive a bulldozer once, I was able to get the truck and the
bulldozer to safety.

Thanks Dad.

Oh, and if you want the full story...... See me in April with some beers.

Your wounded Marine,
Kevin

Kharn
October 18, 2005, 09:19 AM
Bah, I wish they hadn't canceled the Grizzly.
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/gz067.jpg
Its an M1 Abrams modified to be a combat engineer's favorite toy.

Kharn

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