My wife and I went to a viewing last night...


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Sportcat
October 16, 2005, 12:32 PM
It was my brother-in-law's, fiance's uncle. We didn't know the man, but went to support the family.

He and his wife had gone out Thursday night to get some take-out. They placed the order and then went back out to their car to wait. A few minutes later the husband went back in to get his food, went back out to his car and was approached by a "poor disadvantaged youth."

Apparently the BG asked for money and a struggle ensued. The victim was shot once in the chest and fell back into the car. The scum then shot the victim in the head. When the victim was falling back into the car he was able to grab a chain off of the BG. After the shooting the BG jumped into a waiting car that had two other "poor disadvantaged youth" in it. The police linked the chain to a local gang.

The entire time this happened the victim's wife was in the car.

He was only 44.

This morning I heard there was another robbery at the same location last night. Thankfully no one was physically injured.

It really pisses me off these scumbags believe they have right to take property and life from others.

While the shooting and robbery happened on the other side of town, the "bad side," it has only reinforced that fact that you still carry wherever you go and be prepared.

Funeral is a 3:00p today, please say a prayer for the widow and her 21-year-old daughter.

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Shipwreck
October 16, 2005, 12:36 PM
That's sad

Pilgrim
October 16, 2005, 12:46 PM
I suppose after a few weeks these animals will return to hunt in their familiar hunting grounds.

Pilgrim

bobhaverford
October 16, 2005, 02:01 PM
Did he initiate the struggle or did he comply with the BG's requests? Was the BG brandishing the gun or did he pull it out? In performing the post-mortem I always like to closely analyze the facts and see what mistakes were made.

Specifically, is there anything he could have done to prevent getting killed other than carrying?

And, if he was carrying, if the BG had the gun drawn could he have prevented this somehow?

James T Thomas
October 16, 2005, 02:19 PM
For much of it, the current generation of misguided youths have been "cut off" from the preceeding generation, and they and our nation are in peril because of it.

Our so called higher education system is largely at fault! What do I mean by this? The Bible has been removed from the classroom, faith and belief in God has been cleansed out of the textbooks -even to the extent of Thanksgiving references, attempts are being made to delete the phrase "under God" from the pledge, and on and on. Now this is deemed "neutral," however, in their stead has been substitued philosophy ( a faith or religion if you will) of another morality. Secular Humanism. How neutral is this?

An example: "What is right for you, may not be right to me," so in effect, the children are being taught to decide right from wrong according to their own consciences; and they often have none! This began with the appointment of a man named John Dewey in our Fed. Gov't. Dept. of Education, and of course the Scopes trial; evolution theory, so that now young men and women are after all only a few steps up from the animals, and their behavior proves it.

After having fought to preserve my life; Vietnam '68-69, and also now in civilian life, if I am removed from this life by the attempts of a violent criminal, I will go down fighting. I will not surrender, nor be slaughtered, nor give quarter to any such felons.

It's unfortunate that your uncle was not able to defend his precious, God -given life, but be sure that the killers will stand in a great court of Justice, and The Judge of the Universe, will administer judgement upon them with no revocation, parole, delays, legal manueverings, or plea bargains.

MikeIsaj
October 16, 2005, 02:25 PM
Sportcat; My family will remember the victim today in our prayers, as well as those he left behind.

Let's all take the high road and leave this be for a few days out of respect for the man. Then you can all tell us what he did wrong and how you would have done better.

Timing is everything here.

Mnemesyne
October 16, 2005, 04:17 PM
Our prayers are with you and your family at this time...

Solo
October 16, 2005, 05:03 PM
My condolences to you and your family.

attempts are being made to delete the phrase "under God" from the pledge

The phrase "under god" Was never part of the origional pladge, IIRC.

Sportcat
October 16, 2005, 05:05 PM
Thanks all for your replies.

But this was not my uncle... it was my brother-in-law's, fiance's uncle. Like I said, I never met the man, but it is always a tragedy when an innocent man dies in front of his wife.

I do not know the exact details, but from what has been passed on to me, the victim did not comply with the BG's inital demands.

I'm not sure who initiated the struggle.

The gun was pulled during the struggle.

Buck Snort
October 16, 2005, 05:11 PM
At sixty two years of age I find it better to just stay home at night.

AnthonyRSS
October 16, 2005, 06:14 PM
+1 for James Thomas

Edmond
October 16, 2005, 06:16 PM
At sixty two years of age I find it better to just stay home at night.

At twenty five years old, I find it the same way.

JGR
October 16, 2005, 08:07 PM
Our so called higher education system is largely at fault!
Just a note: higher education is colleges and universities. I believe your anger is directed at the public school system.

An example: "What is right for you, may not be right to me," so in effect, the children are being taught to decide right from wrong according to their own consciences; and they often have none!
No, children are just being taught pluralism, but I don't know of any culture that condones violence (and if there are any they're a very small minority).

dasmi
October 16, 2005, 08:09 PM
At sixty two years of age I find it better to just stay home at night.
23, same thing. Either my home, or someone else's.

Ala Dan
October 16, 2005, 08:36 PM
Sorry Sir, prayers and condolesences sent~!:(

Mr. James T Thomas-

Many thanks for the most excellent post, you stated my exact sentiments.:D

chris in va
October 16, 2005, 08:51 PM
taught to decide right from wrong according to their own consciences; and they often have none

Boy, isn't that the truth. I see it in my friend's kid. She simply doesn't see anything wrong with some of her actions and actually gets very pissed at ME for pointing them out.

I actually fear the current crop of adolescents being raised right now...

pezo
October 16, 2005, 08:59 PM
I'd had a good customer of mine for many years who worked in detroit. He was mugged and stabbed to death in a parking lot in the city. I'm not paranoid but when I hear stories of this. It only reinforces my beleif that every law abiding citizen be allowed to carry a concealed handgun. Let sarah brady explain to the family of these victoms why they shouldnt be allowed the means to one up the badguys and defend themselves:fire: . these stories work both ways.

Standing Wolf
October 16, 2005, 09:38 PM
At sixty two years of age I find it better to just stay home at night.

You're no doubt safer, but I say no American citizen should ever have to live in fear. It's the criminals who should live in constant, acute fear of us.

Chrontius
October 16, 2005, 11:06 PM
For much of it, the current generation of misguided youths have been "cut off" from the preceeding generation, and they and our nation are in peril because of it.

Our so called higher education system is largely at fault! What do I mean by this? The Bible has been removed from the classroom, faith and belief in God has been cleansed out of the textbooks -even to the extent of Thanksgiving references, attempts are being made to delete the phrase "under God" from the pledge, and on and on. Now this is deemed "neutral," however, in their stead has been substitued philosophy ( a faith or religion if you will) of another morality. Secular Humanism. How neutral is this?

An example: "What is right for you, may not be right to me," so in effect, the children are being taught to decide right from wrong according to their own consciences; and they often have none! This began with the appointment of a man named John Dewey in our Fed. Gov't. Dept. of Education, and of course the Scopes trial; evolution theory, so that now young men and women are after all only a few steps up from the animals, and their behavior proves it.

After having fought to preserve my life; Vietnam '68-69, and also now in civilian life, if I am removed from this life by the attempts of a violent criminal, I will go down fighting. I will not surrender, nor be slaughtered, nor give quarter to any such felons.

It's unfortunate that your uncle was not able to defend his precious, God -given life, but be sure that the killers will stand in a great court of Justice, and The Judge of the Universe, will administer judgement upon them with no revocation, parole, delays, legal manueverings, or plea bargains.

Three points:

It was originally "I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, equality, and justice for all."

Congress never planned to give equality to all.


The Scopes decision means that we have an affordable, effective treatment for diabetes. 'Nuff said.


Secular huminism is a farce, and has been ruled to be a state-sponsored religeon. Plan to see it go bye-bye as soon as the last crop of textbooks are worn out.

rick_reno
October 16, 2005, 11:32 PM
That's terrible.

Edmond
October 16, 2005, 11:44 PM
You're no doubt safer, but I say no American citizen should ever have to live in fear. It's the criminals who should live in constant, acute fear of us.

True, but it's people like Brady (who probably has armed body guards) that embolden the criminals.:uhoh:

MechAg94
October 17, 2005, 12:34 AM
Very high illigitimacy rates in some areas/cultures has contributed as well.

el44vaquero
October 17, 2005, 02:58 AM
It's a sad thing.

Missashot
October 17, 2005, 10:25 AM
My heartfelt prayers and condolences go out to this man's family and friends.
Such a shame.
I agree with a few folks here about the youth of today. However, I don't blame the schools or the pledge of allegiance, or anything else along those lines. In my opinion, education and values begin at home. Parents need to take responsible, positive roles in shaping their children's lives by teaching them right from wrong.

Delmar
October 17, 2005, 10:44 AM
+1 on everything Missashot said, including the prayers.
Keep in mind that not all of today's youth are bad people. I have two sons of which I am extremely proud of.
The eldest is a combat medic in Samarra right now, with 2 and a half months to go on his tour (PLEASE GOD!) and the youngest busting his hump to gain a West Point nomination. Both eagle scouts, and raised from day one to know right from wrong.

Fastlane
October 17, 2005, 10:52 AM
Delmar good job on your sons... +1. Prayers for the family of the man slain. :(

Janitor
October 17, 2005, 11:00 AM
Parents need to take responsible, positive roles in shaping their children's lives by teaching them right from wrong.
+1

Saying the schools are responsible for teaching moral values to our children sounds like one is pretty comfortable turning over fairly important aspects of their lives to someone else. Saying the police are responsible for your saftey doesn't seem that far a leap from here.

raised from day one to know right from wrong.
Now see? That's what I'm talking about.

Edmond
October 17, 2005, 05:12 PM
I don't blame the schools at all because it's not the schools job to raise a child. That responsibility rests on the parents. Unfortunately, in so many cases, there are no parents around. There may be a parent or just a grandparent around.

James T Thomas
October 17, 2005, 06:03 PM
"Janitor, Edmond," and others who correctly know that the parents have the primary responsibility for raising the child.
I do not think you understand just what is occurring in our society today.
When I said the young people have been "cut off" from the preceeding generation; what has been done in our public education system is to convert the young person's mind to the belief that the parent no longer has the authority to govern the child, that, the parent is part of an antiquated and erroneous system of beliefs, and therefore, the child is part of the "new age" and is free to decide for themselves. No longer are they responsible to mother and father! And they will not be corrected or told what to do.

If you don't believe that today's children have accepted this damned philosophy and are living their lives according to it, you are decieving yourself!

As a result, the parent who would instill such "antiquated values" as their own respected parents passed on to them, is unable to influence their own offspring. At all! The kids are "free," adrift at sea, so to speak. Reguardless of the heritage you wish to convey to them.

Havn't you been astonished at the lack of respect today's children have toward adults? It just is not there. How did this happen? The young people even have contempt for the people who have brought them into the world.
Wasn't it Hitler, or maybe Nitche who stated "give me control of one generation of school children and I will change completely the direction of a society? ( My statement is not verbatim.)

Delmar: The bravest men I saw on the Vietnam battlefields were the combat medics. A man who has been awarded the Combat Medics badge deserves high respect, and will have that from anyone who has witnessed such things.
Just a brief note of advice you may want to convey to your brave son.
Many of the screams of the wounded are from men terrifed that they are "hit" even though their wound is not immediately life threatening. Yes they will be in pain, but the pain will not kill them. Have him go to his C.O., and LT's and discuss this with them prior to battle so that he is only called for an actual situation of imminent death.

I had seen two brave young medics summoned to run through a "hail of bullets" when the wounded could have been treated by their buddies; who had been taught first aid, and as a result exposed themselves needlessly, and did loose their lives. Brave men. A tradgedy.

I was in a Company that was almost wiped out in a tremendous ambush, and through the internet have made contact with only two of the remaining survivors. Both of these men are highly decorated soldiers, and both have stated the same regret. That they would have made sure the medic was called for only in a dying situation.

Best wishes to your West Point candidate. I served under two Captains, and perhaps a dozen Lt's. The officers are the first targets, and any man who has only the garrison soldier's contempt for the field grade officers, has only a limited viewpoint of what these men will face in the true situation they have in combat.

Will pray too, Delmar, not for the deceased, but for the living. Please post their names if you would.

james481
October 17, 2005, 06:30 PM
For much of it, the current generation of misguided youths have been "cut off" from the preceeding generation, and they and our nation are in peril because of it.

Our so called higher education system is largely at fault! What do I mean by this? The Bible has been removed from the classroom, faith and belief in God has been cleansed out of the textbooks -even to the extent of Thanksgiving references, attempts are being made to delete the phrase "under God" from the pledge, and on and on. Now this is deemed "neutral," however, in their stead has been substitued philosophy ( a faith or religion if you will) of another morality. Secular Humanism. How neutral is this?

An example: "What is right for you, may not be right to me," so in effect, the children are being taught to decide right from wrong according to their own consciences; and they often have none! This began with the appointment of a man named John Dewey in our Fed. Gov't. Dept. of Education, and of course the Scopes trial; evolution theory, so that now young men and women are after all only a few steps up from the animals, and their behavior proves it.

After having fought to preserve my life; Vietnam '68-69, and also now in civilian life, if I am removed from this life by the attempts of a violent criminal, I will go down fighting. I will not surrender, nor be slaughtered, nor give quarter to any such felons.

It's unfortunate that your uncle was not able to defend his precious, God -given life, but be sure that the killers will stand in a great court of Justice, and The Judge of the Universe, will administer judgement upon them with no revocation, parole, delays, legal manueverings, or plea bargains.

First, I'll say thank you for your brave service for our country, and for the sacrifices you and your friends made for all of us. Secondly, I think that blaming religion (or lack thereof) for the problems in society today is a bit short sighted. It doesn't matter by what name people call god, or what scripture they tend to believe. What matters is how they are being raised by their parents. So, before condemming this generation for their faults, realize that blame can be placed squarely on the generation that came before. The problem is that people no longer understand the full commitment it takes to raise a child. All people now think about is clothes, food, and diapers to raise a child, not what values they are instilling in their children. The combination of welfare-like programs and the evolution of the "working woman" has lead to children who have no values taught to them through childhood. Raising a child is a 24 hour / 365 day job, not one that can be done in the hour between the end of work and dinner. And third, just because you believe in a certain god or a certain scripture does not mean that everyone else should have to as well. If you want your child to be taught christianity in school, send them to a private christain school. Your child does not have any "god-given" right to be taught religion in school (I thought that's what churches are for), and you certainly have no right to say what religion that MY child should be taught. As long as I am paying taxes, not one of my cents will be used to teach a child antiquated religious beliefs.

James

James T Thomas
October 18, 2005, 11:09 PM
James481: Please reconsider!
"Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal...etc. are not antiquated beliefs.
Maybe they are being viewed that way and therein lies part of the problem.

Friend, think about it; how one percieves God, or not, determines your entire viewpoint on life itself, and settles your actions, doings, comings and goings. Everything.

AnthonyRSS
October 18, 2005, 11:57 PM
I'm with James T here but I see where the others are coming from. It is much easier to have a set of morals if you have an infallible standard to back them up with. Otherwise, morals change. You can see change in society's morals in the last xx years. And you can blame it on whatever you want.

But I've gotten, OT.
My condolences to the family.

bobhaverford
October 19, 2005, 11:42 AM
I don't know of any culture that condones violence (and if there are any they're a very small minority).

Excuuuze me?!! What about Islam? It not only condones violence but promotes it actively as good. Jihad is a religious responsibility. The Japanese condoned violence. Surely the Germans. But the quintesential advocates of violence are the Mooooooslems. And we WILL have to deal with sooner rather than later.

nomadboi
October 19, 2005, 01:16 PM
I'm with James481 on this, I'm afraid. One does not need to believe that the earth was created by god in order to treat the residents of it with a little respect.

Sadly, almost all societies have condoned violence when it suited their needs. I don't think anyone who is on this board (a firearms board, after all) would deny that occasionally violence is actually neccessary and useful. Look at some of the wartime propaganda from any country- not just German, but American too, or Russian (they were on our side then), or anyone else... Violence against people from a specific national or ethnic group was encouraged. History is full of political, religious, ethnic, or other crusades and wars, and picking any one god to promote won't necessarily change that.

Not saying I have the answers- I've got a kid of my own that I'm trying to raise right, and I see plenty of bad examples to avoid all around me. Lots of people being parents who shouldn't be (and if the Supreme Court goes and makes abortion illegal, there's going to be a lot more soon).

Whole thing just makes me sad and tired. I think the best we can do is lead by example, and let our example be seen. Want to help? Volunteer with a mentoring program, or other youth group, or your local school.

Just went to a funeral myself, last weekend, but the death was due to surgery complications, nothing violent thank god.

ny32182
October 19, 2005, 01:16 PM
Sportcat,

Where did this take place? It wasn't Anderson, was it?

To the rest, I'm not super religious. In fact, I believe man isn't capable of handling group religion on a large scale and remaining rational about it. And still, I've managed to go through life without killing anyone yet. Fancy that.

pax
October 19, 2005, 01:26 PM
Deep breath, everyone.

From the Forum Rules (http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html):
We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line".

This thread is teetering right on the edge between appropriate and inappropriate for THR.

As a Christian myself, on a personal level I certainly sympathize with those who are saying that the lack of a standard by which to judge morals is a bad thing.

But on a more objective level, I need to observe that THR is not the place for comparative religion. If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry -- but that's the way it is.

Carry on.

Oh, to the original poster, Sportcat: good for you for showing up at the funeral and supporting the family. If you come across a news article about the situation, or hear more details, please do post them!

pax

Sportcat
October 19, 2005, 02:16 PM
Robbery and shooting connected?
By Meryl Dillman Anderson Independent-Mail
October 17, 2005

The Anderson County Sheriff's Office doesn't know yet if a Thursday evening shooting and a Thursday evening robbery are connected.

"We're still trying to put two and two together," said Susann Griffin, Sheriff's office spokeswoman.

On Thursday around 8:45 p.m., James "Pete" Wells, 44, was approached by a man while returning to his car after picking up food from Bamboo Gardens Chinese Restaurant at 209 S.C. 28 Bypass in Anderson County. He was shot in the chest and head. He died in surgery at AnMed Health Medical Center.

The restaurant shares a parking lot with Quality Foods, which is located at 207 S.C. 28 Bypass.

The robbery's victim had just left Quality Foods around 4 p.m., after cashing a check at the grocery. The robbery took place at the intersection of Airline Road and Hayes Road. The victim was traveling down Airline Road when a following car passed her. The driver pulled in front of her and forced her to stop. The car's passenger got out and put a revolver in the victim's face and demanded money. She was not injured.

Susann Griffin, Sheriff's Office spokeswoman, said the victim of the robbery thinks the car the suspect got out of was a Ford Taurus or a Ford Contour and was "purplish in color." Ms. Griffin said there might be a correlation between the two incidents, but the office doesn't know for sure. She said it hopes to know more within the next few days. Several tips have been called in, but investigators don't yet have anything concrete.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
James "Pete" Wells was murdered during a Thursday robbery attempt. His church plans to help find the person responsible for his death.
Gethsemane Baptist Temple plans to offer a $25,000(cq) reward to anyone who provides information that leads to an arrest, said Angie Gilstrap(cq with her on the phone), secretary of the church(cq with her on phone).
Ms. Gilstrap said the church is giving authorities a few days to solve the case, but if they don’t, the church will offer the reward. At Sunday’s 11 a.m. service, the church voted to take the reward money out of the church budget, Ms. Gilstrap said.
"We just felt like we wanted to do something to help," she said.
Anyone with information on either incident is asked to call the Anderson County Sheriff’s Office tip line at (864) 332- 5453.

ny32182
October 19, 2005, 02:23 PM
Very sad. Wish I could carry more often than I am able to currently.

Sportcat
October 19, 2005, 02:34 PM
Very sad. Wish I could carry more often than I am able to currently.

I wish I could carry back and forth to work, but parking on campus prevents thats. Hopefully we'll be able to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol someday.

MAUSER88
October 19, 2005, 04:08 PM
It's more of a "urban people" problem IMHO.

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/050913_crime.htm

mole
October 19, 2005, 06:35 PM
I was there today. I take my grandmother grocery shopping there sometimes when I come to visit. I guess we won't be going back for a while. Since I'm from GA I couldn't carry in Anderson if I wanted to. :mad:

outfieldjack
October 21, 2005, 10:20 PM
I was there today. I take my grandmother grocery shopping there sometimes when I come to visit. I guess we won't be going back for a while. Since I'm from GA I couldn't carry in Anderson if I wanted to. :mad:

I think a NH permit will solve that problem...

Sportcat
October 22, 2005, 12:20 AM
South Carolina does not recognize NH's permit.

dpesec
October 22, 2005, 12:24 AM
Sportcat, take a look at Packing.org. The site has a good tool that lets you see what permits are valid in each state. I would have checked there but right at the moment it's not up. :uhoh:

Sportcat
October 22, 2005, 11:33 AM
http://www.packing.org/state/new_hampshire/image.php?stateimage=53

Appears NH's permit is not recognized by SC.

jondar
October 22, 2005, 08:21 PM
We had something like that happen a few miles up the road from where I live. Seven in the evening, man pulls into a car wash, starts washing his van, Car pulls up behind his van with four young men, two of them illegals.
Two get out, approach the man, demand his money. He refuses. One thug draws a pot metal handgun fires two shots. The guy's wife, screaming holds his head off the wet floor while one of their three kids runs in search of a phone. He dies on the floor. All four perps are caught, all point fingers at the other. What a way to leave this earth, two shots from a pot metal .22.

luxone
October 22, 2005, 08:39 PM
This is a very sad story. The family is in my prayers.

At sixty two years of age I find it better to just stay home at night.

At twenty five years old, I find it the same way.

I'm sorry to see people who take this approach. I refuse to live in fear. I will do my best to prepare myself for bad situations and I will hope that these preperations save me. I will not stay at home out of fear! This type of approach just hands our world to the BG's.

Sportcat
October 27, 2005, 11:09 AM
http://www.wyff4.com/news/5182657/detail.html

Deputies Release Gunman Sketch In Parking Lot Homicide
Man Shot, Killed During Attempted Robbery

POSTED: 4:16 pm EDT October 26, 2005
UPDATED: 9:39 am EDT October 27, 2005

Email This Story | Print This Story

ANDERSON -- Investigators have released a sketch of man they believe shot and killed a man during an attempted robbery earlier this month.

James "Pete" Wells was shot in the parking lot of Quality Foods on the Highway 28 Bypass on Oct. 13 and later died at Anderson Area Medical Center.

No arrests have been made so far.

Members of Wells' church are offering a $25,000 reward for information that will lead to an arrest.


Anyone with any information is asked to call CrimeStoppers at 231-STOP.

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