[Stinkyshoe]

First off, this is not a caliber war.

Doubletap offers some really hot 9mm. Here are the specs. on one load...

"DoubleTap has now developed 9mm loads! These loads are low flash and really move. All three loadings are +p rated and deliver quite a punch! The 9 is just fine! Now available!

Caliber : 9mm

Bullet : Gold Dot JHP

Ballistics : 115gr @ 1415fps / 511ft. lbs. from a G17."

There is not a whole lot of difference between this load, and that of the 357 sig ammo they make.

My question is with loads like this available for 9mm, why does the 9 get such a bad reputation? Is it because there aren't statistcs that support these hot loads(meaning DBtap or comparible) as a proven fight stopper? The 357 sig seems to have about 70 more ft-lbs energy that the 9mm(dbtap that is) and the 357 sig is a well proven round.

I know people who criticize the 9mm heavily(the typical chairborne commando :) ) because of it's weakness, but use UMC 45 ball as their primary defense round(which isn't exactly very hot). I realize that a 9mm might expand, but a 45 won't shrink. But I am just confused by this type of double speech. A handgun is a poor weapon as best, so for ammo we'd actually use when our life is being threatened, it'd make sense to get the hottest, most powerful stuff available(that functions 100%). So I guess my question is does a 9mm that puts out over 500 ft-lbs have any disadvantage when compared to a 45 that puts out 500 ft-lbs?(The basis of this question is the fact that the SS carrying 357 sig, and the dbtapp 9mm is putting out almost the same level of energy with the same diameter bullet. They obviously felt that there was an advantage of the 357 sig over the 45, maybe for a tactical reasons) I guess maybe what I am saying is, if a hot 9mm won't take carry of it, you need a rifle.

[JeepDriver]

A handgun is a poor weapon as best,

if a hot 9mm won't take carry of it, you need a rifle.

Those 2 statements answered your question.

I love 9mm's I can shoot a fairly large amount of them every month and I have gotten pretty good with my 2 primary carry/Home defence pistols. But it's still a pistol round, no matter how hot you crank it up to it still isn't a 308 or a 12ga:evil:

[Kurush]

My question is with loads like this available for 9mm, why does the 9 get such a bad reputation?Because people hear about how much the 9mm FMJ the Army uses sucks and how much 1980s JHPs sucked and don't realize how much JHPs have improved over the past 20 years.

[Amadeus]

You know what, Stinky. Don't even bother trying to get your head around the .45 v. 9mm debate. It's a topic that won't die. Probably because people just like to make noise and hear themselves talk. The caliber war is such a minor detail in contrast to all the other dung we humans have to deal with every day.

I switched from 9mm to .45 about a year ago. This past week I sold the .45 for a variety of reasons and returned to my 9mm. I feel very well protected with either round. You should as well. And don't worry about why anyone debates over the two calibers. Just enjoy shooting your guns. Get good at shooting your guns. And hope you never have to use your guns to defend yourself. Life is easier that way.

[MDG1976]

9mm can offer 85% of the 45 acp's performance at 50% of the cost. And hold twice as many rounds.

[Stinkyshoe]

You guys remind me why this place is called the highroad. I do appreciate your responses very much(ofcourse, maybe the only reason this has been so positive toward the nine is because none of the 45ers would 'lessen' themselves to a discussion of the worlds worst handgun cartridge :) :eek:...just joking you guys rock...I think I am right there with ya!)

You are absolutely right, Amadeus, it would be a terrible unfortunate situation if a gun had to be involved to protect oneself or family. But it is also necessary to be prepared. The advantage I see to the 9 is the amount of practice that can be attained at a lower cost. Perhaps the only thing to trump the 9 would be a 22 conversion, like the Advantage Arms (which are super awesome btw, on a g17 frame, the assembled conversion is weightless, and the one I shot at a friends work flawlessly.)

JD, yep, you pretty much summed it up. You don't bring a 'switch' to a pinata party, you bring a hickory stick :eek: :what: :uhoh: :rolleyes:

Any thoughts on dbtap 9mm compared to 357 sig?

[Nematocyst]

Any thoughts on dbtap 9mm compared to 357 sig? Stinkyshoe, I'll be watching with interest for responses to that one.

You may also find some useful info in this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=157804) where several have been educating me recently about the virtues of .357 for a couple of weeks. (I'm a K9 owner, looking hard at .357's as an addition to my arsenal, not a replacement. Love my K9.)

Nem