[News] Tough clash ahead in Brazil referendum to ban guns


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October 16, 2005, 06:00 PM
Original article at http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051015...il_dc&printer=1


Tough clash ahead in Brazil referendum to ban guns

By Andrei Khalip
Fri Oct 14, 8:25 PM ET

Dire campaign ads warning that Brazilians could be made defenseless against any Nazi-like tyranny have not budged Lourdes Lima in her plan to vote to ban gun sales in a national referendum.

"I'm sick and tired of guns, we see them or hear them every day. I made up my mind and will vote to ban them," the 54-year-old street sweeper said, crumpling a leaflet warning of the dangers of disarmament by showing Hitler giving a Nazi salute. "I don't know who's this guy anyway."

Brazil's October 23 vote on whether to ban gun sales, which the government says is the world's first nationwide referendum on firearms, is being watched closely by gun makers and opponents across the globe as a referendum that could set a precedent for campaigns in other countries.

Brazil has the highest number of gun deaths in the world, with 36,091 people shot and killed last year, according to government figures.

Over 120 million people are expected to vote on the bill in Brazil, where voting is compulsory. Television and radio ads financed by groups on both sides of the debate have bombarded Brazilians.

"Those who want disarmament, raise your right hand," read the pro-gun leaflet, alluding to Nazi Germany's decision to ban guns for civilians in 1938.

Since the media blitz started several weeks ago, support for the ban has fallen and it now looks like voters are increasingly split on the issue.

Just two months ago, polls showed 80 percent would vote for the ban. A survey released on Friday showed that number had plummeted to 45 percent.

Even the government is divided. President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva endorses the ban. But his vice president and defense minister, Jose Alencar, says the ban would encourage criminals.

VIOLENT CRIME

Human rights groups endorse the government-proposed ban, dismissing as absurd claims it would be a threat to democracy. But some groups acknowledge the prohibition of legal gun sales would not reduce the arsenals held by dreaded drug gangs and other criminals, as Lima hopes.

Almost 60 percent of an estimated 17 million guns in Brazil were obtained illegally, said human and social rights group Viva Rio.

Over the past year, violent shootouts between drug gangs armed with assault rifles have often shut the scenic ocean-side road connecting Rio's famous Leblon and Sao Conrado beaches.

"The population is unprotected, left at the mercy of armed thugs, while the government is not investing in security," said Alberto Fraga, a legislator who leads the gun lobby. "This vote doesn't disarm the criminals," he said.

If Latin America's largest country votes in favor of the ban, all sales of guns and ammunition to civilians will be halted, leaving those who already have registered firearms without bullets.

Police, judges, firefighters and security firms will be able to buy guns for private and official use, sales that are likely to sustain local manufacturers like Forjas Taurus whose pistols are also popular in the United States. Taurus exports rose 41 percent last year.

Brazil's gun control laws, which were tightened in December 2003, are already very strict. They require psychological and gun-handling tests, a clean criminal record and high registration fees that are too costly for many Brazilians.

The government says the tough legislation helped cut gun deaths last year from 2003, when they totaled over 39,000 -- the first drop in 13 years.

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1 old 0311
October 16, 2005, 06:22 PM
Hell yes they should ban them. Look at the places it has worked................. well never mind:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


Kevin

Kurush
October 16, 2005, 06:30 PM
Sounds like a bad idea to me, how are the politicians going to protect themselves from assassins if they can't have armed bodyguards.

What? Oh... never mind.

fedlaw
October 16, 2005, 06:40 PM
"I'm sick and tired of guns, we see them or hear them every day. I made up my mind and will vote to ban them," the 54-year-old street sweeper said, crumpling a leaflet warning of the dangers of disarmament by showing Hitler giving a Nazi salute. "I don't know who's this guy anyway."

George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

solareclipse
October 16, 2005, 07:09 PM
George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."


I think that having quoted him says a lot about those who blindly vote based on irrelevancy.. he is tired of hearing about them, so he will ban them :rolleyes:

I wish their law abiding citizens best of luck.

beerslurpy
October 16, 2005, 07:10 PM
You would think a fight between people who love guns and people who hate guns should be a very short fight indeed.

Why do I suspect that the fight is really between ordinary people who like guns and people who also like guns but consider themselves better than ordinary people.

And the hilarious thing is that this will be done in the name of socialism and equality.

chaim
October 16, 2005, 07:20 PM
Police, judges, firefighters and security firms will be able to buy guns for private and official use...
Firefighters?

Anyway, if guns are banned they should be banned for everyone. Why should some gov't employees be priveleged and allowed to buy private guns if no one else can? What makes it safer for a judge than an executive to own a gun? Why does a firefighter need one more than a doctor? A security firm (for private use) more than a plumber (who goes into many strange homes everyday)? I sort of understand if you are banning guns to allow government entities to own them and issue as needed, but to allow private sales to certain classes of government employees? Not really a surprise though- gun grabbers trying to set up different classes of citizens, elites? What a shock.

Needless to say, I think it is an absolutely stupid idea.

...sales that are likely to sustain local manufacturers like Forjas Taurus whose pistols are also popular in the United States. Taurus exports rose 41 percent last year.If Brazil passes such a law and shows how truly anti-gun they are, why should Taurus stay? Also, as the article states, maybe the limited sales would be enough to allow Taurus to stay in business (especially with their US sales) but unless they could hugely increase exports wouldn't the government be legislating a huge drop in profits (and thus even a risk of going out of business despite what "experts" say, and at minimum a huge drop in value for the stockholders/owners). Brazil would have proven its total opposition to Taurus' livelihood (as well as, at minimum, causing tons of layoffs, lower income for the owners, and probably less $ for R&D and thus fewer new models for the export market here), Taurus already does a ton of business in the US and has a large US subsidiary. I think if this passes Taurus should pick up and move its operations to the US.

akluvr
October 16, 2005, 07:21 PM
One wonders if this will effect the prices of their products shipped out of country. It would just go to figure that if they did not want their own folks to have guns, that someone in the gov't would try to profit from the "evil" being shipped abroad. And the deal with the street sweeper that had no idea who Hitler was? Wow, she might be our next president.

Leonardo
October 16, 2005, 08:17 PM
Firefighters?
Only military firefighters.

Anyway, if guns are banned they should be banned for everyone. Why should some gov't employees be priveleged and allowed to buy private guns if no one else can? What makes it safer for a judge than an executive to own a gun? Why does a firefighter need one more than a doctor? A security firm (for private use) more than a plumber (who goes into many strange homes everyday)? I sort of understand if you are banning guns to allow government entities to own them and issue as needed, but to allow private sales to certain classes of government employees? Not really a surprise though- gun grabbers trying to set up different classes of citizens, elites? What a shock.
Because those gov't employees are dealing directly with criminals. They are subject to retaliation by gang members and whatnot.
For example, some cops living in high criminality areas have to keep their profession a secret in order to stay alive. In Rio, for example, some cops are killed just to have their guns stolen. Sad, but true.

Needless to say, I think it is an absolutely stupid idea.

If Brazil passes such a law and shows how truly anti-gun they are, why should Taurus stay? Also, as the article states, maybe the limited sales would be enough to allow Taurus to stay in business (especially with their US sales) but unless they could hugely increase exports wouldn't the government be legislating a huge drop in profits (and thus even a risk of going out of business despite what "experts" say, and at minimum a huge drop in value for the stockholders/owners). Brazil would have proven its total opposition to Taurus' livelihood (as well as, at minimum, causing tons of layoffs, lower income for the owners, and probably less $ for R&D and thus fewer new models for the export market here), Taurus already does a ton of business in the US and has a large US subsidiary. I think if this passes Taurus should pick up and move its operations to the US.
I believe Taurus have been investing in other business here for some time. Since most their production is already exported, a gun ban will not take them out of business. But like I said in another thread, they may move the entire production to Miami. In this case, 1500 direct jobs would be lost. Way to go!

Leonardo
October 16, 2005, 08:20 PM
My post from the other thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160995)...
--
A market research between october 11th and 13th, with 2002 electors, showed that between 46,8% and 51,2% would vote "no" (against the gun ban), while 42,8-47,2% would vote "yes". So there is still hope.
It's sad though, because only 8 days from the referendum a lot of people still don't know exactly what they're voting for. Some people still don't know the difference between being able to own a gun and to carry one. Civilians can't carry guns since 2003 (although I believe those who already had the permit can still renew it). If approved, the referendum will allow gun sales only for those who can get the permit to carry them (police, military, etc).
Likewise, we still hear people justifying their vote in favor the gun ban with statements like "I wish guns didn't exist". Guess what? They exist, deal with it. Unfortunately the campaigns both in favor and against the gun ban lack depth and information, appealing to the emotional or showing incomplete statistics.

On a side note, I've read that Glock is waiting authorization from the Army to build a factory here. According to the article they plan to use Brazil as a production and exportation base for Latin America, Africa and part of Asia, especially China. This because the legislation of EU, which Austria is part of, do not allow the sale of armaments to countries in conflict. Unfortunately they have no interest in the civilian market here.
That and the gun ban could result with Taurus moving the whole production to Miami.

SIGarmed
October 16, 2005, 08:32 PM
What do you expect from a country that has no 2nd Amendment rights like in the United States?

I hope it never happens for the sake of people living in Brazil. More violent crime will surely follow. All compliments of elitists who really don't care for the common folks.

What is also bad is similar so called "human right" groups are trying to convince citizens and legislators here in the United States that we should follow suit with heavy gun control restrictions.

The gun ban socialists in the UN will chalk this one up as another victory if Brazilians are disarmed. Making life safer for violent criminals everywhere! That should be the UN's new moto.

Standing Wolf
October 16, 2005, 09:56 PM
I think the law is subtitled "Full Employment Act for Violent Criminals" in Portugese.

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