Dubious Gunshop Purchases.


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Redlg155
March 30, 2003, 02:28 PM
Went to a local shop today searching for the ever elusive in my budget priced Finn Nagant and got to witness an interesting conversation.

A buyer comes in and wants a Jennings type .380 pistol for $95.00. The proceeds to put it on layaway and the buyer states he needs 6 of them ordered. The owner says no problem, but he needs a bit of a larger deposit. Other than that he had no problems with the transaction. He tells the guy to come back on a certain date to pick them up.

Needless to say it made goosebumps rise on my skin when I heard the quantity.

I know business is all about making money, but come on....there is a point where you have to stop and think why. A guy wants 6 indentical guns. Obviously he isn't a collector of weapons and he doesn't need 6 of them so he can have spares.

Just curious, anyone here witness the same thing from dealers, or as a dealer would you complete the transaction?

Good SHooting
RED

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George Hill
March 30, 2003, 02:52 PM
Maybe he is going to resell them. Maybe he wants to arm all the adults in his family. Maybe he is making a wall hanging. Who cares?
Goosebumps?
:rolleyes:
We are still in the United States, right?

Let him buy a couple hundred! It's his right.
:fire:

Standing Wolf
March 30, 2003, 03:17 PM
Other people's guns are none of my business unless they're committing crimes with them.

bastiat
March 30, 2003, 03:26 PM
Maybe he's investing for when they have one of those gun buyback things. Buy six jennings @ $95 each, wait for a $150 gun buyback. Make $330.

El Tejon
March 30, 2003, 03:28 PM
Red,:o, surely you don't think that just some chucklehead comes in and buys multiple copies of the same weapon that something sinister is afoot? He could just be a darn gun nut/tacgolfer!:D

Justin
March 30, 2003, 03:35 PM
Hmmm...buys six Jennings at a go? Maybe he's applying the beer can principle to them. Shoot one empty, crush it against forehead, toss it away and repeat.

jsalcedo
March 30, 2003, 03:56 PM
I know people put several of the same type gun in different places
around their place of business.

So whan the bad guy comes knocking you have a familiar weapon
at what ever area you are in and possible multiples if you run out of ammo.


For those of you who read American Handgunner, there is a great story in there about this method used to great success to thwart a jewelry store robbery.

Check it out

Tom B
March 30, 2003, 05:39 PM
He wants 7 Jennings so he can reliably go thru 1 mag of ammo! :what:

Wildalaska
March 30, 2003, 05:43 PM
I think the dealer in question is risking way too much for that sale.

Know your customer, however.

WildcommonsenseAlaska

cool45auto
March 30, 2003, 06:02 PM
I read a Mas Ayoob story in a gun magazine where a jewelry store owner had bought like 10 snubbie revolvers to keep under his case at different intervals. Maybe it was something like that.:confused:

voilsb
March 30, 2003, 06:11 PM
I know people put several of the same type gun in different places
around their place of business.that's what I was thinking, except at home. keep one gun in the bedroom, one in the bathroom, kitchen, living area, etc. so that you've got a familiar gun with you no matter where you are when something happens.

gconan
March 30, 2003, 06:31 PM
I am thinking that there is a rule that if you buy more than 2 guns @ the same place the gunstore owner is suppose to notify the atf?

Who would want 1 much less 6 of a "Jennings type"? :what:

bastiat
March 30, 2003, 06:48 PM
The rule is 2 or more handguns within 5 business days gets a little love note sent to the ATF. I never remember the form number, perhaps someone who works in a gun shop can chime in with it.

citizen
March 30, 2003, 08:05 PM
Yeah, strange; so what????

If the deal goes down and nics is ok, BFD. Not your concern.;)

boing
March 30, 2003, 08:06 PM
From the FAQ (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f5) at ATF Online:


If you sell more than one handgun to any nonlicensee during a period of 5 consecutive business days, the sale must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, and forwarded to the ATF office specified on the form no later than the close of business on the day the second handgun was sold. A copy of the form must also be sent to the state police or the local law enforcement agency where the sale occurred. A copy must also be kept in the records of the dealer. [18 U. S. C. 923( g)( 3), 27 CFR 178.126a]

jsalcedo
March 30, 2003, 09:06 PM
Dang I never knew about the 2 handgun thing.

I've never had them say anything to me and I doubt they even remembered that I bought 2 or more.

Is this atf form something that is neglected often?

jrhines
March 30, 2003, 09:43 PM
It better not be neglected. If your the FFL and you enter the data in your bound book, at the next inspection they'll (ATF) want to see the paperwork. Multiple sales to the same person in less than 5 days, yes sir Mr. BATF, I got my copy of the 3310 right here!

blades67
March 30, 2003, 09:48 PM
Redlg155, you should go back to bed, have some chicken soup and get over yourself! :scrutiny:

LiquidTension
March 30, 2003, 10:30 PM
At least in FL you CAN buy more than one handgun in less than five days. Here in SC we have to wait 30 days between handgun purchases. Apparently it makes sense because the only people that NEED to buy more than that are obviously criminals :rolleyes:

TechBrute
March 30, 2003, 10:43 PM
He wants 7 Jennings so he can reliably go thru 1 mag of ammo!
hehehehe...

Sharpie1
March 30, 2003, 11:11 PM
I have no problem with anyone else's gun-buying habits, or even who else is carrying a gun -- as long as they don't point it at me.

TD

samualt
March 30, 2003, 11:38 PM
I think the dealer should have asked if he was buying guns for someone else. Straw sales are illegal.
And if I were a dealer I certainly wouldn't buy/sale Jennings, Phoenix, or any Ring-Of-Fire guns. Shame on that dealer! Shame, Shame, Shame (in my best Gomer Pile voice ;-)
And if he did decide to sell to the man he should have sold him some cheap .38 snubbies. At least they would work and not be dangerous to the shooter, and would probably be more accurate.

The dealer did wrong in any case the way I see it. I wouldn't buy a gun from him.

Tamara
March 30, 2003, 11:50 PM
I think the dealer should have asked if he was buying guns for someone else. Straw sales are illegal.

If he was the actual purchaser, it wasn't a straw purchase. You most certainly can buy guns to give as gifts, as long as the recipient is legal to recieve the gun. If six guys who weren't legal to buy gave him the money, then it's a straw purchase.

I know of a guy who bought el cheapo pistols every year to give as Christmas gifts to his employees; one year they got Helwans, the next year Hi-Points, the year after that it was those cheesy little FMJ derringers. Beats heck out of a fruitcake, if you ask me. ;)

Wildalaska
March 31, 2003, 12:57 AM
know of a guy who bought el cheapo pistols every year to give as Christmas gifts to his employees; one year they got Helwans, the next year Hi-Points, the year after that it was those cheesy little FMJ derringers. Beats heck out of a fruitcake, if you ask me.

Helwans I can see but as toi the rest...gimme fruitcakes...

I assume that the dealer KNEW what this guy was doing..

WildhohohoAlaska

ENC
March 31, 2003, 01:17 AM
I have wanted for several years to buy the exact same gun (one for me one for each of my brothers) to give as a christmas gift. I would go with something cheap yet reliable like a makorov or a Kel-Tec. I would want each one to have the same special engraving. I just haven't came up with the right engraving. Let alone the $$ for six guns that I am going to give away:D

Redlg155
March 31, 2003, 01:21 AM
Well, it's good to see a strong show of support for the guy making the multiple purchase. Perhaps my job makes me see the more sinister side of life at times. But then perhaps it was his mannerisms and type of dress that lead me to believe that he was perhaps gang affiliated.

I would guess that if he does in fact does something illegal I shall be seeing him soon enough. :D


Let him buy a couple hundred! It's his right.

Ok..fine. But would you put your license on the line if you weren't 100 percent satisfied that what he would be doing with the weapons were legal, even if he passed the necessary background checks?

On the same note, no one here has ever not sold a weapon to a person in a private sale when they weren't 100 percent comfortable with the transaction?

Good Shooting
RED

cratz2
March 31, 2003, 01:31 AM
Oh sure... I was privy to one in particular. Was at a shop when two guys come in, one skinnier that did the talking, one heavier guy that stood off down one of the aisles with his hands in his pockets. The guy that did the talking was asking about Glocks vs SIGs saying phrases like (needs to be ready to shoot as quick as possible) and then starts talking caliber. First asks about which would be best at shooting through 'police kevlar' and then asks which is best at shooting into sheet metal and through auto glass. Seems pretty well informed and mentions 9mm, 40 45 and 10mm on his own. Decides on 10mm and looks at a G20 and a G29. Decides he likes the G20 and says he wants 10 of them. They guy said he had 3 or 4 and could have the rest in a few days.

I got out of the store pretty quick but noticed the shop worker that wasn't helping them and wasn't helping me had his hand firmly on his Glock. The guy talking was very well spoken but the intentions were questionable at the very best.

Intune
March 31, 2003, 11:14 AM
I am not a shop owner but let me say this, as soon as the guy starts talkin' about shooting through "police kevlar" I am going to give his information to one of the three-letter agencies in addition to the local LEO's. This is NOT a joking matter. I wouldn't sell him the guns and I would warn local shops about these characters. :fire:

cratz2
March 31, 2003, 02:32 PM
I agree intune, but some folks greed overrides their desire for a safe society. As I recall, the 20s were priced at $550 and the guy was buying 10 of them.

Greed... Or maybe orders from higher ups not to do anything that might lead to a discrimination lawsuit. I don't know.

KMKeller
March 31, 2003, 02:44 PM
Hmmm...buys six Jennings at a go? Maybe he's applying the beer can principle to them. Shoot one empty, crush it against forehead, toss it away and repeat. ROFLMAO! What a mental picture that conjures.

gino
March 31, 2003, 04:04 PM
Interesting thread. I personally do like to hear stories of gunshops refusing to sell guns to people who give off the wrong vibe. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the freedom thing we forget about the resposibility thing...

Redlg155, I'm with you on this one.

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