How to reply to my friend who says this


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GunGoBoom
October 18, 2005, 05:26 PM
OK, my hunting bud loves rifles and hunts a lot, and even distrusts the gov't to a high degree - so far we're on the same page. He even owns a couple of handguns, and keeps a .357 revolver in the car for protection. He also owns a couple of ARs, though he sees no 'need' for them, and only bought them for the sake of (a) investment, and (b) just to have it in his collection. BUT, he will not carry a gun or apply for a CCW. Says he has no need for that. But what about protecting your (new) family I say? (he's getting married soon). His response, and the one to which I want the best possible reply was "You're more likely to shoot yourself jacking with your pistols, than I would likely need a gun due to a criminal attack." Now I certainly don't think he's right - I know he's not - but what's the best way to reply? I'm thinking trot out the statistics of 2 million defensive gun uses, vs. "X" number of accidental shooting deaths - you do the math, type response. But what is the "X"? What are the number of accidental shootings per year in the United States? Thanks.

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HighVelocity
October 18, 2005, 05:31 PM
"You're more likely to shoot yourself jacking with your pistols, than I would likely need a gun due to a criminal attack."

By making that statement your friend has already pre-destined himself to have a ND.

The only thing that will turn around somebody with that mindset is an dangerous encounter. Hopefully he and his family will survive it.

sumpnz
October 18, 2005, 05:32 PM
Try here (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/) for the CDC data. You can break it down by age, type of death (inc. accidental vs intentional), and others factors.

12-34hom
October 18, 2005, 05:35 PM
He has his opinions - you have yours - leave it at that. - simple.

12-34hom.

pax
October 18, 2005, 05:39 PM
12-34hom's about right.

If you have to argue about it, go find the crime statistics for your city & neighborhood. Let him see them. Chances are he'll point out that his own neighborhood is pretty safe. Agree with him.

Then point out that you, and only you, determine when & where your gun is fired -- but that every crook in the entire city makes his own choice about where he's going to commit an assault, rape, or murder each night.

Pleasant dreams.

pax

sumpnz
October 18, 2005, 05:41 PM
For 2002 there were a total of 762 unintentional firearm deaths (and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if at least some of those accidents were suicides made to look accidental so the family would still get the life insurance, or murders made to look self-inflicted and ruled as an accident). Compare that to the minimum 60,000 DGU's per year that even the anti's will admit to and it's not hard to see that the odds are in your favor. The pro-gunnies will state the there are closer to 2-3million DGU's per year, but I'm inclined to believe somewhere more in the neighborhood of .5-1million. Still, the odds are overwhelming in favor of carrying being the safer option than not.

Standing Wolf
October 18, 2005, 05:57 PM
Firearms aren't toys. Some people seem to believe they are. Some people believe everyone else thinks they are.

According to the evidence—"accidental" firearms injuries and deaths—the vast majority of Americans don't believe firearms are toys.

Henry Bowman
October 18, 2005, 06:10 PM
Tip: Don't show him the Mr. Rasta-DEA Agent "I'm the only person professional enough in this room to handle a Glock 40 -- BANG" video. :uhoh:

Thumper
October 18, 2005, 06:19 PM
Then point out that you, and only you, determine when & where your gun is fired -- but that every crook in the entire city makes his own choice about where he's going to commit an assault, rape, or murder each night.

I see you're still hitting the X ring, Pax.

Those who agree with us may not be right, but we admire their astuteness.-Cullen Hightower

KONY
October 18, 2005, 06:23 PM
Tip: Don't show him the Mr. Rasta-DEA Agent "I'm the only person professional enough in this room to handle a Glock 40 -- BANG" video. :uhoh:

I still love that video! :D

gulogulo1970
October 18, 2005, 06:31 PM
Let him live his own life.

He's not being reckless just because he doesn't want a CCL, its just one choice in a life full of choices.

GunGoBoom
October 18, 2005, 06:34 PM
Let him live his own life.

He's not being reckless just because he doesn't want a CCL, its just one choice in a life full of choices.

You and Hom and others are absolutely right.

OK, thanks. Yeah, I'm inclined to let it lie - and just let him make his decisions with his own opinions. BUT, I just want him to have good info from which to make good decisions, and give him one last thing to chew on before I drop it, in a nice friendly way. I like the guy a lot, so I really think it'd be in his own best interest to 'see the light', and just put to USE the handguns he already has paid for. Ultimately, I won't press it or argue with him of course - but I'm going to proselytize the gospel of the armed citizen just a smidge first.

Old Fuff
October 18, 2005, 06:44 PM
Each of you has a right to decide what is right, and what too do...

But each of you are also responsible for the consequences ...

You can, if necessary, defend yourself and/or your family.

He may not be able too.

His choice .... Your choice.

Zundfolge
October 18, 2005, 06:50 PM
You're more likely to shoot yourself jacking with your pistols, than I would likely need a gun due to a criminal attack.

uh ... then don't be "jacking with" your pistols ... pretty simple if you ask me :scrutiny:

antsi
October 18, 2005, 06:57 PM
Let him live his own life.

He's not being reckless just because he doesn't want a CCL, its just one choice in a life full of choices.

As long as he supports the right of others to carry, I don't have an argument with the guy.

My only quarrel is when people use the Argument From Incompetence to advocate restricting the rights of others. If people say, "hey, I am too incompetent to carry," I will not argue with them because there is a chance they may be right. If they say, "you are too incompetent to carry," or "everyone is too incompetent to carry," then we have an argument.

Lonestar.45
October 18, 2005, 07:20 PM
Carry isn't for everyone. With an attitude like his, it may be better that he doesn't carry. I don't think you'll change his mind with a few stats and some one liners. He'll either eventually come around, or he won't.

A friend of mine was like you, and I was like your friend. I didn't see the need to carry or get my CHL. My friend bugged me for a while about it, then finally just let it drop. After several years of knowing that he carried without incident, and more recently after seeing the fiasco down in NOLA, I convinced myself I needed to get my CHL. But there's nothing he could have told me that would have made me go do it. I had to figure it out on my own. Good luck.

Mannlicher
October 18, 2005, 07:53 PM
Really there is nothing to say. Folks make the decsion to carry or not based on their view of the world. It's their call.

Hardtarget
October 18, 2005, 08:32 PM
I've been slaped with the " I live in a good neighborhood" line several times.My reply is "and the criminals have CARS...and they `shop' in good neighborhoods" :D I don't know if it ever gets the wheels turning,but, I don't hear it from the same person twice.
Mark.

el44vaquero
October 18, 2005, 08:45 PM
To each their own. May the “officially sanctioned and politically correct entity” bless this great country of ours and the freedom of choice we have.

MachIVshooter
October 18, 2005, 11:09 PM
As long as he supports the right of others to carry, I don't have an argument with the guy.



+1

About the best you can do is point out a couple examples that give good reason to carry. But packing is an intimate personal decision, and if someone is not truly comfortable in doing so it would likely cause more harm than good to persuede them. It must be done entirely of their own accord.

Jubei
October 19, 2005, 12:12 AM
It's his choice whether or not to carry, and whether or not he feels he has the competance to handle the handgun.

The only thing I would have him think about is; as the man in the relationship, it falls to him to provide and protect his family, and IF, God forbid, the day should come that he needed the protection, and did not have it, his family may be the ones to pay the most.

If I offend anyone that is sexually liberated, I apologize, I'm a bit old-fashioned.

Jubei

grimjaw
October 19, 2005, 01:35 AM
Is his argument that he sees no need for CCW for him personally, or that no one needs it? If it's the former, that's his choice and it should be respected. If it's the latter, then I'd respectfully disagree.

jmm

triggertime
October 19, 2005, 06:44 AM
I hate to say it, but he's already chosen his destiny and is bound to fall victim to the natural selection process. I'd forget about him and let nature take its course.

AnthonyRSS
October 19, 2005, 08:57 AM
So he keeps a gun in his car for protection, but won't keep one on his person? Its funny how people who have lame or silly reasons for not carrying or silly opinions about guns also can't seem to get their logic straight...

Sawdust
October 19, 2005, 10:16 AM
Feh, just wait 'til he has kids.

Woke me up. ;)


Sawdust

Sinsaba
October 19, 2005, 10:48 AM
ask him to find just 5 instances in your area where the police actually stopped a crime (as opposed to arresting someone for actually committing it)

I'll be amazed if he can find 1

middy
October 19, 2005, 02:16 PM
That's why I don't "jack" with my pistol, it goes in the holster and it stays there. I don't take it out to show it to people, or check it, or admire it... like Tuner would say, "It ain't a toy and it ain't your friend."

Joey2
October 19, 2005, 10:21 PM
If he will listen to you give him the statistics and the rest is up to him.

CAPTAIN MIKE
October 19, 2005, 11:17 PM
Rule # 1: Don't "jack" with your sidearm. Consistently practice basic firearm safety. When in dout, refer to Rule # 3.

Rule #2: Just as you have a spare tire 'just in case' and a spare house key 'just in case' and a fire extinguisher 'just in case' get your CCW permit and some tactical training & practice and keep it to protect yourself and your loved ones 'just in case. Hopefully you'll never have to use your spare tire, your spare housekey, your fire extinguisher or your firearm. Keep Rule # 3 in mind.

Rule #3: You have a DUTY to protect your family. Do your duty,
And don't forget Rule # 1.

cuervo
October 20, 2005, 11:36 AM
...keeps a .357 revolver in the car for protection...

Depending on where you live and where he keeps the .357 in the car, he may already carrying concealed and may be breaking the law.

mainmech48
October 20, 2005, 01:01 PM
While I appreciate your concern for your friend, I have to agree with the others who've counselled letting it lie.

IMHO, there're so many levels of wishfull thinking and denial going on in that head of his that I'm afraid that only experiencing and, hopefully, surviving a Darwinian Moment is going to change his attitude. I'm afraid that no amount of reasoned rhetorical argument is likely to do it, as it's my impression that he seems to believe that since he already has the requisite Talismans (firearms) they will somehow magically empower him to rise to the challenge in the Gravest Extreme.

As long as he believes that any potential threat is too nebulous to warrant serious concern and preparation, there's unfortunately not much of substance you can do about it.

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