Ca. It figures. Illegals are now able to get Worker's Comp..


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bg
October 20, 2005, 04:37 AM
I just don't know what my state is coming to. Why give these people
anything at all ? Now they're entitled to Worker's Comp. No wonder this
state is so broke and messed up. Vets in the streets, yet illegal invaders
can get state dough..
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2005/oct/19/101902934.html
"California law has expressly declared immigration status irrelevant to the issue of liability to pay compensation to an injured worker," the three-judge panel said in a unanimous ruling issued late Monday.
:cuss:

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71Commander
October 20, 2005, 05:05 AM
Good.

Why did the employer hire illegals in the first place? Trying to screw the system and got burned. I hope he gets sued and goes broke. I have no sympathy for any one who hires illegals, and no it doesn't make our country stronger by doing so.

thorn726
October 20, 2005, 05:13 AM
this is actually a step in the right direction.
first off major LOSER bosses hire illegals for extremely dangerous work-
whoops yer dead, sorry.

creates and easy way around all kinds of safety regulations.
for example the ditch diggers who keep getting buried in open trenches.

Why did the employer hire illegals in the first place? Trying to screw the system and got burned. I hope he gets sued and goes broke. I have no sympathy for any one who hires illegals, and no it doesn't make our country stronger by doing so.

exactly, and it makes it slightly more appealing to hire skilled Americans

illegal sues, gets compensation, goes home.
jerk goes broke and AMerican competetion takes his place.

c_yeager
October 20, 2005, 05:48 AM
Idealy what *should* happen is that the employer is required to pay full compensation OUT OF POCKET. This would provide a good incentive to hire actual legal employees, provide a punishment for hiring illegals, and ensure that people injured by American employers are justly compensated for injury.

Janitor
October 20, 2005, 06:50 AM
This is (partly) a good thing. I agree that the illegals should get workmans comp if they get hurt on the job. Yea - they're up here illegally. But they wouldn't be if small (and large) businesses that are trying to cheat the system didn't hire them.

But c_yeager has the right of it. About ZERO of this should come from the tax coffers. While the courts may not want to take immigration status into account in deciding whether or not somebody should get compensation in the first place, they absolutely need to take it into account when they decide where that compensation should come from. The businesses should pay roughly 100% of the bill for this.

And that workman's comp bill should be payed out on top of the fines that should be set against them for hiring illegals in the first place.

-

NCP24
October 20, 2005, 08:28 AM
Oh yea, sticking it to the man. Just wait till this catches on, there be comp claims all over the place.

El Rojo
October 20, 2005, 09:27 AM
Wouldn't it be hard to get worker's comp if you are deported or are we going to forward their checks to a foreign address??? This is good. As soon as they go on assistance, you call La Migra and have them picked up! :evil: Then they will be back next week, but suddenly feeling much better and working again.

ALHunter
October 20, 2005, 09:58 AM
Illegals getting workers' comp benefits is nothing new. They have been able to do so in GA and AL for years now. There are multiple other states granting them this benefit. Why be surprised out of CA.? CA. is offering illegals in-state tuition at CA. schools. That IS a direct burden on taxpayers. Workers' comp benefits are only indirect burdens on taxpayers in the form of higher comp insurance premiums.

The only way it will change is for the workers' comp insurance carriers to put provisions in the policy that they will not cover indemnity or medical benefits for illegals. A problem arises, however, in proving they are illegal. An employer can always claim good faith in reviewing the I-9 documentation submitted by the illegal (assuming the employer got the I-9 info). In depositions and interrogatories with injured workers if you ask if they are here legally, if they have a visa, etc., they just asert the 5th Amendment right to refuse to answer. Makes it tough to get conclusive proof they are illegal.

BSlacker
October 20, 2005, 10:03 AM
Workers Comp is an insurance policy not a State paid program. Very little tax dollars go into this program and little goes directly to the participant. The State administers the activities of the program and that is paid by the participants (mostly employers pay for the admin). So if the illegal paid premiums out of their wages they bought insurance, simple. There is a huge fence to jump over to get benifits and they don't give you a check, money is paid directly to the medical provider providing a huge number of well paid jobs for citizens. Fraud is rampant, but mostly by citizens of the state.
What you are thinking about is unemployment insurance or disability insurance where money is paid directly to the participant to make up for lost wages. Both insurance programs are paid for by the employer and employe and admined by the State in much the same way as the Workers Comp program. These are State programs that have to make up any short fall in revenue to pay claims and this is where the State taxpayers get the shaft. Nowhere are there requirements that one be a citizen to participate in these insurance programs. There may be papers needed to get the job in the first place but not for the programs. You get in with a job from an enrolled employer and you pay you play. So the court was right for now. Lets just change the law. :)

El Tejon
October 20, 2005, 10:22 AM
"Just change the law"?:what:

But, but taking responsibility for the law would mean we could not blame the CFR, the UN, Haliburton and George Bush and wring our hands about "ein volk, ein reich . . .", er, I mean our border, language and culture.

Attempting to change the law would an admission that we are responsible for the law being written the way it is in the first place. I for one would rather blame some sort of scapegoat or bogey man.:p

R.H. Lee
October 20, 2005, 10:31 AM
Employers are required by law to provide worker's compensation insurance at their expense for employees. The purpose is to pay medical expenses for on the job injuries. Why should any employer be exempted from this requirement and rewarded for breaking the law and hiring illegals in the first place? You know damn well that employers who 'hire' illegals are probably paying them 'off the books' anyway to avoid employment taxes (and probably at substandard wages). Why reward bad, illegal behavior? These employers need to be sanctioned, exposed and fined within an inch of bankruptcy, if not jailed also.

longeyes
October 20, 2005, 11:56 AM
One more opening for scams. One more form of stealth welfare for Mexico and Central America winked at by the elites here.

About ZERO of this should come from the tax coffers. While the courts may not want to take immigration status into account in deciding whether or not somebody should get compensation in the first place, they absolutely need to take it into account when they decide where that compensation should come from. The businesses should pay roughly 100% of the bill for this.


Should, yes. But won't. We are way, way beyond "should."

Camp David
October 20, 2005, 12:07 PM
I just don't know what my state is coming to. Why give these people
anything at all ? Now they're entitled to Worker's Comp. No wonder this
state is so broke and messed up.

Best be careful...liberal attitude toward illegals may give them YOUR job too, in addition to medical assistance and protections!

Write your Congressman... demand answers!

This attitude toward criminals is wrong. Yes illegal aliens are criminals; they broke the law. We have laws on immigration; they chose not to follow them. Companies are also breaking the law by hiring them. Since when did breaking the law subject them to national pity?

We are a nation of immigrants from others lands. Most immigrated here legally, following the rules at the times. We shouldn't just stop following the rules, or giving aid to those that do!

Consider: If an illegal alien breaks into you home, kills your family, and leaves, police do not have that person in their database, making this person difficult or impossible to identify. If the unlikely event happens and this person is found after deed, what's to prevent this person claiming diplomatic immunity from the deed? How's nothing sound?

We don't have an illegal alient "problem" in this nation; we have an illegal alien "crisis" and to date we are doing nothing about it.


Write your Congressman... demand answers!

NCP24
October 20, 2005, 12:22 PM
This attitude toward criminals is wrong. Yes illegal aliens are criminals; they broke the law. We have laws on immigration; they chose not to follow them. Companies are also breaking the law by hiring them. Since when did breaking the law subject them to national pity? These people arenít criminals or illegal aliens! They are hard working less fortunate souls who just want to better themselves. Shame on you for not showing compassion and charity to these poor, poor people..

One sec- I have to go puke, been reading too much of the Left-wing Hand book.

Master Blaster
October 20, 2005, 12:22 PM
Employers are required by law to provide worker's compensation insurance at their expense for employees. The purpose is to pay medical expenses for on the job injuries. Why should any employer be exempted from this requirement and rewarded for breaking the law and hiring illegals in the first place? You know damn well that employers who 'hire' illegals are probably paying them 'off the books' anyway to avoid employment taxes (and probably at substandard wages). Why reward bad, illegal behavior? These employers need to be sanctioned, exposed and fined within an inch of bankruptcy, if not jailed also.


+1

Farmer Brothers are the scumbags who are hiring these folks instead of American Workers. They do it because its cheaper and there is no penalty to their bottom line. Now they will be required to pay more money for their workers comp insurance if the policy does not exclude folks who are not legal ( it probably excludes them because the premium is based upon the amount of their official reported to the state payroll illegals are not included). Farmer Bros. will have to pay the injured worker and the hospital directly, instead of him going into the emergency room and the hospital adding it to the overhead they charge folks with insurance like you and I.

The dirtball who hired the illegal gets to pay though the Nose, Sounds good to me.

Too bad immigration will not go through their plant and fine them $100,000 for every illegal working there. Thus reimbursing the state rather than taxing you and I to pay for the illegals these A-holes hire.

The result is that the A-holes will not be inclined to hire illegals that you and I have to subsidize, No jobs for illegals NO ILLEGALS CROSSING THE BORDER.

They have to hire americans or those here legally, and pay all the costs associated with them, rather than spending their money on a fancier car, a boat and vacations in VAIL.
A good thing;)

belton-deer-hunter
October 20, 2005, 12:23 PM
we ae going to see a rise in "illegals" now i live here in texas and they are everywhere you wlk down the street and they blare music in lagues other than englsi to say he least and the ythink that they are owed something i tried to find a job but got turned dow nfor a illegal in all seriousness they can work for half the pay. my grandmother died about a year ago before she was even goan a month the house was sold by my aunt to a reltor noiw there is about 9 illegals living in it around here people see the oppertunity he rents the hoouse they get caught and shipped back 10 more take their palce america will soon be run by people in foregin countrys if you ask me and i am trying to keep this clean for family uses but certain countries have thsi planned to immagrate a larg number of it's citezens to this country le them buy land and then after they own enough jsut simply take over
tell us to leave. another thing i saw two days ago i went to walmart to look afor a ruger 10/22 and there was a guy and his wife there buying a gun and they were selling it to him the only thing i really didnt like was the fact he ws not a us citizen he was a mexican citizen now is this right to sell guns to people from foregin countries? i dont think so jsut my oppion

Standing Wolf
October 20, 2005, 02:38 PM
Considering one driver in five in the People's Republic of California doesn't bother carrying car insurance, I think it would be amusing if one employer in five didn't bother to carry workers' compensation insurance.

Sauce for the goose, you know...

c_yeager
October 21, 2005, 01:31 AM
we ae going to see a rise in "illegals" now i live here in texas and they are everywhere you wlk down the street and they blare music in lagues other than englsi to say he least and the ythink that they are owed something i tried to find a job but got turned dow nfor a illegal in all seriousness they can work for half the pay. my grandmother died about a year ago before she was even goan a month the house was sold by my aunt to a reltor noiw there is about 9 illegals living in it around here people see the oppertunity he rents the hoouse they get caught and shipped back 10 more take their palce america will soon be run by people in foregin countrys if you ask me and i am trying to keep this clean for family uses but certain countries have thsi planned to immagrate a larg number of it's citezens to this country le them buy land and then after they own enough jsut simply take over


Hello pot, i would like to introduce you to this here kettle.

wingman
October 21, 2005, 08:22 AM
Who is the bad guy in this case, employee or employer, perhaps both.


http://acertainslantoflight.blogspot.com/2005/10/illegal-alien-charged-with-23-counts.html

garyk/nm
October 21, 2005, 08:54 AM
Relax.
So immigration status can't be used to determine eligibility, so what?
What can be used is whether or not premiums have been paid for the employee. Insurance companies, not being well known for their generosity, will simply check to see if premiums have been paid; no payment, no claim. Simple.

Or am I way off base? (again):neener:

Baba Louie
October 21, 2005, 10:50 AM
Farmer Brothers are the scumbags who are hiring these folks instead of American Workers.Makes me wonder just how many NORTH AMERICAN WORKERS (USA variety) have lined up to take those high paying back breaking jobs in the past 5 years? 10 years?

I've always thought that these "illegals" are still Americans... just from a little farther south. They're also humans who, for whatever reason, while working in the US as such, should be able to receive compensation when injured during or because of work conditions. That COULD be you or me lugging 100 lb. bags of coffee around, neh?

Even those who were 100% Native (North, South & Central) American had issues with "Illegal Immigrants"... it's who (and what) we are. You get enough English/French/Spanish speaking Europeans together with an unlimited opportunity to flourish, who quickly form an exclusive club (Government) and make up their own new rules about who can join and play...:rolleyes:

I guess that's a good thing. I mean, can you imagine? Some foreigner coming in and actually taking over my job/profession/land because he/she's better/cheaper/faster/stronger/meaner/less honorable? You'd think a free-market capitalistic system based on LIBERTY and self sufficient hard working individuals was at play... wouldn't ya? :evil: Can't have that.

If they're actual criminals, like father rapers and mother stabbers sitting on the group W bench... off wiz dere heads, or make them Federal Slaves (allowed by Constitutional Amendment) to work the fields until their sentenced time is up. I'm sure a liberal judge would never allow either however.

Ahhh. Ironic Sarcasm with just a small twist o' the truth. Goes down so well in the morning. :D

Master Blaster
October 21, 2005, 12:36 PM
Makes me wonder just how many NORTH AMERICAN WORKERS (USA variety) have lined up to take those high paying back breaking jobs in the past 5 years? 10 years?


Maybe you can ask Farmer Bros how successful they are when they offer $3 per hour and no benefits, at attracting americans.

If they were paying a legal wage like minimum or a little above and willing to pay SSI FICA and workers comp. they would have had a long line of americans waiting for the jobs.

But since they can go take advantage of some guys hangin on the corner, who will work for $2 an hour and take all the abuse they can dish out without complaining, and since there was no penalty or risk involved they went with the Illegals and did not even bother looking for americans to hire.;) .

NCP24
October 21, 2005, 01:01 PM
They're also humans who, for whatever reason, while working in the US as such, should be able to receive compensation when injured during or because of work conditions. Should illegal criminals receive compensation when injured during a house break in? Why should illegal aliens be entitled to anything when they are breaking the law? It just doesnít make sense to me.

Moondoggie
October 21, 2005, 01:02 PM
If it's true that illegals are being paid "off the books" as most of us think, then why doesn't the PTB prosecute them (the employers) for consipricy to commit tax fraud?

I've never had the option to get "paid cash under the table" by any company I've ever worked for, regardless of the size of the outfit. I even had SS deducted from paychecks for field work by farmers when I was a teenager.

Income tax evasion was what Al Capone went to Alcatraz for.

R.H. Lee
October 21, 2005, 05:26 PM
If it's true that illegals are being paid "off the books" as most of us think, then why doesn't the PTB prosecute them (the employers) for consipricy to commit tax fraud?
It's probably worse than that. If an employer withholds taxes and sends them to the government under a bogus ssn, the government will notify the employer that the name and ssn don't match, or the ssn doesn't exist. It would be impossible for the employer not to know that his employee was illegal. Much easier for the employer to deduct 'taxes' and just pocket them without ever reporting wages to the government.

Is that the way it works, Jammer?

PCGS65
October 21, 2005, 05:57 PM
If you think paying illegals workers comp is bad(and it is). In Illinois the democrats voted to give illegals the right to college scolarships/state funded with tax payers money. :cuss:

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