Sheesh, the hoops I have to jump through.


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Adept
October 20, 2005, 01:31 PM
Australian gun laws need a serious over-haul.

I'm just starting the long, slow process of purchasing an 1861 Colt Navy revolver. I say long slow process because, currently, I'm being told it could take me a minimum of 30 months before I can actually apply for a permit to acquire this handgun. Yes, thats right. 30 months, and then I gain the privelidge of applying for a permit to acquire it.

:mad:

Having written to the licencing services division of the state police here in Australia, they tell me I will need a category two collectors licence to own this type of gun.

To get a category two licence, I must first have held a category one licence for two years, and own at least eleven guns manufactured before 1947. To get a category one licence, I must be a paying member of a recognised collecters club or guild for at least six months prior to the application.

If I manage to get the licence, I must then demonstrate how the gun I wish to purchase will increase the historic value of my over-all collection.

Dammit, I don't want to own 12 handguns. I can't afford it! I only want one or two.

And all this hoop jumping is just to buy a black powder cap and ball revolver!

:cuss:

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Darth Ruger
October 20, 2005, 01:36 PM
Jeez. And once you get the gun, how many licenses do you need to shoot it?

Adept
October 20, 2005, 01:43 PM
Jeez. And once you get the gun, how many licenses do you need to shoot it?

Don't joke, you do actually require a seperate licence to shoot it! That licence takes another six months to get, although thankfully you can start the process for both licences at the same time.

Darth Ruger
October 20, 2005, 01:57 PM
Time to move to the States. You can order one through the mail and have it in your hands in a day or two. And then go shoot it.

MikeIsaj
October 20, 2005, 02:16 PM
To the people of New, Jersey...

See, It could be worse!

Standing Wolf
October 20, 2005, 02:16 PM
Time to move to the States. You can order one through the mail and have it in your hands in a day or two. And then go shoot it.

I'll second that. You could spend the rest of your life beating your head against Australia's brick wall of socialism, or come to the United States and help fight a winnable battle, and enjoy a much greater measure of freedom while you're about it.

Adept
October 20, 2005, 02:20 PM
I've visited the USA on holidays before. The temptation to move there is very great. If only I could afford it...

Camp David
October 20, 2005, 02:31 PM
Australian gun laws need a serious over-haul.

I'm just starting the long, slow process of purchasing an 1861 Colt Navy revolver. I say long slow process because, currently, I'm being told it could take me a minimum of 30 months before I can actually apply for a permit to acquire this handgun. Yes, thats right. 30 months, and then I gain the privelidge of applying for a permit to acquire it...
:eek:
Wow... that's pretty crazy! No wonder you guys got so many rabbits running around down there! You need some shooters to take care of 'em for ya!

Empathy for you ... hope your situation improves Adept!

dasmi
October 20, 2005, 02:37 PM
You're always welcome here. I would avoid my particular state, however.

Molon Labe
October 20, 2005, 05:20 PM
I've visited the USA on holidays before. The temptation to move there is very great. If only I could afford it...You can't afford not to.

Lupinus
October 20, 2005, 05:24 PM
and some of...ok many of us think we got it bad. Heck a black powder weapon far as I know you can actually get through the mail with no special license.

Thats just stupidity. Because one gun intrests you you need to buy enough guns to arm the members of several households.

Thats just redicules. What the hell do you have to do with a glock or other such gun :eek:

geekWithA.45
October 20, 2005, 05:26 PM
There but for the grace of the diety of our choice go we.

oneshooter
October 20, 2005, 05:56 PM
Just one word. :D TEXAS :D


Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

Gordon Fink
October 20, 2005, 06:41 PM
I wonder which would take longer for Adept to get, a U.S. immigration permit or an Australian gun permit?

~G. Fink

Matthew748
October 20, 2005, 07:17 PM
You have my sympathy Adept. It’s a real shame that Australia has such draconian gun laws.

exoduster18
October 20, 2005, 10:02 PM
I say we make donations to Adept and get him moved up here. I live in PA and I think he would like it here. Anyone else like this idea? Hell, I don't even know if me posting this is gonna get me in trouble here at THR or not....I hope not....

crashresidue
October 20, 2005, 10:39 PM
Got a Hundred dollar bill burning up my wallet right NOW - you set up the fund and I'll have it there before Saturday.

We GOT to get this "mate" out of that particular H*LL.:evil:

Gentle winds,
cr:evil:

Adept
October 21, 2005, 01:06 AM
Holy heck, there's no way I could take any money from you guys. Just wouldn't feel right.

If everything goes swell, I should have enough cash to make the move in a few years. The more I think about it, the more attractive it sounds.

exoduster18
October 21, 2005, 12:27 PM
I wouldn't mind having you live up here by me in PA. The weather would be a little different I think. Anyhow give me a PM when you're ready to move here to the U.S. and we'll get you set up here in PA. LOL.

beaucoup ammo
October 21, 2005, 12:46 PM
I'll Echo "Oneshooter." Texas is The Place for you, Mate..(1)has what you'd call "outback": plunk you down between Junction and Fort Stockton, or anywhere within 500 miles of each and that base would be covered. (2)Sydney Harbor? Corpus Christi Bay would fill that bill nicely. (3)Characters/Indiviuals?..loaded!

Get your CHL, Pardner, and you can walk into the Gun store of your choice, and walk out 20min. later with the Gun of your choice!

And you can buy Fosters! :O)

Take Care

Adept
October 21, 2005, 11:53 PM
And you can buy Fosters! :O)

Take Care

*shudders*

The reason we export Fosters is because no-one here will drink it!

wizard of oz
October 22, 2005, 12:43 AM
We Aussie shooters would love to live in the states except for the fact that this continent/country is such a beautiful and fantastic place.
(eg. probably 10 of the best 100 beaches in the world are in Sydney alone)

Good luck mate. Having jumped through many flaming hoops I can feel your pain. :banghead: Why do you need a category 2 license ? (i know nothing about collector's licenses but is there any mechanism of appeal ?)

solareclipse
October 22, 2005, 12:59 AM
Is there a reason why you would go through all this hassle for such an old and obsolete gun?

MD_Willington
October 22, 2005, 01:50 AM
You're always welcome here. I would avoid my particular state, however.

WA state too until you get your naturalization...AFL is good for 5 years then you need to get a new not re-newed license, even with a Green Card.

MD

fallingblock
October 22, 2005, 02:31 AM
"You could spend the rest of your life beating your head against Australia's brick wall of socialism, or come to the United States and help fight a winnable battle, and enjoy a much greater measure of freedom while you're about it."
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Australia is too far down the slippery slope to reverse course in the near future.

And I hate that situation, because this is a beautiful continent with wide open spaces galore.

Unfortunately, there is also a large majority of urban hoplophobic sheep who will continue to support more and more draconian gun laws.:banghead:

fallingblock
October 22, 2005, 02:42 AM
"You could spend the rest of your life beating your head against Australia's brick wall of socialism, or come to the United States and help fight a winnable battle, and enjoy a much greater measure of freedom while you're about it."
**********************************************************

Australia is too far down the slippery slope to reverse course in the near future.

And I hate that situation, because this is a beautiful continent with wide open spaces galore.

Unfortunately, there is also a large majority of hoplophobic urban sheep who will continue to support more and more draconian gun laws.:banghead:

Radagast
October 22, 2005, 08:12 AM
Fallingblock, I actually don't think most people are anti gun, they just don't care enough to make it an issue when voting. I've helped organise two range open days in Sydney, we had 1300 in attendance at one and 750 at the other. Promotion was mainly by flyer drop in the surrounding suburbs, we averaged 1 visitor for 25 flyers. If the local shopping centre could get such a response they would be rolling in cash. My experience is that most people are interested in guns, but the powers that be are opposed to them.

With both sides of politics about to push through detention without trial and the federal govt arguing for a power to shoot to kill people who try to run away, it's becoming more and more obvious that the purpose of the the 1996 and 2002 firearms laws was to remove the ability of the people to resist dictatorial government.

fallingblock
October 24, 2005, 04:40 AM
"Fallingblock, I actually don't think most people are anti gun, they just don't care enough to make it an issue when voting."
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I believe the unceasing and almost decade-long media and government blitz against firearms and anyone interested in them has been very effective in turing the general public of Australia anti-gun.

I'd like to think it's merely a lack of interest, but experience suggest otherwise. There is no RKBA in Australia's heritage, and there has been little effective public resistance to the ever more draconian anti-gun initiatives from the Federal Government. There is no major political party which is even remotely willing to advocate for firearms owners, and none likely to appear.


**********************************************************
I've helped organise two range open days in Sydney, we had 1300 in attendance at one and 750 at the other. Promotion was mainly by flyer drop in the surrounding suburbs, we averaged 1 visitor for 25 flyers.
**********************************************************


That's a good turnout by Australian standards, but wider Sydney has a population nearing five million.

Our club's recent range open day in Alice Springs netted 25 potential 'new' shooters- out of a population base of 30,000 - we did a bit better than you did.:) Of course the southern N.T. has a lot of 'rural types' who tend to be less suceptible to media anti-gun hype, having had some experience with shooting or relatives who are on the land.

The procedures necessary for any of these potential new shooters to actually obtain a licence have become increasingly difficult and expensive, while the societal stigma attached to an interest in firearms by the Australian media and government serves to discourage many others from expressing an interest.


*********************************************************
My experience is that most people are interested in guns, but the powers that be are opposed to them.
*********************************************************


I agree that perhaps most Australians do have some curiosity concerning guns, but they have been misinformed to believe that guns themselves are somehow
'evil'.:(


*********************************************************
"With both sides of politics about to push through detention without trial and the federal govt arguing for a power to shoot to kill people who try to run away, it's becoming more and more obvious that the purpose of the the 1996 and 2002 firearms laws was to remove the ability of the people to resist dictatorial government."
*********************************************************

Absolutely.:banghead:

What Howard and his crew are doing / have done to democracy in Australia is an shining example of how rapidly government can seize power from the people. Disarmed and increasingly disenfranchised describes the political situation of today's Australian citizen.:uhoh:

By all means we must keep up our effort to resist the tyranny.

It is easy to become discouraged when we look at our losses in just the past decade.:fire:

Adept
October 24, 2005, 04:54 AM
Is there a reason why you would go through all this hassle for such an old and obsolete gun?

I jus' like it, is all. Much the same way people are prepared to fork out thousands of dollars for modern 'art' pieces.

Good luck mate. Having jumped through many flaming hoops I can feel your pain. Why do you need a category 2 license ? (i know nothing about collector's licenses but is there any mechanism of appeal ?)

You need to demonstrate a genuine need to register a handgun to a general category handgun licence. The police will not accept any reason as being a genuine need for a replica handgun. You can only register handguns manufactured before 1947 on a category one collectors licence.

Interestingly, the police accept only the manufacture date of the individual firearm in question, even though it is functionally no different to an original one manufactured 134 years ago...

fallingblock:I think a large part of the problem is lack of education, and political spin. A lot of people think that more guns equals more murders and more violent crime. It just isn't true. Have a look at the "Letter to the Editor..." thread on this forum. It's a letter I wrote in to the Herald Sun in Victoria about gun control.

fallingblock
October 24, 2005, 06:04 AM
"fallingblock:I think a large part of the problem is lack of education, and political spin. A lot of people think that more guns equals more murders and more violent crime. It just isn't true. Have a look at the "Letter to the Editor..." thread on this forum. It's a letter I wrote in to the Herald Sun in Victoria about gun control."
**********************************************************

Our Australian Goverment, and the media, have been quite happy to lie and distort facts repeatedly to achieve their agenda of civilian disarmament.

Good letter, Adept. Keep up the fight...

We may be overwhelmed here in Oz, but that's no reason to give up.;)

However, you'd find a better chance of success in the U.S.

We just managed to pass a law banning frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers (albeit with Herb Kohl's nonsense attached:fire: ).

And, wonder of wonders, Brazil just voted NO to a national firearms ban - bringing a humbling defeat to our old nemesis Rebecca Peters.:D

Hope springs eternal.....

Janitor
October 24, 2005, 07:00 AM
To get a category two licence, I must first have held a category one licence for two years, and own at least eleven guns manufactured before 1947. To get a category one licence, I must be a paying member of a recognised collecters club or guild for at least six months prior to the application.
The upside to this must be that it takes a criminal just as long to get their permit.

-

Darth Ruger
October 24, 2005, 01:52 PM
Promotion was mainly by flyer drop in the surrounding suburbs...
What exactly is a "flyer drop"?

Radagast
October 24, 2005, 06:05 PM
Flyer is a term for a piece of advertising literature stuffed into letterboxs. Also know as junk mail.

Ken

Radagast
October 24, 2005, 06:11 PM
FB, heres some more good news.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/big-rise-in-gun-owners/2005/10/22/1129775998675.html

Firearm ownership in NSW is up by more than 100,000 in three years, figures obtained by the National Coalition for Gun Control show.

The NSW Ministry of Police data, obtained by the NCGC, reveal firearm ownership climbed from 516,468 in 2002 to 648,369 in 2005.

National Coalition for Gun Control chairwoman Samantha Lee blamed the high number of applications for firearms to use for hunting on discrepancies between state and federal legislation.

Under the 1996 Australasian Police Ministers' Council Agreement on Firearms, which came in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, the only reason allowed to obtain a hunting licence is if permission from a landowner has been granted.

"Yet under NSW Firearms Act 1996 applicants are allowed to satisfy one of three criteria," Ms Lee said. "One of those criteria is being a member of a hunting club."

Radagast
October 24, 2005, 06:19 PM
Janitor, I assume that was an ironic comment. I have over the years been offered 200 unfired bren guns, a Vickers heavy machine gun, FN FAL, M16 and M2 automatic carbine.

Criminals who want firearms seem to have no problem obtaining them.

Darth Ruger
October 24, 2005, 06:58 PM
I know what a flyer is. The "drop" is what confused me. Is that the term for stuffing junk into mailboxes?

fallingblock
October 24, 2005, 07:36 PM
"National Coalition for Gun Control chairwoman Samantha Lee blamed the high number of applications for firearms to use for hunting on discrepancies between state and federal legislation."
**********************************************************


Sam Lee get her knickers in a knot.....:D


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"Under the 1996 Australasian Police Ministers' Council Agreement on Firearms, which came in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, the only reason allowed to obtain a hunting licence is if permission from a landowner has been granted.

"Yet under NSW Firearms Act 1996 applicants are allowed to satisfy one of three criteria," Ms Lee said. "One of those criteria is being a member of a hunting club.""
**********************************************************


But Radagast...you can see what's going to happen here, can't you?

The NSW Government will 'tighten up' the legislation as a feel-good excercise.

The Feds will be all too willing to assist from the "firearms policy unit" at the Attorney General's Office.:banghead:


**********************************************************
"Firearm ownership in NSW is up by more than 100,000 in three years, figures obtained by the National Coalition for Gun Control show.

The NSW Ministry of Police data, obtained by the NCGC, reveal firearm ownership climbed from 516,468 in 2002 to 648,369 in 2005."
**********************************************************


This figure represents more guns within "the system", not an increase in gun owner numbers.

Of course, there are tens of thousands more guns in circulation in NSW (and the rest of Australia) which are not now and never will be "in the system".
.:neener:


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"I have over the years been offered 200 unfired bren guns, a Vickers heavy machine gun, FN FAL, M16 and M2 automatic carbine."
**********************************************************


There certainly is quite a pile of "military-style" (dang media!) weapons floating around "off the system" in Australia. One of my mates in central Queensland kept a WWI capture German Maxim gun set up on the verandah of his station homestead until recently. His granddad got it from service in WWI and he was proud of it - It has since found a more discrete location.;)

I cannot locate the article at "The Courier Mail" now, but there was a prominent Queensland medical doctor busted recently for having a vault under his rural chicken shed stacked with "no-no" collectibles. Geez, the media had a field day with the guy. He had 51 firearms in total, many of them "military-style' full autos, including Uzis and some SLR's. They were all "properly stored", but a sniffer dog uncovered the "arsenal":rolleyes: .

So much for "uniform National Gun Laws" and "removing guns from the streets".:barf: The good doctor's innocent guns were already "off the streets".;)

Janitor
October 24, 2005, 08:32 PM
Janitor, I assume that was an ironic comment.
A safe assumption.

The comment was made with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Radagast
October 25, 2005, 02:42 AM
Darth Ruger, that's correct, as in to drop off.

Janitor, sorry my irony detector was down. I guess it must be a Microsoft product. :P

sterling180
March 19, 2006, 09:37 AM
BLOODY HELL MATE,THIRTY FRIGGING MONTHS OR 2 1/2 YEARS FOR A COLLECTORS PERMIT TO OWN TWO HANDGUNS- one being a black-powder cap and ball revolver.

Adept, sorry I forgot to write your name at the begining of my sentence.

I genuinely thought that us long-suffering, gun-deprived Brits
who were robbed of our Fullbore SLR's and some specified shotguns and later most types of handguns-,were a small minority on the globe, but looking at what John Bloody Howard has done to you Australian shooters,I hate to say, I love the UK, because our licensing laws are strict, but boy are they not as strict as yours, in terms of acquiring a license.

It takes-depending on what county you live in-roughly about 3-12 months to acquire a UK-legal pistol (Including cap and ball models) a pump or semi-auto rifle/shotgun(restricted or unrestricted magazines.) If you are a vermin shooter you can acquire a silencer for your rifle and shotgun, easily-far easily than having to wait 30 goddam months for a collectors license.

These laws are total and utter bollocks, that that dickhead John Howard has drafted with his lackies. In Australia there is more reason to own all of the prohibited weapons-that he has made illegal-than in the UK, because of bandits and dangerous animals in the outback.

You are at least far luckier than us, because you are still allowed to possess standard handguns, but after hearing about that mad chinese student -who went on a killing spree - old creepy Howard will impose his views further by soon completely banning hand-guns. The UK Gun Control Network love Howard, because he is like them - unlike Micheal Howard the former UK Conservative leader.

I thought that us Brits were intolerant of firearms,but Australia has been nominated as well, as being an intolerant-of-firearms society, completely.

Do you or have you Auzzie shooters travelled to Bisley in Surrey, for a few days action-shooting with modern or black-powder pistols and others?
If yes, than come to Bisley soon-in may if you can , when teams from Germany, The Irish Republic and possibly from the USA,-will be competing against one another.

If you don't, than I think you should consider it because you have a chance to try practical Shotgun again, using privately owned pump/semi auto's from members of the Metropolitan Police's gun club. You will probably prefer New Zealand, because the Anti-gun plague hasn't affected them there and you have greater choice of weapons, to shoot. Also it's closer and cheaper.

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