[Maxinquaye]

After reading the thread on the "gun industry shield", I realized that I either sept through civics in H.S. or forgot it. Either way I realized that I have no idea ow laws are passed. Do they always go through the Senate first? How do committees work?

Sorry if this is not directly related to firearms, but I think it's pretty basic and relevant to a lot of the threads in this sub-forum.

[Don Gwinn]

Hmmm.. . .

[Al Norris]

Bills may be submitted to either house, with one exception.

When a bill is passed by one house it is submitted to the other house. It must then be passed by that house to enable it to proceed to the President, who either signs it into law, or sends it back with a list of complaints/exceptions on the bill. The president may also do nothing, whereupon after a certain amount of time, it becomes law anyway.

It is now common for a bill to be submitted to both houses. If such a bill is passed, it goes to a committee where any discrepancies (such as amendments) are reconciled and resubmitted to the houses (if applicable).

The only exception (as noted in the first paragraph above) is if the bill is an appropriations bill. Such bills must originate in the House of Representatives and not the Senate.

That's it in a nutshell.

[dasmi]

http://www.parkplace.com/ppewebresources/parkplace_entertainment_images/caesarstahoe/ct_stack-of-cash.jpg

[pcf]

Rules of the House of Representatives (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.toc.html)

Rules of the Senate (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/enactment/enactlawtoc.html)


House Committees (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/hcomso.html)

Senate Committees (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/hcomso.html)

[Nehemiah Scudder]

http://www.jacksheldon.com/bill.wav

[Jim March]

Here's how the California system works, which is similar to the Feds:

1) Bill gets written by a particular legislator (or rather, their staff) based on either some concern of the legislator or one of their staffers or more commonly, because some special interest lobby (inside or outside of government!) comes to them with a "problem that needs solving". In some cases in this early stage, more than one legislator will get into the act and co-wrote it. In a few, one or more Assembly legislators will co-ordinate with one or more Senators and the same concept will be floated in both houses at once.

2) Depending on what kind of bill it is, it will get routed to at least one and usually two "committees". This usually means one "policy committee" plus the budgetary committee - the latter if there's any sort of expenditure involved. In California gun bills (pro-self-defense or anti-self defense) will get routed to the "Public Safety" committee of the house of origin (Assembly or Senate).

3) A "policy committee" with between 5 and 18 or so legicritters is where public testimony on the merits of the bill is taken, and the committee members pass it, dump it or make amendments. This is the phase where "is this a good idea or not" is supposed to get decided (yeah, right!).

4) If it gets past that committee, it goes to the budget committee. More public testimony can happen but ONLY as it affects the budgets of the state or any local government.

5) If it gets past there, it's voted on the floor by the full house (Assembly or Senate). No public testimony or any other witnesses are allowed. So the only way to influence the debate is to feed talking points to a (hopefully!) articulate legicritter on your side.

6) It then starts all over on the other side - policy committee, budget committee, full hearing. If it gets seriously altered in the other side's committees, if may need to be re-voted by the house of origin.

7) It then goes to the Governor. If he vetoes it takes a 2/3rds legislative vote to override.

I don't know exactly how the committee structure is at the Federal level. But I can tell you this: the committee assignments are done at the beginning of the year by whichever political party is dominant in each house. So a committee that deals with gun bills (such as the Public Safety committees in California) can be set up as a "kill zone" for gun control bills or a "grabber friendly zone". Which is why party dominance matters.

Let's say the California Dems are aligned about 80% towards gun-grabbing to one degree or another (no more than 10% will be really hardcore enough to propose new gun grabs). And let's say the GOP legislators in California are split about 50/50. Under those circumstances, passing pro-self-defense bills is basically not going to happen. BUT if the GOP leadership understands that screwing over gunnies is a bad idea AND they have control over at least one house no matter how slim, what they do is, they load up one of the two public safety committees with pro-self-defense people.

That alone won't get any good bills passed but it sets up that committee as a "kill zone" for gun-grabber bills from both houses.

For a list of the other "policy committees" in California (interesting reading!):

http://assembly.ca.gov/acs/acsframeset8text.asp

[Brad Johnson]

http://www.postdiluvian.org/~gilly/Schoolhouse_Rock/pix/bill.jpg


School House Rock - "I'm Just a Bill"

Music & Lyrics: Dave Frishberg
Sung by: Jack Sheldon

I'm just a bill,
Yes, I'm only a bill,
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capital city,
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee,
But I know I'll be a law someday...
At least I hope and pray that I will,
But today I'm still just a bill.

{Gee, bill, you certainly have a lot of patience and courage!}

{Well I got *this* far. When I started, I wasn't even a *bill* - I was just an idea. Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed, so they called their local congressman and he "You're right, there ought to be a law." Then he sat down and wrote me out and introduced me to Congress, and I became a bill. And I'll remain a bill until they decide to make me a law.}

I'm just a bill,
Yes I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well now I'm stuck in committee
And I sit here and wait
While a few key congressmen
Discuss and debate
Whether they should
Let me be a law...
Oh how I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.

{Listen to those congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and debate about you?}

{Yes. I'm one of the lucky ones. Most bills never even get this far. I hope they decide to report on me favourably, otherwise I may die.}

{"Die?"}

{Yeah: die in committee. Oooh! But it looks like I'm gonna live. Now I go to the House of Representatives and they vote on me.}

{If they vote "yes", what happens?}

{Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts all over again.}

{Oh no!}

{Oh yes!}

I'm just a bill,
Yes I'm only a bill,
And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill,
Well then I'm off to the White House
Where I'll wait in a line
With a lot of other bills
For the President to sign.
And if he signs me then I'll be a law...
Oh, how I hope and pray that he will,
But today I am still just a bill.

{You mean even if the whole Congress says you should be a law, the President can still say no?}

{Yes, that's called a "veto". If the President vetoes me, I have to go back to Congress, and they vote on me again, and by that time it's...}

{By that time, it's very unlikely that you'll *become* a law! It's not easy to become a law, is it?}

No! But how I hope and I pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill!

{He signed you, bill! Now you're a law!}

{Oh yes!}

[Hawken50]

ok here's my stupid question of the day. what's the diffrence between a "law" and an "act"?

[Lupinus]

the ammount of money it takes to bribe the congressman into voting for it.

Oh Im sorry, not bribe, political contribution

[Sir Aardvark]

How to pass a law...

1) Propose something ridiculous, such as "It is unlawful to hose down your driveway or walkway with water", and convince your assemblyman that it is needed.

or...

2) Be a Deep Pocketed Special Interest and pay big bucks.

[pcf]

ok here's my stupid question of the day. what's the diffrence between a "law" and an "act"?

Hawken,
Laws are an "Act of Congress", but not all Acts of Congress are laws.

An Act of Congress is a bill or resolution that has been passed by both houses of Congress, and then approved by the Executive Branch (President) or Congress has overidden the President's veto. Some Motions do not need approval of the executive to be considered Acts of Congress.

Bills become laws.
Resolutions are how Congress exercises its non-lawmaking powers, such as declaring war/"police actions", (the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution comes to mind.)
And finally some motions do not require approval of the executive branch to become Acts of Congress, for example, Congress recognizing Bob Hope's Contribution to the USO and Service Members.

[ReadyontheRight]

Brad Johnson -- You beat me to it!

As a child of the 70s, it's so sad that I learned more about History from ABC Saturday mornings and The History Channel than from school.

[cracked butt]

As a child of the 70s, it's so sad that I learned more about History from ABC Saturday mornings and The History Channel than from school.

I was thinking the same thing.

Saturday mornings were a place and time where a child could learn about classical music "Bugs BunnY" , physics "Coyote-Roadrunner show" with a good heaping helping of Murphy's law when it comes to firearms, large vehicles, and explosives. Throw in the civics, history, and sentence structure lessons of School House Rock and a pre-adolescent could learn enough in 3 hrs per week to get them by in life, maybe in some cases better than what they could learn in school. Compare this to the multicultural politically correct crap that is on now on saturday mornings. :barf:

Also, during that time frame, TV programmers had their heads screwed on right. Saturday morning cartoons started at 6AM so that the parents could sleep in a bit after a hard week of work. Nowadays, cartoons don't even start until 8AM, and they are crap at that.

[Shootcraps]

http://www.postdiluvian.org/~gilly/Schoolhouse_Rock/pix/bill.jpg


School House Rock - "I'm Just a Bill"



I got to sing this song when we performed "School House Rock - Live!" at our Community Theater. What a blast!!! :evil: