Gun crime increasing in Britain


October 22, 2005, 11:40 PM
Despite their banning of all handguns, it seems criminals aren't listening... :rolleyes:

From the Telegraph, London (;jsessionid=RJJIU2Y04GDULQFIQMFSM54AVCBQ0JVC?xml=/news/2005/10/23/ngun23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/23/ixhome.html):

Gun crime is spreading from city to suburb, says police chief

By Alasdair Palmer

(Filed: 23/10/2005)

Gun crime is spreading rapidly from city to suburb, one of Britain's most senior policemen warned yesterday.

Tarique Ghaffur, the assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "Guns used to be confined to London areas such as Hackney, Lambeth and Brent. Now they are spreading to suburbs such as Wandsworth and Putney."

It is a trend seen all over Britain. Nottingham, Manchester and Birmingham are notorious for shootings. Last year there were 59 recorded firearm incidents in Nottingham alone, four of them fatal.

Mr Ghaffur believes there is "an arms race going on", as ethnic groups copy the gun-use of Afro-Caribbean gangs. "Gun crime in Islington [north London] increased by 148 per cent last year," he said in an interview with The Sunday Telegraph.

"It's up by 50 per cent or more in several other London boroughs. The reality is that the use of guns is ceasing to be an inner-city phenomenon. It's moving into the suburbs and the countryside."

Last week's crime figures showed violent crime rose by six per cent over the year 2004-2005, domestic burglary fell by 11 per cent - and overall, the total amount of crime was down by two per cent.

"Murders in London would have been slightly down this year had it not been for the suicide terrorists killing more than 50 people on July 7," said Mr Ghaffur. "But what concerns me is the increasing willingness of criminals to use guns to kill people."

He does not think the trend can be reversed simply by more convictions.

"What we're dealing with here is a generation of kids who grow up with a culture of violent crime," he said. "By the time they end up being sent to prison, it is too late."

They start shoplifting at the age of 10, graduate to street robbery and drug dealing in their teens, and use guns for extortion and getting rid of rival drug dealers in their early twenties.

"By the time these guys are 30 they are either dead, serving a long prison sentence - or are very successful criminals," he added.

Mr Ghaffur and his team have been investigating the links between firearms offences, benefit fraud, extortion and drug dealing. In one case, the investigation led to one man, who for legal reasons cannot be named.

"This guy is personally responsible for a crime wave," he said. "He's been involved in extreme violence. And he has 37 children by 19 different women. His children are excluded from school and involved in crime."

All of his children are rapidly growing, into the next generation of killers, Mr Ghaffur suggests.

He thinks that the only way to reverse the trend is to "treat children such as these as in need of the child protection services".

Mr Ghaffur added: "I fear for our future if we don't start intervening in very fundamental ways to stop these children from growing up into violent criminals."

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October 23, 2005, 12:02 AM
I hear the problem has been spreading to Staines :D

October 23, 2005, 12:33 AM
You reap what you sew.

October 23, 2005, 01:32 AM
Good one Cosmo! For those who have missed it, the Ali G show is a hilarious comedy show by this guy named Sasha Baron Cohen. He's a British Jew from Staines, a middle class white neighborhood in London. Anyway, he adopts the character of "Ali G" and pretends to be an "urban black". He has a swarthy enough complexion that it just sort of barely works if you squint. But everyone he interviews is too PC to challenge him or tell him that he's being an idiot, which makes the whole thing very funny. Highly recommended.

October 23, 2005, 10:48 AM
Ali G is pretty much a busted flush here now as everyone recognises him on sight. He has still been able to work his act in the US as he is much less well-known there.

October 23, 2005, 11:46 AM
Didn't we discuss Home Office statistics on violent crime a few weeks ago? IIRC, The Home Office tried to tell us that violent crime was plummeting and had been for years...
Mr Ghaffur must be mistaken! The Home Office wouldn't lie to us!
(Searches in vain for a smilie to convey 12 Tonnes of unrefined sarcasm)

October 23, 2005, 12:10 PM
Merely unsubstanciated rumours started by a bunch a people who have been robbed at gunpoint... :rolleyes:

October 23, 2005, 12:24 PM
They are called British subjects for many reasons...and are subjects on many levels. Glad my family left Ireland 125 years ago.

Sometimes when I need to daydream I think about what would have happened if Sen. Dianne Feinstein had got her way..."If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it."

That worked perfectly, with no protest, in Merry Ol' England. I read how guys would clean dad's Hi-Power or Webley and turn them in for melting.

Might have been a tad more difficult here.

Andy Jackson said it best discussing a SCOTUS decision...."Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it!" Gettin' it is one thing Dianne, enforcing it is another.

Unless you're British, then she would get what she wanted.

October 23, 2005, 01:54 PM
Decades of socialism and multiculturalism that have made the U.K., as Blair told us,"the envy of the world," are flowering.

October 23, 2005, 02:29 PM
say it aint so.... :rolleyes:

October 23, 2005, 02:59 PM
It's a wonder you can ever find any ally ideologically pure enough to fight on the same battlefield with.

October 23, 2005, 03:27 PM
Why does everyone think that the British are disarmed? There are lots of guns for everyone! I was recently reliably informed by a slightly dodgy friend of mine, that an acquaintance of his could get me "anything". Which apparently included full-auto sub-guns and "pineapples" of the room-clearing variety. Judging by some of the artillery sported by some of the grotty herberts in the news recently, I wouldn't be surprised if he could...

So no, as long as you're a drug-dealer, gang member, contract killer or random psycho, guns are easily available.

In a week where not one, but two of our "protectors" lost their firearms in public, I feel so much safer...:rolleyes:

BTW, I've got no intention of finding out if "The Acquaintance" can actually get me a burp-gun or grenade. He sounds like a loony and I've got better things to do than sit in a prison cell...

October 23, 2005, 03:35 PM
A free people does not have to arm itself under the table, at penalty of law.

October 23, 2005, 03:36 PM

El Tejon
October 23, 2005, 03:51 PM
What's all this then? Criminals doing illegal acts in defiance of her Majesty?

I thought when the UK banned pistolas that the criminals would then be forced to used pointed sticks which would be neutralized via releasing a tiger?:D

Standing Wolf
October 23, 2005, 03:55 PM
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns.

Did you think it was just a clever bumper sticker? It's reality throughout much of the purportedly "civilized" world.

walking arsenal
October 23, 2005, 03:56 PM
My family came from germany.

We darn near ruled the world once, dang brits helped screw that up for us.

Maybe it's a good time to try again, ja? :neener:

October 23, 2005, 04:12 PM
Guns are still legal to own in Britian, just not handguns.

I think because London got the Olympics they might have to alter their handgun laws.

October 23, 2005, 04:23 PM
they won't alter it, they'll issue temporary licences for the duration only (but not for practice beforehand). And you won't get to see the gun before the competition.

October 23, 2005, 04:24 PM
Yep, it's a statement of fact, Standing Wolf. Shame that reality is such an alien concept to the polititians.
But longeyes, a "free people" can do exactly what they want at all times - including taking hard drugs, drink-driving, arson, murder, improper relations with farm animals, etc, etc...
I don't think there is such a thing as a "free people". Not in the legal sense, at any rate... Unless there's some Anarchist state somewhere, which we don't know about.

October 23, 2005, 05:36 PM

But you can't be free when your right to self-defense is evaporating before your eyes.

October 23, 2005, 07:34 PM
they don't really know. That's a fact.

they modify the statistics each week to suit them. right now they are trying to pass another anti gun bill and of course they need crime by guns (while the rest of the crime is down) to be up.

unfortunately our government has been taking lessons from them it seems in many areas..

October 24, 2005, 02:22 PM
Well, I'd certainly like to be more free than I am right now...:(

Fortunately, I reckon the USA has a long way to go before it ends up like the UK. The shooting community in this country is - and pretty much always has been - a distinct minority. They don't really have the political muscle of the shooting community in the states and so it was very easy for the government and media to scapegoat them at every opportunity.
As long as the shooting community in the states continues to grow, remains politically active and doesn't become too complacent, I don't think you guys are going to end up like us in the UK.:)

October 24, 2005, 02:34 PM
I would be willing, and I'm sure many others would as well, to store the guns of a British gun owner until the laws are repealed.

October 24, 2005, 02:50 PM
"But what concerns me is the increasing willingness of criminals to use guns to kill people."

He does not think the trend can be reversed simply by more convictions.
Of course not ... It's obvious that more convictions and dealing with the criminals is not the answer.

They need more gun control laws over there. It should be painfully obvious that if gun crime is on the rise that the gun control laws they have now are not nearly strict enough.


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