[nitesite]

Today I was at the public (non-trap) range, with a borrowed Trius trap thrower shooting some singles and doubles I launched from right at my feet.

To be honest, having my gun at high ready and looking downrange, I didn't even see the first (right) target for the first 12-14 yards. By then it was fairly high. If it was a single I had no trouble breaking (sometimes smoking) almost every one.

On doubles I experienced some difficulty picking up the left target, which I was shooting second. By the time I broke the right target I would then have to acquire the left one which was always curving down and left. The barrel blocked my view as I swung around. I only broke about 60% of them.

A lot of it is, I admit, my own inexperience plus shooting a very new gun (Gold Fusion with Modified tube and Nitro 27 Premier Target HDCP #8s).

Should I (1) try to shoot the left one first and then swing to the right? That seems to work against muscles and bone.

Or (2) should I just avoid shooting doubles I launch myself from underfoot and stick with singles?

Or is there a (3) and (4) I'm not considering other than shoot a lot more? And get a longer rope? :scrutiny:

[sm]

I hesitate in replying - I sense sincerity and willingness in your questions.

Forgive me, I do not know your level of experience, or any lessons you may of had.

We have what is known as "hold points". One cannot shoot what they cannot see. These hold points are different for each shooter based on experience level, flight of target and speed. It is recommended 1) never let the bird get too far out, 2) never allow your muzzle to get above bird, 3) shoot way too late.

Gun fit to shooter and mounting gun to face is really that important. The shotgun is an extension of one's self.

One is to be positioned in a manner that allows them to aquire the target - actually SEE the target. For folks like me that shoot low gun, we are following the target with both eyes open, our body is moving with the flight, the gun is pushed out, and mounted gun to face. All this time we are tracking target with eyes and body, we really do not "see" the bbl, or front sight...we know they are "there", we are matching speed, angle of flight, gun mounts to face, we match and keep swinging thru target, about the time the butt of gun is in shoulder pocket - we fire and keep swinging.

Pre-mounted gun: same principles apply.

For doubles - we have postioned ourselves for second shot. Then we forget all about the second shot. WE have to break the first bird first.

Repeat as before on one bird - then move eyes to second bird, body following, get behind, match flight path, speed, keep swinging , get the lead , slap trigger and keep swinging thru - dead bird, dead pair.

Really, that is all it takes.

Hence the reason I harp on gun fit to shooter. On new shooters I do not want them to learn on a gun with mag extensions, side saddles and such. Correct basic fundamentals need to be learned, ingrained, practiced. Then one can transition to other tasks, with add ons.

You have done this same thing without knowing it - absent a shotgun. Watering the yard, the bee is in periphial vision, you do not aim the spray of water, you just point. You matched the flight, angle and speed and got the bee...and the second one that appeared and going a different direction.

Borrow a gun that fits. Unloaded, triple checked, stand in the garage or spare room , and practice mounting correctly gun to face 25 times a day. Follow the window sill, where wall meets ceiling. Move where you aquire about the window from different angles. Maybe in the garage that shelf with stuff on it.

Once the basics are learned, don't think - shoot. Do not overide the human computer. With experience and practice - you will shoot sooner and faster. Your hold points will change. Progress is all.

I have had kids age 4 "breaking doubles". :D

Garden hose and tennis balls - seriously. The nozzle a straight one, water is on- they aquire one then the second tennis ball I toss out. When they bigger and can use a trigger sprayer- they get to "shoot the pattern" of water themselves.

We go from there to Bristers BB Gun lessons. I remove the sights, they shoot ping pong balls, and I can tell that if that BB Gun was a repeater, they would have gotten the second bird. Stationary ping pong balls at first, then I start calling out the colors ( I painted them) so they don't know which one to shoot.

They then get a shotgun, maybe just popcorn loads,or really light loads in a single shot and again I remove the front bead. Balloons, they pop the first one, and I tell if they would have hit the second one.

They get a repeater. NO beads. They are focused, they hit both tennis balls, ping pong balls, balloons, then clay targets.

I did it! <grinning and so excited>
This is just like when I was little and got the tennis balls wet, isn't it? Seven year old.

Yes a 7 yr old will get orange pcs of targets and have them in a jar in his room.

Sheesh...the things some instructors do for students - I swear!


:D

[nitesite]

sm~~

Thanks you for your considered thoughts.

One correction I must make is that I was starting from "low ready" not high. Don't know why I typed that.

My experience level is rather low, and there are no true trap ranges or clubs I know if in my area.

Again, thanks!

Dave (nitesite)

[sm]

No Sir. Thank YOU!

I'm just passing forward is all.

Go to www.abebooks.com Look for these, and order them.

Shotgunning: The Art and The Science by Bob Brister

Score Better at Skeet by Fred Misseldine.
Score Better at Trap Fred Misseldine.

Brister's work will answer most questions in regard to shotguns. Covers gun fit to loads and chokes, to patterning to...to...

Misseldine's work will also cover gun fit to you name it.

Misseldine will not only cover each station and how to break the target - he will also cover each station and WHY you missed it.

Doubles are addressed by each.

Now some folks will say these Authors and works are outdated. I disagree.

Mike Plaxco shared with me once <paraphrased> Shooting is learning Correct Basic Fundamentals - we just keep practicing these over and over and over again. The guns may change, new techniques may come along, new loadings may become available - we still apply the basics in transitoning

Little known tidbit, I have seen Brister shoot. I have seen Misseldine shoot and he was old partially blind in one eye. I have also shot with Plaxco. Plaxco - pick any gun up, handgun, rifle, or shotgun, and he could shoot it- just as Brister and Misseldine could.

Folks learned on manual typewriters, then electric typewriters, now we have computers. The technology may have changed -The KeyBoard is the same.

Aluminum baseball bats work just like the wooden ones.

Motor vehicles may have the engines mounted wrong now-a-days, the power applied to wrong end, more plastic, have computers and cost too much - still the idea is the same. Keep the rubber side down and don't end up in the ditch. :D

I have folks from New Zealand to wherever, to even local here in the South, ordered the books mentioned above, read them, got a gun that fits, and get weird looks from family doing repetitions in the garage...So be it.

They do hit what they are looking at. The are breaking targets, they are taking game.

They also learn some tips on that shotgun for HD from all this too.

Run 'em

Steve

[Grayrock]

As a variation, Nitesite, you might try STACKING 2 clays on the throwing arm. I do that on my Trius and it flings them both out in front and not so far apart you lose sight of one of them. Do that a while til you build confidence in hitting both , then go back to placing clays next to each other on the throwing arm. You can also get those boxes of mixed sizes of clays and try different sizes. My Trius also came with an adapter to throw coke cans.