[megatronrules]

I want to say for the record that I would never advocate being a deabeat dad or anything of the sort. I don't need to worry about this because my girlfriend is "fixed",but the subject came up today. Can you be forced to take a pertenity test based soley on a person's word? I mean just because a woman gives your name to the state dosen't mean you have to right? I can say I slept with tyra banks it don't meant its true. Anyways I'am just curious as this is still the united states of america where I'am assuming good citizens can't be forced to give up thair blood samples.

[nhhillbilly]

In NH the rule is if the mother list's you as the father on the birth certificate you are the father. If you want to contest it it is up to you to get the testing done.

[Standing Wolf]

...this is still the united states of america where I'am assuming good citizens can't be forced to give up thair blood samples.

I'd be very careful of such assumptions.

[hillbilly]

Uh, if the government shows up with a subpoena for your DNA in the course of a court case, then, yeah, you can be........

hillbilly

[pcf]

Reference Schmerber vs California. Being compelled to provide blood or DNA does not violate your 5th Amendment right (or so they'd have us believe).

No you don't have to provide DNA for a paternity test. Expect to be held in contempt of court, have an arrest warrant issued, etc.

[HighVelocity]

In NH the rule is if the mother list's you as the father on the birth certificate you are the father. If you want to contest it it is up to you to get the testing done.


Same here in TX. If the woman puts your name down on the birth certificate as the father, it's child support you'll be paying until you prove otherwise. :mad:

[spartacus2002]

A lot of states will do the following:
1. Woman comes in to Dept of Child and Family Services (or whatever it is called in that state) claiming you are the father of her child, and that DCFS needs to get you to start paying child support.
2. DCFS sends a letter to your last known address saying you may either accept or contest paternity. The letter also says that if you fail to respond within 30 days, YOU ARE DEEMED TO HAVE ADMITTED PATERNITY.
3. If you contest paternity, you have to take a DNA test to prove you aint the daddy.
4. If you admit or fail to respond, DCFS sends it to the judge who rubberstamps it, and WHAM! Your pay starts getting garnished.

Imagine the poor saps who are deployed or who never got the letter and only find out about all this because the state starts garnishing their pay.

If you are some poor guy who never got the letter, you usually cannot go after the state to get that money back, even if a DNA test proves you aren't the father. Most states will tell you to go after mom in court to get the refund.

Messed up, ain't it?

[telewinz]

Within the past year a "father" proved by DNA samples that the child was not his. The judge held the man to be the father of the child because it was in the best interest's of the child!

[scubie02]

this is an issue that has gotten out of hand and needs to be set right, but it won't be, because its not "Pc" to advocate for mens rights--it'd be seen as aking to advocating for "white rights". Its funny how they always say men need to "take responsibility", but apparently women have none in this regard. Women are every bit as much if not more so the sexual predators these days as men, but if something happens, its the guy's fault. Same reason female serial killers rarely do time, or if they do its minimal. Because there is still the mentality that it "must be some man's fault, the poor girl wouldn't have done that on their own...". Uh, yeah. Trust me, there's a reason many societies used to give the prisoners they really wanted to torture to the women...

[bjbarron]

Within the past year a "father" proved by DNA samples that the child was not his. The judge held the man to be the father of the child because it was in the best interest's of the child!

And a case where a woman scammed a sperm bank and took her ex-husbands sperm to her doctor for insemination. The doner is the father...and will be paying for the next couple of decades. New York law doesn't make a distinction where the sperm comes from or how it was obtained...just who is the father of the child. He can sue the mother for theft and the sperm bank for not destroying the sperm when he asked them to, but he has to pay for the child.

[Hawkmoon]

And a case where a woman scammed a sperm bank and took her ex-husbands sperm to her doctor for insemination. The doner is the father...and will be paying for the next couple of decades. New York law doesn't make a distinction where the sperm comes from or how it was obtained...just who is the father of the child. He can sue the mother for theft and the sperm bank for not destroying the sperm when he asked them to, but he has to pay for the child.
I really wish you had not told me about this. I thought my opinion of how low human nature might allow a person to stoop was about as low as possible. Now I have to find a shovel and dig down a couple more feet.

[Tory]

"Within the past year a "father" proved by DNA samples that the child was not his. The judge held the man to be the father of the child because it was in the best interest's [sic] of the child!"

And how LONG had he been deemed the father before bothering to confirm paternity? :scrutiny:

Long enough for the little girl to have bonded with him as her father, I'm guessing.

[Zundfolge]

He can sue the mother for theft and the sperm bank for not destroying the sperm when he asked them to, but he has to pay for the child.
With a little cleaver lawyering he could make the case that since the mother is a sperm thief and a practitioner of fraud that HE should get custody of the child.

Go to court to take a child away from one of these women and you might be surprised how fast they (the mothers) change their tune.

Of course the risk is that he could win and then he'd have a kid :uhoh:

[TexasRifleman]

deleted

[joab]

It goes both ways

A long time ago a friend was the accused father of the child of a girl he had never had intercourse with.
He demanded a blood test, she refused .
He went to court to force it.

He won then he sued and won that case also

[another okie]

If you don't want to pay child support keep your trousers zipped.

[mbs357]

If you don't want to pay child support keep your trousers zipped.
Best advice yet.
Works for me. =o

[spartacus2002]

If you don't want to pay child support keep your trousers zipped.

That's not the issue. Nobody disputes that fathers should support their kids. As seen in the posts above, the more ominous issue is when the government makes you pay child support for kids that aren't yours.

[Pilgrim]

My cousin, who lives in Sacramento, CA, received a letter from the family support unit of the Los Angeles County District Attorney saying that he had been named the father of unborn Baby 'X' in Los Angeles County. This was really interesting as my cousin had not been in Los Angeles County in a couple of years.

It turns out that the mother of unborn Baby 'X' applied for welfare benefits and when asked the father's name made up a name which happened to be my cousin's. When asked where he lived she said, "I think he lives in Sacramento."

The family support officer looked in the phone book and found my cousin. He got the letter telling him to support unborn Baby 'X'.

It was pretty entertaining, my cousin having his own family, but the mother of unborn Baby 'X' finally 'fessed' up and admitted she made up the name of the baby's father.

Pilgrim

[joab]

If you don't want to pay child support keep your trousers zipped.If only life were that simple

A long time ago a friend was the accused father of the child of a girl he had never had intercourse with.

[deanf]

Can you be forced to take a paternity test?

So it seems the answer is yes.

Either the court will order it as part of an action by the mother, or you must "voluntarily" take the test to prove you're not the father, or the law will just assume that you are.

This is part-and-parcel of the Oprah-spearheaded anti-male agenda.

[Don't Tread On Me]

In Florida, some men were made to pay child support for children that weren't even theirs!! and it still continues.


There is no end to government evil.

[Kurush]

Not to be a control freak but how is this gun related? Other than the obvious pun about negligent discharge.

[telewinz]

Long enough for the little girl to have bonded with him as her father, I'm guessing. True. But what does that have to do with forced child support?

[Gun Geezer]

Heard on the news of a child needing a transplant. The dad (divorced from mom at this point) voluteers for blood test. Test shows he is not the father!

To make things worse, he somehow managed to get the other kids all tested and he is not their fathrer either!

But, just to make things much much worse, it turns out the kids all have different fathers!

But, just to make things much much much worse, the Judge ordered that he continue to make child support payments!:banghead:

[Mad Man]

Women have choices, and men have responsibilities.
-Steve Martin
Parenthood (http://imdb.com/title/tt0098067/)


And for those of you writing about "there was this case where," could you please post links!!!???? This is the internet, for Allah's sake, not the lame-stream media. It's not that hard.

Without a reference, your stories have about as much validity as any other claim made at the local watering hole (or a Band Camp story).

[bogie]

Snopes didn't come up with anything. I'm inclined to believe.

IMHO, both parties should agree on either having the child, or not having the child, with support if necessary.

[auschip]

And for those of you writing about "there was this case where," could you please post links!!!???? This is the internet, for Allah's sake, not the lame-stream media. It's not that hard.

Without a reference, your stories have about as much validity as any other claim made at the local watering hole (or a Band Camp story).

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1568/is_6_34/ai_93090048

Discusses many of the cases above.

Not knowing for sure (and trying to keep this on topic), I have heard that a person can lose their RKBA for being delinquent in child support. Is that a state by state rule, or would you get a nics hit?

[Double Naught Spy]

Anyways I'am just curious as this is still the united states of america where I'am assuming good citizens can't be forced to give up thair blood samples.

I am continually surprised by Americans who think that just because they are in American that things they don't like should not happen.

[Tory]

Long enough for the little girl to have bonded with him as her father, I'm guessing.

True. But what does that have to do with forced child support?

As stated in the very article you posted, THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD! THAT is the standard by which the matter is judged; not your fiscal analysis. :scrutiny:

In short, the putative father failed to act in time, he accepted the child AND SHE HIM, with the result that terminating the relationship would harm the girl.

Rights you sleep on are rights you lose. :uhoh:

[Augustwest]

Not to be a control freak but how is this gun related?

It isn't. But it falls pretty heavily under the heading of "other civil rights."

[Art Eatman]

When men in great numbers don't accept a responsibility, and it costs the taxpayers money in a time of tight budgets, the State WILL step in--particularly on an issue such as child support.

Do SOME women take advantage? You bet your sweet bippy they do! Unfortunately for one young lady of my acquaintance, three of her four "targets" proved to not be the father. The Guilty Party, a travellin' man sort of biker, was never found.

So, AFDC and rent subsidy...

Art

[MillCreek]

In my younger days, I worked in a research lab in support of the local bone marrow transplant (BMT) program. Seattle is a world leader in this type of transplant. A child needed a BMT for treatment of leukemia. A successful transplant requires a donor who matches several genetic factors, and I did some of the testing for these factors. In these cases, you routinely test the parents and other children for the genetic markers to see if they might be a suitable donor. As it turned out, the husband was not the father of the child who needed the transplant, nor was he the father of two of the remaining three children. He was completely unaware of this. On the upside, the child received a successful transplant and was disease free five years later.

[BenW]

Nobody disputes that fathers should support their kids.
Interestingly in the EU now, it seems that sperm donors can be forced to pay child support. They're technically the father, but......

If only both males AND females took more personal responsibility in the whole procreation thing....

[shaldag]

My cousin, who lives in Sacramento, CA, received a letter from the family support unit of the Los Angeles County District Attorney saying that he had been named the father of unborn Baby 'X' in Los Angeles County. This was really interesting as my cousin had not been in Los Angeles County in a couple of years.

It turns out that the mother of unborn Baby 'X' applied for welfare benefits and when asked the father's name made up a name which happened to be my cousin's. When asked where he lived she said, "I think he lives in Sacramento."

The family support officer looked in the phone book and found my cousin. He got the letter telling him to support unborn Baby 'X'.

It was pretty entertaining, my cousin having his own family, but the mother of unborn Baby 'X' finally 'fessed' up and admitted she made up the name of the baby's father.

Pilgrim


This is not surprising. I have read material about the DA of LA, Gil Garcetti (remember the OJ trial?) who makes it a point to do this. If given a common name, his office will go after an individual of that name without necessarily ensuring that it is the right individual. And when confronted with the knowledge that his office has made a mistake, let us say that Garcetti and his underlings are not overly concerned. Your cousin was lucky that the mother "fessed up". He could still be paying.

[TallPine]

Sure - they just strap you to the bed and tazer you till you give up :p

[spartacus2002]

This is not surprising. I have read material about the DA of LA, Gil Garcetti (remember the OJ trial?) who makes it a point to do this. If given a common name, his office will go after an individual of that name without necessarily ensuring that it is the right individual. And when confronted with the knowledge that his office has made a mistake, let us say that Garcetti and his underlings are not overly concerned. Your cousin was lucky that the mother "fessed up". He could still be paying.

You are absolutely right. I helped a young man who was stuck paying child support that his father of the same name was supposed to pay. Even though I provided a paternity test, the different SSNs, and a written admission from his father, Garcetti's office refused to do anything about it.

[ibex]

In Germany, the "Social-Democratic Party" tried (or are still trying, not sure) to pass a law that would make private (i.e. not court ordered) paternity tests inadmissible (sp?) in courts. So even if you had absolute, scientific proof that you are not the father, you'd still have to pay child support if your name is on the birth certificate. A court will only order such a test when there is "reasonable doubt" to your paternity. And a negative paternity test is not "reasonable doubt", because it is not admissible.

The "reasoning" (if you can call it that) is that an alleged father has no right to violate a childs privacy by taking a DNA sample. So far so good. But strangely, this party is quite in favor of biometric passports. Even more strangely, it's perfectly okay to violate the childs right to privacy if the mother demands a paternity test.

Luckily, the proposal met with (for german standards) fierce resistance.

I'm not saying, "be glad they can force you take a paternity test, elsewhere they forbid you to take one". I'm just saying, don't oppose this too much, it might backfire.