Brazilian Gun Ban Soundly Rejected!


PDA






The_Shootist
October 23, 2005, 10:07 PM
Amazing! There are fewer sheep in this world than I thought.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9797322/

Interesting stats though - 39000 killed by guns in Brazil each year (population 100 million fewer than than the US) which saw 30000 gun fatalities last year.

But in the US - 17000 of those fatalities are suicides (per CDC) - over 50%. Wonder if the same proportion holds in Brazil or if the bulk of those Brazilian fatalities are true die-hard gang banging type violence. Which would make Brazil less safe to visit then...um...Irag!

If you enjoyed reading about "Brazilian Gun Ban Soundly Rejected!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Hypnogator
October 23, 2005, 10:10 PM
Is it just me, or is there starting to be less tolerance for victim disarmament throughout the nation and the world?

We can always hope.

jsalcedo
October 23, 2005, 10:17 PM
That article was dripping with leftist slant.

Brazilians soundly rejected a proposal to ban the sale of guns in a national referendum Sunday, striking down the bid to stem one of the world’s highest firearm murder rates

Crosshair
October 23, 2005, 10:28 PM
Way to go Brazil.:cool:

Standing Wolf
October 23, 2005, 10:31 PM
Viva Brasil!

Justin
October 23, 2005, 10:37 PM
Interesting stats though - 39000 killed by guns in Brazil each year (population 100 million fewer than than the US) which saw 30000 gun fatalities last year.

Brazil is on the front line of the drug war, which accounts for some of the astounding amounts of violence they have there.

Walter
October 23, 2005, 10:43 PM
That article was dripping with leftist slant.

Absolutely!
"The whole campaign (against the ban) was imported from the United States. They just translated a lot of material from the NRA," said Jessica Galeria, a Californian who researches gun violence with the Viva Rio think tank, referring to the National Rifle Association. "Now, a lot of Brazilians are insisting on their right to bear arms, they don't even have a pseudo right to bear arms. It's not in their Constitution." (from YAHOO.com)

Just something else to blame the NRA for.

Walter

JGR
October 23, 2005, 10:49 PM
Just something else to blame the NRA for.
I'm betting the anti-gunners did a lot of translating for their own side.

cslinger
October 23, 2005, 10:51 PM
"The whole campaign (against the ban) was imported from the United States. They just translated a lot of material from the NRA," said Jessica Galeria,

Everytime an elitist, liberal, rights stealer gets there panties in a wad like this due to the NRA's involvement I feel that my dues have been well spent.

Kudos for Brazil.

ExtremeDooty
October 23, 2005, 11:10 PM
"Now, a lot of Brazilians are insisting on their right to bear arms, they don't even have a pseudo right to bear arms. It's not in their Constitution."

Does she mean the Second Amendment is a "pseudo right?"

Third_Rail
October 23, 2005, 11:47 PM
As if the 2nd Amendment is the REASON we can bear arms. No, it's just the writen statement that we can - we can, regardless of if you or anyone else says we can or can't.


It's a human right, not a law gifted to a select few.

Technosavant
October 24, 2005, 12:29 AM
God bless Brazil.

I'm glad they recognized the necessity to bear arms against those who prey upon the good citizens. Disarmament of the good leads directly to the predominance of the evil. Always has, always will.

Telperion
October 24, 2005, 01:08 AM
Good job, Brazil!

I'm sure the international grabber movement is disappointed they couldn't trick another nation into reducing themselves to unarmed sheep.

An important point is that Brazil has no constitutional 2A equivalent. Brazillians sent the grabbers packing not on legal principle, but because they believe they have a natural right to armed self-defense.

Fletchette
October 24, 2005, 01:16 AM
Great job Brazil!

I am very glad that you fought off this lastest attempt of the globalists to force their will on you!

I listened to the BBC tonight - hilarious! The Brit common-tator acted as if the Brazilians were crazy, with statements like, "what went wrong in Brazil". Unbelievable bias!

Rebecca Peterson was also on - what an elitist! She basically blamed some shadowy conspiracy for hypnotizing the people right before the election. She actually said, "people believe that arming themselves is the best way to protect themselves, which of course isn't true".

I'd have to question HER sanity!

Great job Brazil! :) :) :D

chaim
October 24, 2005, 01:20 AM
I couldn't stop laughing:

“The whole campaign (against the ban) was imported from the United States. They just translated a lot of material from the NRA,” said Jessica Galeria, a Californian who researches gun violence with the Viva Rio think tank

Looks to me like the anti-gun crowd were the ones imported from the United States. Even more "interesting" that this quote was from someone who was herself imported to Brazil from the United States. But it is the campaign against the ban was "imported from the United States", which of course is meant to de-legitimize it :banghead:

wQuay
October 24, 2005, 03:19 AM
"The whole campaign (against the ban) was imported from the United States. They just translated a lot of material from the NRA," said Jessica Galeria, a Californian who researches gun violence with the Viva Rio think tank, referring to the National Rifle Association. "Now, a lot of Brazilians are insisting on their right to bear arms, they don't even have a pseudo right to bear arms. It's not in their Constitution."

That made me laugh. Maybe it's time for Brazil to re-write its Constitution?

Adept
October 24, 2005, 04:40 AM
As if the 2nd Amendment is the REASON we can bear arms. No, it's just the writen statement that we can - we can, regardless of if you or anyone else says we can or can't.


It's a human right, not a law gifted to a select few.

Never been to Australia, have you...

fallingblock
October 24, 2005, 04:55 AM
This denial does NOT mean that our 'right' does not exist!:fire:

Adept
October 24, 2005, 04:57 AM
This denial does NOT mean that our 'right' does not exist!:fire:

While our situation distresses me, I'd argue that the effective definition of a 'right' is simply commonly permissible behaviour.

fallingblock
October 24, 2005, 05:56 AM
"While our situation distresses me, I'd argue that the effective definition of a 'right' is simply commonly permissible behaviour."
**********************************************************


But if you apply the belief and intent of the authors of the U.S. Constitution AND the founders of the U.S. Bill of Rights....

A "Right" is unalienable and endowed by the Creator.

It is NOT a gift from any government.

I'm a Yank and an Aussie, so I make a big deal out of the distinction.

Little Johnny is denying us our "Right" to keep and bear arms.:cuss:

Spiphel Rike
October 24, 2005, 07:03 AM
Any of you other Aussies (if you're still here that is) catch the news story the other day? The doctor in northern QLD with the "huge arsenal".

Sleeping Dog
October 24, 2005, 09:09 AM
The doctor in northern QLD with the "huge arsenal".
Ok, I'll ask the obvious:

"How huge is it?"

Now waiting for the punch line .....

Regards.

AirForceShooter
October 24, 2005, 09:24 AM
my God.
The sheep stood up.
The government types must be going nuts.
Can the revolution be far behind??
Way to go.

AFS

BowStreetRunner
October 24, 2005, 09:28 AM
Great job to Brazil. It is nice to see leftists cry over stuff like this.
BSR

dfaugh
October 24, 2005, 10:10 AM
Viva Brasil!

Well, actually that would be Spanish...They speak Portuguese in Brasil...But my portuguese is rusty (haven't been to Brasil in a few years), so I don't know what they'd say!

Any way, good thing that common sense has prevailed...I really love brazil, and hope to get back there soon...

4v50 Gary
October 24, 2005, 10:13 AM
It gives us hope. In the meantime, throw the scalywags out of office!

Tropical Z
October 24, 2005, 10:27 AM
YES!
Go Brazil!:)

TexasRifleman
October 24, 2005, 10:35 AM
OK so now that it has been stated pretty clearly what the "will of the people" is, what next? I don't know enough about the politics of Brazil to say.

I read that there have been lots of pretty harsh anti gun laws passed over the years and this was just going to be the nail in the coffin.

Is there support to turn anything around as far as private ownership, CCW, etc?

Or did the people just delay things a little.

utahminirevolver
October 24, 2005, 10:58 AM
Definitely, viva Brasil!, or is it something more like, Tuttu bene, mi hirmau?

Now if only more of the brainwashed anti-self-defense types in the First World could become so enlightened. And to avoid charges of smugness, I should disclose that I shamefully once bought into the idea of government gun control too, but saw the light one dark night on an empty street with a thug (luckily, I escaped on my bicycle).

NineseveN
October 24, 2005, 11:03 AM
Good deal Brazil!

Gaiudo
October 24, 2005, 03:42 PM
Having spent a great deal of time in Brazil, including my childhood, the violence there is an interesting factor that should be studied at a deeper level by our own sociologists. In a country of comparative land mass to the lower 48 states, the large criminal elements are located almost entirely within the large central three or four cities - Sao Paulo and its metropolis, Rio de Janeiro with its large gang and drug related culture, Belo Horizonte, and now in the far south with its access to Paraguay/Uraguay Porto Alegre. In these cities, the local governments have almost entirely regulated gun ownership and use; the criminal elements of course have full access to anything they want, including a full array of military weapons unavailable even to the police, anti-personel mines, and stinger misseles. In the large other portions of the country, guns are owned and used widely by the civilian population, and has no such trouble. For example, in the north, Roraima, where I lived, guns are considered every day tools, in a land of farmers which encounter daily dangers from pumas, crocodiles, and a wide varray of other issues.

However, the cities pose and entirely different set of problems, that of the human crime element, and the lack of available policing. Perhaps the best move that the NRA and anti-gun control elements did in Brazil was to question the ability of the state to protect the citizen. The people responded in a resounding NO!!! they are not; two anectodes from my own life in Brazil illustrate this strong distrust in a police force that is underpaid, strikes at will, often recieve their only pay - not from the state, which is often months behind pay schedul - but rather from the criminal elements which line their wallets. Interestingly, major populations centers like Rio trust the gangs more then the police to keep order within the Bairros. As for the two stories:

1) when I lived in Campinas, Sao Paulo, a very good friend of the family lived about 20 minutes away. We had been friends for years, both families, I had dated their daughter, was close friends with their son, our parents went to church together. The father is American (houston area), the mother is English, the children born in Brazil. Their cousins and family lived there with them as well, all americans. Four years ago, at the height of the kidnapping wave that swept Campinas in the late 90's-00's, their cousin, Sunny, was kidnapped and held for ransom by a gang element in the city, an offshoot of the "Red Hand" gang so prevelant in Rio. He had previously been held up that week, along with his sister and younger brother - now the Gang returned and kidnapped him. You have to understand, Sunny was one of those classic American types, rough and tumble, hard-ass, from the sticks of Texas. After three days, when an opportunity presented itself as the gang was relatively drunk on cachasa, he grabbed the leader, whose name was Juarez deMarco, stole his gun, and killed three gang members as he escaped. His return was of course with much fanfare, our church through a party, it was rather an amazing story. The next weekend, the police showed up at Sunny's parent's door, with a warrent to search the house. They removed all weapons from the house as "evidence", including the .45 springfield he had used to kill Juarez. The next morning, a truck-load of gang members swung by the house as Sunny and his father were playing soccer in the front yard. Sunny ran to the house, yelling for his mom to get the guns, only to realize they were gone, taken as "Evidence." Sunny was shot there, slowly, as retaliation for his escape and killing of Juarez. He died in his mother's arms. No police action was taken. Only after an independent investigator was hired by the family was evidence uncovered that the police department had been on the take the entire time, and had removed the guns in preparation of a retaliation attack. The funeral of Sunny was full of grief, but even more by anger. Since that time, five gang members of that group have been found shot and killed, left on the public square, with no indication of who or why they were shot.

2) July, 2003. My parents, along with my younger brother and sister, live in Porto Alegre, Brazil. In 2003, as my brother was riding down the street on the way to basketball practice, he was jumped by four people, well known criminal elements of the area. When they tried to steal his bike, he fought them; the broke a brick over his head, kicked him in the face multiple times, and ran off with the bike. When my father went to report the crime at the police station, he found that the police were on strike that month, and the sergent in charge told him there was "nothing he could do." No file would be reported, no action taken, even though these men were well known for their criminal activity. However, the seargent told my father the following: the name, address, and daily activity of this man, where he could be found at certain hours. He told him: "you find this man, you kill him, and you throw him into the river, and you will be doing us all a favor. We won't stop you, we won't come and find you. If you want something done, you must do it yourself."

I am not condoning this kind of action, although I think that it must be taken into account as an option in a society that offers no rule by law, but instead by the gun. My father, as a missionary, made the decision not to follow up on that plan. I am not sure what I would have done in a similar situation.

Here is the main point: in a place like Brazil, to remove all guns from the people, as happened to Sunny, would be to completely expose them to the will and ire of any criminal element, or any predator. This is no longer theory, but rather a current, simple fact of modern society. It is no wonder that the people of Brazil chose to vote down this referendum, knowing full well the general incompetency of the police, the viciousness of the criminal element, and their own need to fight for survival. I applaud the Brazilian people for taking the initiative to reject this measure. I hope that they will take MUCH further steps in developing a system in which all people - not simply the senators, the rich, the police, and the criminals - are entitled to carry firearms on a daily basis, an option which is not now available to the normal person who cannot pay thousands of dollars a year, renewing his license on a yearly basis. Perhaps, and I pray that it will be, this will be a catalyst for change in that society. As someone who loves Brazil, who would love to take my soon-to-be bride there, perhaps even to live there and teach part-time, I hate the fact that I do not have access to the protection that I would need if I were to take my loved-ones there. I hope that will change.

larry starling
October 24, 2005, 03:59 PM
Way to go Brazil.:cool:
+1 to that!!!!:)

cls12vg30
October 24, 2005, 05:44 PM
Disarmament of the good leads directly to the predominance of the evil. Always has, always will.

...Added to my list of favorite quotes....

viva Brasil.

As Gaiudo said, in that type of situation where the authorities cannot be trusted to serve and protect, a gun in hand is the only thing seperating a peaceful citizen from having to stand by and watch his family brutalized......

But let us not believe that this sort of thing is only normal in South America, the M.E., or other "Third World" regions. I think New Orleans showed us all that our own comfortable little communities can become "Third World" at the drop of a hat. Sometimes I think "First World", "Third World", are just first and third place in the number of foolish illusions they hold.

If you enjoyed reading about "Brazilian Gun Ban Soundly Rejected!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!