[walking arsenal]

I put a Cetme on layaway today under the assumption that it would make a good semiauto hunting rifle or at least be good for SHTF since it "uses" .308. I also put it on layaway so i could keep someone else from buying it while i wen't home and did some research on it. So far, i'm glad i did.

Aparently, from what ive read, the cetme makes a poor rifle.

I like the gun a lot, but i'm not going to buy it if i can't run some kind of expanding point ammo through it or at the least get some possitive remarks on the rifle. Being that i can't run comercial .308 through it the idea that it would make a decent hunting rifle seems to have sailed into the sun.

I need to know two things.

Is it acurate enough to hunt with? Meaning will it group under 6 inches at 300 yards?

And can i get anything other than FMJ surplus to run through it?

Any other experiences people have had with Cetmes good or bad would be helpful as well. I did do a search on them already but wouldnt mind some fresh input.

Thanks, WA

[Rob1035]

I hate to send you away from THR, but there's a great bunch of guys and gals over at cetmerifles.com , I met them at a meet and got to shoot some of their rifles.

Hopefully there's some CETME knowledgable folks around here to respond as well.

[walking arsenal]

Hopefully.

[itgoesboom]

WalkingArsenal,

I have had a CETME for a little more than a year, 1500+ rounds through it (Aussie and Argentine surplus), and have roughly $1k invested in it total.
:what: It is my main SHTF rifle, backed up by my SKS.

So on to your questions:

1. Accuracy - Depends on the rifle. Mine gives about 1-1.5MOA consistantly with Aussie surplus (closer to 1MOA), and Argentine (closer to 1.5MOA). Others have had rifles that wouldn't print better than 3-4MOA no matter what they feed it.

2. Ammo - Also depends on the rifle. I have never tried JHP or Softpoints in mine. But some people have. These rifles are meant to be used with MilSpec ammo, which is slightly different than .308. Mainly the difference is the thickness of the brass - MilSpec is thicker than commercial. The problem comes in that the extraction on these rifles is extemely violent, and the thinner brass can seperate leaving you with half a case in the chamber.

With that said, I have heard of people using Fusion ammo successfully with no problems. I would also check with Georgia Arms, and see what you can get from them.

Other things to note:

These rifles are very much hit or miss. The design is fine. It is basically the grandfather to the MP-5 and the father to the G-3 rifle. Very, very similar, lots of parts interchange.

So it isn't a bad design. It's just that Century Arms International, the company that puts them together in the States does a piss poor job at quality control. Many of the rifles are sold out of specifications. Figure that even on the best of the bunch you are going to have to do some minor smithing, and you don't want to get the worst of the bunch.

If you are going to buy it, make sure you check the bolt gap, and make sure that you aren't getting a ground bolt head, since that is bad. Go to cetmerifles.com to check how to find out about these things.

One other big thing that makes these rifles not so great for hunting is the weight. These things are heavy.

There are some big positives to these rifles.

If you get a good one of course, they are accurate, and extremely reliable, with decent sights. Parts are cheap, as are 20rnd magazines, and the rifle can work very well even if incredibly dirty. Ofcourse, these rifles do get dirty thanks to their blowback action.

If you are getting one with wood stocks, you will be able to scope it fairly easily since those have cast recievers, but if you get a synthetic stocked one the reciever is stamped, and scoping is a pain. Also, if you get a synthetic stocked one, get rid of the crappy plastic stock and get a $30 HK stock set, they are much better.

Here is mine, I have since removed the scope and mount and cheekpiece.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/itgoesboom/CETME1.jpg

I.G.B.

[walking arsenal]

I.G.B

The one i put on layaway is stocked with wood and already has a bi rail scope mount on it as well as a bushnell 13 power (?) scope on it.

I am gambling that the previous owner wouldnt have put that kind of money into a poorly operating rifle. Cast receiver is good juju right?

I diddled (tech term) with it a lot at the shop, it seems to operate smoothly and has a good trigger pull too.

Dunno if that means anything. Really the rifle looks brand new. Is it supposed to look that good? i dunno.

you say guys are having good luck with the fusion ammo? why is that, thicker cases? now im curious.

[Father Knows Best]

Cast receiver? Are you sure? I've never heard of a cast receiver on a CETME. The CETME design, like the very similar G3/HK91/PTR-91, uses a stamped steel receiver.

I have never had a CETME. I do, however, own a PTR-91. The PTR-91 is a current production clone of the HK91, which is in turn the semi-auto version of the NATO standard G3 rifle. It looks and operates just like the CETME, though there are minor dimensional differences so CETME and G3 parts in many cases are not interchangeable.

In general, the CETME and G3 are extremely accurate for battle rifles. The roller-locking delayed blowback action is extremely rugged and reliable.

That said, they wouldn't be my first choice for hunting. Bolt or lever action rifles are much better choices, and will generally be at least as accurate and quite a bit lighter. For a rugged, reliable and accurate battle rifle, though, you can't go wrong with the CETME or G3.

[itgoesboom]

Lets take these one at a time:


The one i put on layaway is stocked with wood and already has a bi rail scope mount on it as well as a bushnell 13 power (?) scope on it.

Good. The bi-rail mount might not be a very good mount, but no big deal, you can always get something else. Sounds like the Tapco mount like I had on mine. Not a great mount in my opinion, but others had better luck.

The original HK mount goes for about $200 right now, and you can get repros for much less. Also, low profile mounts cost between $50 and $150 and are a good bet.

I am gambling that the previous owner wouldnt have put that kind of money into a poorly operating rifle.

Never know. Tapco mount costs <$40, and tapco scopes aren't real expensive, and you never know if the person bought it, and didn't shoot it till he scoped it.

Cast receiver is good juju right?

Yes. For multiple reasons.

1. It has the scope mounting block in front of the sight base, the stamped recievers don't, they just have a hole instead. Sucks bigtime. Thats the reason why I took the scope off of mine.

2. Cast recievers have the proper parts count to remain legal with foreign stocks, like the wood stock. That is good because you don't have to worry about parts count if you want to put on a HK stock set. Some stamped have the right parts count, many don't. Mine didn't. I had to spend extra to buy the parts and then install them myself.

3. Some people seem to think the Cast are put together better. Not sure if this is true, but seems to be the opinion out there.

Ofcourse on the flip side of this, the cast recievers are also out of spec since they are a different thickness. No big deal though.

I diddled (tech term) with it a lot at the shop, it seems to operate smoothly and has a good trigger pull too.

Good. You want the cocking handle to retract smoothly and not require too much force. You need to go hit a hardware store and get a set of automotive feeler gauges, should cost only a few bucks. You use these to check head space. Specs are .004 to .020", but it is better to have it between .005" - .019". Best is to have it at .010-.15".

To check, cock the rifle and pull the trigger on an empty chamber, turn rifle over and insert feeler gauges into the gap between the bolt carrier and bolt head.

Also head over to cetmerifles.com, and look at the pictures of what a ground bolt head and non-ground bolt head look like, and have the sales person help you break down the rifle so that you can check.

If the rifle has a boltgap above .008, non ground bolt head, and the bore looks good, I would say buy it.

Dunno if that means anything. Really the rifle looks brand new. Is it supposed to look that good?

Can be good or bad. That might mean someone took the time to refurbished it, or it might have come from the factory that way. Some people have noticed an odd trend though, the rifles that look beat up sometimes have the best internals and are put together right, and the nice looking ones are the lemons.

you say guys are having good luck with the fusion ammo? why is that, thicker cases? now im curious.

No idea why, but I remember reading some people talk about it. Just get a broken shell extractor just in case.

I.G.B.

[itgoesboom]

Cast receiver? Are you sure? I've never heard of a cast receiver on a CETME. The CETME design, like the very similar G3/HK91/PTR-91, uses a stamped steel receiver.


Original specs call for stamped steel. But Century doesn't always follow the specs.

They make two different rifles, the cast steel and the stamped steel. Cast steel is often times mated with wood stocks, and stamped steel is mated with cheap plastic stocks with no heat guards.

Cast steel has a scope mount block like the HK and original CETMEs had. The Stamped steel has a hole in the top of the reciever where you can put a set screw from some of the scope mounts to keep it from moving. It doesn't work so well in my experience.

I would agree that the PTR-91 would be the way to go if you have the cash. I love my CETME, but I wish I had just gotten the PTR-91.

I.G.B.

[walking arsenal]

I.G.B

Yeah, i looked at tapco just now and they call the scope rail the swat rail or somthing equally tacticool.

Got the feeler guages in my tool box so im set there, i'll give it the once over when im at the shop again on thursday.

What do you mean the cast receivers are out of spec?

[ktd]

I gots me a cast, wood stocked, Century, CETME and I think it is a great rifle. Whether you can shoot .308 out of it is quite debatable, do a search and you will find a ton of heated arguements each way. I only shoot NATO fmjs out of mine. I have had no problems with the thing, and it is very accurate for me and shoots great. The thing is hell on brass due to the fluted chamber, and the design sure slams the cases around, another reason why I only shoot berdan mil ammo.

The only issue I have had with the cast receiver is that it is thicker than the spec, and my genuine HK scope mount does not fit, something has to be filed, either the scope or the mount. I think the cetme FAQ page that is somewhere on the net has a little article on fitting it. I have been too lazy to do it myself.

Look at yours carefully, I got a good one, but there are various cetme cobblers, and the CIA ones as mentioned can be hit or miss, though according to some boards, CIA was good about exchanging rifles until you got a good one.....
k

[walking arsenal]

Yeah, but i don't wanna get caught in the endless cycle of exchanging rifles.

I wanna get mine and go home happy. HAPPY! i say.

[itgoesboom]

I.G.B

What do you mean the cast receivers are out of spec?

KTD has a good example of how they are out of spec. But the truth is also that by being cast they are out of spec. Same reason why Springfield Armory M1As are out of spec, because they aren't forged recievers.

But the cast recievers are also dimensionally out of spec, and I mean more than the stamped ones are, because they are as well.

Not a big deal, you can get a scope mount to fit them still, just may have to do some filing. Thats something you will get used to on these rifles. You can fix almost anything yourself, but it just takes a little work.

As for the replacing the rifle until you get a good one, that used to be the case. Ofcourse, you would have to pay shipping.

Unfortnatly, the rumor is that CAI has decided to stop making the rifles, and are low on stock. One member over at Cetmerifles.com had it happen that CAI couldn't replace it because they didn't have anymore.

With that in mind, best to make sure that you get a good one that functions right in the first place, since getting it replaced now is a iffy bet.

I.G.B.

[itgoesboom]

Yeah, but i don't wanna get caught in the endless cycle of exchanging rifles.

I wanna get mine and go home happy. HAPPY! i say.

Even with mine, bolt gap of .015", accuracy of 1-1.5moa, reliable etc etc....I still had to do quite a bit of work.

The magazines that came with the rifle wouldn't fit and lock in, so that required filing. The extractor spring was broken (rifle still functioned 100% still, see...they work well), and I had to replace many of the trigger parts to comply with 922(r) so I could put on a foreign made stock set.

Just know that no matter what, no matter how much research you do, you will probably still have to fix something.

If that doesn't appeal to you, or if you think that would bother you, I would recommend you getting the PTR-91 instead.

I.G.B.

[walking arsenal]

Ok, got all that.

Now about ammo.

Is there a manufacturer that makes soft point military type ammo?

And what about wolf steel cased .308 or nickel plated .308 ammunition?

would either of those be strong enough to handle a cetme chamber?

[Feanaro]

Steel cases should work in the CETME. I believe H&K even had a little bit of literature bragging about how easily the delayed roller locking system would digest the stuff.