Dig in med kit

[Lupinus]

We hear a lot about BOB's and supply's for riding out and one thing that is fairly constant is a medical kit....but that seems to be all we say med or first aid kit and not some of the things that should be in there. Personally I like putting together my own because frankly a lot of the med kits on the market (at least in my area I have found) are garbage. They are overpriced and contain hundreds of Band-Aid's and not much else. Fine for paper cuts or most thing's you might encounter in everyday use but for SHTF use a bunch of band aids and a few pouch's of first aid cream isn't going to do you much good.

Me I consider there to be two types of med kit for SHTF- Bug out and Dig in. Bug out being smaller more mobile and prioritized with less variety. Not quite as many things in it but the essentials are still there and in smaller amounts. The dig in being larger and better supplied with a larger content of things and things that are nice to have.

So just what is in your med kit? Either bug out or dig in.

Here is my dig in med kit-
Note: I wont be listing foods or solar blankets and such that come in some kits or some would. Personally I consider them separate for such a kit.

Storage
1 Stanley 24" Series 2000 Tool Box. Tool Box's you can carry make excellent med kit box's.

Bandages
2 or more rolls of waterproof medical tape
Box of 250 band aids in assorted sizes and styles
Box of 50 sterile gauze sponges 4x4 I like the big ones. For swabbing you can cut and save them. For bandaging you have big if you need it or you can cut it down and save the extra for swabbing gauze.
1 ten count each box of non-stick large medium and small gauze pads.
7 3x79in sterile rolls of gauze.
1 2x79in roll of gauze for smaller injuries
1 4.5in x 4.1yard roll of Kerilex
2 10 count boxes of butterfly closures. Closes wounds nice and its better then stitching yourself shut
1 80 count cotton ROUNDS. Fills the same roll of cotton balls and are great for swabbing and spreading medication. I like the rounds though as they are more compact then the traditional cotton balls.

Medicines and the like
2 16oz bottle hydrogen peroxide
1 100 swab box of alcohol pads (I use alcohol a lot less the HP and the swab pads take up less room then a bottle and the gauze to swab with separately)
2 6oz bottles of Band Aid antiseptic wash. Flushes wounds, helps relieve wound pain and is an antiseptic. Great stuff.
1 8oz bottle of Iodine solution (kills germs and stuff)
1 6oz bottle Calamine Lotion- Anti itch for poison ivy and the like
1 4oz bottle eye wash
1 1oz tube anti-itch cream
2 1oz tubes first aid cream
1 36 count pack of "Swab Plus" Basically a q-tip with antiseptic stuff in it. You crack one end the other saturates with the antiseptic. Good little item to have.
1 1.69 oz spray bottle of blood stop. That or I would find some other blood clotting agent.
1 3.75oz container of petroleum jelly. Good for chapping burns and the like.
1 bottle each of ibuprofen and asprin.

Hardware
Scissors- One each of pointy scissors for general cutting and one pair of the blunted flattened on one end scissors for removing bandages.
1 50 count box of latex gloves. They aren't sterile but they are better then nothing.
3 instant ice packs- The kind you snap or punch to activate...SHTF and you don't have ice the old ice bag wont be helping you
1 pair of tweezers
2 Ace Bandages
2 thermometers- Both the easy read that goes on the forehead and traditional tube type of thermometer.
Various sizes of finger splints or tongue depressors for use in a pinch
Razor blades- Not the kind that goes in your gelette turbo but the flat ones (I prefer the ones with only one sharp side though). Or scalpels if you can find them. I don't advocate removing your own spleen but when you get a deep hunk of wood imbedded in your arm or have a blister that needs to be lanced they are a lot better then a pocket knife. ALWAYS sterilize them first if you have to do any cutting.

I would like to have smell salts/ammonia spirits (crack them pass and then pass them under someone's nose to wake them up) but I couldn't find the things anywhere.

Notice I have several styles and types of medicines that do basically the same thing, here's why- Liquids and ointments serve different roles better. If you run into poison ivy and it is large it is going to be easier to spread liquid calamine lotion over that area then it is an anti-itch ointment. Same reason why there and antiseptic wash's and the iodine solution along with those q-tip swabs and first aid cream. All do very similar things but are best used under different circumstances. Also they are outright different medications. Calamine lotion uses Calamine and Pramoxine while anti itch cream uses hydrocortisone. Both do basically the same thing but being entirely different medications you have more options and a backup if one medication doesn't work for it. Same with antiseptics and first aid cream. All of the ones listed use a different medication. If you don't get results with one you can switch to another and hope for better results. Also in the case of the calamine lotion the bottle is 6 oz's while the tube of anti-itch cream is 1 oz. The bottle takes up as much room as 2 or three tubes of the ointment would so in some cases a bottle actually saves space depending on the quantity you have.

So that is my dig in kit it's a bit big and bulky and if you bug out it will be a pain to carry around but that isn't what its designed for. At most it's designed to be carried to the injured person who presumably isn't all that far so it isn't designed for mobility, it's designed for somewhat long term dig in and not for bug out.

So what's in your dig in med kit?

[charby]

Might want to throw in a few maxi pads (female products) not for females but they make good bandages for larger cuts. I have a few in my first aid supplies.

Charby

[Lupinus]

interesting and sounds like a good idea actually......

but.....just how do you know this? lol

[riverdog]

I used a USGI ammo can to make a med kit. Kinda hard to lug that around though so recently I grabbed a Adventure Medical kits (http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/) Wound Closure Kit. It's about teh same size as their Pocket Survival Pack (http://www.equipped.org/psp/):
1..... Irrigation Syringe
1..... Povidone Iodine Solution
10... Wound Closure Strips
2..... Tincture of Benzoin
4..... 2x2 Sterile Dressing
1..... Antibiotic Ointment
6..... Antiseptic Towelettes

You can always add a few band-aids.

[JamisJockey]

I just picked up an off the shelf first aid kit that was pretty comprehensive. Needs to go into my bug out box, though.

[Dr.Rob]

Pick up a boy scout first aid manual... it's a pretty good primer on trauma first aid, will teach you how to tie a sling, make a tourniquet etc.

I've found some things you don't list that are in my kit: large gauze pads treated for BURNS... these are impregnated with a gel-like substance that keeps air away from burns. I had to use them when my brother flipped a Honda Scrambler, landed with a tail pipe across his arm.... sizzle. Burns are common injuries when 'roughing it' and being around Coleman fuel, gas, open flame etc. Burns also get easily infected.

Those cold packs are a great idea and they WORK... you can use them to help drop a fever as well as control swelling.

Anyone considered taking that trip "across the border" for antibiotics? (I realize they have a shelf life and should only be used in exteme circumstances)

Those clotting agents work well... but what are the consequences of using them without getting to proper medical facilities?

[Drysdale]

Ammonia inhalents: http://www.first-aid-product.com/industrial/ammonia-inhalants.htm

Other side of the pond:
http://www.firstaid4sport.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=2236&SHOP


Google's a wonder sometimes :)

I also have superglue in my 1st aid kits... it's better than bandages for some cuts!

[wdlsguy]

Pick up a boy scout first aid manual... it's a pretty good primer on trauma first aid, will teach you how to tie a sling, make a tourniquet etc.

Throw in a copy of "Where There Is No Doctor" while you're at it.

http://healthwrights.org/books/WTINDonline.htm

[Lupinus]

Pick up a boy scout first aid manual... it's a pretty good primer on trauma first aid, will teach you how to tie a sling, make a tourniquet etc.

Yeah there are a lot of good manuals out there. To me though a manual has a better place on the bookshelf then in the med kit. While you are dealing with a problem thats the time to know what you are doing no be thumbing through a manual. BOB would be a good place for it but this is an at home dig in kit.

The burn pads are great but personally I'd rather use space for gauze I can use in general. If air has to be kept away I have a container of petrolum jelly (Vasoline). If need be you can coat gauze in that or the wound itself. May not be 100% the same but i'd say it would be mighty clsoe to any preinpregnated pad.

Anyone considered taking that trip "across the border" for antibiotics?
That would be great but unless you have directions on doseage Im not sure on the danger for overdose. Plus a lot of people throw something in their med kit and never look at it agian. They would fall under a nice to have be very responsable if you do though catagory.

Those clotting agents work well... but what are the consequences of using them without getting to proper medical facilities?
I have CVS blood stop (yeah generics nine times out of ten are as good as name brands) and it says that it doesn't need to be removed. Not sure about other products though so I would check when buying it. Basicly what I have sprays a very fine powder that gels the blood and helps it clot. I don't know about all prducts though so I'd check them before buying.

also have superglue in my 1st aid kits... it's better than bandages for some cuts!
Yes superglue is wonderful stuff. Ever gone to the ER and gotten them liquid stiches? It's basicly superglue. I am a big fan of butterfly closures and what I overlooked superglue. Some people say put a needle and thread in there but I don't suggest it. If it is a wound so deep butterflys or superglue wont do it then thread isn't going to help. When a Dr. stiches that deep the ones they use disolve regular thread wont. That and regular thread would be likly to cause infection. On the short term it might be ok but I wouldn't take the chance and anythign that msot people are capable of stichign themselves a butterfly or superglue can handle. Plus I'd much rather butterfly myself then sew myseld lol

[svtruth]

Would go with full on wilderness medicine book instead of Boy Scouts.
You have 2 NSAIDS aspirin and ibuprofen, would add acetominophen (TYlenol).
Benadryl for allergies.
Supply of Rx meds for anyone in party.
Neosporin cream.
Good luck.

[charby]

interesting and sounds like a good idea actually......

but.....just how do you know this? lol

Actually an Air Force PJ suggested it to me when I was in Civil Air Patrol as a teen.

[Tokugawa]

Silvadene (silvadine?) cream for burns-smoked off my face and it worked real well, for healing and preventing infection.

[hso]

Training

You forgot Teguderm or Bioclusive, QuickClot packs, and an Air Cast.

[GunnySkox]

Speaking of QuikClot, I'd recomment looking at other clotting agents if you're of a mind to have them. I can't recall where (except that the site was linked by Doc Russia's Blog "Bloodletting" http://bloodletting.blog-city.com ) but that stuff can be nasty if you're not careful with it. The chemical reaction it uses to soak up water is exothermic (i.e., it releases energy), and if you aren't careful to wipe away all water and such around the (profusely bleeding, if you're using QuikClot) wound, the reaction can be so vigorous as to cause second degree burns around the wound.

Just passing on what I know.

~GnSx

[edman]

Here is a link I found for complete sets of Medical videos.

http://www.brooksidepress.org/products.htm

I will be ordering the Military Field Surgery ones.


Also here is a good link to some training.

http://www.medicalcorps.org/

[Dr.Rob]

I wasn't suggesting a book IN your kit, I was suggesting you read up on first aid before you make your kit.

That's good to know about Quick-Clot... I was mildly concerned you'd use it then die from DVT or a stroke later.

I always keep New Skin handy... that's antiseptic grade super glue, it doesn't dry quite as fast as the 'real' stuff but it's close.

[R.H. Lee]

Anyone considered taking that trip "across the border" for antibiotics? (I realize they have a shelf life and should only be used in exteme circumstances)
That would be my concern. If I'm going to get a wound serious enough to require 'Quick-Clot', infection would be sure to follow.

[NMshooter]

Those dressings with chitosan are better than Quick Clot, will not fry you.

Lupinus, your basic kit is a good one, I might recommend foreceps, a couple clamps, and a flashlight, some more 4x4s could not hurt. Various military and civilian wound dressings available, get some of those, especially for any personal med kits.

Oh, and a SAM splint or two could be very useful, as well as a few cravats (triangle bandages, you can make out of any large square of fabric, cotton that has been washed in the washing machine and put in ziplock bags should be ok.)

The Red Cross offers first aid and CPR classes, many local community colleges offer EMT classes, those are a good way to learn.

If anyone wants a .pdf listing contents of various military med kits PM me and I will email it. The .pdf is too big to upload here.

[MillCreek]

I was a paramedic in my youth and my wife was an independent duty corpsman in the Navy for part of her 20 year career. I would think about including some broad spectrum antibiotics in any major medical kit. Infection can be a killer. If your physician will not write a prescription, an easy source for many antibiotics is the fish care section of a large pet store. You will see a broad selection of various antibiotics designed to be put into the fish tank. They are also suitable for human use. Consult any of the major medical guides for indications for use and dosage.

[wingnutx]

This reminds me, I need to buy some quick-clot.

[Joey2]

MillCreek is right on the money. Infection can be a killer espically out in the field with less than ideal sanitary conditions.

The contents listed on the first thread is very adequate.

Mine contains medical supplies that will stop the bleeding, clear the air ways and treat for shock beyond that I need professional help.

Wounds can be very nasty and very tramatic to the person. I have seen on numerous occasions where the stomach was blown out with intestines laying all over the place even a piece hanging from a near tree.

Fortunate for this Marine we had a corpman who knew what to do and we were able to get him out immediately.

My point is have very large bandages on hand that will absorb a lot of blood and stop the bleeding.

[Lupinus]

I for one figure that most wounds I'd reasonable have to deal with could be taken care off with proper irigation and dressing. Antibiotics would be good but using them wrong can be equally deadly as infection.

As for guts hanging from a tree like christmas lights unless im near a dr I figure they are screwed reguardless of how much bleeding I can stop

[Lupinus]

I am thinking about adding a surgical kit to it to. Wouldn't try open heart surgery but SHTF and there is no help to come and someone has something inbedded in their shoulder its going to be better then nothing. Though I have to wonder about doing something liek that without a way to put the person out :confused:

[Sam]

I would add a surgical kit and I would take the trouble to learn the language.
I do not reccomend trying to become a surgeon from a book, but if you have the tools, knowledge of the concept of germs and the book you are 1000% better prepared than the first person that ever removed an appendix, amputated a limb or sewed up a bad cut. If you, a pal or loved one have a certainty of dying from peritonitis or the opportunity for a sporting chance at life what is the choice?

I would make a point of obtaining as many different broad spectrum antibiotics as I could lay hands on(knew Mexico and the feed store were good for something). There are good and reasonable docs that can and will help you with advise on selection, use and prescriptions for meds if you can articulate some concept of need, judgement, and discretion.

Equipped, prepared, and properly referenced, you can match a GP prior to 1920, and can technologically surpass most of those through 1945. Lots of good work was done in those days with inadequate knowledge, no equipment and no antibiotics. A bit of sulfa, tetracycline or penicillin will boost the odds substantially in your favor. A small quantity of narcotics can also be useful. You ain't going to resect a bowel by the numbers, or do neurosurgery, but could easily do an appendix once you overcome your squeamishness.
Just something to think about. You might even stumble over a stray doc with no equipment.

Sam

[Lupinus]

Sam-
I agree on not trying to be a surgon from a book but you raise good points as well. I was thinking a large piece of debris needing to be removed but with good manuals Im sure various things could be taken care of. Maybe not heart and brain (though the romans managed 2000 years ago :neener: ) surgery. But "simpler" surgical precedures the chances with you acuring the basic tools and knowlage are a lot better then they would be otherwise. 100% zero chance of a Dr. and you with a good knowlage of the human anatomy and taken the time to study basic precedures they are better off then nothing and if its life threating as a last resort you trying is better then nothing and there isn't much to loose.

The more this thread goes the more I am liking the idea of antibiotics the problem though is getting them I think. I don't see a doctor being willing to jsut write out some antibiotic scripts to cover a wide range of aplications. Though maybe if you can get pain pills online you can get antibiotics?

At the very least I am thinking on getting a surgical kit and learning basic steps for proper incision debris removal and suturing. Though the problem that still arises is that of putting someone to sleep while you do it? Say someone gets shot in the shoulder or has a hunk of wood imbedded in their leg I can't the average person sitting to still while you cut into them remove the debris and suture them shut. So I wonder on ways to overcome that? Antibiotics I am sure someway somehow you could get them but something to knock someone out short of a hammer might be a bit hard to get your hands on.

[Sam]

If you don't have a friendly doc:
Go to the pet department at Wal Mart.
They have tetracycline for dosing fish tanks.
Your local feed store will have amoxicillin and and a couple of others available without prescription. Check out the veterinary supply houses on line. They have a large number of items available without prescription along with syringes and other items.
I am not a doc or a surgeon, but I have been sewing up dogs, and livestock since I was 14 or 15. Sewed up a couple of GIs on deployment and they lived. Doc says I do pretty sutures. Only ever lost one patient,an angora nanny that developed gangrene after being set on by a pack of dogs. Common sense told me to shoot her that night but I figured I had nothing to loose.

Have the stuff
Read all the books
(Start with a reference copy of Grays Anatomy and a PDR then scarf up all those GI meatball surgery manuals) Johnson and Johnson Ethicon division used to ahve a 150 page on line manual for suturing that is really good but I cannot find it anymore

Most of the livestock will sit real still for you,they know you are helping them. My dogs are especially calm when I work on them and people too if you don't wait too long. The pain of the wound masks what is really minor pain of suturing. If I get an uppity sheep or calf, I blindfold them, tape a couple of rags over their nose and wet the rags with starting fluid, just enough to make them woozy I suspect it would work as well with people.
I DO NOT RECCOMEND DOSING JUNIOR WITH ETHER! But plenty of folks never had anything better than a big glass of whisky or 5-6 strong buddies to hold 'em down. Remember stuff like this is for emergencies when there isn't any other medical help.

When the time comes that you have nothing to loose, you will know.


Sam

P.S. I don't think highly of quick clot and ground cayenne works just as well without the exothermic reaction.

[Lupinus]

after reading some of the things about quick clot im starting to liek the idea less as well.

Any good alternatives? I have a spray of something that is suppsoed to help clot blood and is basicly a fine powder. Im not sure of any other alternatives

[Sam]

Like I said in the P.S. Ground Cayenne.

Sam

[Lupinus]

that doesn't sound any more pleasent in an open wound lol

[Sam]

Totally painless.
Try it on your next cut. It works, it's safe, its inexpensive, it has no side effects unless you are allergic to it.

Sam

[Lupinus]

If I try it on my next cut and it burns like the morning after a night out at a bad Mexican resurant do I get to come to your house and dump some in your eyes?

[Sam]

Sure come on down.
I have to advise you that I got my 3rd dose of OC this week and am building an immunity. Silly MP in a redman think a little OC gonna make me inefective!
Wailed him but good and pitched him inthe concertina:neener:

Sam

[mitchshrader]

cause you'll maybe need em. a broken bone isn't going to quit throbbing, even set, for a day or two. small bones break EASY.

equally, after major shakeups, (no cuts, no bones broken, 'banged around' as in a moderate car wreck or tossed off a rodeo bull) a bit of narcotic will let you sleep 10-12 hours and cuts healing time way down.

how to get? good question. street isn't good. Back pain? allergic to aspirin & tylenol? I am, docs give me regular codeine. tends to stack up. Dentists can prescribe pain pills, (vicoden) and often will. Need a root canal? you'll likely get antibiotics AND pain pills.

Nothing wrong with animal antibiotics, given the need.
Hemostats for clamping blood vessels if needed are the main thing i didn't notice in your list. Couple pair, small, one curved one straight.. I'd toss in a couple curved needles and thread too. Some spray on anesthetic or liquid if you need long term storage. (Xylocaine)

Diarrhea medicine. STRONG diarrhea medicine. Charcoal tabs, immodium, pepto bismol tabs. food poisoning is no joke.

[Thin Black Line]

Training

You forgot Teguderm or Bioclusive, QuickClot packs, and an Air Cast.

+1 on Training. Watching videos will not train you to do an IV. This is not
like watching Bob's Build Your Own AR15 video and doing it for real
afterwards. It helps to have an instructor who will do practice scenarios
and watch you.

Quik-Clot is great provided it isn't poured into a sucking chest wound.

Tampons are good for 30cal holes. And, guess what, they're made for
self-application ;)

Don't forget a tourniquet. Carry it on you.