SHTF: Would you hand a spare sidearm to an untrained adult?

[Krenn]

So, you're in the parking lot, or the office, or you're at home with guests, or whatever situation you care to name. You don't have any dependents you need to take care of present, but within reach of you is an adult whom you know a little, but not well. (cousin, co-worker, neighbor, etc.) You suddenly hear gunfire from nearby, but it's out of sight for the moment: in a different room or building. you have TWO sidearms, at least one of which is fairly user-friendly, and maybe 15-30 seconds before you will likely have to (or choose to) face the threat.

So Here's the question: do you hand the other adult a loaded gun, along with a ten second explanation of how to use it, or do you take your chances alone? to the best of your knowledge the adult is mentally and emotionally stable... but you don't know how well they handle stress and danger, or how much hollywood sillyness they've soaked up... and you KNOW they've never used a gun before.

edit: you will most likely be leaving them behind as a rear guard, in case you die or get outflanked. still, there are considerations to be had here... and you never now who'll get it into their head to play untrained hero.

[Michael Courtney]

There are cases in which I would and cases in which I would not. It depends on my assessment of the individual's judgment. However, I would be very slow to leave the room and go mobile. Why not just stay put and cover the door? (In that case, I like the idea of having two adults with guns pointed at the door rather than just one.) If I do have some compelling reason to go mobile (family members in need of rescue), odds are much greater that I'm bringing the second gun with me. In other cases where there is a need to go mobile (fire, etc.) then the other person needs to go mobile also.

Michael Courtney

[svtruth]

Think I'd keep both guns and give them the cel phone.

[enfield303]

I'd give him the cell phone and then go all John Woo style. J/K. Most of my friends are fairly gun savvy(one of the dangers of hanging out with Enfield). I would have no problem giving one of my sidearms to a friend if I knew that he could handle it. Side note. I just noticed. This is my 223rd post. Guess I need to get an M-4 ton celebrate!:D Right?

[Mulliga]

No.

[Jeff White]

You heard gunshots? You're a private citizen and don't have any obligation to respond? Why are you even investigating? Seems to me you should be moving away from the gunfire to a safe area. And no I wouldn't hand a firearm to someone who didn't know what to do with it. It would be hard enough getting them through the danger area. Why would I want to add to that problem by worrying the person would shoot when they didn't need to or have an ND that might hit me?

Jeff

[scottgun]

I am hesitant about giving a close friend or family member one of my weapons. It would have to be extreme circumstances that I would give a spare weapon to a casual acquaintance.

Essentially, No, I would not give an untrained, semi-familiar person a gun.

[Devonai]

It depends on the answer given by the individual:

MCLANE: You know how to use a handgun, Bill?

GRUBER: I spent a weekend at a combat ranch. You know that game with the guns that shoot red paint? It must seem kind of stupid to you.

MCLANE: Well, time for the real thing, Bill.

:D

Seriously, though, if the person says they've never fired a pistol, I wouldn't give them one unless I was incapacitated beyond the ability to use one myself.

[hso]

You're not exposed to a direct threat and you're not heading for cover while calling 911???

IFF it were not my home or home of a family member there is no good enough reason to risk orphaning my daughter.

[R.H. Lee]

A revolver, maybe. Not a semiauto.

[1 old 0311]

I am with R.H. ANYONE knows the basis of a wheel gun. 1911 or Sig? No way

Kevin

[Buzztail]

No, but I'd give them a ten second "how to load magazines for me" training session and slide them up next to an ammo can. :D

[Dr.Rob]

Yeah and then I'd ask him if he'd like to be Batman's special friend. :confused:

If it's happening in the next ROOM there won't be time to explain anything to 'the new guy/girl.'

If it's happening down the block we have plenty of time to get out of dodge or at least SEEK COVER rather than run towards the gunfire... which I think every cop on this forum would agree is a bad idea. Esp. if those shots were fired by cops. The last thing our law enforcement officers want is two unknown but armed subjects running towards them after discharging their firearms.

If you are worried about the other guy playing hero, sound of gunfire should get my attention but it's not turning me into Audie Murphy.

[jamz]

I'd give him/her a gun only in the absolute worst case scenario where our chances of survival are 50/50 at best, and I would make damn sure that they were in FRONT of me when they had it. :)

-Jmaes

[Scott F]

No, there is no need at this time. Call 911, take defensive position and stay put.
I am not a LEO and I do not want to risk turning a cowboy loose.

[nfl1990]

If I heard this I would simply wonder wich neighbor was target shooting.

But anyway, NO I would most definatly not give someone a pistol who has never shot before. It would be like handing my grandmother a .357, BAD idea.

[NMshooter]

Do not think there could be a situation where I would give a firearm to anyone I did not know well enough to trust.

And the folks I am willing to trust that far have their own already...

[f4t9r]

NMshooter I am with ya all the way
My thoughts exactly

[dpesec]

I agree with almost everybody here. There's no reason to get involved. Call 911 report shots fired and leave my feet do the talking. This is assuming there's no threat to me. If my loved ones were inside, I'd still leave the LEOs handle it. Why, because if I go in, I'm risking my life plus giving the potential BGs additional firepower.
Acutally this would never happen, because I'm never that far away from my GF when we're together.

[goalie]

NO.

Unprepared people should be used in a manner more suited to their level of training. The person you described would fall into the catagory of BAIT or DISTRACTION, and definately does not fall into the catagory of armed respondent.

;)

[Buzztail]

BAIT or DISTRACTION:D
You forgot shield;)

[Joey2]

Hell no. You already have enough on your plate to deal with without having to worry about getting shot by accident.

I would use him as a gofer and train him as time presents itself.

[lee n. field]

So Here's the question: do you hand the other adult a loaded gun, along with a ten second explanation of how to use it, or do you take your chances alone? to the best of your knowledge the adult is mentally and emotionally stable... but you don't know how well they handle stress and danger, or how much hollywood sillyness they've soaked up... and you KNOW they've never used a gun before.

NO.

Proper gun handling is not intuitive. He'll be a walking violation of all the gun handling rules.

They've almost certainly absorbed TeeVee's notions about how guns work, and how they're used. He'll know that his finger is supposed to go inside the trigger guard, and by golly that's where he'll put it. He won't have a clue about how LOUD it will be when it goes off, or how to handle recoil. He be pointing it at himself, at you, etc. A disaster waiting to happen.

[JamisJockey]

You heard gunshots? You're a private citizen and don't have any obligation to respond? Why are you even investigating? Seems to me you should be moving away from the gunfire to a safe area. And no I wouldn't hand a firearm to someone who didn't know what to do with it. It would be hard enough getting them through the danger area. Why would I want to add to that problem by worrying the person would shoot when they didn't need to or have an ND that might hit me?

Jeff

+1

Hold your ground. Mall Ninjas go looking for trouble. Smart people stay put and ambush trouble when it comes to them.

[Lupinus]

Depending how well they seemed to handle themselves. If they seem to be freezing I wouldn't bother as it isn't going to do any good. But if they seem cool and calm and able to handle themselves I would give them the gun that was more user friendly and better for them depending on the situation. I'd also give them the caliber with more stopping power. Here's why- Say you have a 45 on your hip and a 32 or something in an ankle holster. The 32 would get the job done but you need to hit vitals...a bulelt in the shoulder isn't going to do it. Now since I am likly the better shot I know I can hit vitals while he has less chance of doing it. Now with the .45 on the other hand so long as it goes center of mass odds are more likly to neutralize the threat, putting it in the shoulder it has the stopping power to put him down unlike the 32.

[JamisJockey]

Depending how well they seemed to handle themselves. If they seem to be freezing I wouldn't bother as it isn't going to do any good. But if they seem cool and calm and able to handle themselves I would give them the gun that was more user friendly and better for them depending on the situation. I'd also give them the caliber with more stopping power. Here's why- Say you have a 45 on your hip and a 32 or something in an ankle holster. The 32 would get the job done but you need to hit vitals...a bulelt in the shoulder isn't going to do it. Now since I am likly the better shot I know I can hit vitals while he has less chance of doing it. Now with the .45 on the other hand so long as it goes center of mass odds are more likly to neutralize the threat, putting it in the shoulder it has the stopping power to put him down unlike the 32.

Somewhere, some mall has lost its Ninja.

[kannonfyre]

Well over here in Singapore....

...IF we had RKBA, which we DON'T,

....and if firearms were affordable, which they AREN'T,

then it would depend very much on the type/make of the aforesaid gun. ALL males above the age of 17 are drafted to serve 2 years in the Army/AF/Navy/Police or Civil Defence Corps. With the exception of the CD Corps, the armed services/police will all have been qualified with the M-16 or similar rifle while the cops would have had additional qualifications with remy 12ga pump-actions/taurus revos.

Hence, unless my newly pressed-into-service fire support buddy was in the CD corps when he was a draftee, I'd be ok with handing him any military 5.56mm forgery type rifle. Similarly, I'd be okay handing an ex-draftee cop a revolver/pump-action longarm.

However, if the adult in question was female then I would not be comfortable passing any gun to her as they are not compulsarily trained by law. However, possible exceptions are women who were volunteer high school police/military cadets (our version of the JROTC). In that case, any former military cadet would have qualified with an M-16 at 100 meters and should be ok with a similar rifle while any former female police cadet would have qualified with a .22lr revolver and would be fine with a similar handgun.

[Lupinus]

Somewhere, some mall has lost its Ninja.

waaaa *8busts out the cheesy kung fu moves** :neener:

[RyanM]

Anyone competent enough to handle a firearm in a crisis situation will already have one (or two, or three) close at hand. If they don't, tough.

[Biker]

Nope. Unless it's my wife, any extra guns I have stay with me. Incidentally, I'm not sure that there is such a thing as an 'extra' gun.;)
Biker

[geekWithA.45]

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as an 'extra' gun.

That would be gun #4.

Rationale:

one for each hand, one for backup = 3

The backup's backup can be reasonably termed "the spare".

And to answer the question, It depends.


If the SHTF, there are people I plan to arm, and the rest I'll judge.

In general, I would not depend on an untrained person to cover my back, and even statically posting them with instructions to cover my retreat is debateable. If I armed them at all, it would be something like, "Hide here, keep your head down, and this is for _IF_ the bad guys find you."

[gunsmith]

no way!

I've talked to too many morons...i may not be the smartest guy when it comes to many many things, but I know I can rely on myself in an emergency and being ready for them is my hobby.
so many people I've talked to say they know about guns and shooting but most of the time they really dont.
I've had MP's tell me I shouldn't carry my glock with a round in my chamber while on duty as a security guard...and I've had an armed loomis guard tell me how she isn't going to "shoot to kill" but shoot the bad guy trying to kill her in the leg!:barf:

[Hawkmoon]

How, exactly, does hearing what might be gunshots from an adjacent building get elevated to SHTF level?

As already commented, under the conditions presented, the appropriate response is to pick up the phone, dial 9-1-1, and tell the nice dispatcher that you think you heard gunfire.

[Krenn]

sorry, when I wrote that, I tried to set up the situation so that it was (1) potentially universal to the members of the board, (2) gave several seconds of prep time, and (3) required offensive or defensive fire-arm readying.

I think I over-generalized, though, and lost the 'immediacy''

the theory of the situation is that you EITHER have a moral imperative to intervene, OR MUST expect that the gunfire will come to you sooner or later.

so, maybe you're in a glass-walled office on the second floor, along with someone else, and you're watching first-floor co-workers be gunned down in the two-floor-high atrium. Or you're in the basement of a neighbor's house and you hear the front door being kicked in... I guess i didn't make the implied rules of the scenario clear.

not like that would stop Internet forum members in any event...:rolleyes:

[Borachon]

How I might be convinced to give a gun to someone unfamiliar with one.

Scenario #1:
"It's real simple ma'am! They're aliens from another world! They're shooting everyone they see!"

Mumbled response.

"I don't know HOW they got here! But they're coming through the North door and the South door in about 30 seconds. I can cover the South door...but I need you to shoot at any THING that comes through the North door. Here's the Rules real quick.
1. Don't point the gun at ME.
2. Keep squeezing the trigger until your target falls down.
3. When you run out of ammo, reload by pressing this button, slapping this magazine in here, and pulling back on this handle. Then start squeezing the trigger again.

I'd tell you more if I had time, but I don't think we've got any left....I just thank the Almighty you're here with me, Ms. Feinstein!

:)

[Ryder]

I would if I deemd it a guaranteed no-win situation on my own. Guns aint rocket science. I began using them with certain expertise right from the start (age 7). All my kids shot a beautiful first group and have exhibited excellent safety mannerisms right from the start. They got a younger start than I did and as it turns out my hawkish supervision wasn't even needed. There are people I wouldn't trust with a loaded gun but they are easily distinguished. I've trained lots of people their first time shooting and all have been very safety conscious of endangering others.

My family members have access to my loaded guns when I am not home or otherwise. They've no formal training other than what I've given them. It is enough to defend their lives and that is the priority. Me being accidentally shot by them in self-defense of their lives isn't a concern to me.

Gunsmith said - I've had MP's tell me I shouldn't carry my glock with a round in my chamber while on duty as a security guard.

Isn't that a direct quote from the factory safety manual? What's the problem with being told that?

[Mannlicher]

Absolutly NOT

[SalukiFan]

I agree with the majority of the folks who say no. With someone who has never handled a gun before, the chances of an ND in a stressful situation would be too high. I don't think the few seconds to explain would be long enough to convince them that unlike Hollywood, you don't have to always keep your finger on the trigger and the chances of an ND that might hurt you or someone else innocent in that situation would be pretty high.

I'll take my chances by myself in this situation.

[Sewerman]

No!

[Working Man]

Not unless I was going to die if I didn't. But......

I took my friend and his SO out shooting when they came down from CO. a
few weeks ago. She had never shot a firearm but was willing to try. We
sarted her with a Ruger GP100 with .38s then moved up to .357s then on to the HK .45. Alls I could say was WOW, for a first time shooter she made no,
and I mean no mistakes. I gave her a brief run through of safety and aiming
and explained trigger pull to her. As well as what sort of movement she could
expect from said firearms.

She shot consistent, controlled, and accurate. At 25 feet her shots could be
covered by the palm of my hand.

So there are a few that are good "out of the box" but how do you know till
the SHTF.

[riverdog]

No way would I give a novice or someone I don't know well a firearm. You're better off without back-up than with back-up you can't rely on. Without back-up you know you're on your own. With back-up you might try something that requires your back-up to actually perform. Better off to stick with things you know.

Now to the scenario discussion: Why is this hero rushing toward gunfire in an unknown situation. He knows nothing about how many perps, how many potential hostages/victims. How about call 9-1-1 to report shots fired and hunker down to defend the Keep. If the fight does arrive I'd rather be behind cover than out walking in the hall.

[Boss Spearman]

I second svtruth's comment. Under no circumstances will I ever hand anyone untrained a loaded firearm.

[Black Majik]

Absolutely not.

Firstly theres no reason going to look for the trouble. Stay put, go back to the apt and wait there. No point looking for where the gunshots came from.

Main reasons I wouldn't give an untrained person a firearm is because I dont want the person to shoot me accidentally (both ND and shooting anyone they see).

The cops can handle all that stuff, they're trained for that. Me... I'm going back in and watching tv.

[mitchshrader]

you'ld GIVE it to em.

loaners ain't real. if you trust them enough at your back with a loaded weapon to DONATE it to their ongoing defense.. (which i do hope is rare, otherwise I'd like a RB model 13)

then loan it to em. VERY doubtful that they'll fire appropriately. Less likely than that they'll fire EFFECTIVELY. If you've taken a hit already, the equation changes. Not a Lot...

[bachman1961]

I'm pretty sure I'd be legally accountable for anything that happened involving gun #2. ie. secondary shooter injures/kills wrong person. Thinking what could go wrong like shooter has no training of tunnel vision, auditory exclusion stress related issues etc.... what is behind the target and all that goes with it. Just try to protect the innocent and help find / take cover, get back up or help if anyone can call it in. Bide time til help arrives. Be aggressive in return fire if option exists and others are safely covered keeping #2 gun for additional firepower / rounds.

[depicts]

Of all the people I've trained with firearms, rifles, pistols and revolvers, I can count on one hand the ones that could hit a man sized sillouhette at more than ten feet the first time they tried. (OK, maybe with rifles they hit the target at ten feet.)

And why are you getting yourself in the middle in the first place. I'm telling you...all you Rambo's think getting to shoot at somoeone is fun......think again

Sit and wait in ambush seems the smart way to me btw, as someone mentioned.

[dxkj21]

If you did... more than likely you would be adding more Sh!$@ to the Fan and turning the fan up from low to high :)

[Horsesense]

If the commotion was from a gang of looters/ invading chinamen etc., sure, I would give him a gun.

I think a person with average, and even below average, intelligence and life experience could understand the situation and what they needed to do. Just take off the safety and say “it’s ready to shoot, just point it at the BG, pull the trigger, make sure that you don’t shoot me”…. But I’m not sure what to do…” Have you ever played Duck Hunt on Nintendo? You’re good to go!”

If it were something less urgent, I would not give over the gun. Desperate situations call for desperate measures, ordinary situations call for ordinary measures.


I can picture a mall- ninja refusing to loan out an extra gun, as the zombies kick in the door…. “what loan you, an untrained peon, a GUN? Boy, this is a Glock 22.. it’s the 42nd most powerfull handgun in the world….”

[TMM]

well, if i *heard* shots, i'd just call 911.

if i/we was/were in trouble, i'd arm only myself, but:
if someone who i know can use the gun,basically someone i know that can use the gun and has the mindset to kill, then i'd give them the BUG.

~TMM

[junyo]

In general, I would not depend on an untrained person to cover my back, and even statically posting them with instructions to cover my retreat is debateable. If I armed them at all, it would be something like, "Hide here, keep your head down, and this is for _IF_ the bad guys find you."Bingo.

[stevelyn]

Nope. No way! Anyone who knows me personally has heard me (more than once) stress the importance of being prepared.
If you happen to be caught with your dingus hangin' out when the SHTF you obviously didn't think it was that important.
So too FN bad, you're on your own.