[GhostRider66]

Last weekend, I decided to try a new range in the area and took the long drive out. I was initially impressed with the range as it was very, very neat, clean and well organized and despite the steep $15\person range fee.

Upon arriving at the pistol range, I noticed some signs stating "No speed shooting" in large bold letters. There were three of us shooting in three seperate stalls and after about 15 minutes or so the range master guy comes walking over from the rifle range. He stopped us and gave us a short but rather curt lecture about 'speed shooting' saying that a) the three second rule means just that, b) their insurance didn't allow for any deviation from this rule and c) recently a boy had been killed because of 'speed shooting' over in Dallas.

Mind you, I had been shooting quickly (approximately one shot per second for one magazine) but hardly as fast as what I have seen and would consider 'speed shooting'. In any case, I really couldn't argue with points a and b above (their range, their rules) but point c really bugged me. I can't really imagine a scenario where anyone could be killed and the culprit would be deemed to be the 'speed shooting' providing all of the other basic rules were followed. My point being, all things being equal, somebody must've really screwed up badly in some way but to blame it on 'speed shooting' seems a bit rediculous. Am I way off base here?:confused:

[R.H. Lee]

I don't know. The control freaks seem to be taking over the world. We recently got a new RO at our range and the first thing he did was to ban shooting at golfballs and clays on the berms. Claims it's 'dangerous'. :rolleyes:

[Valkman]

We shoot full auto at our range so I guess we don't have that rule. :D

That would suck.

[orangeninja]

Which range in Ft. Worth? For 15 bucks I can think of a lot of ranges you can go to and let 'er rip. I normally go to the Shooters Gallery.

[FAT PAT]

I've been to a few ranges where the three second rule is in effect.i prefer going to my in-laws out in the country to do most of my shooting.

[adaman04]

That's kind of crazy on one hand, but on the other I know I have been shooting my bolt guns and actually trying to hit something and had a guy next to me dumping 30 rounders out of his AR. Don't get me wrong I like to empty some mags every once in a while. :D

[Darth Ruger]

Where I used to live (CA), most ranges didn't allow it. Or rather, their insurance wouldn't allow it. One explanation I got (at an indoor pistol range) was that if someone tried rapid fire and the muzzle climbed to high, a bullet could hit the clamp thing above the lane that holds the paper target, and the bullet could bounce back and hit them. Maybe something like that is what killed that one person mentioned above. :confused:

Where I live now, the indoor pistol range allows rapid fire, empty the whole magazine as fast as you want, all day long, as long as you can control it. On the other hand, the outdoor range where I shoot rifles won't even allow more than one round in the magazine. All semi-auto rifles have to be fired single-shot. No point in even bringing your magazines with you.

[GhostRider66]

Rock Creek Range LP
8137 FM 1902
Joshua, TX 76058

I wound up not being happy with the range overall. At the rifle range, you have to shoot through a large concrete tube. The reverb was horrible.:scrutiny:

[R.H. Lee]

At the rifle range, you have to shoot through a large concrete tube. The reverb was horrible There's a solution without a problem. Guess you can't be too careful. :scrutiny:

[Kurush]

For some reason I'm picturing George Soros being on the board of this insurance company :scrutiny: :fire:

[Geno]

Anytime insurance companies get involved, policies become screwed up. If they had their way, we'd all have to fire blanks only.

Doc2005

[R.H. Lee]

Anytime insurance companies get involved, policies become screwed up. If they had their way, we'd all have to fire blanks only.
Primers only please, no powder; too loud; might lead to hearing losses.

[RRTX]

That's another one of those ranges that is more concerned with trap shooters and deer hunters than anything else just like Alpine.

[Standing Wolf]

Where I used to live (CA), most ranges didn't allow it. Or rather, their insurance wouldn't allow it.

I keep reading about these mysterious insurance companies, but nobody ever posts their names and addresses, still less quotes from policies.

I think they're a myth.

[Sir Aardvark]

Our "Speed Shooting" rules at the local range means 1 shot per second.

[TrafficMan]

Our "Speed Shooting" rules at the local range means 1 shot per second.


i would assume you are refering to Angeles Range. yup, 1 shot per second...but they do allow you to double tap.

[1911user]

I was at an indoor range about 15 years ago. There were only 3 out of 10 shooting lanes being used. In the middle, a guy started shooting a 45 Auto chambered Revolver. It looked like something from WW1 (1917 model?). He didn't hit the target slow fire so he tried rapid fire. :eek: The first shot was close to the target frame. The 2nd and 3rd shot made nice holes in the ceiling. The 4th or 5th shot (maybe both) took out the florescent light fixture that was at least a 45 degree angle up from the target and only 3-4 yards in front on him. He fired the 6th shot as the light fixture components were falling in front of him........ I have no clue where it went. He quickly packed up and left without a word to anyone.

I hate the slow fire only rule, but can sort of see the range having such a rule due to idiots as described above. I shoot at an outdoor range with no speed restrictions and usually have the place to myself.

[Lupinus]

the range I went to the other day had no such warnings agianst rapid fire but they did have a rule for no head shots. The stop or whatever its called in the back is one of those steel ones thats on and angle and breaks the bullet up and if you shoot high enough for a head shot it breaks up but doesnt always go where its suppsoed to and can send fragments back.

[jefnvk]

Simple soultion: Don't go there anymore.

They probably aren't going to risk losing their insurance because you want to shoot fast.

[magsnubby]

In the middle, a guy started shooting a 45 Auto chambered Revolver. It looked like something from WW1 (1917 model?). He didn't hit the target slow fire so he tried rapid fire. :eek: The first shot was close to the target frame. The 2nd and 3rd shot made nice holes in the ceiling. The 4th or 5th shot (maybe both) took out the florescent light fixture that was at least a 45 degree angle up from the target and only 3-4 yards in front on him. He fired the 6th shot as the light fixture components were falling in front of him........

And that is why some ranges don't allow rapid fire. It's just easier for them to blame it on their insurance companies.

Out of the three ranges i frequent, none have rules against rapid fire. Basically the only restrictions are no tracers and use the range target frames only. And i can see their point. To many people bring things like soda cans, etc. and leave them for the range crew to clean up. All it takes is a few slobs to ruin it for everyone else.

[gwalchmai]

OK at my range

[Starter52]

One shot every three second is over-regulation, IMO

I would go with one shot per second, as Aardvark said. That is not excessive. With a 10/22 it is downright tame.

[Jim101]

Alduro,

Where is Shooters Gallery? I have been shooting at Quail Creek, same rule, 1 every 3 seconds...

Thanks,

Jim

[deadin]

One in three makes it really hard to practice the rapid fire string for Bullseye
(5 in 10) which is quite tame compared to some of the other disciplines.
As long as you can keep them on the paper, I don't see where there would be a problem. However if you can't keep them on target you should be slowing down anyway.

Dean

[Nando Aqui]

At the Busch Wildlife, and at the Jay Henges, both excellent ranges in the St. Louis area (20 position to 100 yards, covered, $3/hr per booth - not per person - and they supply targets, ear and eye protection), the rule is three seconds between shots. It is a pain not being able to practice for IDPA, but I understand it, and live with it.

At the St. Louis Benchrest Club, in Wright City, the rule is two seconds between shots where the backup berm is beyond 25 yards. Not a bad rule, and members 'police' themselves - and rather well, I may add. OK to shoot faster at the closer distances.

[Zaire]

I wound up not being happy with the range overall. At the rifle range, you have to shoot through a large concrete tube. The reverb was horrible.:scrutiny:[/QUOTE]


Jeez, I know what you mean. The range I go to in Springfield IL you can shoot as fast as you want, as long as you can control it. The rifle rage is downstairs and you also have to shoot through a concrete tube. After I sighted my Vepr in with 17 rounds, I was DONE!

[Lupinus]

excuse my ignorance

but that the hell does shooting through a concreat tube accomplish other then aparently being extreamly annoying?

[ssr]

I belong to several ranges and they each have their positives and negatives. At least they are a range and you can shoot.

I am starting to give ranges some slack and appreciate what good each may have. The rules each range may have may not be what they desire either, but they have due to circumstances. One good range (used to be) I belong to has been devastated by a "bullet getting out". The rifle, plinking, pistol ranges were all shut down for a while. All except the shotgun and archery ranges. It is all still not open but they are trying to get it going, but the rifle range is kind of screwed, and it was nice.

My point being, each range has to do what they can in their unique situation, to survive. Now I appreciate the positives and cut them a little slack, and therefore I just belong to many different ranges.

[RRTX]

Alduro,

Where is Shooters Gallery? I have been shooting at Quail Creek, same rule, 1 every 3 seconds...

Thanks,

Jim

It's at 820 and Lancaster, right next to a gun store called Winchester Gallery.

[AmYisraelChai]

Folks, the Insurance reason is bogus. It is a way of masking an unpopular choice the OWNER has made. While I really dont know why some ranges make that choice on the pistol range,(Unless it is a real low berm) I SURE understand why they do not want any rapid fire on the Rifle ranges. It is just a simple fact that almost every one will walk their fire right over a berm at 100 or better yards with rapid fire. 99% of people say "Not me, I would not do that, I have mad skillz"...or something to that effect. Yet 99% of people will walk over the berm. Perhaps you are the 1%. Just keep in mind that at a civilian range, their are two types of people: Green Horns and Green Berets. Since we dont know who is who(Regardless of the claims made), to be on the safe side it is always wise to assume Green Horn. I have witnessed more than one gun range commando with all kinds of "Cred" put rounds over a high berm at 50 yards

Signed

Insured Class III range. Where you can fire as fast as you want with whatever you want as long as you want....Just not on the rifle range. If we owned the 5 miles past the berms, you could have at it.

[bogie]

It's because large holes in the range roof really suck.

Shoot. Practice. And, very slowly, shoot faster. With accuracy and control. And then, student, you shall achieve the path to the perfect pie plate.

[bogie]

Hey 'Nando... Ever notice all those holes in the overhead plywood at the Henges and Busch?

Versus one day I was running some fast mags at BRRC, and Scott pulls up on his four wheeler, and seemed sorta astonished that it was me... I'm normally a rifle kinda guy...

[Gunpacker]

Rapid fire is not a problem for SOME people. On the other hand there are idiots like the guy I saw shooting at a great range that was under attack by folks in the surrounding area complaining about rounds leaving the range. Now I thought "no way, those folks are just making that up. The berms are high, and no one even a bad shot are going to shoot over them." Then one day I saw a guy with a (probably new) AR, unload as fast as he could pull the trigger. I saw the rounds walk up the berm and then over. I shouted at the guy and he stopped. I then proceeded to tell him of the problem and why he should show some common sense. He was pissed at me, but who cares, I was way more pissed at him. To lose a range entirely because of idiots is the possible outcome, and it infringes on all that want to use the range.
Additionally, the berm had been built up even higher than earlier, and that was no defense against this guy.
How is a RO going to separate the good guys from the idiots. What we get is a sweeping defense against idiots that restricts us all.

[AmYisraelChai]

To lose a range entirely because of idiots is the possible outcome, and it infringes on all that want to use the range.........

.........How is a RO going to separate the good guys from the idiots. What we get is a sweeping defense against idiots that restricts us all.


Yep, that is just the thing. Have to set the rules to the lowest common denominator. Second, Every Bullet has a Lawyer attatched to it. It only takes one round in the wrong place to get a range shut down. Every round that does what it is supposed to kills that Lawyer. Whenever it doesnt do what it is supposed to, it unleashes that Lawyer. Help kill Lawyers and place your rounds in the right spot.

[orangeninja]

What RRTX said.

[poe_9999]

I can't really imagine a scenario where anyone could be killed and the culprit would be deemed to be the 'speed shooting' providing all of the other basic rules were followed.

Here is an interesting story. The owner of a small gun shop takes a couple of his friends out to shoot his 44 mag ruger (revolver). They are shooting hand loads. The storeowner’s friend fired a few rounds off, with the second to last round being a squib load. The force of the primer was not enough to propel the bullet out of the barrel. The storeowner noticed the mild report from the squib load but didn’t have time to act before his friend pulled the trigger again. The last round blew the gun into several pieces. The cylinder split into multiple pieces. The top strap completely broke off and hit a somewhat nearby windshield. They are lucky no one got hurt. I took a look at the blown up gun and broken windshield. If the top strap had hit someone in the head it probably would have killed them.

[Combat-wombat]

I have heard, but can not confirm, a story where a guy was rapid-firing a SKS, to the point where it became extremely hot... the guy set the SKS down, and went in front of the bench to get his target, and was shot in the back, because the gun was loaded and so hot that it ignited the round. Quite possibly BS, but I'm just putting it out there.

[Nando Aqui]

Bogie,
No, I'll look next time. But I have noticed the holes through all the structure members out to the 25 yard line (or is it to the 50?), both the vertical posts as well as the horizontal beams - even the top ones! No berm can be that high.

I have seen the holes through the roof(s) at BRRC, and have listened to some of Scott's 'choice' stories.

Alex

[bogie]

I am SO tempted to sometime take one of my bench setups over to Busch... And fire 5 rounds in under 15 seconds, out of a single-shot rifle, with 'em all touching... May not be a little group (since they don't allow wind flags there, etc., etc.), but it'll sure mess with the range guys... Who last time I was there playing with an accurate rifle had a REAL problem with me having a bore guide in the rifle during the every flippin' 10-15 minutes cease fire so that bubba could wander down and wonder why he didn't have any rounds on his target, and why I was shooting at all those little targets, with just a little hole in each...

Then there are the folks who think that Busch is a 200 yard range (yup, I've run into those too...).

About the only range that I've seen that's pretty near 100% "safe" is KCR... The "holler" that it's in will stop darn near anything, plus I understand that it backs up to an impact area...

[Jhorn]

I hadn't heard about anyone getting shot at a range in Dallas, is it true?

[Jim101]

News to me.........

Jim

[GhostRider66]

excuse my ignorance

but that the hell does shooting through a concreat tube accomplish other then aparently being extreamly annoying?

The tubes are aligned in such a way that one cannot shoot over the berm at all. Another issue was that the target areas were not properly aligned with the shooting stations as they were numbered. Upon returning to the shooting station my wife had to shoot along the left edge of the tube to be able see and hit her targets. She found that extremely unnerving and annoying. I'm thinking of rejoining the Parker County Sports Club. Long drive but I did enjoy their range. I will probably give Shooter's Gallery a try as well.

[TrafficMan]

I have heard, but can not confirm, a story where a guy was rapid-firing a SKS, to the point where it became extremely hot... the guy set the SKS down, and went in front of the bench to get his target, and was shot in the back, because the gun was loaded and so hot that it ignited the round. Quite possibly BS, but I'm just putting it out there.


i find it hard to believe, espescially if it was a public range. 1st Rule of thumb is unloading the firearm before going down range.

[Darth Ruger]

I SURE understand why they do not want any rapid fire on the Rifle ranges. It is just a simple fact that almost every one will walk their fire right over a berm at 100 or better yards with rapid fire.
At my local rifle range, there are a series of wooden beams above and several yards forward of the firing line. They are arranged in such a way that when shooting from the bench, if a bullet is fired at a high enough trajectory that would make it go over the berm, it will hit one of the wooden beams and be stopped.

But they still don't allow more than one round in the magazine.

[Smurfslayer]

Simple soultion: Don't go there anymore

+1

[Gillster]

"I hadn't heard about anyone getting shot at a range in Dallas, is it true?"

It wasn't a "a few years ago" but an IPSC club was shooting at the Dallas Pistol Club in Carrolton and shooting (supposedly) on an unapproved bay. A round bounced off of (I think) a railroad tie and then hit the cross beam of the roof of the air rifle range and ended up hitting a young boy in the head, killing him. The boys father was one of the competitors and one of the range officers that day. I used to shoot steel there but actually learned the )now forgotten) details from watching the story covered on the Discovery Channel.

[Colt]

My local indoor range did not allow rapid fire. The owner's reasoning was that if there was a problem on the range, and the RO wanted to call an immediate cease fire, it would be difficult to do so effectively with people unloading full magazines. That made sense to me, but I said that practicing double-taps is a part of training for allot of shooters.

He thought about it for a while and then changed the policy to be "no more than 2 shots in rapid succession." It won't prevent the squib problem mentioned above (which I feel is the shooter's responsibility to deal with), but I it seems like a reasonable compromise.

[Pilot]

The indoor pistol range I have been frequenting has also gotten more strict about rapid fire. I just bought a new semi-auto and wanted to test if for reliablility when firing quickly. I was still taking time to aim between shots, but emptied a mag into the center of my target. One of the employees at the range came in an told me no rapid fire. I said, no problem, but he was expecting an argument, so he just stood there and looked at me. I again said, no problem, I will only slow fire and he left. After the range session, I explained that I was testing a brand new gun for function. He really didn't respond.

I agree, unaimed rapid fire can be dangerous, but aimed rapid fire is different. I think they're becoming control freaks, so I am going to a different range from now on.

[owsi26]

How does one properly prepare themselves for a self-defense situation when allowed only one shot every three seconds? I would want to practice rapid-fire shooting with a magazine change.

[Dorian]

I do not patronize ranges with this rule.

[Pietro Beretta]

*Final Answer, His Range, His Rules. PERIOD.

Dont like it go somewhere else, or build your own range. (Good Luck)

I know, thats not what you want to hear, but that, in the end, is how it is.


My local range does not allow "Rapid Fire" either. At this range that means dont try to fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. You can shoot 1 round a second, thats ok. OR really quick double taps, and a pause inbetween the next double tap.

[ScottsGT]

the range I went to the other day had no such warnings agianst rapid fire but they did have a rule for no head shots. The stop or whatever its called in the back is one of those steel ones thats on and angle and breaks the bullet up and if you shoot high enough for a head shot it breaks up but doesnt always go where its suppsoed to and can send fragments back.


Simple, hand the target upside down :D