Remington 700 Accurizing


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deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 09:20 AM
Hello guys, This is my first post here at THR. I look forward to getting to know you and to gain knowledge from all of you experienced shooters.

The gun that I am working on right now is, you guessed it, a Rem 700. It's a PSS model in 300 Rem Ultra Mag. I have decided to install a muzzle brake on this weapon for obvious reasons...starts to sting a little after a couple of boxes. I have decided to go with Armalite's AR-30 Muzzle brake. Anyone with experience know whether or not this will be a good choice? Also as far as accurizing goes I have not done anything to this gun yet. What would you guys suggest as being some of the most important things to do to start with?

Thanks for your help.

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dakotasin
October 27, 2005, 10:55 AM
every remington i own has responded very well to floating then bedding. after that, before that, whatever, tune the trigger. use a stout bedding material - steel bed or whatever. pillars are a good idea, too.

is the gun a j-lock model? how about the recoil pad (a brake is a very last resort for me).

avoid a rifle basix trigger. avoid the tubbs firing pin unless you are truly going to be shooting at or beyond 1000 yards.

lap your scope rings in, bed the base to the receiver, and make sure your scope and mounts are high quality units. should be good to go. all told, you'll need to invest an hour of your time and around $20...

USSR
October 27, 2005, 11:40 AM
Hello guys, This is my first post here at THR. I look forward to getting to know you and to gain knowledge from all of you experienced shooters.

The gun that I am working on right now is, you guessed it, a Rem 700. It's a PSS model in 300 Rem Ultra Mag. I have decided to install a muzzle brake on this weapon for obvious reasons...starts to sting a little after a couple of boxes. I have decided to go with Armalite's AR-30 Muzzle brake. Anyone with experience know whether or not this will be a good choice? Also as far as accurizing goes I have not done anything to this gun yet. What would you guys suggest as being some of the most important things to do to start with?

Thanks for your help.

deadly,

One thing you have to understand is, spending money on the Remington factory barrel (by adding a muzzle break) is a waste of money. The barrel costs Remington less than $20 to produce, and it will be shot-out by the time you reach the 1,000 mark. After you have shot the barrel out, you can have it rebarreled and the action trued by a good smith who can then add a muzzle break to it. Since this is a PSS model, it will not have the J-Lock on it. At this point, I would simply recommend that you have the trigger adjusted/lightened, learn to shoot it, and if you don't have a reloading setup, get one. Reloading for the 300 RUM will do several things for you. First, it will allow you to produce ammo for less cost than factory ammo, thereby allowing you to shoot more. Second, It will allow you to produce ammo that will be more accurate than factory ammo. And lastly, it will allow you to download (as in use less powder) ammo so that you don't feel the "sting" quite so much. Good luck.

Don

deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 11:44 AM
Thanks Dakota, As far as the trigger goes, I still have the stock one in and I am still waiting on CanJar to get the steel in to make the 700 triggers. I have been on the waiting list now for 8 months. I hear that this will be a great set trigger. Anyone with knowledge on these?? Also for the optics I have the leupold Mk4 straight 16X, Badger 20MOA base and Leupold MK4 Rings. I believe that we are ok on the optics setup. Heres the problem, I know nothing about accurizing, so when you say to bed it I know what your talking about but dont know how or where to bed it. also what bedding material is suggested? When you say to lap something what are you talking about? sorry for my ignorance but everyone has to learn somehow.

Thanks guys.

deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 11:51 AM
I do reload as well. One reason that I like to reload though is not to download to decrease the sting. On the contrary I actually shoot the highest pressure loads I can with the optimum bullet weight to achieve the Ballistic Coefficient that I am going for. I am planning on having Williamson Precision Gunsmith to install this break for me. I hear they are the best in town. Should I wait and shoot this one out first??? :confused: You say that it will be shot out in only 1000 rounds or so? Why is that? I figured that this barrell would last thousands of rounds.

Thanks for the input
Much appreciated

USSR
October 27, 2005, 12:37 PM
Should I wait and shoot this one out first??? :confused: You say that it will be shot out in only 1000 rounds or so? Why is that? I figured that this barrell would last thousands of rounds.

Thanks for the input
Much appreciated

deadly,

As for why your barrel will last for barely 1,000 rounds, just look at the ballistics of the 300 RUM:eek: Barrel life is the price you pay for pushing heavy bullets at high velocity. You don't get something for nothing.;)

Don

deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 12:46 PM
deadly,

As for why your barrel will last for barely 1,000 rounds, just look at the ballistics of the 300 RUM:eek: Barrel life is the price you pay for pushing heavy bullets at high velocity. You don't get something for nothing.;)

Don


Good Point Don, Thanks for the input. I have never bought a barrel before, How much should I be looking to spend for This same barrel? Should I go with a better barrel that the factory PSS Barrel?

USSR
October 27, 2005, 12:54 PM
Heres the problem, I know nothing about accurizing...

Okay, while there may be some more than I am listing here, here are some of the biggies:

High Quality barrel chambered by a high quality smith - You get neither with a factory barrel.
Trued Receiver - Close enough is the spec's the factory uses, while a good smith will make everything square and true.
Pillar Bedded Stock - Not done on factory rifle stocks, but having this done by a smith allows you to torque your receiver bolts and improves accuracy.
Good Trigger - Most factory triggers can be adjusted (although the manufacturer say don't do it) by a smith to a light, crisp letoff.

Also, since your scope is the interface between you and your rifle, a high quality scope, base, and rings go a long way towards having an accurate rifle.

Don

USSR
October 27, 2005, 01:04 PM
I have never bought a barrel before, How much should I be looking to spend for This same barrel? Should I go with a better barrel that the factory PSS Barrel?

A high quality SS barrel by this country's best barrelmakers will cost you $275-350, depending upon options. Figure about $300 to have the barrel chambered and action trued, and you are looking at about $650. Bedding will run about $100-150. Having a smith adjust your trigger, perhaps $30. Yeah, it get's expensive, that's why I won't have a barrel-burner like the 300 RUM;)

Don

Henry Bowman
October 27, 2005, 01:23 PM
A high quality SS barrel by this country's best barrelmakers Names please.

I have a similar set-up chambered in .30-'06. It has a tapered barrel and I know I will want a heavy or fluted one. As I understand it, the pressures are very similar to that of a .308. I've not yet done any accurizing. Should I consider replacing the barrel on this one later, or better to just sell and buy one with the barrel I want?

BusMaster007
October 27, 2005, 01:25 PM
If the rifle is a PSS, it's a POLICE model. I've got one in .308.
The stock is made by H-S Precision and has a full-length BED already in it.

Before you dump a lot of $$$ on modifications, try a few simpler things first.

1. Get the Remington 'R3' buttstock pad, made by Sims Vibration Labs, or the SVL model to fit the PSS buttstock dimensions. It should tame quite a bit of the recoil.

2. Have a knowledgable gunsmith adjust your factory trigger. It can be made to behave nicely...

3. Look into the JP Enterprises muzzle brake, called the Recoil Eliminator. It's probably less to buy and install than the big unit for the ArmaLite guns.

All the other stuff will cost you BIG BUCK$.
The stuff I mentioned won't kill your wallet nor will it take very long to have done.

Good Luck!:D

deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 01:35 PM
That is what I thought! The alluminum block that the receiver sits on is the bed? Great! Instead of getting the trigger work done I am getting a CanJar trigger. Should be able to set it to a fraction of an ounce. :what:

BusMaster007
October 27, 2005, 01:36 PM
Some additional information you might find helpful ---

Remington Law Enforcement page:
http://www.remingtonle.com/index.htm

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700p.htm

http://www.remingtonle.com/images/rifles/700p2.jpg
The standard Model 700P features an H-S Precision® composite stock reinforced with Du Pont Kevlar and fiberglass.
They'll stay dimensionally stable in any weather and under the worst tactical situations.
The stock is laid up around an aircraft-grade aluminum bedding block that runs up the entire length of the receiver.
It has a textured, black, non-reflective finish and comes with sling swivel studs.

And, from the FAQ page:
Q: What is the difference between the metal finish on the sporting goods guns and police guns?

A: A standard "blue" finish is offered in both lines, however, the "matte" finish on the sporting goods guns is a bead blast bluing.
The "matte" finish on the police guns is a parkerization process. Parkerization is 60% more durable than bead blast bluing.

:)

deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 01:41 PM
3. Look into the JP Enterprises muzzle brake, called the Recoil Eliminator. It's probably less to buy and install than the big unit for the ArmaLite guns.


Good Luck!:D

I'll be honest with you guys, The reason why I want AR-30 brake is: first because its really effective...but most importantly, It will look wicked. :fire: . to each his own in this matter i guess:cool:

USSR
October 27, 2005, 02:14 PM
Names please.

I have a similar set-up chambered in .30-'06. It has a tapered barrel and I know I will want a heavy or fluted one. As I understand it, the pressures are very similar to that of a .308. I've not yet done any accurizing. Should I consider replacing the barrel on this one later, or better to just sell and buy one with the barrel I want?

Henry,

I'm partial to cut-rifled barrels, so the ones I'd recommend are Krieger, Obermeyer, and Mike Rock. Other high quality barrelmakers are Schneider, Broughton, Lilja, PAC-NOR, and Lothar Walther. Some barrelmakers are also gunsmiths (like Krieger) and will true your receiver, and chamber and install your barrel, while others will only provide you with the barrel. Picking the gunsmith to do your work if probably the crucial part of the whole process. Gunsmiths I would recommend are George Gardner at G.A. Precision, Terry Cross of KMW, and Jack Krieger of Krieger. Yes, pressures are similar (62k psi for .308, 60k psi for .30-06), but factory .30-06 is seriously downloaded due to some weak action designs still out there. If you want a quality, heavy contour barrel on a .30-06, the only way you will get it is to have it put on yourself. While the .30-06 makes a fine long-range Tactical/Target Rifle, it is strictly a build-your-own and handloading proposition.

Don

Henry Bowman
October 27, 2005, 02:30 PM
Thanks. I got the original basic rifle for a song. So I'll just build on its receiver.

I have a gunsmith friend who does special work for SF and other military snipers. I trust him to do the work. You can see some of his stuff at http://www.mccannindustries.com, especially the MIRS scope mount.

USSR
October 27, 2005, 02:45 PM
Good luck, Henry. And if you want some load info once you get it built, just let me know.

Don

halvey
October 27, 2005, 03:20 PM
A recoil pad and lightened trigger pull done by a smith should be less than $100. Start there first.

Honestly, I'd put the money into ammo and range time before trying to do anything other than above.

And even before you do that, get a good reloading setup.

deadly50bmg
October 27, 2005, 04:20 PM
And even before you do that, get a good reloading setup.

By a good reloading setup what exactaly do you mean? I have a Lee press right now??? any reccomendations on a good book on precision reloading?

ALS
October 27, 2005, 04:29 PM
First the PSS is a good gun right out of the box.
Get the gun bedded by someone who knows how to do it right. There are a lot of amateurs out there that think they know how to do it right.
Get the trigger redone and set and no lighter than 3.5 to 3.75 lbs. There is nothing wrong with a Remington trigger and once redone you will love the feel. Have a Badger Ordnance trigger guard installed. The Aluminum factory unit is junk at best. Put on a high quality one piece scope mount such as
http://ironbrigadearmory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=37
and good set of rings with a quality scope such as a Leupold or Nightforce.

Quality parts and work does not come cheap. If you get it done right the first time you will far happier than going cheap.

As far as barrels go have fun with the factory supplied barrel. After 1000-1200 rounds or so go with a Hart, Shilen, Lilja, Krieger to name a few good barrel makers.

Both my Remington .308 tacticals have Hart 26 inch Fluted SS barrels on them. Non Fluted are suppose to be a little more accurate but I like the look of the fluted barrel better. Both guns are far more accurate than I can shoot them so I'll never be able to tell the difference.

As far as a good reloading book: I'm real happly with Handloading For Competition by Glen D. Zedike.
I got the book from Sinclair International. http://www.sinclairintl.com/index.html

redneck2
October 27, 2005, 04:41 PM
Honestly, I'd put the money into ammo and range time before trying to do anything other than above.

FWIW...before I got too crazy doing a lot of stuff I'd shoot it. I just sighted in my Rem 700 .223 lightweight this past week-end. Off a not-so-steady bench I got some 3/4" 3 shot groups. Some factory barrels are good, some bad. One way to find out.

Maybe it'll shoot .5", maybe 2.5". Won't know 'til you try. I got the adjustment instructions for Remington triggers off one of the sniper websites. Pretty easy to do and takes maybe 10-15 minutes.

Look at the "factory rifles" forum at http:www.benchrestcentral.com. You'll find out all you want to know.

Charles S
October 27, 2005, 06:48 PM
In a letter I recently answered a question that was very similar to yours; here is the letter.

(Name removed)

I do highly recommend the Remington 700. I would say mine is my favorite rifle. If you are interested in making your Remington 700 a shooter I would recommend customization in steps. I recommend this method because it will save you money and time.

First pick the Remington 700 you like and the one that fits your perceived needs best.

I personally think the new 700 CDL stock fits me very well and it is also a very attractive rifle.

If you prefer a Monte Carlo stock go for the BDL.

Stainless has obvious advantages.

If you prefer a target rifle Remington has several exellent models.

The one I really like right now it the 700 Mountain rifle. If you are going to carry the rifle a lot consider this option.

The first accessory to purchase is good optics and good bases and rings. I highly recommend that you spend as much money as you can afford on the Scope. In my opinion the cheapest decent scope available is the Leupold VX II if you can swing it the VX III is better, consider good rings and bases like Leupold, Warne ext.

Customization:

Start with a trigger job with the trigger set as light as you are comfortable with. No more that 3.3 pounds (1500 grams). Consider having the crown re-cut. This is inexpensive and generally will help the rifle shoot better.

Shoot the rifle, most Remington rifles will shoot quite well with only this work. Try several different loads.

If you require more accuracy then have the action bedded and the barrel free floated about 80/1000.

This will generally provide a rifle capable of shooting .750 inch center to center 5 shot groups. If more accuracy than that is required be prepared to spend more money.

I highly recommend a good sling and a good lock able hard case.

First spend money on optics and the trigger job, then ammo before you decide to spend any additional money on customizing the rifle.

Good luck,

Let me know if you need any additional information. I hope this helps.

Charles

Beethoven
October 27, 2005, 07:30 PM
I've read that you shouldn't shoot more than 20 rounds or so (1 box) per session if your objective is accuracy, especially with heavier calibers.

If you are really doing things right and taking your time, it should take you close to an hour to shoot those 20 rounds (including cease-fire times, so maybe less on an open range) and after that much recoil and time, you aren't performing optimally anymore.

Just something I read.....

USSR
October 27, 2005, 08:02 PM
I've read that you shouldn't shoot more than 20 rounds or so (1 box) per session if your objective is accuracy, especially with heavier calibers.


In F Class competition, we have to shoot 20 rounds + sighters (usually 5-10 rounds) within 30 minutes. Aside from the pure accuracy factor, this is one of the biggest benefits of shooting a stick with a custom barrel. A high quality barrel by the better barrelmakers will maintain their accuracy for far longer than a factory barrel, which will fill with copper sooner and cause accuracy to go south.

Don

KC&97TA
October 28, 2005, 05:32 AM
Huh? I was told all that needed to be done to a .308 700 PSS was a trigger job (on the rem trigger), good optics, harris pod, federal match ammo and some time behind the but stock, to achive sub-MOA out to 1000 yards.

Don't get wrapped up in wanting to modify things right away, trigger job, a few hundred rounds and then evaluate the situation. Most rifles will out shoot the guy behind the stock, alot of guys toss money into rifles, were they just needed more patience and practice.

only1asterisk
October 28, 2005, 05:54 AM
The only modification I'd make on a box stock 700 PSS is to have the trigger worked. Chances are your rifle is fairly accurate already. What kind of groups are you getting?

If the recoil is bothering you, the factory recoil pad would go first, then I'd download to 300 Win Mag levels and/or add a bit of weight.


David

deadly50bmg
October 28, 2005, 09:28 AM
The only modification I'd make on a box stock 700 PSS is to have the trigger worked. Chances are your rifle is fairly accurate already. What kind of groups are you getting?

If the recoil is bothering you, the factory recoil pad would go first, then I'd download to 300 Win Mag levels and/or add a bit of weight.


David

In reference to your question on the groups that I am getting; right now I am maintaining MOA out to 800 meters. The gun is fairly heavy with the long heavy barrel, therefore the recoil is manageable, but like you guys said practice makes perfect. Its manageable to an extent. It really starts to pound you when your finishing off your second box. Plus Like I said earlier, Half of it is the looks of the AR-30 brake, and its excellent functionality. As far as 40 rounds being enough in one sitting...I beg to differ, I have gone through 300+ rounds in one day with a .308. I personally believe that if you continue to clean your barrel every couple of boxes or so and give it some cooling periods then it should be just fine. I've never had any problems. Some of us go to the range and shoot for an hour or two and thats long enough. I go to the ranch and shoot from dusk till dawn therefore 40 bullets just doesn't cut it.

halvey
October 28, 2005, 09:41 AM
By a good reloading setup what exactaly do you mean? I have a Lee press right now??? any reccomendations on a good book on precision reloading?
Your Lee will be fine for decapping your brass. After that, looks into a Rockchucker or I got the Hornady LNL single stage. I used to load rifle ammo on my Dillon, but there's too much float in the shellplate and toolhead. Get great dies. I use the Redding competition's. There are custom dies that are better, but those shine with custom chambers, not factory ones like on the PSS or the 700's I use. Good brass (Lapua, Winchester are good, there are others.) Don't skimp here. My groups shrank a LOT using the above.

There's a book called Handloading for Competition by Glen Ziedeker. He talks from a Hi power AR standpoint, but it's a great book for bolt action shooters like you and me.

Bedding may or may not help of the PSS.

I'd put the money into that book and the reloading setup and trigger job first. If you want a cool brake and have the $$, go for it. Then, shoot the barrel out, and get a new one. That's my plan!!

deadly50bmg
October 28, 2005, 09:55 AM
Thanks Halvey, I couldn't have gotten a better response. By the way. As you have probably read earlier, I have a CanJar trigger on order, the waiting list just keeps getting extended. Have you heard about these. I know a lot of people out there don't either understand or agree on getting a trigger that sets to a fraction of an ounce but I'm sure you do. Takes a lot of the human error out of the equasion, plus its damn near impossible to anticipate recoil considering you don't even know your finger is on the trigger.

dakotasin
October 28, 2005, 11:38 AM
my preference is about 2 ounces... contrary to popular belief, if you shoot your rifle enough, you will know when/how it will recoil (anticipate it). i like to be able to know when the trigger will break because i want to be sure i am on target.

the folks who don't want to anticipate recoil are typically the ones who are either new shooters, or who are ready for a massive kick (flinch).

i like huge cases, and i like to shoot... so, shooting is mental more than physical. knowing its going to kick, but also knowing the kick, no matter how vicious, will be over in a second and usually isn't that bad helps. also knowing when i am getting fatigued and knowing my form isn't good (aka knowing when to quit) is also good.

some folks do the half ounce trigger stuff well... but, i am not one. 2 ounces for target, 1 pound for varmint, and 2.5 pounds for cold-weather, gloved hand rifles.

~z
October 28, 2005, 11:40 AM
Mr BMG, Use extreme caution with that trigger. Spend alot of time with the chamber empty, becoming firmiliar with it. I have a few set triggers and have not found a need to go any lighter than 1/4-1/2 #. And dont consider hunting with that thing, that will be a "warm weather gun" ie dont shoot it with gloves and or cold hands. The suler light triggers are just what the Dr ordered for benchrest shooting, and long range P-Dogging, but outside the target arena, they have limited use. I love a light trigger, but would not recomend something that light. $0.02
~z

deadly50bmg
October 28, 2005, 11:47 AM
~Z Thanks for your money!!

Hey you guys are right on the fact that I need to practice with this trigger, The first "Hare" trigger that I ever fired was a dangerous shot. Its a totally different world with these things.

Beethoven
October 28, 2005, 12:08 PM
In F Class competition, we have to shoot 20 rounds + sighters (usually 5-10 rounds) within 30 minutes. Aside from the pure accuracy factor, this is one of the biggest benefits of shooting a stick with a custom barrel. A high quality barrel by the better barrelmakers will maintain their accuracy for far longer than a factory barrel, which will fill with copper sooner and cause accuracy to go south.

Don


Actually, I was talking about the performance of the shooter degrading, not the performance of the equipment.

deadly50bmg
October 28, 2005, 01:39 PM
Beethoven, Are you implying that 20 rounds is as long as the average shooter will be efficient? I have stayed proficcient throughout hundreds of rounds in one sitting. I deffinitely believe in a mental break from looking down the tube, but, one shot every 3 minutes??? sounds a little scarce. I usually walk to my targets to check them after 10 shots. I will give a 5 minute break or so after 5 to let the barrel cool a little. My walk to the targets to change them and walking back clears my mind for the next 10. At this rate I would be done in about 30 minutes. Can't shoot anymore now???

only1asterisk
October 29, 2005, 02:16 AM
Deadly,

If you are shooting 9" groups at 800 yards with factory ammo you're doing very well and I wouldn't do anything to that rifle except find a handload that it liked.

David

Rockstar
October 29, 2005, 09:07 AM
. Have you heard about these. I know a lot of people out there don't either understand or agree on getting a trigger that sets to a fraction of an ounce but I'm sure you do. Takes a lot of the human error out of the equasion, plus its damn near impossible to anticipate recoil considering you don't even know your finger is on the trigger.

For some good advice on precision triggers, check in with those guys at benchrest.com. I believe you'll find all or most of them using Jewell triggers. I also don't believe you're going to find that Canjar capable of being set to "a fraction of an ounce."

You have a fine rifle. I hope you get a brake that makes your rifle "cool." Hope you shoot enough to be "up to" your rifle's capabilities. Generally, there are few of us who are as accurate as our rifles. :)

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