March 31, 2003, 04:04 PM
Today, I had an interesting conversation about fishing. As a guy in my Algebra II class told me about having hooked a fish through the eye, I told him that going to a gun range was much more non-violent than fishing, since paper targets can't be hurt. Hearing this, my Algebra teacher was like "WHAT?? that's ridiculous!" but I think I may be onto something here. What do you guys think?

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March 31, 2003, 04:13 PM
Well I hunt, fish, and shoot paper targets.

I would have to say that fishing is definetly more violent and cruel. When hunting you at least kill the animal before you feild dress it.

I have seen fileted fish still trying to swim when thrown back into the water. I guess since they don't make noise people tend not to care.

Jesse H
March 31, 2003, 04:14 PM
I wouldn't consider either past times particularly violent. Both can be relaxing.

Dave R
March 31, 2003, 04:24 PM
I don't consider catch & release fishing to be terribly cruel. I don't think the fish feel a lot of pain when hooked.

Remember, a bass mouth is made for eating LIVE CRAWFISH. And small spiney bluegills.

Your mouth is made for kissing. Big difference in sensitivity.

Ain't no catch & release hunting ;-)

Errrr, well, maybe the camera safari thing...

March 31, 2003, 04:25 PM
I'm in Alaska and quite often take a gun fishing! You never know when a bear decides to turn a fishing trip into a "hunting" trip:)

Seriously, though, your teacher's reaction is an emotional one based on the subjective opinion that guns are violent instruments in their own right. Emotion-based opinions are the hardest to change because they require a change in how one thinks. Logical arguments may not be emotionally satisfying.

Perhaps the best way to change your teacher's opinion would be to invite him out to a safe controlled range for some instruction on a nice Saturday morning. Handgun and rifle are fine, but you need to wait for a cease-fire to see if you hit the paper target where you wanted. Trapshooters are a nice crowd, the game is easy to comprehend, and when he breaks his first bird, he may develop a new emotional outlook on shooting!

Sleeping Dog
March 31, 2003, 04:25 PM
Neither one is violent. Both are relaxing.

Fishing is more work, especially if you catch anything :)

Shooting is noisier.

Your Algebra teacher is probably not really a moron, just uneducated. Take him or her to the range. "If the hole is 2" high and 3" to the right, how many clicks on a 1/4moa scope ....."


On the other hand, if you use guns to shoot the fish, that can be exciting. Gotta use armor-piercing on them steelheads.

Dave R
March 31, 2003, 04:26 PM
BTW, what do you consider a good fishin' gun?

I carry a 9mm CCW piece, just in case I run into a serial killer's campsite, or a TRULY huge brown trout...

March 31, 2003, 04:28 PM
hook a bear and shoot a fish...


Carlos Cabeza
March 31, 2003, 04:44 PM
Your Alg. II teach is probably the burger eatin' type that doesn't believe that fish have fed the world for many thousands of years and in some parts of the world still do. As far as shooting goes, no matter how innocuous you make it, some people will never grasp the level of heightened awareness and fortitude it gives an individual.

March 31, 2003, 07:05 PM
Actually- she wasn't even in the conversation when I was talking- but she stopped what she was doing to glance back and said "Did YOU just say that going to a gun range is less violent then going fishing?" looking extremely shocked. I simply said "yeah" and continued the conversation as she was saying some more non-sense.

March 31, 2003, 07:11 PM
Paper targets are just paper targets.

Hunting I like, though I haven't done it in quite some time.

I find fishing to be a complete bore, but maybe because I'm an utter failure at the sport. :p

Watching my brother use cherry bombs in the pond = priceless.

March 31, 2003, 07:21 PM
you know, i bet all those fish that are caught and released go on to become mass murdering monsters. it must totally screw up their psyche and inhibit their choice-making ability to fulfill their role in the circle of life. they probably go back and kill all their children and mutilate their spouses.
ever wonder what they do with those hooks they snap off our lines? probably go and hook other fish with them. the abused go on to abuse, right?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

you want some great fun fishing? try some dipnetting at the mouth of the kenai river. wearing a wetsuit, drifting with the current while your net is dragging the bottom of the riverbed. and if you're a short guy like me you wont catch much fish just going out as far as your chin stays above water and your feet touch ground. you gotta get further out till your head submerges and you have to swim hard for shore when you get a fish in the net.

THATS real fishing fun! your body temp adjusts and the water feels just right.

El Tejon
March 31, 2003, 07:22 PM
Yohan, what if you used to combine the two and shoot gars out of the river with a .30-'06?:D

BTW, Dave R, I used a Winchester P17 as my fishing gun. I was a hero to the raccoons.:D 280, never saw any bears, or unicorns.:rolleyes:

March 31, 2003, 08:17 PM
I just remembered- while talking about this, a guy was quick to bring up a point that "Fish have a tendency to overpopulate all areas and fishing controls the population, saving more fun" to this- I was quick to reply "yeah- but someone's gotta shoot up the stock pile of man-killer bullets on innocent paper targets plus, shooting is a lot more fun"

March 31, 2003, 09:32 PM
You could tell your algebra teacher that depending on the variable w (wind), and v (velocity), the x-intercept of the bullet could change. :D

March 31, 2003, 10:10 PM
Spacemanspiff thats the funniest thing I've read all day. :D But if you really wanna catch some fish you've gotta use 2 nets, one in each hand. :what:

Navy joe
March 31, 2003, 10:42 PM
If catch and releasing I use barbless hooks all the time. If catching to eat I whack the fish on the head with the spine of a knife as soon as caught so that it does not feel whatever suffering its primitive nerve system and pea brains allow. Fishing can be cruel, plenty of folks gaff a shark and then toss it back to die or whatever. Hunting can be cruel too, where I'm from I think it ought to be legal to shoot dog hunters for the way they treat both deer and dog. Cruelty is all in how the individual approaches it. I see neither hunting or fishing as a sport, just a undeniable drive. I try to behave morally, especially since if the Hindus are right I'll probably be that damn squirrell next time around. :D

You can fish with a gun if you know what you're doing, it's darn hard to catch a 10 point with a Shad Rap though, I think I'll stick mainly to guns.

Sure there is catch and release hunting. Take yourself and your camera/sketchpad/whatever and hit the woods. Go stalk a deer or call a turkey in or whatever and take it's picture. Don't jerk the shutter buttton. I imagine that you will find the experience very peaceful.

March 31, 2003, 10:42 PM
Isn't it dangerous to shoot guns at the water surface? :confused:

March 31, 2003, 10:58 PM
Only at shallow angles. You would get up high so you can see throught the glare and minimize refraction. At least I do when I bowfish carp;)

I love both hunting and fishing, both are violent and cause suffering. I have no moral problems with this.

Shooting at the range is no more violent than playing golf. Anyone who says differently is simply not thinking :barf:

I like to take the MKII fishing, for the ocassional snake/groundhog/squirrel(in season)/BG I might encounter, besides it is fun to throw things in and shoot them as they float by in the current. Course I could get in serious trouble since I can't carry (even possess) a handgun:fire:. Not old enough. Have to be 21.

:cuss: Ohio

April 1, 2003, 12:00 AM
In a National Geographic special about Afghanistan, there was a story about a warlord in Afghanistan that listens to heavy metal rock and roll, rides a motorcycle, who was educated and grew up in Pennsylvania. He was fishing with a hand-grenade. :uhoh:

El Tejon
April 1, 2003, 06:51 AM
Yohan, yes, it is. Rule #4.

April 1, 2003, 09:39 AM
rule 4--be sure of your target?

It can be dangerous to shoot at the water's surface under some conditions. Bullets can glance of AT SHALLOW ANGLES. I don't understand the 'shooting fish" anyway, since you can't retrieve them, but it would be a good way to reduce carp populations. I wouldn't say shoting at the water is eviil 100% of the time

April 1, 2003, 12:40 PM
I think I see your problem there... Shad-Raps are more or a "deer SNAGGING" lure...

To catch deer, you'd need to try "fly" fishing... as in tie the hook to a fly what is eating off the bait pile, and then hope the deer swollows the fly...

then again, if you can "throw line" like a REAL fly fisherman, then a salmon rod or deep-sea rod, with a brick on the end of the line might be quite effective!

April 1, 2003, 09:47 PM
Having done rather a lot of all night bank fishing in the rural south you bet your u-no-what I carry. For years it was a H&R 999. Now it's a 22 Bobcat.

I'm not convinced fish are highly enough developed to experience pain of the kind humans experience. To say that they do is to suppose human characteristics I'm not sure are really there.
But then again I do not clean fish that are obviously still alive at the time.

El Tejon
April 1, 2003, 10:26 PM
zahc, Rule #4 is be certain of your target and what's behind it. I used to climb up a tree and overhang the river. The gar would be dead and the coons would feast!:D

April 1, 2003, 10:51 PM
Try boating a live shark sometime or better yet, a giant Halibut. You just about have to shoot them prior to getting them into the boat. Still, that is a lot different that shooting at something like a turtle across a pond. You never know who might be nearby.

Good Shooting

April 1, 2003, 11:46 PM
You have to be carefull what you say in a college environment they are known NOT to be friendly to hunting, fishing, or guns.

That arena generally deems the lot of us ignorant rednecks.

Universities are havens for liberal cooks, like PETA and animal rights activists and anything they can protest.


ed dixon
April 1, 2003, 11:56 PM
Filleting a live fish and then throwing the still living remains back in the water? :banghead: :cuss:

April 2, 2003, 08:05 AM
"You have to be carefull what you say in a college environment they are known NOT to be friendly to hunting, fishing, or guns.

That arena generally deems the lot of us ignorant rednecks.

Universities are havens for liberal cooks, like PETA and animal rights activists and anything they can protest."

All the more reason to let the voice be heard. Must not be drowned out.

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